6N 2017: Ireland v England, 18 March

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IRELAND v ENGLAND
18 March 2017
KO: 17:00 GMT
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Referee: Jerome Garces (France)
Touch judges: Mathieu Raynal (France) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

Live on [BBC, RTE, DMAX, FR2, ITV (H)]

A. Head to Head

131 Played 131
47 Won 76
8 Drawn 8
76 Lost 47
1,079 Points 1,526

B. Recent Form

27 February 2016
Twickenham, London
21 – 10 to England

5 September 2015
Twickenham, London
21 – 13 to England

1 March 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
19 – 9 to Ireland

22 February 2014
Twickenham, London
13 – 10 to England

10 February 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
6 – 12 to England

17 March 2012
Twickenham, London
30 – 9 to England

C. Teams

IRELAND

Payne; Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Zebo; Sexton, Marmion; McGrath, Best (captain), Furlong; Ryan, Henderson; Stander, O'Brien, Heaslip,

Replacements: Scannell, Healy, Ryan, Toner, O'Mahony, McGrath, Jackson, Conway.

ENGLAND

Brown; Watson, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Youngs; Marler, Hartley (captain), Cole; Launchbury, Lawes; Itoje, Haskell, B Vunipola.

Replacements: George, M Vunipola, Sinckler, Wood, Hughes, Care, Te'o, Nowell.

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Anyone know what Eddie Jones' excuse will be if England lose? Its fun to guess.

You're a little bit obsessed with him. Quite sad.

Hardly, this is the Ireland England thread. Post somewhere else if it doesnt interest you.

The game does. What excuses a manager might make is a little bit childish and hardly match related.

Good thing we have you here to monitor maturity levels then Scott.

There are lots of side plots to the game, Eddie Jones clowning around is one of them.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Anyone know what Eddie Jones' excuse will be if England lose? Its fun to guess.

1. Ireland weren't playing proper rugby.
2. England aren't yet world class, but we will be by the next World Cup (a variation on the theme of "judge me by the World Cup").
3. Ireland just kicked the ball in the air. Anyone can do that.

More likely that Ireland will lose. What will Schmidt have to say, having secured his first triple turd for Ireland (losing to Scotland, Wales and England)?

funnyExiledScot wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Anyone know what Eddie Jones' excuse will be if England lose? Its fun to guess.

1. Ireland weren't playing  proper rugby.
2. England aren't yet world class, but we will be by the next World Cup (a variation on the theme of "judge me by the World Cup").
3. Ireland just kicked the ball in the air. Anyone can do that.

More likely that Ireland will lose. What will Schmidt have to say, having secured his first triple turd for Ireland (losing to Scotland, Wales and England)?

"Disappointed for the boys. I think we sometimes put ourselves in good positions to maybe have more of a say in that result at the end but England are just a very classy side and pounced on any mistakes we made. They're a great side and it was always going to be an uphill fight to get the result today."

Eddie is too busy leading Sauraman's goblin hordes to really care.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Hood83 wrote:I'm not sure England do have the best carriers. If BV starts then yes, he's often excellent. But the best carrier for me is Stander, with SOB and Furlong behind him. At least on form they seem better than England's, say, Haskell, Hughes and I guess this tournament Lawes?

So I'm not convinced there's a big power difference. Our front row is bang average at carrying, as is Launchbury and it's only this tournament that Lawes has stepped up. I think this area will be far closer than people think.

Sexton's brittle but I bet he runs flat at Ford over and over again.

It has less to do with individual carrying ability than the tactics used. Stander is a fantastic ball carrier but he was stopped in his tracks a number of times against Wales as he took the ball static. We always seem to do that. It doesn't matter how well you can carry the ball - if you're taking the ball from a standing start you're not going to be that effective.

Pace is the name of the game...

I also think that SOB as a carrier is a shadow of the man he used to be. I know I could be haunted by those words...

Without Billy we don't have a stand out carrier (although Hughes is getting there) What we have started to do is find a way to share out the carrying among the forwards. Lawes, Launchbury Itoje and Haskell all seem to be happy trucking it up (as well as Hughes) and have had their moments. Be nice if Lawes found a way of not being stripped of the ball by a back though...

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Anyone know what Eddie Jones' excuse will be if England lose? Its fun to guess.

Unfortunately we have no experience of Jones presiding over England losses from which we can make informed assumptions

funnyExiledScot wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Anyone know what Eddie Jones' excuse will be if England lose? Its fun to guess.

1. Ireland weren't playing  proper rugby.
2. England aren't yet world class, but we will be by the next World Cup (a variation on the theme of "judge me by the World Cup").
3. Ireland just kicked the ball in the air. Anyone can do that.

More likely that Ireland will lose. What will Schmidt have to say, having secured his first triple turd for Ireland (losing to Scotland, Wales and England)?

Haha triple turd. He will probably blame Paddy Jackson.

robbo277 wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Anyone know what Eddie Jones' excuse will be if England lose? Its fun to guess.

Unfortunately we have no experience of Jones presiding over England losses from which we can make informed assumptions

I think the Italy game was as good as a loss and it gave us a good insight into how things will go when England lose.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Anyone know what Eddie Jones' excuse will be if England lose? Its fun to guess.

Unfortunately we have no experience of Jones presiding over England losses from which we can make informed assumptions

I think the Italy game was as good as a loss and it gave us a good insight into how things will go when England lose.

If only we'd have been awarded 5 points for every loss in the World Cup, we'd have topped our group with 20 points.

lostinwales wrote:

Without Billy we don't have a stand out carrier (although Hughes is getting there) What we have started to do is find a way to share out the carrying among the forwards. Lawes, Launchbury Itoje and Haskell all seem to be happy trucking it up (as well as Hughes) and have had their moments. Be nice if Lawes found a way of not being stripped of the ball by a back though...

Was impressed with Hughes last Saturday, but it was interesting that he was not (mainly) trucking up ball from a standing start. Very few carriers can make much headway like that (and it is what sets Billy V apart). However, in a more open game, he was able to use some handling skills and exploit space, as well as being a useful decoy in 2 of JJs tries. Once going in space he's a handful. Then again, I thought all England's forwards ran hard with ball in hand, and were very aware of the advantage of gaining that extra yard or two after contact, generating quick ball and a defence that can't realign.

Agree re Lawes either getting stripped or losing control of the ball. For someone so big and strong, it happens too frequently, and is one thing that stops him being a really top class player (similar to Mike Brown's unwillingness to pass).

Current rumours suggest Ireland starting 15 unchanged for the game.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Anyone know what Eddie Jones' excuse will be if England lose? Its fun to guess.

Unfortunately we have no experience of Jones presiding over England losses from which we can make informed assumptions

I think the Italy game was as good as a loss and it gave us a good insight into how things will go when England lose.

Hmm. 6 tries to 2 is 'as good as a loss'. Let's hope England actually win against Ireland. That could be 12 tries to 3.

Extending this logic England won the 2007 world cup despite being unfairly denied 10 points for the try Cueto didn't score by being in touch.

Ireland are going to pick the same 15 donkeys they picked last time? Boy, Joe does like putting his players through a mincer. Irish players now roaming the darkest streets of Dublin tonight looking to buy the best quality norovirus on the market.

They gotta learn...godammit

I just hope McFadden gets that 23 shirt. For the lols.

Don't know why Ferg is getting such a hard time - he's obviously in as backup kicker now Jackson has been put in his box...

If we get a loosing bonus point I will be amazed

carpet baboon wrote:If we get a loosing bonus point I will be amazed

Me too, although a losing bonus point is within our reach

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:If we get a loosing bonus point I will be amazed

Me too, although a losing bonus point is within our reach

Haha. I blame working nights and sausage fingers

Haha....mmmmmm sausages.

I've heard the Irish camp have come down with 'the Trots'.

Presumably if this match was taking place in Chicago, Ireland would absolutely hammer England.

George Carlin wrote:Presumably if this match was taking place in Chicago, Ireland would absolutely hammer England.

And we had no locks to put out?

George Carlin wrote:Presumably if this match was taking place in Chicago, Ireland would absolutely hammer England.

On Paddys weekend, you better believe it.

England line-up



Starters:
Marler, Hartley (C), Cole, Launchbury, Lawes, Itoje, Haskell, Vunipola, Youngs, Ford, Daly, Farrell, Joseph, Watson, Brown.
Finishers:
George, Vunipola, Sinckler, Wood, Hughes, Care, Te'o, Nowell.

As expected.

2 of our best players back in. Jones really wants Daly in there somewhere and he's keeping Nowell out who seems well suited to this sort of game. Can't wait.

Daly playing wing over Nowell, who'd have thunk it at the start of the tournament. In Jones we trust.

Guess the team shows our tactics. Ireland defend narrow, get pace on the wing and chuck it wide.

I think he likes the option of the big boot and I guess this works in a few ways. Daly can smash them over from the halfway line and it makes the defence think twice.

Good to see big Billy back, albeit after Hughes has his best game in an English jersey.

I know it's not a surprise to see Jones continued selection of Daly but after that bump and the likelihood of the sort of physical game coming up allied to Nowell being better under the high ball I did think it may well be Nowell and Watson lining up

Watching Nowell he is a bit of a younger Mike Brown, another back who looks for work and fights hard but doesn't like to pass too much. Perhaps having both start limits the team.

Is Nowell any better than Daly under the high ball?

I think Scott is right on the thought process, its a nice change making them worry about us rather than trying to counter their strengths

We shouldn't be worried about them as they have lost two games already. Plenty of footage on how to beat this Ireland team this season.

If you don't think Ireland in Ireland pose a significant risk you must still be wumming.

We live on an Island and play in a bigger stadium, whats the big deal about Dublin?

I'd assume that Daly is getting the start because hes faster and has a better boot than Nowell, not because Mike Brown is following instructions not to make high risk passes and Nowell doesnt have a 16th man outside him to pass to. Also it appears Jones is more forgiving of players who get their noses broken than Beshocked is.

Get out there and play 'our' normal game. That's all we can do.

Gooseberry wrote:I'd assume that Daly is getting the start because hes faster and has a better boot than Nowell, not because Mike Brown is following instructions not to make high risk passes and Nowell doesnt have a 16th man outside him to pass to. Also it appears Jones is more forgiving of players who get their noses broken than Beshocked is.

Sign of weakness bla bla infallible bla bla deity bla bla put on a pedestal bla

TightHEAD wrote:We live on an Island and play in a bigger stadium, whats the big deal about Dublin?

Twickenham is a dump though and in a really boring area.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:We live on an Island and play in a bigger stadium, whats the big deal about Dublin?

Twickenham is a dump though and in a really boring area.

I agree. But the history at HQ is great.

Plus our Guinness is just as good.

TightHEAD wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:We live on an Island and play in a bigger stadium, whats the big deal about Dublin?

Twickenham is a dump though and in a really boring area.

I agree. But the history at HQ is great.

Plus our Guinness    is just as good.

The history at Lansdowne road is better. Its the oldest international stadium in the world. It is the real HQ.

That said I would never turn down a trip to Twickers.

Gooseberry it's not high risk to pass the ball to a team mate unless you have hands like feet.

Against Scotland, a few English forwards were passing with more regularity and quality than Brown.

yappysnap you are right, Nowell didn't pass the ball much either.

I am not suggesting that a player needs to pass the ball all the time but if the opposition knows you'll look for contact, almost every single time you become predictable. Vunipola bros got try assists vs Scotland thanks to passing the ball instead of trying to crash it up again.

The ABs are the best in the world in my opinion because the forwards and backs link up well. Not just forwards crashing it up. There's nothing wrong with a forward coming on the wing if they can recycle the ball or get off a pass to a team mate.

England mixed things up nicely and if they vary things against Ireland they should win. I expect they'll use Billy as a decoy and not get him to just run everything.

Ireland huffed and puffed vs Wales but struggled to break down the Welsh defence.

Bambam see you have nothing constructive to say as usual. No change there.

Away Test matches in Union, given the general trend of results is a strange one. Pretty fed up that England consistently finishing the six nations away from home, particularly when we have the three home fixtures.

Eddie Jones has been lucky with Test refs in the current era of there being a dearth of nz/oz refs and a preponderance of French and SA refs who instinctively appreciate forward set piece tactics. Whilst clearly successful campaigns by teams are more sophisticated than relying on refs, there is no doubt in my mind that it is a significant factor.

Good point why do we always get an away game to finish on, really can't remember the last time we had a home game?

England start away a lot too.

Away in 2011,2012,2014,2015 and 2016 first game.

Not really fair in my opinion.

beshocked wrote:England start away a lot too.

Away in 2011,2012,2014,2015 and 2016 first game.

Not really fair in my opinion.

Id rather that than get Wayne Barnes every year for Ireland v Wales games. Now that's dodgy.

So I heard that Watson and Billy V are both in the team.