6N 2017: Ireland v England, 18 March

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IRELAND v ENGLAND
18 March 2017
KO: 17:00 GMT
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Referee: Jerome Garces (France)
Touch judges: Mathieu Raynal (France) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

Live on [BBC, RTE, DMAX, FR2, ITV (H)]

A. Head to Head

131 Played 131
47 Won 76
8 Drawn 8
76 Lost 47
1,079 Points 1,526

B. Recent Form

27 February 2016
Twickenham, London
21 – 10 to England

5 September 2015
Twickenham, London
21 – 13 to England

1 March 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
19 – 9 to Ireland

22 February 2014
Twickenham, London
13 – 10 to England

10 February 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
6 – 12 to England

17 March 2012
Twickenham, London
30 – 9 to England

C. Teams

IRELAND

Payne; Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Zebo; Sexton, Marmion; McGrath, Best (captain), Furlong; Ryan, Henderson; Stander, O'Brien, Heaslip,

Replacements: Scannell, Healy, Ryan, Toner, O'Mahony, McGrath, Jackson, Conway.

ENGLAND

Brown; Watson, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Youngs; Marler, Hartley (captain), Cole; Launchbury, Lawes; Itoje, Haskell, B Vunipola.

Replacements: George, M Vunipola, Sinckler, Wood, Hughes, Care, Te'o, Nowell.

SecretFly wrote:I know billy has mentioned him over the weekend - good man billy.  But I'll remind all the POM v Stander v Heaslip v Henderson v Toner v Payne v Kearney v Trimble v Zebo boys that we won that game (against the hardest hitting team in the NH, and the 2nd ranked side in the world) without Darth Murray and with a young, dancing tempo-setting Marmion.

Now how often have I heard that Murray is the essential ingredient in any Irish side with serious intent to win a game against the very best?  Marmion had a good part in allowing Ireland's bite to be sharper on the day, so let's not overlook his significance as the synopsis of the day mentions just about every player on the team - and off it - except him .

Rog wasnt playing either. That has to count for something.

SecretFly wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Anyone mentioned to beshocked about George throwing the ball straight to POM?

Ah beshocked will I'm sure be on tomorrow to lay down the law to all you non-believers.

Look hes quite happy to point out when his favourites fail.

And then tell you why hes right anyway



Have to say its refreshing how little niggle and drama and unfriendly banter there is on this thread given the gravity of the match. Compared to the wailing on the Wales threads its pretty blissfull. Its seems most of the squabbling seems to be over whether people are form Leinster or not.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I know billy has mentioned him over the weekend - good man billy.  But I'll remind all the POM v Stander v Heaslip v Henderson v Toner v Payne v Kearney v Trimble v Zebo boys that we won that game (against the hardest hitting team in the NH, and the 2nd ranked side in the world) without Darth Murray and with a young, dancing tempo-setting Marmion.

Now how often have I heard that Murray is the essential ingredient in any Irish side with serious intent to win a game against the very best?  Marmion had a good part in allowing Ireland's bite to be sharper on the day, so let's not overlook his significance as the synopsis of the day mentions just about every player on the team - and off it - except him .

Rog wasnt playing either. That has to count for something.

I thought McGrath outshone the lot of them with that touch finder.

rodders wrote:
I thought McGrath outshone the lot of them with that touch finder.

Rog would have got it a few inches closer to the corner flag.

Wow that was a very disappointing loss, however hopefully it will have highlighted some of our weaknesses.

The real problem is however that unless you actually turn up it doesn't matter how good you are, you will lose and that is regardless of ground advantage, weather, selections, leadership or tactics.

That was our worst performance since Wales at the wc.

So what went wrong?

Psychologically we were naive and given our performance the week before it was predictable we were going to be mentally disadvantaged. This applies to both coaches and players and will be the one area where we must grow and learn through the experience.  

Everyone will need to own this loss.

Specifically you can look at our;

Selections; Backrow was the major concern, Billy was undercooked and hadn't really earn't his elevation. Itoje is not a 6 and Haskell is not a 7 (though he has been successful previously, especially in tandum with Robshaw).

Would the backrow have performed with the better form of Hughes? They certainly would have been more recently familiar.

Tactics;
As many have said, surely it was a mistake to defend the maul entirely by sacrificing the opportunity to attack their throw. Surely we are sophisticated enough to understand when and where to do either or both?
We ignorantly kicked possession away, believing that the conditions meant we had to play the ball only in their half and so pressure them into mistakes, when actually we needed (as they did) to play with confidence and power with ball in hand, so as to vary our game and keep them guessing, and so increase our opportunities - and further our confidence.

Performance;
As said everyone performed poorly, however our lineout crumbled to a degree that makes any strategic plan virtually impossible to practice. Hartley plus our various jumping options have been excellent before this game so what on earth happened?

Leadership;

Was it just me that sensed amongst the melly not only a lack of leadership but perhaps a leadership challenge with certain players going their own way?

Overall I feel you have to go back to the fact that we just did not perform. Hopefully we will know not to go overboard in our reactions, but equally I hope Jones et al will use the extended period to document and seriously understand what happened. Mistakes will always occur in the heat of battle but this game was the final and we fluffed it big time.

I think the three toughest possible tests for England based on their recent history of results are SA away, NZ home or away and Ireland away. Maybe Wales away too.

Of their 18 match run England only faced Wales away so while the run of 18 wins is seriously impressive with respect I dont think it was as tough a fixture list as it could have been even if 4 wins v Australia is seriously impressive they arent a team England traditionally struggle against.

Exactly and this is why everyone's doing it.

Back to reality though and the truth is you're only as good as your last game, fact. And that being the case this will offer us a good opportunity to turn the page and emerge stronger. The honeymoon is over and there will be further losses ahead but as long as we continue to learn that is the challenge. Remember 2003 had many grevious set backs, each made them better. Its a long and winding road.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I think the three toughest possible tests for England based on their recent history of results are SA away, NZ home or away and Ireland away. Maybe Wales away too.

Of their 18 match run England only faced Wales away so while the run of 18 wins is seriously impressive with respect I dont think it was as tough a fixture list as it could have been even if 4 wins v Australia is seriously impressive they arent a team England traditionally struggle against.

Oh dear

Countries with a 1 match winning streak complaining about the quality of our 18 match winning streak

Loads of clips here of the Ireland v England legends game here.
Huge crowd.

https://twitter.com/RugbyLegendsIRE?lang=en

Some players still have it. THe funniest thing was Alan Quinlan robbing Shane Jennings ball when he was about to touch down!

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I think the three toughest possible tests for England based on their recent history of results are SA away, NZ home or away and Ireland away. Maybe Wales away too.

Of their 18 match run England only faced Wales away so while the run of 18 wins is seriously impressive with respect I dont think it was as tough a fixture list as it could have been even if 4 wins v Australia is seriously impressive they arent a team England traditionally struggle against.

You say that but Australia are a stronger side than SA currently..and England had never previously won a series there let alone whitewashed them.
If theyd gone to SA and won 3-0 no doubt you'd be dissing them for not having played Aus!

That aside yes theres been plenty said in regard to Englands run compared to NZs and its been well accepted that not only was their opposition not as strong but also they havent been winning games as convincingly. They are good...but not great.

Any run like this takes a a bit of planets aligning to happen, otherwise teams would do it more often.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I think the three toughest possible tests for England based on their recent history of results are SA away, NZ home or away and Ireland away. Maybe Wales away too.

Of their 18 match run England only faced Wales away so while the run of 18 wins is seriously impressive with respect I dont think it was as tough a fixture list as it could have been even if 4 wins v Australia is seriously impressive they arent a team England traditionally struggle against.

We have a better recent history in Cardiff than Dublin, in the Six Nations we've won 3 of our last 4 (2011, 2015 and 2017).

For me a series whitewash in Australia is bigger than the 2016 Grand Slam. Both were huge, but there have been 9 Grand Slams in the last 17 tournaments, one every two years. When was the last time a NH side won 3-0 against one of the big 3 away?

Scottrf wrote:Countries with a 1 match winning streak complaining about the quality of our 18 match winning streak

You are on a zero match winning streak now. Only as good as your last game.

Anyway not complaining about it, no need to be so precious about it. It is a great achievement all the same.

As much as Launchbury is a machine and gets through a ton of tackles...I can't help but feel this that if Kruis was playing our lineout would have functioned a lot better. He's just as solid a workhorse around the park as well.

Robshaw, Itoje, Kruis, Haskell, Billy are definitely our top combination...although Itoje hasn't really shone this tournament there's a good case for Lawes getting his spot.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Countries with a 1 match winning streak complaining about the quality of our 18 match winning streak

You are on a zero match winning streak now. Only as good as your last game.

Anyway not complaining about it, no need to be so precious about it. It is a great achievement all the same.

That we are Now to get started on the next one.

Scottrf wrote:Countries with a 1 match winning streak complaining about the quality of our 18 match winning streak

Guns ain't a country. He's just a person

SecretFly wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Countries with a 1 match winning streak complaining about the quality of our 18 match winning streak

Guns ain't a country.  He's just a person

Is he not your spokesman? My apologies.

Gooseberry wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I think the three toughest possible tests for England based on their recent history of results are SA away, NZ home or away and Ireland away. Maybe Wales away too.

Of their 18 match run England only faced Wales away so while the run of 18 wins is seriously impressive with respect I dont think it was as tough a fixture list as it could have been even if 4 wins v Australia is seriously impressive they arent a team England traditionally struggle against.

You say that but Australia are a stronger side than SA currently..and England had never previously won a series there let alone whitewashed them.
If theyd gone to SA and won 3-0 no doubt you'd be dissing them for not having played Aus!

That aside yes theres been plenty said in regard to Englands run compared to NZs and its been well accepted that not only was their opposition not as strong but also they havent been winning games as convincingly. They are good...but not great.

Any run like this takes a a bit of planets aligning to happen, otherwise teams would do it more often.

No I wouldnt. Playing away to SA is traditionally harder than away to Australia for a number of different reasons. Both teams are sub par this year. Lets not forget that England have won 8 of their last 10 games v Australia but only 1 of their last 10 v SA. That's the point I'm making.

Scottrf wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Countries with a 1 match winning streak complaining about the quality of our 18 match winning streak

Guns ain't a country.  He's just a person

Is he not your spokesman? My apologies.

I should be a country. I would appoint Jamie Heaslip as president. I would implement a strict immigration ban on Wayne Barnes.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Countries with a 1 match winning streak complaining about the quality of our 18 match winning streak

Guns ain't a country.  He's just a person

Is he not your spokesman? My apologies.

I should be a country. I would appoint Jamie Heaslip as president. I would implement a strict immigration ban on Wayne Barnes.

I'm sure I've heard people call you a country. But they seemed to cut off before finishing the word.

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Countries with a 1 match winning streak complaining about the quality of our 18 match winning streak

You are on a zero match winning streak now. Only as good as your last game.

Anyway not complaining about it, no need to be so precious about it. It is a great achievement all the same.

That we are Now to get started on the next one.

You are due to play Ireland again in about 10 games time.

Scottrf wrote:

I'm sure I've heard people call you a country. But they seemed to cut off before finishing the word.

Might have to extend my immigration ban.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Countries with a 1 match winning streak complaining about the quality of our 18 match winning streak

Guns ain't a country.  He's just a person

Is he not your spokesman? My apologies.

I should be a country. I would appoint Jamie Heaslip as president. I would implement a strict immigration ban on Wayne Barnes.

So Wayne could still ref us in places like Wales? Hmmm. I'd prefer a declaration of war on Wayne and take him down with a strategic nuke or two.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:You are due to play Ireland again in about 10 games time.

Probably at home. Won the last 4 matches there vs Ireland.

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:You are due to play Ireland again in about 10 games time.

Probably at home. Won the last 4 matches there vs Ireland.

History and records are a bitch though.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I think the three toughest possible tests for England based on their recent history of results are SA away, NZ home or away and Ireland away. Maybe Wales away too.

Of their 18 match run England only faced Wales away so while the run of 18 wins is seriously impressive with respect I dont think it was as tough a fixture list as it could have been even if 4 wins v Australia is seriously impressive they arent a team England traditionally struggle against.

You say that but Australia are a stronger side than SA currently..and England had never previously won a series there let alone whitewashed them.
If theyd gone to SA and won 3-0 no doubt you'd be dissing them for not having played Aus!

That aside yes theres been plenty said in regard to Englands run compared to NZs and its been well accepted that not only was their opposition not as strong but also they havent been winning games as convincingly. They are good...but not great.

Any run like this takes a a bit of planets aligning to happen, otherwise teams would do it more often.

No I wouldnt. Playing away to SA is traditionally harder than away to Australia for a number of different reasons. Both teams are sub par this year. Lets not forget that England have won 8 of their last 10 games v Australia but only 1 of their last 10 v SA. That's the point I'm making.

Theyve played SA once under Jones and beaten them. They havent toured there recently, the "tradition" is meaningless in the context of the run..noyt to mention that Englands record prior to this summer in Aus is near identical to that of their record in SA since readmission (and one of the wins in Aus was a world cup game rather than summer tour so not as badly affected by squad drop outs as summer tours tend to be) The "tradition" is only a thing thanks to the wins that came as part of this unique summer.
Aus are ranked well above SA and keep beating them. They are the better side.

So keep making your point by all means, its still ...pointless.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I think the three toughest possible tests for England based on their recent history of results are SA away, NZ home or away and Ireland away. Maybe Wales away too.

Of their 18 match run England only faced Wales away so while the run of 18 wins is seriously impressive with respect I dont think it was as tough a fixture list as it could have been even if 4 wins v Australia is seriously impressive they arent a team England traditionally struggle against.

You say that but Australia are a stronger side than SA currently..and England had never previously won a series there let alone whitewashed them.
If theyd gone to SA and won 3-0 no doubt you'd be dissing them for not having played Aus!

That aside yes theres been plenty said in regard to Englands run compared to NZs and its been well accepted that not only was their opposition not as strong but also they havent been winning games as convincingly. They are good...but not great.

Any run like this takes a a bit of planets aligning to happen, otherwise teams would do it more often.

No I wouldnt. Playing away to SA is traditionally harder than away to Australia for a number of different reasons. Both teams are sub par this year. Lets not forget that England have won 8 of their last 10 games v Australia but only 1 of their last 10 v SA. That's the point I'm making.

But we've won 4 out of 4 with Eddie against Australia and 1 out of 1 against South Africa. But that's because Eddie has made us better than both these teams.

Looking backwards:

2015 RWC vs Australia (H) - Lost
2014 AIs vs Australia (H) - Won
2014 AIs vs South Africa (H) - Lost
2013 AIs vs Australia (H) - Won

2012 AIs vs South Africa (H) - Lost
2012 AIs vs Australia (H) - Lost
2012 ST vs South Africa (A) - Drew
2012 ST vs South Africa (A) - Lost
2012 ST vs South Africa (A) - Lost

I don't think in the previous 4 years we've struggled more against South Africa than we have against Australia. We only played South Africa once in 2013-15 which is a small sample size.

In 2012 we kept losing to them, but that's because we played them three times away. We lost to Australia too that year, so it was more that we just weren't as good than we have issues with South Africa.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Completely agree about our back 3 needing a shake-up. In attack, the problem is a lack of gas just now - we terrify no-one with our pace on the outside at the moment and we need to find it from somewhere. Earls is elusive and should be retained as a squad player, but he isn't really quick enough to stretch the meanest defences. As for Zebo, he just remains an enigma to me; can look so good at the level below internationals and will murder a bad team, but when did he last put the frighteners on one of the top seven or eight sides? Whether or not Byrne, Sweetnam and Stockdale have what it takes we obviously don't know at the moment - the time to find out is now and over the next few months, including the summer and AI series.

Defensively, the back 3 looked shambolic at times during the 6N series, right up until the last game when I didn't notice much wrong. Kearney remains a rock under the high ball but had me closing my eyes at times with his tackling - the wings were also at fault for offering up chances against France, Scotland and Wales, some of which cost match-changing points. On balance, I'd be for keeping Kearney and Payne in the mix just now, but I would like to see new blood at 11 and 14 at once and a completely new back three by say 2019.

Interesting stat I read somewhere that the Ireland back three made more metres and more linebreaks than their illustrious opposition last weekend.

Zebo has been playing fullback all season for Munster, Joe has him on the left wing (understandable as he is left footed). Earls has been playing left wing for Munster and Joe moves him to the right. Then we have CJ at 6 when he has won about 18 motm's and a nomination for European player of the Year at No. 8.

This messing around to accommodate certain players does my head in.

Oh stop complaining! You can't have Zebo and Earls in all positions. Who you gonna drop if you stick both of them on the left? Rory?

Sin é wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:Completely agree about our back 3 needing a shake-up. In attack, the problem is a lack of gas just now - we terrify no-one with our pace on the outside at the moment and we need to find it from somewhere. Earls is elusive and should be retained as a squad player, but he isn't really quick enough to stretch the meanest defences. As for Zebo, he just remains an enigma to me; can look so good at the level below internationals and will murder a bad team, but when did he last put the frighteners on one of the top seven or eight sides? Whether or not Byrne, Sweetnam and Stockdale have what it takes we obviously don't know at the moment - the time to find out is now and over the next few months, including the summer and AI series.

Defensively, the back 3 looked shambolic at times during the 6N series, right up until the last game when I didn't notice much wrong. Kearney remains a rock under the high ball but had me closing my eyes at times with his tackling - the wings were also at fault for offering up chances against France, Scotland and Wales, some of which cost match-changing points. On balance, I'd be for keeping Kearney and Payne in the mix just now, but I would like to see new blood at 11 and 14 at once and a completely new back three by say 2019.

Interesting stat I read somewhere that the Ireland back three made more metres and more linebreaks than their illustrious opposition last weekend.

Zebo has been playing fullback all season for Munster, Joe has him on the left wing (understandable as he is left footed). Earls has been playing left wing for Munster and Joe moves him to the right. Then we have CJ at 6 when he has won about 18 motm's and a nomination for European player of the Year at No. 8.

This messing around to accommodate certain players does my head in.

I think at some point you are going to have to accept that Ireland isnt Munster. You cant expect Munster players to have everything their own way just because thats how it is when they play for Munster. Its not like Schmidt is only coach up plays players out of position to make sure the best 15 as he sees it are on the pitch.

Jones played Itoje in the backrow and Farrell in the centre for example.
Liam Williams plays on the wing for Wales and fullback for his club

Who cares where Zebo and Earls play for Munster Im sure they are just grateful they are being picked for Ireland.

Beautiful.

Horrible picture.

TightHEAD wrote:

Beautiful.

Yeah, the Irish players missed that. Too busy doing a lap of honour.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:Completely agree about our back 3 needing a shake-up. In attack, the problem is a lack of gas just now - we terrify no-one with our pace on the outside at the moment and we need to find it from somewhere. Earls is elusive and should be retained as a squad player, but he isn't really quick enough to stretch the meanest defences. As for Zebo, he just remains an enigma to me; can look so good at the level below internationals and will murder a bad team, but when did he last put the frighteners on one of the top seven or eight sides? Whether or not Byrne, Sweetnam and Stockdale have what it takes we obviously don't know at the moment - the time to find out is now and over the next few months, including the summer and AI series.

Defensively, the back 3 looked shambolic at times during the 6N series, right up until the last game when I didn't notice much wrong. Kearney remains a rock under the high ball but had me closing my eyes at times with his tackling - the wings were also at fault for offering up chances against France, Scotland and Wales, some of which cost match-changing points. On balance, I'd be for keeping Kearney and Payne in the mix just now, but I would like to see new blood at 11 and 14 at once and a completely new back three by say 2019.

Interesting stat I read somewhere that the Ireland back three made more metres and more linebreaks than their illustrious opposition last weekend.

Zebo has been playing fullback all season for Munster, Joe has him on the left wing (understandable as he is left footed). Earls has been playing left wing for Munster and Joe moves him to the right. Then we have CJ at 6 when he has won about 18 motm's and a nomination for European player of the Year at No. 8.

This messing around to accommodate certain players does my head in.

I think at some point you are going to have to accept that Ireland isnt Munster. You cant expect Munster players to have everything their own way just because thats how it is when they play for Munster. Its not like Schmidt is only coach up plays players out of position to make sure the best 15 as he sees it are on the pitch.

Jones played Itoje in the backrow and Farrell in the centre for example.
Liam Williams plays on the wing for Wales and fullback for his club

Who cares where Zebo and Earls play for Munster Im sure they are just grateful they are being picked for Ireland.

It's not Munster. It's Leinster

Haha. Thats what you think. Since the RWC there have been more new caps from Munster than Leinster.

Match day squad against England there were 10 Leinster players and 8 Munster players. I thinks that is a fair reflection of the strength of the two provinces at the moment.

The game on Saturday was Fantastic. Lets make no bones about it Ireland was absolutely brutal. I think the guy who came in for Heaslip POM was the difference in the team.

Although England could not lose ( the 6ns ) Grand Slam or not. But makes you wander what might have been if POM had stared the rest of the games in stead of Heaslip. It could well have been a Grand Slam decider after all.

But i said it once and i will say it again Well played Ireland clearly the better team on the day.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Horrible picture.

It's an eye sore alright.

majesticimperialman wrote:The game on Saturday was Fantastic. Lets make no bones about it Ireland was absolutely brutal. I think the guy who came in for Heaslip POM was the difference in the team.

Although England could not lose ( the 6ns ) Grand Slam or not. But makes you wander what might have been if POM had stared the rest of the games in stead of Heaslip. It could well have been a Grand Slam decider after all.

But i said it once and i will say it again Well played Ireland clearly the better team on the day.

Seemingly bringing in POM and winning the the game v England made a difference of 2m to the IRFU's bottom line (the difference of being 2nd in the competition).

Sin é wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:The game on Saturday was Fantastic. Lets make no bones about it Ireland was absolutely brutal. I think the guy who came in for Heaslip POM was the difference in the team.

Although England could not lose ( the 6ns ) Grand Slam or not. But makes you wander what might have been if POM had stared the rest of the games in stead of Heaslip. It could well have been a Grand Slam decider after all.

But i said it once and i will say it again Well played Ireland clearly the better team on the day.

Seemingly bringing in POM and winning the the game v England made a difference of 2m to the IRFU's bottom line (the difference of being 2nd in the competition).

By that same argument dropping POM for the France and Italy games had the same effect.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:Completely agree about our back 3 needing a shake-up. In attack, the problem is a lack of gas just now - we terrify no-one with our pace on the outside at the moment and we need to find it from somewhere. Earls is elusive and should be retained as a squad player, but he isn't really quick enough to stretch the meanest defences. As for Zebo, he just remains an enigma to me; can look so good at the level below internationals and will murder a bad team, but when did he last put the frighteners on one of the top seven or eight sides? Whether or not Byrne, Sweetnam and Stockdale have what it takes we obviously don't know at the moment - the time to find out is now and over the next few months, including the summer and AI series.

Defensively, the back 3 looked shambolic at times during the 6N series, right up until the last game when I didn't notice much wrong. Kearney remains a rock under the high ball but had me closing my eyes at times with his tackling - the wings were also at fault for offering up chances against France, Scotland and Wales, some of which cost match-changing points. On balance, I'd be for keeping Kearney and Payne in the mix just now, but I would like to see new blood at 11 and 14 at once and a completely new back three by say 2019.

Interesting stat I read somewhere that the Ireland back three made more metres and more linebreaks than their illustrious opposition last weekend.

Zebo has been playing fullback all season for Munster, Joe has him on the left wing (understandable as he is left footed). Earls has been playing left wing for Munster and Joe moves him to the right. Then we have CJ at 6 when he has won about 18 motm's and a nomination for European player of the Year at No. 8.

This messing around to accommodate certain players does my head in.

I think at some point you are going to have to accept that Ireland isnt Munster. You cant expect Munster players to have everything their own way just because thats how it is when they play for Munster. Its not like Schmidt is only coach up plays players out of position to make sure the best 15 as he sees it are on the pitch.

Jones played Itoje in the backrow and Farrell in the centre for example.
Liam Williams plays on the wing for Wales and fullback for his club

Who cares where Zebo and Earls play for Munster Im sure they are just grateful they are being picked for Ireland.

And thats another thing that annoys me .... Itoje being selected for the Lions at 2nd row when he has not been playing there internationally.

Sin é wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:The game on Saturday was Fantastic. Lets make no bones about it Ireland was absolutely brutal. I think the guy who came in for Heaslip POM was the difference in the team.

Although England could not lose ( the 6ns ) Grand Slam or not. But makes you wander what might have been if POM had stared the rest of the games in stead of Heaslip. It could well have been a Grand Slam decider after all.

But i said it once and i will say it again Well played Ireland clearly the better team on the day.

Seemingly bringing in POM and winning the the game v England made a difference of 2m to the IRFU's bottom line (the difference of being 2nd in the competition).

Can we all just agree that Munster won v England?

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:The game on Saturday was Fantastic. Lets make no bones about it Ireland was absolutely brutal. I think the guy who came in for Heaslip POM was the difference in the team.

Although England could not lose ( the 6ns ) Grand Slam or not. But makes you wander what might have been if POM had stared the rest of the games in stead of Heaslip. It could well have been a Grand Slam decider after all.

But i said it once and i will say it again Well played Ireland clearly the better team on the day.

Seemingly bringing in POM and winning the the game v England made a difference of 2m to the IRFU's bottom line (the difference of being 2nd in the competition).

By that same argument dropping POM for the France and Italy games had the same effect.

How could he have been dropped - unfortunately he wasn't fit for the Scotland game where at least one try (from lineout) would not have happened if he was there.

Sin é wrote:

And thats another thing that annoys me .... Itoje being selected for the Lions at 2nd row when he has not been playing there internationally.

He has played most of his tests at second row and a better 2nd row than back row.

Itoje has never lost an international match when he has played second row.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:The game on Saturday was Fantastic. Lets make no bones about it Ireland was absolutely brutal. I think the guy who came in for Heaslip POM was the difference in the team.

Although England could not lose ( the 6ns ) Grand Slam or not. But makes you wander what might have been if POM had stared the rest of the games in stead of Heaslip. It could well have been a Grand Slam decider after all.

But i said it once and i will say it again Well played Ireland clearly the better team on the day.

Seemingly bringing in POM and winning the the game v England made a difference of 2m to the IRFU's bottom line (the difference of being 2nd in the competition).

Can we all just agree that Munster won v England?

I'd put it more that Leinster lost against Scotland and Wales

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

And thats another thing that annoys me .... Itoje being selected for the Lions at 2nd row when he has not been playing there internationally.

He has played most of his tests at second row and a better 2nd row than back row.

He was calling the lineout on Saturday seemingly - that didn't go well.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:The game on Saturday was Fantastic. Lets make no bones about it Ireland was absolutely brutal. I think the guy who came in for Heaslip POM was the difference in the team.

Although England could not lose ( the 6ns ) Grand Slam or not. But makes you wander what might have been if POM had stared the rest of the games in stead of Heaslip. It could well have been a Grand Slam decider after all.

But i said it once and i will say it again Well played Ireland clearly the better team on the day.

Seemingly bringing in POM and winning the the game v England made a difference of 2m to the IRFU's bottom line (the difference of being 2nd in the competition).

Can we all just agree that Munster won v England?

I'd put it more that Leinster lost against Scotland and Wales

I know you would you Leinster wannabe.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

And thats another thing that annoys me .... Itoje being selected for the Lions at 2nd row when he has not been playing there internationally.

He has played most of his tests at second row and a better 2nd row than back row.

He was calling the lineout on Saturday seemingly - that didn't go well.

He has been calling it all tournament, he wasnt too bad until Saturday. Id have him as an impact sub anyway.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:The game on Saturday was Fantastic. Lets make no bones about it Ireland was absolutely brutal. I think the guy who came in for Heaslip POM was the difference in the team.

Although England could not lose ( the 6ns ) Grand Slam or not. But makes you wander what might have been if POM had stared the rest of the games in stead of Heaslip. It could well have been a Grand Slam decider after all.

But i said it once and i will say it again Well played Ireland clearly the better team on the day.

Seemingly bringing in POM and winning the the game v England made a difference of 2m to the IRFU's bottom line (the difference of being 2nd in the competition).

Can we all just agree that Munster won v England?

If it's a Munster win, was the game technically on neutral territory?

robbo277 wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:The game on Saturday was Fantastic. Lets make no bones about it Ireland was absolutely brutal. I think the guy who came in for Heaslip POM was the difference in the team.

Although England could not lose ( the 6ns ) Grand Slam or not. But makes you wander what might have been if POM had stared the rest of the games in stead of Heaslip. It could well have been a Grand Slam decider after all.

But i said it once and i will say it again Well played Ireland clearly the better team on the day.

Seemingly bringing in POM and winning the the game v England made a difference of 2m to the IRFU's bottom line (the difference of being 2nd in the competition).

Can we all just agree that Munster won v England?

If it's a Munster win, was the game technically on neutral territory?

No it was an away win for Munster. Dublin is part of Britain if you are from Munster even though they all live in Dublin.

Itoje in the second row won't be as bad as when they selected Croft as a wing