Political round up.............

by GSC Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:The Scots voted to remain part of the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU. Every Scottish vote counted the same as every other UK citizen. I don't see the issue.

The Scots (a good number if you look at post-ref stats from neutral sources) decided to vote no on varying issues. One of the main ones was because they feared losing their place in Europe. That won loads of votes for Better Together and has proved to be fruitless for the voters as they are now out of Europe.

The issue is that many Scots sees Scotland as its own country - sure not independent - but very close to it as they have their own government. However, when they vote by 62% to remain in Europe and end up being taken out of Europe it becomes a big issue to many. Yes we know the UK voted to exit but there are perhaps a million plus Scots who fail to recognize or accept being part of the UK or see themselves Scottish first and foremost and feel how they vote should hold more water than it does in the current union.

Sorry Craig, but that's democracy. Why should somebody in Edinburghs vote count more than someone's in London? Almost as ridiculous as Mhairi Black complaining that a region with more inhabitants had more MPs representing it than another region with less MPs.

But such is the politics of the SNP, always phrasing as Scotland vs the rest of the UK (or more accurately England) when Scotland voted to be part of the UK.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:57 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Theresa May has dropped plans to cap housing benefit for social and supported housing. Yet another big win for Labour. This government is a total mess.

Yougov have done a poll of marginal seats.

Labour's lead is even bigger in those....Must be good to be a Corbyn supporter right now..

by LionsV2 Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:00 pm

So good to be a supporter of a guy not in power, I'll stick with Theresa May.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:14 pm

Corbyn is way ahead on best leader rating too..

Like I said it must be good to be a Corbyn supporter now.

by LionsV2 Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:26 pm

Not really relevant when you're not in power is it but try to make out irrelevant polls mean something.

by **Pr4wn** Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:51 am

Funny that despite not being in power, Labour seem to be getting a lot more done, as this case proves.

by CaledonianCraig Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:29 pm

Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Hopefully, voters will get wise to the Scottish part-time Tory MP who deems it more important to be a stand-by UEFA official than attend votes at parliament.

Part-time? He has attended 96% of votes in this Parliament, which is more than most MPs, including John McNally (the SNP bloke who brandished a red card).

He has been hauled up before for missing votes in past parliaments for his 'other pursuits' and promised pre-election he wouldn't do it again. BS

I believe he’s retiring from refereeing after the next World Cup.

Can’t vouch for his short time as a MSP because I can’t locate attendance records. What I am sure of, however, is that he hasn’t been a part-timer during his time in Westminster. An actual part-timer would be someone like Mhairi Black, who has only bothered to vote 21% of the time.

There is differences there though - big differences.

One has other interests which leads him to miss votes. The other is a member of a party elected for a Scottish constituency for a party who realize that their vote counts for diddly squat on the passing of bills at Westminster hence they tend to abstain hence 21% record.

If you think such votes count for so little, why do you care if a Tory MP in Scotland misses 1 vote in every 25?

I was thinking more of his duties at Holyrood that he has missed more than Westminster.

That wasn't your original point. As you know.

No I don't know. He has missed votes in BOTH Westminster AND Holyrood. And this after he had promised pre-Election he wouldn't do it again. If you have no qualms about his missing votes - fair enough but lying (which he has done) is another thing.

by GSC Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:44 pm

Seems like more than a little bit of moving the goalposts there.

by LionsV2 Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:44 pm

What excuses do all the other MPs have for missing votes, you know the SNP ones who have skipped more?

by Derbymanc Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:17 pm

Well they're the SNP and what they do is what's best for the scottish people so obviously missing those is what's best for Scotland as a whole

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:31 pm

I remember some donut called Liam Byrne leaving a letter when Labour lost in 2010 saying "Sorry no money left"..The wally thought he was funny but it ended up as the gift that kept on giving.

Now he has been replaced by this O'Mara guy..

Dear oh dear..Whoever is responsible for this scumbag should be hauled over hot coals.

Going to be very damaging to Labour this guy....

by **Pal Joey** Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:39 pm

Yeah, a total idiot.

Is that a map of Corsica on his forehead or did he just cut himself shaving? How these sorts of people get into Parliament is beyond me.

Is it a flaw in the system (like our Senator who got elected with only 77 votes and who got ditched today... along with 4 others) or did he somehow get in under the radar without anyone really noticing him opening his mouth too much?

by CaledonianCraig Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:41 pm

LionsV2 wrote:What excuses do all the other MPs have for missing votes, you know the SNP ones who have skipped more?

I have already explained. The SNP (in lots of Westminster votes) abstain as their vote is (like in the Brexit case) irrelevant to the end result. They abstain rather than waste time voting as the result is already set in stone.

by CaledonianCraig Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:45 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Well they're the SNP and what they do is what's best for the scottish people so obviously missing those is what's best for Scotland as a whole

It is more a case of a point being made about Westminster where their voice in Westminster is irrelevant. They have views on what is best for Scotland not shared by 95% of Westminster - that 95% either being more interedted in their own consituencies which is fair enough or are Scottish MPs who will tow big daddy's party line - Labour and Tory.

by LionsV2 Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:46 pm

Their votes are irrelevant when we have a minority government? You can use that excuse for anybody but doesn't make it a satisfactory one.

by CaledonianCraig Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:49 pm

LionsV2 wrote:Their votes are irrelevant when we have a minority government? You can use that excuse for anybody but doesn't make it a satisfactory one.

In several cases their votes are totally irrelevant as Brexit bills etc show. If you cannot understand or see that then you are very naive indeed.

by LionsV2 Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:51 pm

They get paid to do a job that they can't be bothered doing, strange how you condone the SNP for doing that but nobody else, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

by CaledonianCraig Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:58 pm

LionsV2 wrote:They get paid to do a job that they can't be bothered doing, strange how you condone the SNP for doing that but nobody else, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

No I understand the SNPs stance. Their not voting is a protest as their vote counts for nothing whilst the Scottish Tory who misses votes comes after he promised he would not miss anymore votes if elected and he has already broken that promise. The SNP are elected by their constituencies to stand up for Scotland and people accept their abstaining when their vote will not count for nothing. It has been going on for years by the way and accepted by voters.

by LionsV2 Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:01 pm

What a load of nonsense, one rule for one and another for the SNP, how embarrassing.

by CaledonianCraig Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:08 pm

LionsV2 wrote:What a load of nonsense, one rule for one and another for the SNP, how embarrassing.

Not at all. The SNP MPs are voted into parliament for what they stand for - if that appeals to voters then that is all that matters. The Scottish Tory though promised he would not miss votes if elected and has reneged.

by LionsV2 Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:39 pm

I doubt his voters care too much about missing one vote, if it's good enough for the SNP it's good enough for anyone.

by GSC Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:43 pm

If I'm ever in court I'll explain to the judge it was for Scotland, seems to be valid in all situations.

by Derbymanc Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:49 pm

It's nice to see Craig finally admit the SNP are irrelevant though :-).

I've never understood people who get so blinkered that they'll stick up for 'their' party regardless of what they do.

If you don't like one party doing it then you should be shouting louder when your 'own' party does it to show you hold the same morals up for all.

(I don't really understand following a party regardless, i look at what each MP is offering and if it goes with that i beileve will be best for the area i'll pick that.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:22 pm

Two things I’ve seen today:

Rees-Mogg says r*** victims who get abortions are committing a second wrong

Michael Gove compared being interviewed on the "Today" programme to going into Harvey Weinstein's bedroom

by GSC Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:24 pm

I saw a sunrise

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:26 pm

That’s lovely. Did you stay up for it or wake early?

by Derbymanc Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:39 pm

Please God don't let that Rees Mogg get in, although thinking of it, what was the first wrong r*** victims did???

I thought it was well established that Gove is a numpty :-)

by LionsV2 Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:55 pm

Rees-Mogg really does worry people, the more he irritates the left the more we like him.

by Ent Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:08 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Please God don't let that Rees Mogg get in, although thinking of it, what was the first wrong r*** victims did???

I thought it was well established that Gove is a numpty :-)

Think the suggestion is the r***ist committed the first wrong.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:12 pm

LionsV2 wrote:Rees-Mogg really does worry people, the more he irritates the left the more we like him.

That’s depressing, and rather irrational. So you condone what he says because it irritates people?

by Derbymanc Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:16 pm

he's an idiot Lions, plain and simple his views seem extremely outdated and he does nothing but polarize people (and i don't consider myself a lefty (whatever that means anyway).

Ahhh got you Ent, thought he was trying to blame the victim for something

by LionsV2 Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:49 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Rees-Mogg really does worry people, the more he irritates the left the more we like him.

That’s depressing, and rather irrational. So you condone what he says because it irritates people?

What's depressing is seeking things out to be offended by, it was an interview he gave on Somerset radio that has received next to no coverage. His views are his own and he's entitled to them, he's an unstoppable debating force and that worries people, he swats aside any Labour MP he's up against and for that he's adored within the party.

I don't condone nor share his views but would I vote for him? Most certainly, his economic views are that of a genuine Conservative, the rest is just a sideshow designed to deflect away from that.

by GSC Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:54 pm

He's entitled to his views, but he and others with a public platform should be careful about how they express them. There are a lot of highly impressionable/stupid people in the world.

by Duty281 Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:16 pm

Derbymanc wrote:It's nice to see Craig finally admit the SNP are irrelevant though :-).

I've never understood people who get so blinkered that they'll stick up for 'their' party regardless of what they do.

If you don't like one party doing it then you should be shouting louder when your 'own' party does it to show you hold the same morals up for all.

Hear, hear.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:10 pm

LionsV2 wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Rees-Mogg really does worry people, the more he irritates the left the more we like him.

That’s depressing, and rather irrational. So you condone what he says because it irritates people?

What's depressing is seeking things out to be offended by, it was an interview he gave on Somerset radio that has received next to no coverage. His views are his own and he's entitled to them, he's an unstoppable debating force and that worries people, he swats aside any Labour MP he's up against and for that he's adored within the party.

I don't condone nor share his views but would I vote for him? Most certainly, his economic views are that of a genuine Conservative, the rest is just a sideshow designed to deflect away from that.

My goodness, something in local news made national news from a national figure?! I’m not particularly offended, I’m unlikely to ever have an abortion or a pregnancy after being raped, but it ain’t half stupid to hold that view.

Thankfully, the views of one person are unlikely to hugely impact the country. I’m not sure I could support their position though, similar to any anti-Semite (to give a semblance of balance) - same in politics as it would be Football

by TRUSSMAN66 Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:43 pm

Not stupid to hold all life as sacred..I see where Pro-lifers come from and their opinions should be respected.

However in this regard I worry about the health of the poor victim who not only has the trauma of the initial experience but gets to be constantly reminded thereafter during her pregnancy and for me her well being should be of primary concern.

I'm pro abortion but I have no doubts Rees Mogg's position is well intended..

Emotive subject.

by Duty281 Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:05 pm

JRM's views on abortion are held because of his slavish adherence to the Catholic Church, not because of a well-reasoned conclusion after evaluating both sides of the argument.

by LionsV2 Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:23 pm

A lot of our laws came about because of religious beliefs.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:31 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not stupid to hold all life as sacred..I see where Pro-lifers come from and their opinions should be respected.

However in this regard I worry about the health of the poor victim who not only has the trauma of the initial experience but gets to be constantly reminded thereafter during her pregnancy and for me her well being should be of primary concern.

I'm pro abortion but I have no doubts Rees Mogg's position is well intended..

Emotive subject.

I think it’s stupid to call it wrong, especially in the same sentence as r*** being wrong.

And I think it’s a bit daft to think your personal choice should be anyone else’s - especially a r*** victim.

by LionsV2 Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:34 pm

We don't have personal choice on such matters, we vote for and elect others to make the choice for us.

by Duty281 Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:34 pm

LionsV2 wrote:A lot of our laws came about because of religious beliefs.

A bygone age.

by LionsV2 Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:46 pm

The modern current age in fact.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:29 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not stupid to hold all life as sacred..I see where Pro-lifers come from and their opinions should be respected.

However in this regard I worry about the health of the poor victim who not only has the trauma of the initial experience but gets to be constantly reminded thereafter during her pregnancy and for me her well being should be of primary concern.

I'm pro abortion but I have no doubts Rees Mogg's position is well intended..

Emotive subject.

I think it’s stupid to call it wrong, especially in the same sentence as r*** being wrong.

Is that the sound of goalposts moving..

I'm not a fan of Mogg but It is a bit harsh to suggest he is viewing both wrongs with equivalence.

I think murder and spitting are both wrong.

Right to choose is something I believe in But let's calm down a little.

by Ent Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:23 pm

Is there anything more wrong than killing babies?

by **JuliusHMarx** Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:02 am

Ent wrote:Is there anything more wrong than killing babies?

Priests molesting choirboys?

by Derbymanc Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:02 pm

Isn't that the main crux of the debate at the moment Ent, where does life begin etc?

I read something a while back on if you were in a burning building with a room full of embryo's and one child who/what do you save (you can only carry one and there's only enough time to save the embryo's OR the child)

The crux of it being, if you believe life starts at conception then morally you have to save the embryo's (saving more lives) but most would save the child. (You'll have to look it up it was written way wayyyyyy better than i did it)

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:48 pm

Looks like all the Tory gloating over Labour's idiot Jared O'Mara..

Has come to an abrupt end..

by Ent Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:58 pm

I think most people accept life begins at conception, too many caveats if you determine it at any other points.

As for the moral scenario it doesn't actually work as out of the storage facility the embryos won't survive.

You could just ask do people value 10 embryos more highly than 1 child's life rather than constructing some inane scenario.

by **JuliusHMarx** Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:27 pm

I think most people would value one child's life more than 10 embryos.
The law, which usually but not always, reflects the consensus of the majority, accepts the killing of embyros, but not the killing of children (or babies).

by Ent Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:22 pm

U.K. Law that is (well parts of the uk). Doesn't mean it is right.

Yes you are correct people don't seem to have a problem with embryos being killed - I don't really understand why that is.

Gone off piste here, the point was to establish the facts and debate them not for each side to come up with bizarre moral situations in order to make a point.

by **JuliusHMarx** Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:33 pm

Doesn't make it wrong either.

Which facts are we trying to establish?

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