NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

by **George Carlin** Wed 28 Jun 2017, 7:45 am

First topic message reminder :

NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July - Page 14 All_bl10

NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July - Page 14 Lions_12

NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
1 July 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
WESTPAC Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington

Live on Sky Sports HD

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
ARs: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

39 Played 39
30 Won 6
3 Drawn 3
6 Lost 30
664 Points 360

B. Recent Form

24 June 2017
Eden Park, Auckland
30 – 15 to New Zealand

9 July 2005
Eden Park, Auckland
38 – 19 to New Zealand

2 July 2005
Westpac Stadium, Wellington
48 – 18 to New Zealand

25 June 2005
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
21 – 3 to New Zealand

3 July 1993
Eden Park, Auckland
30 – 13 to New Zealand

26 June 1993
Athletic Park, Wellington
7 – 20 to British & Irish Lions

12 June 1993
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
20 – 18 to New Zealand

16 July 1983
Eden Park, Auckland
38 – 6 to New Zealand

2 July 1983
Carisbrook, Dunedin
15 – 8 to New Zealand

18 June 1983
Athletic Park (Wellington), Wellington
9 – 0 to New Zealand

4 June 1983
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
16 – 12 to New Zealand

C. TEAMS:

NEW ZEALAND
NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July - Page 14 Kirean10

NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July - Page 14 Kirean10

[tbc]

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July - Page 14 Muppet10

[tbc]

by 123456789 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:42 am

fa0019 wrote:
123456789 wrote:The main thing the Lions can take from that is that they won, but also that they beat new Zealand playing poorly. This will probably go down as a heroic Lions win and the fact that New Zealand had 14 players for 55 minutes and the Lions made a dogs dinner of it will be whitewashed.
The players from 25 minutes to 60 minutes looked completely lost which, for me, undermines the point of having Farrell and Sexton there. That said the last 20 was brilliant, to score 15 points to 3 in the last 20 is no small feat against any team. The third test is going to be absolutely enormous so I'd stick with the Farrell-Sexton axis, Te'o has a handful of caps, Farrell and Sexton are hugely experienced.
Looking toward next week, Vunipola needs to be looked at. On another day a ref could have shown a red for his second challenge, it would have been incredibly charged but he had no need to give the ref a chance to make a decision. I'd take Lawes in over AWJ, Lawes has that extra bit of power to give the Lions some oomph in defense and a bit of go forward in the attack. I'd keep AWJ on the bench, his experience and leadership could (hopefully) be vital in the last 20. I'd keep the backline largely the same, Davies has been brilliant and shows that sometimes, and only very very occasionally, picking someone who's shown no form just because they're Welsh can pay off. He seems to be one of those players transformed by a Lions jersey, he always seems a bit average to me playing for Wales but he's been very good in the last 5 Lions tests a bit like Tom Croft really.

Was Davies really stand out? In what capacity? NZ never charged down his channel and he never really got any opportunities.

AWJ put in a shift to be applauded... albeit one like Jamie Carragher would be applauded for when England/Liverpool would play 10 men behind the ball and cut out all the space. Its different when you don't have an open game and passes are short. Last week the Lions were stretched and guys like Jones were left behind.
Its tricky, rain and AWJ looks like the man once more. No rain and Lawes looks the far better candidate.

I wouldn't say standout but the difference when he plays for the Lions is noticeable, when I think of him playing for Wales the overriding aspect is him getting the ball about 5m out of the 22 and passing it over the winger into touch which he seems to do quite regularly. For the Lions he doesn't go backwards, made a couple of half-breaks this week and a few good ones last week. I'm not saying he's up to O'Driscoll or Conrad Smith at his best but credit where credits due to both him and Gatland really he has stepped up. At the start of the tour few outside of Wales would have considered him the first choice 13 now it'd be hard to question. He's a very similar player to Huw Jones in some respects, although I think I'd take Huw Jones as a compromise had he been fit, his name's Welsh, born in Scotland, schooled in England, probably heard of Ireland.

by Hazel Sapling Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:43 am

I am not a fan of the Lions nor Gatland after what happened with the Scots players but credit where credit is due, a win is a win even in exceptional circumstances.

I only watched the first 10 minutes and the last 30 so missing quite a bit. From what I could see, AWJ was shattered by 50 minutes and both Warburton/SOB made some bone headed defensive lapses (Warburton at the lineout for a penalty and SOB in the defensive line that gave a line break in the near the 22).

Warburton and SOB worked hard though and the ref was not a fan of turnovers so it worked for them not to have a true fetcher. Faletau took a true wingers try, something I don't see Watson or Daly being at all capable of producing. Vunipola was a penalty machine even if the "charge" on Barrett was crowd/play acting.

I think I would go with McGrath to start as Vunipola lost discipline as he tired so giving him the last 30 would maybe sort that out. Both props need to come off around 50 rather than 60 going forward as Sinckler put in some good tackles and worked hard (barring the penalty for not getting back onside).

AWJ looked tired/poor to me (Itoje tackled well and did his work at the line-out when he was not committing penalties). Henderson should have been given the opportunity but it is probably too late now. Maybe a Kruis/Itoje partnership with Lawes on the bench as they are used to playing with one another. Not sure what the other options at 6 are but Warburton does nothing for me. I would be tempted to put SOB at 6 and play Tips at 7 with Poite reffing. I like the midfield with 2 playmakers but Farrell will get blown backwards by Laumape and Leinert-Brown. Farrell at 10 and Te'o at 12 can negate that more effectively. This is where having a 13 who can pass would be useful.

Murray starts (even with his box kicking) and I don't like the wing set up (especially if Te'o plays at 12) but can't see it changing now. Nowell looks for work far more effectively.

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:43 am

Someone needs to buy Sinckler a beer for being short and fat and needing to jump to catch a ball and being awarded a pretty weak as pi55 penalty to win the game. The guys a legend.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:46 am

ebop wrote:Someone needs to buy Sinckler a beer for being short and fat and needing to jump to catch a ball and being awarded a pretty weak as pi55 penalty to win the game. The guys a legend.

Intelligent play.

by Taylorman Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:47 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Jerome Garces will not be popular with the NZ fans. This is why it is important to see a NZ team refereed properly and it provides a much needed deterrent for them not to resort to dirty play. They were rattled when they realised that Garces wouldn't follow the usual soft referee and media line of "playing on the edge of the law". Hopefully Poite will have the same toughness when officiating next week and hopefully we can have a full game with 30 players on the field.

Don't see many complaining at all Rory. We don't whinge about perceived dirty play as much as some do sooooo easily. Looks like the Lions gave more than they took but so what. Who didn't expect that after last week.
Nothing wrong with his refereeing. No worse than others we've seen. Think you overestimate what kiwis will or won't like. That was nothing to cry about. Some might, but overall it went well considering.

by marty2086 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:47 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Why wouldnt he be playing?

Hansen will start crying so the WRU will look to even things out in the all Blacks favour, you know the drill

Why would he cry to the Welsh?

by eirebilly Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:47 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:I am not a fan of the Lions nor Gatland after what happened with the Scots players but credit where credit is due, a win is a win even in exceptional circumstances.

I only watched the first 10 minutes and the last 30 so missing quite a bit. From what I could see, AWJ was shattered by 50 minutes and both Warburton/SOB made some bone headed defensive lapses (Warburton at the lineout for a penalty and SOB in the defensive line that gave a line break in the near the 22).

Warburton and SOB worked hard though and the ref was not a fan of turnovers so it worked for them not to have a true fetcher. Faletau took a true wingers try, something I don't see Watson or Daly being at all capable of producing. Vunipola was a penalty machine even if the "charge" on Barrett was crowd/play acting.

I think I would go with McGrath to start as Vunipola lost discipline as he tired so giving him the last 30 would maybe sort that out. Both props need to come off around 50 rather than 60 going forward as Sinckler put in some good tackles and worked hard (barring the penalty for not getting back onside).

AWJ looked tired/poor to me (Itoje tackled well and did his work at the line-out when he was not committing penalties). Henderson should have been given the opportunity but it is probably too late now. Maybe a Kruis/Itoje partnership with Lawes on the bench as they are used to playing with one another. Not sure what the other options at 6 are but Warburton does nothing for me. I would be tempted to put SOB at 6 and play Tips at 7 with Poite reffing. I like the midfield with 2 playmakers but Farrell will get blown backwards by Laumape and Leinert-Brown. Farrell at 10 and Te'o at 12 can negate that more effectively. This is where having a 13 who can pass would be useful.

Murray starts (even with his box kicking) and I don't like the wing set up (especially if Te'o plays at 12) but can't see it changing now. Nowell looks for work far more effectively.

POM at 6 like he was in the first test as captain?

Actually thought that Warburton played well today so do not see the need to replace him.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:50 am

marty2086 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Why wouldnt he be playing?

Hansen will start crying so the WRU will look to even things out in the all Blacks favour, you know the drill

Why would he cry to the Welsh?

IRB doh.

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:51 am

Any Lions supporters concerned the Lions couldn't eek out some penalties from a 7.5 man ABs scrum?

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:52 am

ebop wrote:Any Lions supporters concerned the Lions couldn't eek out some penalties from a 7.5 man ABs scrum?

We won and you lost.

by milkyboy Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:52 am

I thought Davies looked a threat again, wasn't sure he was the right selection originally but has been the pick of the backs in both games for me. AWJ did his job. They all did ok to be fair, discipline aside, for which MV was the prime culprit.

Itoje gave a few pens away but made a big difference today.

I think the lions can take positives not just from the result but from the fact that when it was 15 v 15 and 14 v 14 they did well, it was that damn extra man getting in the way that caused the problems.

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:52 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Why wouldnt he be playing?

Hansen will start crying so the WRU will look to even things out in the all Blacks favour, you know the drill

Why would he cry to the Welsh?

IRB doh.

WR

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:53 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
ebop wrote:Any Lions supporters concerned the Lions couldn't eek out some penalties from a 7.5 man ABs scrum?

We won and you lost.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:53 am

Taylorman wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Jerome Garces will not be popular with the NZ fans. This is why it is important to see a NZ team refereed properly and it provides a much needed deterrent for them not to resort to dirty play. They were rattled when they realised that Garces wouldn't follow the usual soft referee and media line of "playing on the edge of the law". Hopefully Poite will have the same toughness when officiating next week and hopefully we can have a full game with 30 players on the field.

Don't see many complaining at all Rory. We don't whinge about perceived dirty play as much as some do sooooo easily. Looks like the Lions gave more than they took but so what. Who didn't expect that after last week.
Nothing wrong with his refereeing. No worse than others we've seen. Think you overestimate what kiwis will or won't like. That was nothing to cry about. Some might, but overall it went well considering.

by fa0019 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:54 am

marty2086 wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I doubt we'll see te'o restored it worked pretty well today. I would like someone to get hold of Murray and tell him to stop box kicking quite so much. We look so much better when we actually keep the ball.

I cant agree that Sexton/Farrell was a success. The only reason it looked ok was because SBW was red carded. While SBW was on, it was not working for me.

As for Murray box kicking, I agree but it is the game plan he is sent out with by Gatland.

No Farrell no Faletau try as well a lot more pressure on Sexton.

The freedom was provided due to the AB's loosing SBW. I am not saying drop Farrell, I just do not think the 10/12 combination works as it asks too much of SOB to cover him defensively.

SOB won't be playing next week. More likely Crotty and in that scenario its far less of a problem.

Why wouldnt he be playing?

SBW... damn these acronyms

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:55 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Jerome Garces will not be popular with the NZ fans. This is why it is important to see a NZ team refereed properly and it provides a much needed deterrent for them not to resort to dirty play. They were rattled when they realised that Garces wouldn't follow the usual soft referee and media line of "playing on the edge of the law". Hopefully Poite will have the same toughness when officiating next week and hopefully we can have a full game with 30 players on the field.

Don't see many complaining at all Rory. We don't whinge about perceived dirty play as much as some do sooooo easily. Looks like the Lions gave more than they took but so what. Who didn't expect that after last week.
Nothing wrong with his refereeing. No worse than others we've seen. Think you overestimate what kiwis will or won't like. That was nothing to cry about. Some might, but overall it went well considering.

The difference is Farrell and Sexton can take it whilst Barrett thinks it's super rugby and expects constant protection.

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:56 am

It's great to see some gracious Lions supporters enjoying their win. It's really great.

by nathan Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:58 am

ebop wrote:Someone needs to buy Sinckler a beer for being short and fat and needing to jump to catch a ball and being awarded a pretty weak as pi55 penalty to win the game. The guys a legend.

The penalty was spot on. Absolutely appalling decision making by the AB player to tackle a player whilst hes in the air, especially with 2 minutes left on the clock, drawing on the score board and within kicking distance.

Completely brain dead decision

by nathan Sat 01 Jul 2017, 11:59 am

ebop wrote:It's great to see some gracious Lions supporters enjoying their win. It's really great.

Just like you being the gracious loser. It's hilarious.

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:00 pm

Yeah it was a penalty

Bit lucky though given he jumped at the last minute

by fa0019 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:02 pm

ebop wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
ebop wrote:Any Lions supporters concerned the Lions couldn't eek out some penalties from a 7.5 man ABs scrum?

We won and you lost.

Its depends. On NZ it was always vs. 8. On Lions ball sure it was 7.. but in reality the meat and veg of it is the 5 vs 5. The conditions didn't help and in fact I thought Vunipolas first fo his four pens was harsh. Franks obviously fell face first and vunipola stood his ground. NZ were moving slightly forward but it was probably Franks and the conditions that collapsed the scrum... but the French do love forward momentum.

Its the problem with Vunipola. To play or not. Not and you lose a vital 2nd receiver platform and his ball carrying (which the lions lack bar SOB). I do wonder who will take that mantle off Mako as its rather key. I've seen AWJ do it for Wales but Vunipola's hands are one of the best in rugby. Him a Will Skelton should have been flyhalves.

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:03 pm

nathan wrote:
ebop wrote:It's great to see some gracious Lions supporters enjoying their win. It's really great.

Just like you being the gracious loser. It's hilarious.

I said well done Lions for scraping home against 14 men

You're being a bit harsh

by milkyboy Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:03 pm

I've always thought Farrell was pretty strong defensively, but today they bulldozed his channel a few times... with supporting drivers. With the lions tackling high to stop offloads, and trying to create a maul... means it's hard to stop the drive against someone who contacts low and is isn't looking to offload. Good counter tactics from the ABs.

by nathan Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:03 pm

ebop wrote:Yeah it was a penalty

Bit lucky though given he jumped at the last minute

No. He didn't, he jumped to get the ball and the kiwi player committed after he was off the ground.

The only blame can be put on the shoulders of the kiwi player

by nathan Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:04 pm

ebop wrote:
nathan wrote:
ebop wrote:It's great to see some gracious Lions supporters enjoying their win. It's really great.

Just like you being the gracious loser. It's hilarious.
I said well done Lions for scraping home against 14 men

You're being a bit harsh

You're being an idiot... As you usual

by fa0019 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:04 pm

ebop wrote:Yeah it was a penalty

Bit lucky though given he jumped at the last minute

Its not luck. Its stupidity by the AB. The lions had obvious field position and yet he charged out.

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:06 pm

nathan wrote:
ebop wrote:
nathan wrote:
ebop wrote:It's great to see some gracious Lions supporters enjoying their win. It's really great.

Just like you being the gracious loser. It's hilarious.
I said well done Lions for scraping home against 14 men

You're being a bit harsh

You're being an idiot... As you usual

Way to go sport thumbsup

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:08 pm

nathan wrote:
ebop wrote:Yeah it was a penalty

Bit lucky though given he jumped at the last minute

No. He didn't, he jumped to get the ball and the kiwi player committed after he was off the ground.

The only blame can be put on the shoulders of the kiwi player

Watch it again, Charlie was set with head down bracing for the tackle and Sinkler jumps up to catch the ball. It's unfortunate timing. Weak penalty but a penalty nonetheless.

by fa0019 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:09 pm

In the end you have to play conditions, play the scenario however unlikely. NZ play Barrett over his well known lack of world class kicking because they believe his off days will only cause the odd loss. But its playing the percentages. Most of his potshots were pretty standard regardless of conditions.
Half time and with NZ knowing they would have to grind out a win perhaps they should have gone with Cruden earlier and handed over the tee.

Thats the only error bar the SBW incident NZ really made. Gatland to his credit chose a side to play the conditions. Hansen didn't.

by fa0019 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:10 pm

ebop wrote:
nathan wrote:
ebop wrote:Yeah it was a penalty

Bit lucky though given he jumped at the last minute

No. He didn't, he jumped to get the ball and the kiwi player committed after he was off the ground.

The only blame can be put on the shoulders of the kiwi player
Watch it again, Charlie was set with head down bracing for the tackle and Sinkler jumps up to catch the ball. It's unfortunate timing. Weak penalty but a penalty nonetheless.

20 metres in front of the posts, 4 mins on the clock with opposition attacking... he needs to be a little more mindful though. You can't fly out in that range.

by lostinwales Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:13 pm

ebop wrote:It's great to see some gracious Lions supporters enjoying their win. It's really great.

Nice to see the odd gracious loser too.

Do remember that NZ still have the best rugby team around. Them losing once in a while doesn't actually threaten your masculinity

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:14 pm

fa0019 wrote:
ebop wrote:
nathan wrote:
ebop wrote:Yeah it was a penalty

Bit lucky though given he jumped at the last minute

No. He didn't, he jumped to get the ball and the kiwi player committed after he was off the ground.

The only blame can be put on the shoulders of the kiwi player
Watch it again, Charlie was set with head down bracing for the tackle and Sinkler jumps up to catch the ball. It's unfortunate timing. Weak penalty but a penalty nonetheless.

20 metres in front of the posts, 4 mins on the clock with opposition attacking... he needs to be a little more mindful though. You can't fly out in that range.

Yup agreed, no issue with the penalty, some people on this forum can't read for peanuts

by No 7&1/2 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:26 pm

Nz injuries and suspensions mounting. Coming off a loss. Pressure mounting. I love lions tours!

by Anglobraveheart Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:26 pm

I missed the game live, but caught the updates via the bbc twitter feed. I did think it really ironic, that the player called Williams that won the game for the Lions, was neither Welsh nor a Lion.

by EST Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:30 pm

Congrats to the Lions, they seemed desperate to lose at one stage in the second half, but dug it out.

There is a huge amount to work on before the next test, but that victory sets up what should be an epic. I still feel that selection wise, we haven't found the best team yet - perhaps McGrath to come in for MV, while the second row/bench is still a conundrum - can't help but feel a place needs to be found for Henderson in the 23 somewhere, and Lawes was very good when he came on.

Final word on Gats, Warburton and AWJ. All three have come in for some stick (from myself included), and I thought the two players put in very good shifts - Warburton in particular. I don't agree with many of Gatland's methods, but the history books will show a Lions win in NZ - that is no small feat, regardless of how it was achieved.

by Guest Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:31 pm

lostinwales wrote:
ebop wrote:It's great to see some gracious Lions supporters enjoying their win. It's really great.

Nice to see the odd gracious loser too.

Do remember that NZ still have the best rugby team around. Them losing once in a while doesn't actually threaten your masculinity

A lot of NZers can handle a loss much better than we used to given we've asserted our dominance at RWCs. A loss here and there happens. Some Lions supporters are melting down over the win. Probably a lot of pent up emotion finally seeping out. I get it. It's fine. Enjoy the win thumbsup

by GunsGermsV2 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:33 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I doubt we'll see te'o restored it worked pretty well today. I would like someone to get hold of Murray and tell him to stop box kicking quite so much. We look so much better when we actually keep the ball.

Farrell at 12 kept the ABs in the game. His tackling isn't good enough. Same with first test. They are getting so many yards through him.

by fa0019 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:34 pm

ebop wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
ebop wrote:
nathan wrote:
ebop wrote:Yeah it was a penalty

Bit lucky though given he jumped at the last minute

No. He didn't, he jumped to get the ball and the kiwi player committed after he was off the ground.

The only blame can be put on the shoulders of the kiwi player
Watch it again, Charlie was set with head down bracing for the tackle and Sinkler jumps up to catch the ball. It's unfortunate timing. Weak penalty but a penalty nonetheless.

20 metres in front of the posts, 4 mins on the clock with opposition attacking... he needs to be a little more mindful though. You can't fly out in that range.
Yup agreed, no issue with the penalty, some people on this forum can't read for peanuts

I know where you're coming from... but all pens are sort of lucky so not really worth the mention. Props are notorious for their inability to keep their hands out the cookie jar, been their problem most of their lives

by fa0019 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:35 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I doubt we'll see te'o restored it worked pretty well today. I would like someone to get hold of Murray and tell him to stop box kicking quite so much. We look so much better when we actually keep the ball.

Farrell at 12 kept the ABs in the game. His tackling isn't good enough. Same with first test. They are getting so many yards through him.

His pass to williams made Faletaus try though. His kicking kept the Lions in the game. He was only dropped once.

T'eo would never have made that pass. All players have their pros and cons. Farrell isn't a bad tackler, he's just not a monster.

by 123456789 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:36 pm

The more and more I watch the highlights the more and more it's clear the Lions did a job on Barrett, every ruck he was shoved to the ground, and a couple of times he realised he was on the floor scarpered. He's a bloody good rugby player but he showed today he's some way off vintage Carter, in the 2nd test in 2005 he was untouchable. There's part of me that was very pleased with that aspect of the game overall, for the All Blacks playing on the edge persistently becomes playing over it. Both teams played on the edge today and the referee punished them accordingly. The inconsistencies are worrying mind, the penalty for Vunipola given and the late hit on Farrell not even looked at, I'm not saying it was a penalty necessarily but it needed a second look. The Lions will have to go up another two or three levels next week to pull this off. But this is fast shaping up to be one of the best test series of all time, let's just hope it gets the finale it deserves. The Lions win this week has saved the Lions concept, a win next week strengthens it immeasurably.

by GunsGermsV2 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:36 pm

milkyboy wrote:I've always thought Farrell was pretty strong defensively, but today they bulldozed his channel a few times... with supporting drivers. With the lions tackling high to stop offloads, and trying to create a maul... means it's hard to stop the drive against someone who contacts low and is isn't looking to offload. Good counter tactics from the ABs.

They did that to Farrell in the first test too. Surely he must be dropped for the third test. Is he undroppable or something?

by EST Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:39 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I doubt we'll see te'o restored it worked pretty well today. I would like someone to get hold of Murray and tell him to stop box kicking quite so much. We look so much better when we actually keep the ball.

Farrell at 12 kept the ABs in the game. His tackling isn't good enough. Same with first test. They are getting so many yards through him.

Farrell was directly involved in the Faletau try twice - once going right where he and Sexton ran a loop, and then again on the way back with his long pass to Williams. And his solid goal kicking won us the game....not quite sure why you are so against him.

by GunsGermsV2 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:42 pm

fa0019 wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I doubt we'll see te'o restored it worked pretty well today. I would like someone to get hold of Murray and tell him to stop box kicking quite so much. We look so much better when we actually keep the ball.

Farrell at 12 kept the ABs in the game. His tackling isn't good enough. Same with first test. They are getting so many yards through him.

His pass to williams made Faletaus try though. His kicking kept the Lions in the game. He was only dropped once.

T'eo would never have made that pass. All players have their pros and cons. Farrell isn't a bad tackler, he's just not a monster.

It took 70 minutes for Farrell to have any impact. Teo would have made us yards and stopped the ABs gaining so many yards. I don't think we would have been chasing the game as much. The Lions made real hard work of that match.

Farrell is not the answer at 12 IMO. His kicking isn't even that good lately.

by GunsGermsV2 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:44 pm

EST wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I doubt we'll see te'o restored it worked pretty well today. I would like someone to get hold of Murray and tell him to stop box kicking quite so much. We look so much better when we actually keep the ball.

Farrell at 12 kept the ABs in the game. His tackling isn't good enough. Same with first test. They are getting so many yards through him.

Farrell was directly involved in the Faletau try twice - once going right where he and Sexton ran a loop, and then again on the way back with his long pass to Williams. And his solid goal kicking won us the game....not quite sure why you are so against him.

Because he is the main reason the ABs are winning the gain line battle so often. His passing is good but he doesn't offer as much as Teo in attack or anywhere else really.

by fa0019 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:44 pm

ebop wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
ebop wrote:It's great to see some gracious Lions supporters enjoying their win. It's really great.

Nice to see the odd gracious loser too.

Do remember that NZ still have the best rugby team around. Them losing once in a while doesn't actually threaten your masculinity
A lot of NZers can handle a loss much better than we used to given we've asserted our dominance at RWCs. A loss here and there happens. Some Lions supporters are melting down over the win. Probably a lot of pent up emotion finally seeping out. I get it. It's fine. Enjoy the win

I think NZ will be as shaken from this as much as they will grow from it. NZ can bounce back and will... but this is now a one off game. Teams generally get far closer to NZ in RWC's then most expect. Its not just pressure its that winning 8 out of 10 encounters is meaningless... what happens if tonight is one of those 2 in 10?

last year when IRE stunned them in 2016 they had a chance to get them back but there was nothing but pride at stake. No championship. Even at RWC's you have a chance to redeem yourself. For SH teams, they have 1 shot at the lions.

I think next week will be a lot closer than usual because pressure will be ramped up. NZ have it all to lose.... every tour in NZ have beaten the lions, all bar one. Beating the lions doesn't make you special in NZ. Losing to them will and that will add to the pressure. Not great when your kicker is dropping points from the tee.

SBW loss for next week is huge as well. Farrell probably could cope with Crotty tackling wise. Had SBW had a full 80 mins at Farrell sure he would have leaked ground and probably tries. Crotty you can deal with, you can't deal with a guy who is simply better than all others.

by GunsGermsV2 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:48 pm

Wasn't a great performance really from the lions. Mako was abysmal

by fa0019 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:48 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
EST wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I doubt we'll see te'o restored it worked pretty well today. I would like someone to get hold of Murray and tell him to stop box kicking quite so much. We look so much better when we actually keep the ball.

Farrell at 12 kept the ABs in the game. His tackling isn't good enough. Same with first test. They are getting so many yards through him.

Farrell was directly involved in the Faletau try twice - once going right where he and Sexton ran a loop, and then again on the way back with his long pass to Williams. And his solid goal kicking won us the game....not quite sure why you are so against him.

Because he is the main reason the ABs are winning the gain line battle so often. His passing is good but he doesn't offer as much as Teo in attack or anywhere else really.

In those conditions would T'eo has enabled the lions to score 2 tries? Not a chance. The conditions meant that ball would have been slow and players easier to cut down.
In the end NZ had enough chances with the ball and still didn't score.

by EST Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:48 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
EST wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I doubt we'll see te'o restored it worked pretty well today. I would like someone to get hold of Murray and tell him to stop box kicking quite so much. We look so much better when we actually keep the ball.

Farrell at 12 kept the ABs in the game. His tackling isn't good enough. Same with first test. They are getting so many yards through him.

Farrell was directly involved in the Faletau try twice - once going right where he and Sexton ran a loop, and then again on the way back with his long pass to Williams. And his solid goal kicking won us the game....not quite sure why you are so against him.

Because he is the main reason the ABs are winning the gain line battle so often. His passing is good but he doesn't offer as much as Teo in attack or anywhere else really.

Not that I dislike Teo, and I see what you are saying re: dominant gainline tackles. However, I doubt with Teo in the side we would have scored that Faletau try - I like having two playmakers, and when they got the ball they were very effective. Bear in mind next week will also likely be Crotty/ALB - nowhere near as physically imposing as SBW.

by 123456789 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:49 pm

fa0019 wrote:
ebop wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
ebop wrote:It's great to see some gracious Lions supporters enjoying their win. It's really great.

Nice to see the odd gracious loser too.

Do remember that NZ still have the best rugby team around. Them losing once in a while doesn't actually threaten your masculinity
A lot of NZers can handle a loss much better than we used to given we've asserted our dominance at RWCs. A loss here and there happens. Some Lions supporters are melting down over the win. Probably a lot of pent up emotion finally seeping out. I get it. It's fine. Enjoy the win

I think NZ will be as shaken from this as much as they will grow from it. NZ can bounce back and will... but this is now a one off game. Teams generally get far closer to NZ in RWC's then most expect. Its not just pressure its that winning 8 out of 10 encounters is meaningless... what happens if tonight is one of those 2 in 10?

last year when IRE stunned them in 2016 they had a chance to get them back but there was nothing but pride at stake. No championship. Even at RWC's you have a chance to redeem yourself. For SH teams, they have 1 shot at the lions.

I think next week will be a lot closer than usual because pressure will be ramped up. NZ have it all to lose.... every tour in NZ have beaten the lions, all bar one. Beating the lions doesn't make you special in NZ. Losing to them will and that will add to the pressure. Not great when your kicker is dropping points from the tee.

SBW loss for next week is huge as well. Farrell probably could cope with Crotty tackling wise. Had SBW had a full 80 mins at Farrell sure he would have leaked ground and probably tries. Crotty you can deal with, you can't deal with a guy who is simply better than all others.

It's worth noting that the pressure is equally on the Lions, there is not a single player in Britain or Ireland playing currently who has had one game ti win a series in New Zealand. There is only one game comparable to the deciding Lions test and that's the world cup final, many of the New Zealand team have played in one or two of them not a single player in the Lions side has. It's going to be an absolutely enormous contest that's for sure.

by fa0019 Sat 01 Jul 2017, 12:51 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Wasn't a great performance really from the lions. Mako was abysmal

Was a win though... only their 7th in 40. Sometimes all these players need is a win to put belief in these players hearts. A lot of boys out there hadn't ever beaten NZ and none of them had beaten NZ in NZ.

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