Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

Director of Rugby Les Kiss  
Head Coach Jono Gibbes  
Assistant Coach Dwayne Peel
Scrum Coach Aaron Dundon  
Skills Coach Niall Malone


Players In
John Cooney from Connacht
Schalk van der Merwe from Southern Kings
Jean Deysel from Sharks
David Busby promoted from Academy
Aaron Cairns promoted from Academy
Ross Kane promoted from Academy
Rob Lyttle promoted from Academy
Tommy O'Hagan promoted from Academy
Jack Owens promoted from Academy

Players Out
Franco van der Merwe to Cardiff Blues
Roger Wilson retired
Conor Joyce to Jersey Reds
Mark Best to Jersey Reds
Jonny Murphy to Rotherham Titans
Ruan Pienaar to Montpellier
John Donnan released
Lorcan Dow released
Ricky Lutton released
Stephen Mulholland released

Ulster Rugby 2017/18 Senior Playing Squad

Rodney Ah You (18 ULS, 3 IRE)
John Andrew (27 ULS)
Rory Best (198 ULS, 104 IRE)
Callum Black (128 ULS)
Tommy Bowe (150 ULS, 69 IRE)
Peter Browne (31 ULS)
David Busby (2 ULS)
Aaron Cairns (1 ULS)
Darren Cave (193 ULS, 11 IRE)
Marcell Coetzee (4 ULS, 28 SA)
John Cooney (0 ULS, 1 IRE)
Jean Deysel (0 ULS, 4 SA)
Robbie Diack (193 ULS, 2 IRE)
Craig Gilroy (149 ULS, 10 IRE)
Iain Henderson (74 ULS, 32 IRE)
Chris Henry (165 ULS, 24 IRE)
Wiehahn Herbst (54 ULS)
Rob Herring (120 ULS, 1 IRE)
Brett Herron (7 ULS)
Paddy Jackson (123 ULS, 25 IRE)
Ross Kane (11 ULS)
Louis Ludik (54 ULS)
Robert Lyttle (8 ULS)
Luke Marshall (104 ULS, 11 IRE)
Paul Marshall (195 ULS, 3 IRE)
Kyle McCall (36 ULS)
Stuart McCloskey (58 ULS, 1 IRE)
Johnny McPhillips
Peter Nelson (37 ULS)
Alan O'Connor (39 ULS)
Tommy O'Hagan
Stuart Olding (62 ULS, 4 IRE)
Jack Owens (1 ULS)
Callum Patterson
Jared Payne (78 ULS, 20 IRE)
Charles Piutau (23 ULS, 16 NZ)
Matthew Rea
Sean Reidy (58 ULS, 2 IRE)
Clive Ross (52 ULS)
David Shanahan (13 ULS)
Jonny Simpson (4 ULS)
Jacob Stockdale (24 ULS, 2 IRE)
Kieran Treadwell (21 ULS, 2 IRE)
Andrew Trimble (217 ULS, 70 IRE)
Schalk van der Merwe
Andrew Warwick (74 ULS)

rodders wrote:
Ulster have more to gain than Ireland from Bowe getting games there imo, as you'd imagine Ringrose is nailed on to start at 13 in the Autumn and Bundee Aki available soon.

Ringrose is out until the New Year

Aki hasn't exactly been setting the world alight recently, he doesn't seem to have the same spark about him

McCluskey 12, Henshaw 13 in the autumn then???

geoff999rugby wrote:But Bowe has looked poor defensively this year and his passing isn't the greatest.
In fact that has been the weakest part of our performances so far

Remind me again who our defence coach is ?

You are being very harsh on Cave who is far more than average (poor on Saturday though) and still a good defence organiser.
Marshall remains a better 12 but needs must and McCloskey is playing well

Marshall definitely better at 13 in my opinion. He just doesn't concentrate for 80 min, too often a handling error or defensive mistake comes from him at key times, which is a pit because he does so much well most of the time.

Personally I think the best combo is McCloskey and Marshall but I'd have Bowe at 13 ahead of Cave any day of the week.

Cave's defensive organisation involves pointing to others around him who to tackle while he misses his own, he wouldn't have a pro contract anywhere else.

the-goon wrote:McCluskey 12, Henshaw 13 in the autumn then???

Fiver says Henshaw and McFadden ...

So... does a good performance tonight mean all is forgiven? Last week was hard to take. You just can't imagine being in the reckoning come the business end in a season where you play like that against Zebre. But I (like a lot of Ulster fans) am an eternal optimist. Always looking forward to the friday night game. Always expectant.
I think last week was so hard to swallow because being unbeaten 5 from 5 and seeing some young guys being blooded and doing well... some of us, if even secretly, were getting a little hopeful. Back to earth with a bang? Or was it just a blip? And Ulster are actually a new side under new coaching, and we just have to wait and see how the season progresses?

This referee is woeful. He has no idea what is going on in the scrums, I don't think he has much concept of what is going on in general. He isn't favouring either team, he's just inept.

Brace's only positive is just that, he's inept in equal measure.

What a surprise. Plateau goes down in a heap and is suddenly perfectly ok. Lots of booing though. Good stuff

Shocking from Fitzgibbon.

This is a car crash of a game.

This is absolutely ludicrous....

I've never seen a referee without even a basic understanding of the breakdown before.  The scrum you can understand, it's a lottery with a lot of referees.  Brace's approach was basically that you either win the turnover or get penalised for any one of not rolling away, not releasing or being off your feet.  I'm not sure he actually gave a defending team the penalty once for the ball carrier not releasing.

Also, Peter Fitzgibbon determining the shoulder to Piutau's face as an "attempt to charge down" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.  Especially when one bears in mind the emphasis on foul play around concussions these days.

Didn't see the match but there is a bit mixed feelings about Fitzgibbon's attempted charge down. Anyone out there have a link to the incident?

Just seen the highlights on the Beeb. In real time it does not look too bad but when slowed down I believe that Fitzgibbon did leave his shoulder in. Difficult to tell if it was a penalty or sending off, I would not want to make that call myself.

Great try from Stockdale though, absolute class.

It's been at least a yellow card on every occasion that I've seen that happen but when you put muppets in charge of a game that's what happens. Thankfully Charles is a hard-nut and the officials are left to look like twits.

Better but some causes for worry.

Our front row was poor and second best.
Noticeable that our lineout stats improve when Andrew throws
Deysel was very poor - again.

Treadwell put in his first decent performance of the season
Henderson was key.
The backs had a much better balance than last week

For next week I'd play Timoney for Deysel and Andrew for Herring - don't think either change will occur though.

In the end the difference between the teams was one piece of absolute class from Stockdale and Piatau

..and Brace is an absolute joke of a referee - totally clueless.
Agree re the Piatau incident - only an absolute muppet could ignore that

https://youtu.be/EuQ5A7B40cQ

One example.
Same act, different outcome. Should Piutau have to be unconcious for that to be a penalty last night?

Anyway, it did seem to switch Ulster into angry mode with help from the rightly incensed crowd who've not booed a ref like that since Payne was sent off against Saracens for conversely being on the receiving end of a flying backside to the head.

I just watched this game over a cooked breakfast. Whilst I enjoyed the intensity, for me Andrew Brace really spoiled that game. He should never have to buy a pint in Belfast again after the way he allowed Ulster to do what ever they wanted. I would be very aggrieved if I were a Connacht fan.

But hey ho, we all know how rubbish he is.

Always the tw@t LD and you wonder why forum members pick on you. Peurile acts bring out the peurile in everyone it seems. Now go suck on another sausage you childish little troll.

To think I stood up for the pr1ck.

What's that all about, I am only pointing out how rubbish the ref was last night, it was not Ulster's fault he was being a homer ref.

Wow, what a silly rant.

Also, and I know you will explode again over this, but for a class player Piatau is a right pleb. He went from being knocked out sparko and spread eagled one minute, to being a world class rugby player cutting through the defence with ease the next, what is that all about ?

'He should never have to buy a pint in Belfast again after the way he allowed Ulster to do what ever they wanted. I would be very aggrieved if I were a Connacht fan'.

You come onto an Ulster thread spouting that and then play the timid little victim?
I really am starting to think you're about 12.

I felt that CJ's red card against SA was harsh and I honestly cannot see much difference between that and Fitzgibbon's attempt last night to be honest.

What is very concerning is that Piatau received lengthy treatment and the way the physio held him, it was if he had a head injury. Two things arise from this :

1, if they Ulster physio/medic felt he needed that lengthy treatment then surely Piatau should have been taken off for an HIA? Not sure if he was as didn't see the game.

2, if he wasn't taken off for HIA and was up and about and seemingly unaffected by the knock, was there an element of simulation involved by Piatau?

Didn't see what happened straight after Billy but I suspect, as it looks, the medical team were on it immediately and kept him there to make sure he was OK. I don't think Charley boy is into simulations but who's to say GG doesn't get involved in a little gamesmanship

P.S. absolutely agree re: the CJ incident.
P.P.S. What did you think of Cooney v Marmion. Do we work this on points?

Nope, didn't see what happened straight after Pete.

As I have not seen the full game, cant really judge but I have the feeling ye will be calling him Ruan Cooney before long

LordDowlais wrote:I just watched this game over a cooked breakfast. Whilst I enjoyed the intensity, for me Andrew Brace really spoiled that game. He should never have to buy a pint in Belfast again after the way he allowed Ulster to do what ever they wanted. I would be very aggrieved if I were a Connacht fan.

But hey ho, we all know how rubbish he is.

Tell us more about this cooked breakfast, LD.

Pete330v2 wrote:'He should never have to buy a pint in Belfast again after the way he allowed Ulster to do what ever they wanted. I would be very aggrieved if I were a Connacht fan'.

You come onto an Ulster thread spouting that and then play the timid little victim?
I really am starting to think you're about 12.

That has been my impression also .

For your information LD Brace was equally useless for both teams - your small minded rant is pathetic.

As to Piatau the elbow hit him on the jaw.
The medical boys came on and checked him out.
Established nothing broken just painful.

As such he was able to get up and play on even with a sore jaw.
Also why he did not have an HIA because there it was only the jaw.

Don Alfonso wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I just watched this game over a cooked breakfast. Whilst I enjoyed the intensity, for me Andrew Brace really spoiled that game. He should never have to buy a pint in Belfast again after the way he allowed Ulster to do what ever they wanted. I would be very aggrieved if I were a Connacht fan.

But hey ho, we all know how rubbish he is.

Tell us more about this cooked breakfast, LD.

His mummy cut it up into small pieces and fed it to him with a spoon, just after she put his bib on

geoff999rugby wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I just watched this game over a cooked breakfast. Whilst I enjoyed the intensity, for me Andrew Brace really spoiled that game. He should never have to buy a pint in Belfast again after the way he allowed Ulster to do what ever they wanted. I would be very aggrieved if I were a Connacht fan.

But hey ho, we all know how rubbish he is.

Tell us more about this cooked breakfast, LD.

His mummy cut it up into small pieces and fed it to him with a spoon, just after she put his bib on  

I reckon that with the amount of BS he spouts his mushrooms are magic!

Nice one boys. Top banter.

To let you know, my mother did not cook my grub, the misses did.

I will ask about the origins of the mushrooms, although I did not have any, but I am a little bit afraid to question the other half's cooking, I will get a bigger bollocking than what pete330v2 gave me a few posts up.

Going to watch the other Irish game his morning, I heard it was a belter.

geoff999rugby wrote:

That has been my impression also .

For your information LD Brace was equally useless for both teams - your small minded rant is pathetic.

As to Piatau the elbow hit him on the jaw.
The medical boys came on and checked him out.
Established nothing broken just painful.

As such he was able to get up and play on even with a sore jaw.
Also why he did not have an HIA because there it was only the jaw.

I was led to believe (correct me if I am wrong) that any hit to the head that led to treatment (lengthy as it was) was a requirement for an HIA for player safety.
So it was either :

Ulster failed in the HIA protocols (I will happily stand corrected)
Piatau is simply 1 hard nut
Piatau used simulation to try and win a penalty and have a fellow pro carded

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:What a surprise. Plateau goes down in a heap and is suddenly perfectly ok. Lots of booing though. Good stuff

I only just spotted this one. Classic!!

Billy,

If, at any point during a match, a player is concussed or has suspected concussion, that player must be immediately and permanently removed from the field of play. This is known as “Recognise and Remove”.

Apparently this is the protocol.

Fair enough Pete, I was under the impression that any player that required on field treatment for a head knock (knocks to the jaw also cause concussion) was required to submit to an HIA.

eirebilly wrote:Piatau used simulation to try and win a penalty and have a fellow pro carded

Not sure how the BBC edited the highlights but it was clear that Steve Crosbie hit Piutau late with his shoulder, with no 'simulation' involved and the medical staff were absolutely right to make sure Charles had no neck damage.

That type of challenge - following through on the kicker to ensure he can't chase his own kick is happening more and more and it's about time the officials woke up to the danger.

The Great Aukster wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Piatau used simulation to try and win a penalty and have a fellow pro carded

Not sure how the BBC edited the highlights but it was clear that Steve Crosbie hit Piutau late with his shoulder, with no 'simulation' involved and the medical staff were absolutely right to make sure Charles had no neck damage.

That type of challenge - following through on the kicker to ensure he can't chase his own kick is happening more and more and it's about time the officials woke up to the danger.

I suggested simulation due to the fact that he was treated for some time then seemingly had no issues afterwards. I also said that he could be just a hard nut.

eirebilly wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Piatau used simulation to try and win a penalty and have a fellow pro carded

Not sure how the BBC edited the highlights but it was clear that Steve Crosbie hit Piutau late with his shoulder, with no 'simulation' involved and the medical staff were absolutely right to make sure Charles had no neck damage.

That type of challenge - following through on the kicker to ensure he can't chase his own kick is happening more and more and it's about time the officials woke up to the danger.

I suggested simulation due to the fact that he was treated for some time then seemingly had no issues afterwards. I also said that he could be just a hard nut.

From what I know of him he would look on any act of simulation on a rugby field as that of a small and timid girl.
You're lucky he's a nice guy Billy or Mr Plateau would be out to get ya

Piatau does not scare me Pete, I am one of the hardest feckers out there... Well behind this keyboard that is

eirebilly wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Piatau used simulation to try and win a penalty and have a fellow pro carded

Not sure how the BBC edited the highlights but it was clear that Steve Crosbie hit Piutau late with his shoulder, with no 'simulation' involved and the medical staff were absolutely right to make sure Charles had no neck damage.

That type of challenge - following through on the kicker to ensure he can't chase his own kick is happening more and more and it's about time the officials woke up to the danger.

I suggested simulation due to the fact that he was treated for some time then seemingly had no issues afterwards. I also said that he could be just a hard nut.

So if a player goes through all the checks done by a diligent medical team after a late hard hit and comes through them to continue play - he is simulating? Potential neck injuries take time to check out as has been seen time and time again - nothing to do with how hard his nut is.

The Great Aukster wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Piatau used simulation to try and win a penalty and have a fellow pro carded

Not sure how the BBC edited the highlights but it was clear that Steve Crosbie hit Piutau late with his shoulder, with no 'simulation' involved and the medical staff were absolutely right to make sure Charles had no neck damage.

That type of challenge - following through on the kicker to ensure he can't chase his own kick is happening more and more and it's about time the officials woke up to the danger.

I suggested simulation due to the fact that he was treated for some time then seemingly had no issues afterwards. I also said that he could be just a hard nut.

So if a player goes through all the checks done by a diligent medical team after a late hard hit and comes through them to continue play - he is simulating? Potential neck injuries take time to check out as has been seen time and time again - nothing to do with how hard his nut is.

Did he have an HIA Aukster? Look I know what you are trying to do and I wont bite, sorry for that, best go fishing for another one

eirebilly wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Piatau used simulation to try and win a penalty and have a fellow pro carded

Not sure how the BBC edited the highlights but it was clear that Steve Crosbie hit Piutau late with his shoulder, with no 'simulation' involved and the medical staff were absolutely right to make sure Charles had no neck damage.

That type of challenge - following through on the kicker to ensure he can't chase his own kick is happening more and more and it's about time the officials woke up to the danger.

I suggested simulation due to the fact that he was treated for some time then seemingly had no issues afterwards. I also said that he could be just a hard nut.

So if a player goes through all the checks done by a diligent medical team after a late hard hit and comes through them to continue play - he is simulating? Potential neck injuries take time to check out as has been seen time and time again - nothing to do with how hard his nut is.

Did he have an HIA Aukster? Look I know what you are trying to do and I wont bite, sorry for that, best go fishing for another one

No conspiracy theory here, just debating the logic of the point

It is very simple

He took a knock to the jaw and as every player is told, in that situation, wait for a medical check and don't play on.

That medical check took place and it was determined he has fit to continue, so he did.
It doesn't mean it wasn't hurting we he started playing again.

So to answer the questions above

Ulster failed in the HIA protocols (I will happily stand corrected) - No they didn't as has been explained
Piatau is simply 1 hard nut - Top marks this is the correct answer
Piatau used simulation to try and win a penalty and have a fellow pro carded - no he didn't he was following standard protocols when receiving a hit in the head area

geoff999rugby wrote:It is very simple



So to answer the questions above

1 : Ulster failed in the HIA protocols (I will happily stand corrected) - No they didn't as has been explained

2 : Piatau is simply 1 hard nut - Top marks this is the correct answer

3 : Piatau used simulation to try and win a penalty and have a fellow pro carded - no he didn't he was following standard protocols when receiving a hit in the head area

1 : Still not 100% convinced the explained law is correct as I had another understanding of the laws. Will dig into them again and re-read them.

2 : Fair play to the lad then, it looked like some knock he received, not sure if I would be standing up next week after a hit like that.

3 : Again, not 100% convinced by law but if I am wrong (probably am) then he showed a great deal of self awareness to wait for medical help instead of jumping up an playing on as if he wasn't hurt.

As for Aukster, I was not born yesterday. I know exactly what you are trying to do and I am pretty fed up with the way you do this. It happens on a lot of threads, I am simply posing a question as to how I saw it.

In other news, posters on here wailing that we didn't bring Chris Farrell back, from what I can see, are wide of the mark. McCloskey and Marshall both look better at the moment.

Don Alfonso wrote:In other news, posters on here wailing that we didn't bring Chris Farrell back, from what I can see, are wide of the mark. McCloskey and Marshall both look better at the moment.

As I said on the Munster thread, Farrell is a big unit but his temperament is very fragile. I think he may even be cited and see a ban for his late, no arms challenge on Henshaw.

He will break the line a few times but his handling skills (passing), temperament and defence need a lot of improving.

Farrell is lauded for his passing by none other than Ronan O'Gara in the ST today. Barnes and Horgan both said that Earls overran the supporting line (as he often does) so no blame for Farrell's pass there.

Totally agree Don, Ulster have a player in McCloskey who has Farrell's strength, but also has a kicking and off-loading game that is far more mature. Equally at 13 Marshall plays with his head when sizing up the defence required. Maybe Chris can develop those skills but they need to be developed because they aren't there at present.

Guys, this is well worth a read. It's an article on Charles Piutau.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=11930947&ref=twitter

Thanks for that AD - a good insight into Charles.

Anyone catch the Wasps game yesterday? Not sure whether we should be confident or terrified for Friday

marty2086 wrote:Anyone catch the Wasps game yesterday? Not sure whether we should be confident or terrified for Friday  

They've not been going well and have been hit by injuries pretty badly. Then again we're missing a couple of game changers in Coetzee and Best.
If we can raise the intensity from the first minute to the 80th then we can take them. If we let them then get any kind of head start then we're doomed. They aren't exactly buzzing with confidence and we seem to be able to raise or lower our game depending on how the level of the opposition is perceived hence beating the Scarlets but losing to Zebre. I hope the whole squad realizes that although Wasps may be languishing down at the bottom end of the Geoff it means nothing, they're still a good outfit.

Ulster Academy players playing club rugby last weekend:

Prop
Eric O'Sullivan (Ulster/Banbdridge) - started at 1.
Peter Cooper (Ulster/Malone) - started at 3, 3 tries.
Tom O'Toole (Ulster/Banbridge) - bench.

Hooker
Adam McBurney (Ulster/Ballymena) - started at 2.
Zack McCall (Ulster/Ballynahinch) - started at 2.

Second Row
Jack Regan (Ulster/Ballynahinch) - started at 5.
Matthew Dalton (Ulster/Malone) - started at 4, 1 try.
John McCusker (Ulster/Rainey OB) - started at 5.

Backrow
Joe Dunleavy (Ulster/Malone) - started at 6.
Aaron Hall Ulster/Ballynahinch) - started at 6.

Scrumhalf
Aaron Cairns (Ulster/Ballynahinch) - started at 9, 1 try.

Outhalf
Johnny McPhillips (Ulster/Ballynahinch) - started at 10, 4 cons, 2 pens.
Michael Lowry( Ulster/Banbridge) - started at 10.

Ross Kane also appears to be back from injury, as is Rob Lyttle.

Cooper's three tries were part of Malone scoring 70-odd points against Galwegians. Jack Owens also played for them - is he in the Ulster set-up?