Pro14: Edinburgh Rugby vs Dragons Fri 8/09

First topic message reminder :


Last time out:
Edinburgh 24 - 20 Dragons

Head to Head
Dragons -  Edinburgh
31 Played 31
15 Wins 15
15 Losses 15
1 Draws 1
62 Tries 67


This Season
Edinburgh - Dragons
Who knows, certainly not the Pro14 Website apparently.

Teams
Edinburgh
15. Blair Kinghorn (43)



14. Damien Hoyland (48)

13. Chris Dean (43)

12. Robbie Fruean *

11. Jason Harries (1)



10. Duncan Weir (21)

9. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (83)



1. Michele Rizzo (1)

2. Stuart McInally (101)

3. WP Nel (104)

4. Ben Toolis (70)

5. Grant Gilchrist (99)

6. Jamie Ritchie (31)

7. Hamish Watson (72)

8. Magnus Bradbury CAPTAIN (31)


Replacements

16. Ross Ford (176)

17. Darryl Marfo (1)

18. Simon Berghan (32)

19. Fraser McKenzie (80)

20. Cornell du Preez (80)

21. Nathan Fowles (34)

22. Jason Tovey (24)

23. Junior Rasolea (14)

RDW_Scotland wrote:

munkian wrote:Good win Embra, TMO decision aside but thats still an ongoing league issue.

I must say though BBC Alba is most biased commentary on the planet ! They don't even pretend to be neutral, every thing was 'we' must do this and 'we can still win'. Very poor from a tax payers funded channel.

Can you really claim that BBC Wales and BBC Northern Ireland are any different?

Or Jiffy's commentary whenever he's covering a Wales game??

Well he doesn't refer to Welsh teams as we and us.

I have to say, I keep looking at that picture of the foot in touch posted above on the twitter link and I can't see any 'green' between the players foot and the line. Surely if he wasn't touching the line then we'd see some gap, some green grass between the foot and the line? So I can see why it was given out, personally.

Anyway, good win Edinburgh. I think the Dragons nearly try gave you a rocket up the backside and you went up a gear after that and beat us easily in the end. We were turned over a gazzillion times from memory. You just can't compete at this leave, or any level really, playing like that. It's a symptom of a poor set of forwards but is also the thing you absolutely must not do when you're a team that struggles to compete. Keeping possession more must be priority for us. Another long, miserable season beckons

Also Alan Dell - an Edinburgh player - was the summariser so of course he is going to say we!

The regional BBC broadcasters exist to cover regional issues - I really don't see what the problem is here or why they're meant to be neutral. And as I said you can hardly claim the others are neutral in the slightest. And what's wrong with an Edinburgh player referring to the team as 'we' given he is providing a player's perspective to the game?

Watched the game late last night. Thought the TMO decision was harsh but could see why he gave it. Personally I would not have called it. The Weir "stamping" by contrast was at most a penalty if it even deserved the TMO. The yellow was overkill. In the old days Dragons would have had a try as would have Edinburgh.

Edinburgh's pack were not as cohesive as they were against the Blues and still, as a whole, played better than most games last season.
Watson and Hoyland both had solid showings.
Kinghorn is electric every time he touches the ball.
Ras looked better this week than last. Fruean, Bennett, Dean, Burleigh and Ras is looking like a good depth chart in the centres. Dean in particular has developed excellently during pre-season
The locks were solid and both flew up to tackle behind the game line but due to the poor showing at the line-out, it is hard to assess. The hooker's throwing was off so will give them a pass. McKenzie showed a bit more than I have seen from him last season. Position of strength at the moment.

SHC was mixed in my mind. Decent support line for the try. Worked hard in defense. Controlled the game well. Some of his passing was poor and lacked a bit of speed. Thankfully that can be fixed over the course of the season. The mental side of his game is much improved. Fowles looked better this week than last. I do worry with Edinburgh's game plan that Kennedy and Fowles are the wrong type of 9's.

Bradbury could have done better and Gilchrist's rucking when defending needs work
McInally had a mare and will need to be dropped for Treviso. Not a bad game to put in a young hooker to get experience and I imagine McInally will be back for the game against Leinster
Weir had no need to put his feet on the Dragons player (who probably would have got a yellow as there was no attempt to roll when Edinburgh were on the front foot/5m line) and it almost cost Edinburgh the bonus point. Kicking is still mixed. Worried that Cockers does not trust Tovey for 20 minutes but Weir made most of his errors in the first half and he actually did pretty well in the second.

RDW_Scotland wrote:The regional BBC broadcasters exist to cover regional issues - I really don't see what the problem is here or why they're meant to be neutral. And as I said you can hardly claim the others are neutral in the slightest. And what's wrong with an Edinburgh player referring to the team as 'we' given he is providing a player's perspective to the game?

It's wrong on so many levels!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mysv

Well done the Luvvies

I thought, in the first half it was fairly even but the second half was all one way traffic.
So, two ticks on the Sean Lineen Teambuilding for Dummies jobsheet.

Become hard (er) to beat. Done
Win when not playing your best. Done

Only a couple more boxes to tick then you can move on to the Toonie Tome; Breathtaking Rugby For Champions In Waiting.

Griff wrote:I have to say, I keep looking at that picture of the foot in touch posted above on the twitter link and I can't see any 'green' between the players foot and the line. Surely if he wasn't touching the line then we'd see some gap, some green grass between the foot and the line? So I can see why it was given out, personally.

Anyway, good win Edinburgh. I think the Dragons nearly try gave you a rocket up the backside and you went up a gear after that and beat us easily in the end. We were turned over a gazzillion times from memory. You just can't compete at this leave, or any level really, playing like that. It's a symptom of a poor set of forwards but is also the thing you absolutely must not do when you're a team that struggles to compete. Keeping possession more must be priority for us. Another long, miserable season beckons

There's no answer unless we can go shopping. Throwing in a bunch of under 23's in the hope that some of them can cut it at this level is throwing sh1te at a wall. Just hope that some of the current promising crop escape the fate of so many talented young players at the Dragons whose development stalls because they're exposed too much too early.

Brok (and not this loosehead rubbish) and Landman are back up players at best, Dee is good, we have no loosehead proper at all, Hill/Screech are OK regional squad fodder pros but no more, second row cupboard is bare as hell. Everyone else is too young or too sh1t. No number 8 in the squad. There's why we can't win contact and keep the ball at the breakdown, and why anything we try is fecked before it starts.

Jeezo whinging about the TMO - 100% correct decision - his heel clearly touched the line as you can see in that twitter post. Get over it. As for biased commentating - its no worse that Jiffy is it?

Great win from Edinburgh. Well deserved and showed a bit of guts even if we nearly let them back in. cockers making a difference?

TJ wrote:Jeezo  whinging about the TMO - 100% correct decision - his heel clearly touched the line as you can see in that twitter post.  Get over it.  As for biased commentating - its no worse that Jiffy is it?

Great win from Edinburgh.  Well deserved and showed a bit of guts even if we nearly let them back in.  cockers making a difference?

Clearly. If you're Scottish.

TJ wrote:Jeezo  whinging about the TMO - 100% correct decision - his heel clearly touched the line as you can see in that twitter post.  Get over it.  As for biased commentating - its no worse that Jiffy is it?

You can clearly see his heel touched the line. 100% correct decision - not even a sniff of doubt. Do welsh teams ever get beaten by better teams or is it always the officials fault?

TJ wrote:You can clearly see his heel touched the line.  100% correct decision - not even a sniff of doubt.  Do welsh teams ever get beaten by better teams or is it always the officials fault?

You do know we put up with almost 10 years of ref-moaning from the Scottish right? Can you think of the annual fixture I'm referring to?

He was out, it was right in front of me at the game. I was staggered that the touch judge didn't see it.

God forbid that people have a discussion on a rugby forum. Just PM us next time TJ, so we can conform to your opinion.

Chalk on the boots doesn't prove much, as it could've happened earlier in the game, especially given Amos went foot in touch earlier (I'm sure). It's a very close call. Nobody is saying it's why we lost regardless. Pretty unnecessary attack, particularly with the generalising. I am sure I can find plenty of examples of Scottish supporters doing similar. I'd imagine a Joubert thread might be a place to start.

Yes I certainly don't think that the perfectly good try being called back and disallowed by the SRU employee effected the end result. The score perhaps, but not the result. It was an SA ref in charge so why not have a SA TMO too, someone decent like Craig Joubert .

TJ wrote:You can clearly see his heel touched the line.  100% correct decision - not even a sniff of doubt.  Do welsh teams ever get beaten by better teams or is it always the officials fault?

It's easier to accept when it's not an employee of the owners of the opposition making the 100% correct decisions

I think RDW has the ratings about right. Dean has been particularly good this season and has played rugby I didn't think him capable of. Weir on the other hand remains predictably bad. His goal kicking is ok but his general game management goes from average to dreadful. Bradbury hasn't hit is top game yet, and he'll need to with Ashe playing so well for the Weegies.

Just on the Scotland dimension, Cockerill made it clear that he didn't give a stuff about Scotland in his pre-match interview, and confirmed that he held the same view about England when at Leicester. Quite right. Get the club right and everything else will follow.

I thought that Dragons played well actually and fought hard.

Edinburgh cannot seem to control a game for longer than 10 minutes but at last we have some depth and quality in the forwards now. Doesn't matter if it was enforced by injury - it's there. Cannot bloody wait for Tovey to get back - Edinburgh will actually be able to attack consistently and with structure rather than waiting for Weir to go off his feet yet again and throw wild intercepts at least one game in two.

Onwards and ever sideways and all that. Very pleased.

BigGee wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Law needs changed. Unless you can see the foot in touch then the try should stand.

Then all marginal calls have to go that way. Every time the ball crosses the line it has to be a try.

It is the downside of TMO, sometimes it goes against you when you can't be absolutely sure about a call. On balance though, it is a better system than that which proceeded it.

Nah Gee it would be the reverse. To call a foot in touch you should have to see the foot hitting the line, not just assume that as it's really really close to the line then it must have touched.

To call a try then you need to see the ball touching the line.

Evidence is exactly that! It needs to be a fact. Seeing the foot hitting the line is evidence that the foot was in touch. Seeing a foot being close to the line but not seeing it touch the line isn't.

I can fully understand why the Dragons fans are not happy with the call as it came from a Scottish TMO and it looked a bit dodgy to me. The instruction should have been for the ref on the pitch to review the footage and then let him make the call!

tigertattie wrote:

BigGee wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Law needs changed. Unless you can see the foot in touch then the try should stand.

Then all marginal calls have to go that way. Every time the ball crosses the line it has to be a try.

It is the downside of TMO, sometimes it goes against you when you can't be absolutely sure about a call. On balance though, it is a better system than that which proceeded it.

Nah Gee it would be the reverse. To call a foot in touch you should have to see the foot hitting the line, not just assume that as it's really really close to the line then it must have touched.

To call a try then you need to see the ball touching the line.

Evidence is exactly that! It needs to be a fact. Seeing the foot hitting the line is evidence that the foot was in touch. Seeing a foot being close to the line but not seeing it touch the line isn't.

I can fully understand why the Dragons fans are not happy with the call as it came from a Scottish TMO and it looked a bit dodgy to me. The instruction should have been for the ref on the pitch to review the footage and then let him make the call!

I think part of the problem is the big screen isn't overly accessible for the ref at Myreside - he made his own decision for Weir's yellow but left the TMO to it for the try call. Communication between the two was poor which didn't help matters - there was no discussion between the ref and the TMO really.

tigertattie wrote:

BigGee wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Law needs changed. Unless you can see the foot in touch then the try should stand.

Then all marginal calls have to go that way. Every time the ball crosses the line it has to be a try.

It is the downside of TMO, sometimes it goes against you when you can't be absolutely sure about a call. On balance though, it is a better system than that which proceeded it.

Nah Gee it would be the reverse. To call a foot in touch you should have to see the foot hitting the line, not just assume that as it's really really close to the line then it must have touched.

To call a try then you need to see the ball touching the line.

Evidence is exactly that! It needs to be a fact. Seeing the foot hitting the line is evidence that the foot was in touch. Seeing a foot being close to the line but not seeing it touch the line isn't.

I can fully understand why the Dragons fans are not happy with the call as it came from a Scottish TMO and it looked a bit dodgy to me. The instruction should have been for the ref on the pitch to review the footage and then let him make the call!

For every TJ there is also a sensible fan like you tattie. #consistency

Oh grow up.  Thats sensible discussion.  perfectly reasonable.  this however is maoning and ridiculous

mikey_dragon wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:https://twitter.com/dragonsoffic_sc/status/906246319219625984

Leaves a very bad taste that.

If that's out, the touchjudge should get sacked as he didn't call it.

If it happened to a Scottish team they'd be moaning for weeks. I agree that TMO should be sacked though.

mikey_dragon wrote:BS call from the Scottish TMO.

mikey_dragon wrote:

You can even see it's a try. It came at a crucial moment as we had all the momentum at that point. Momentum killed by someone who can only be described as a cheat.

so calling officals cheats and liars and stating they should be sacked is acceptable - have you ever tried listening to yourselves - endless whinging about refs decisions 'cos your one eye is shut.

Yes neutral TMOs and all officials would be good and right - however thats clearly the correct decision with no doubt at all. Unlucky it was spotted but it was. His foot clearly touches the line

TJ wrote:so calling officals cheats and liars and stating they should be sacked is acceptable - have you ever tried listening to yourselves - endless whinging about refs decisions 'cos your one eye is shut.

If you can't do your job in any career you get sacked it's that simple, like the calls for Jouberts head - ring any bells? I said the Scottish TMO can only be described as a cheat for ruling out a good try against his home team - quite a plausible explanation I think. As I've also said Wales fans put up with almost 10 years of whinging each time their team beat Scotland though not from all fans as I'm not a generalising old fool. You must be the biggest whinger on here TJ and it's got beyond the point where it's cringeworthy now.

Unless they've changed the laws, on the line is over the line. Even if he glances it, he's in touch.

Mickey - find one post from me whinging about refs - go on.  Put up or shut up.

I think you will find on the Joubert call I said something like - bad decision but I can see why he made it, our mistake was before that - Aus should not have been in a position to score from a pen we fluffed a restart then a lineout

TJ wrote:Mickey - find one post from me whinging about refs - go on.  Put up or shut up.

You've got a history of whinging at the WELSH. Don't keep on you just sound like a big kid upset because people won't conform to his blinkered view

I have no history of whinging about the welsh - just a hatred of fans of any nationality wgho blame refs continuously
Blocked.

As fun as this is I'm going to lock the thread as we're not getting anywhere.