Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

First topic message reminder :

This is a farce, I know I will get ripped apart for this, but it is becoming a joke, what I have just seen in this first half between Leinster and Cardiff is a joke. How is Isa Nacewa still on the field, then going down like he has just been shot to milk a pen on half time. FFS

Also, do not get me started with the scrum, the young Cardiff boy Kieron Assirati is doing a number on Cain Healy yet the ref is letting Cain Healy get away with murder.

2017, Pro14, nothing changes.

Anyway, onto the second half.

Oh, just to edit, I forgot to mention Kearnys shoulder tackle when Cardiff were breaking through that was left unpunished by both Brace and Fitzgibbon. Whate a joke.

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Yes you are, deliberately changing what people say to fit your argument

Firstly, I am not arguing with anyone, it's seems that it is you who is intent on causing an argument.

Secondly, I have not changed anything, I have quoted you word for word.

Bless, you really are that slow

I meant you were putting forward an argument, as in your version

I also never said me, as previously stated you changed what billy said to fit your own argument little fairytale

Nap time I think for you LD

You see Marty, you keep dishing out these insults, instead of debating like an adult. I do not think it's me who needs a nap.

The high tackle was high, and very dangerous, and Nacewa was not in control. He should have seen red. I would suggest that it was only for Cuthbert getting straight back up instead of rolling around like Nacewa did when he came back on and milked a penalty just before half time, that saved him from seeing a red card.

But lets not forget, both the ref and TMO looked at it, and decided it was a yellow, which for me is more of a worry.

If it was the other way around you can bet your mortgage that the crowd would have been baying for blood, and Isa Nacewa would have been lying on the floor as if he had been shot.

Also, have you had a chance to look at that other incident yet ?

Sean Edwards got red carded for the same offence back in the day, except that was in Rugby League.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Yes you are, deliberately changing what people say to fit your argument

Firstly, I am not arguing with anyone, it's seems that it is you who is intent on causing an argument.

Secondly, I have not changed anything, I have quoted you word for word.

Bless, you really are that slow

I meant you were putting forward an argument, as in your version

I also never said me, as previously stated you changed what billy said to fit your own argument little fairytale

Nap time I think for you LD

You see Marty, you keep dishing out these insults, instead of debating like an adult. I do not think it's me who needs a nap.

The high tackle was high, and very dangerous, and Nacewa was not in control. He should have seen red. I would suggest that it was only for Cuthbert getting straight back up instead of rolling around like Nacewa did when he came back on and milked a penalty just before half time, that saved him from seeing a red card.

But lets not forget, both the ref and TMO looked at it, and decided it was a yellow, which for me is more of a worry.

If it was the other way around you can bet your mortgage that the crowd would have been baying for blood, and Isa Nacewa would have been lying on the floor as if he had been shot.

Also, have you had a chance to look at that other incident yet ?

Debate like an adult?

You editorialise and make up that Nacewa left his feet to make the tackles that's not true, you changed billys words to make out that he agreed with you so please don't try lecturing me on debating like an adult since I have challenged your points already

Its not a worry the ref and TMO decided was a yellow especially when WR cite the below tackle by Fritz Lee as a textbook yellow card so like a proper adult let me add, suck on that!!


I've no doubt the RDS crowd would have called for a red if it was reversed but that doesn't mean they are right

I've no idea what the other incident is

marty2086 wrote:Its not a worry the ref and TMO decided was a yellow especially when WR cite the below tackle by Fritz Lee as a textbook yellow card so like a proper adult let me add, suck on that!!

Are you an adult ? It's a genuine question, as you don't seem to be able to debate like one.

Isa Nacewa left his feet as he jumped towards Cuthbert with his arm out stretched and made contact with the throat, this is all clearly visible, why you continue to deny this is beyond me.

marty2086 wrote:I've no idea what the other incident is

As I said earlier, how convenient.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Its not a worry the ref and TMO decided was a yellow especially when WR cite the below tackle by Fritz Lee as a textbook yellow card so like a proper adult let me add, suck on that!!

Are you an adult ? It's a genuine question, as you don't seem to be able to debate like one.

Isa Nacewa left his feet as he jumped towards Cuthbert with his arm out stretched and made contact with the throat, this is all clearly visible, why you continue to deny this is beyond me.

I live in reality not your made up world

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:I've no idea what the other incident is

As I said earlier, how convenient.

Or maybe it's something else you've made up

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Yes you are, deliberately changing what people say to fit your argument

Firstly, I am not arguing with anyone, it's seems that it is you who is intent on causing an argument.

Secondly, I have not changed anything, I have quoted you word for word.

Bless, you really are that slow

I meant you were putting forward an argument, as in your version

I also never said me, as previously stated you changed what billy said to fit your own argument little fairytale

Nap time I think for you LD

You see Marty, you keep dishing out these insults, instead of debating like an adult. I do not think it's me who needs a nap.

The high tackle was high, and very dangerous, and Nacewa was not in control. He should have seen red. I would suggest that it was only for Cuthbert getting straight back up instead of rolling around like Nacewa did when he came back on and milked a penalty just before half time, that saved him from seeing a red card.

But lets not forget, both the ref and TMO looked at it, and decided it was a yellow, which for me is more of a worry.

If it was the other way around you can bet your mortgage that the crowd would have been baying for blood, and Isa Nacewa would have been lying on the floor as if he had been shot.

Also, have you had a chance to look at that other incident yet ?

Debate like an adult?

You editorialise and make up that Nacewa left his feet to make the tackles that's not true, you changed billys words to make out that he agreed with you so please don't try lecturing me on debating like an adult since I have challenged your points already

Its not a worry the ref and TMO decided was a yellow especially when WR cite the below tackle by Fritz Lee as a textbook yellow card so like a proper adult let me add, suck on that!!


I've no doubt the RDS crowd would have called for a red if it was reversed but that doesn't mean they are right

I've no idea what the other incident is

Think both of you need to grow up and stop bickering like children....

On point though.. Marty, you say that its not true that Nacewa left his feet to make the tackler... Suggest you recheck that, if he didn't leave his feet, this is one hell of an optical illusion...



He definitely left his feet.. He knew he'd done wrong, he expected a card.. That was all obvious during the game. Cuthbert got straight up, and acknowledged it wasn't deliberate dirty play, again easily seen on the video. If Nacewa has seen red, no one could have disagreed. HOWEVER, I do think the yellow was a fair call. This is rugby not football... Its done, now lets move on.

However, I do think more should be done to try and get neutral officials in these games. I appreciate there's a big gap between refereeing standards between the unions involved. But I think the TMO should be neutral, and after all, in today's technical age, they done even have to be at the ground. So there is no reason why they cant make sure they have a neutral TMO. Some bad TMO calls this week, and some of the Italian TMO calls last season against Italian opposition was just so blatantly biased.

marty2086 wrote:I live in reality not your made up world

OK......

marty2086 wrote:Or maybe it's something else you've made up

It was a few minutes after the joke yellow for Isa Nacewa. Lee-Lo had made a break, he passed the ball and Kearny came in late with his shoulder, the ref and TMO looked at it and the ref decided that there was no foul play, and that the game should continue, I can see why you are choosing to ignore this as it does not suit your agenda.

No9 if you check back I said he left his feet after contact because of the momentum, that probably should have been foot though since he only had one foot on the ground

I agree it was a yellow, some people though are spouting their usual nonsense conspiracy theories, it was the same when Brace reffed Ulster last weekend, talking about him being biased to the Ulster side when he awarded a try to the Cheetahs without a review when there where clear reasons to do so.

marty2086 wrote:No9 if you check back I said he left his feet after contact because of the momentum, that probably should have been foot though since he only had one foot on the ground

OMG.

Well debated

marty2086 wrote:No9 if you check back I said he left his feet after contact because of the momentum, that probably should have been foot though since he only had one foot on the ground

I agree it was a yellow, some people though are spouting their usual nonsense conspiracy theories, it was the same when Brace reffed Ulster last weekend, talking about him being biased to the Ulster side when he awarded a try to the Cheetahs without a review when there where clear reasons to do so.

I'm not going to get involved in the churlish spat between you and LD, but you cant have this one... ("he left his feet after contact because of the momentum"). I saw that game, saw the incident, and Isa was in the air BEFORE the tackle.. I'll buy it was an instinctive reaction, but no way can you say his feet (or foot) was on the ground before the tackle.. Been trying to find a clip on line, but conveniently, cant find one...

I am just in total bemusement, that you can just up and change your words in order to defend yourself in the face of the evidence put in front of you.

I am not shocked, because you do it all the time.

Look at the picture supplied to us by No9. Nacewa is jumping into the tackle with his arm at neck level, Cuthbert is still on his feet because he has not yet been hit. What can't speak, can't lie.

It was reckless and dangerous, he was clearly not in control, which should warrant a red.

eirebilly wrote:I have seen the incidents and yes, Isa could have seen red. I actually think that it was handled quite well on the field.

What is annoying me, all teams seem to have their culprits, is the soccer style play acting that is coming into the game more and more. This really needs to be stamped out.

You'd definitely get carded for that.

Who is this Cain Healy?

The games on youtube somewhere, I looked myself for a picture too but they show everything after the fact

I may be wrong but when I saw it and the replays it looked to me like the momentum of both took them both of their feet

It was a bad tackle but not the awful tackle made out by some and the correct outcome was reached for me

Look, I get it, it's all about opinions, what does it for me though, is that both the TMO and ref were picking the bones out of this and came to the decision they did. Also, the same for the shoulder tackle that Rob Kearney made, yet again both the TMO and ref decided it was nothing.

It leaves a bad taste in the mouth when you see the same things happen differently in other games.

Just watched the Kearney tackle, not even a penalty never mind a card.

Clearly wraps his arms but some like to make mountains out of molehills

marty2086 wrote:Just watched the Kearney tackle, not even a penalty never mind a card.

Clearly wraps his arms but some like to make mountains out of molehills

He does not wrap his arms, he does not even attempt to wrap his arms, his arm was taken around by the momentum, he led with his shoulder, after the ball had gone.

Anyway, I am done with this now, even when proved wrong you will twist and wriggle until you have gone on so much it will sound like you are right.

That's a good one, he wrapped his arms but was an accident

marty2086 wrote:The games on youtube somewhere, I looked myself for a picture too but they show everything after the fact

I may be wrong but when I saw it and the replays it looked to me like the momentum of both took them both of their feet

It was a bad tackle but not the awful tackle made out by some and the correct outcome was reached for me

You'd think it would be somewhere online wouldn't you, but cant find it anywhere...

Don't want to start another conspiracy, but I think the numerous Leinster (and Irish fans) have reported the YouTube clips as copyright breach to Guinness, and so they have ALL been taken down to ensure that there is no evidence available to take this to a citing.... ( )

marty2086 wrote:

That's a good one, he wrapped his arms but was an accident

I did not say that. You really need to grow up.

Only one arm was free, and he did not wrap it around Lee-Lo. The force of Lee-Lo getting hit by Kearney's shoulder caused is free arm to swing ever so slightly up and around.

Kearney led with his shoulder, not even you can deny this.

There it is for you No9



Some people on here will probably still run with your conspiracy theory though

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

That's a good one, he wrapped his arms but was an accident

I did not say that. You really need to grow up.

Only one arm was free, and he did not wrap it around Lee-Lo. The force of Lee-Lo getting hit by Kearney's shoulder caused is free arm to swing ever so slightly up and around.

Kearney led with his shoulder, not even you can deny this.

So you are saying he did try to wrap his arms?

Most tackles lead with the shoulder, would you prefer the head?

Well done martyn, you have just given us all the evidence we need.

marty2086 wrote:So you are saying he did try to wrap his arms?

NO.

I am saying that he was reckless, he did not wrap his arms either. At least that is a penalty, and not nothing.

Well considering you said one arm wasn't free it would seem in your version he couldn't wrap both arms but he's Irish theres a different set of laws

marty2086 wrote:Well considering you said one arm wasn't free it would seem in your version he couldn't wrap both arms but he's Irish theres a different set of laws

There is just no debating with you on here.

This is how I see the incident. Rob Kearney has led with his shoulder, he dipped his shoulder into the tackle, the the arm that is attached to that shoulder being kept low and into his own body, he hits Lee-Lo with said shoulder and the momentum of the hit causing the free arm to swing towards Lee-Lo. All this after the ball had gone.

It was reckless and warranted a penalty.

marty2086 wrote:There it is for you No9



Some people on here will probably still run with your conspiracy theory though

DOH!... I was searching for the tackle, didn't think of searching for the game ...

It is difficult to spot at real time, but I think the best angle (one of the replays) from behind and slightly above, shows best that Isa's feet had left the ground before the tackle.

But as I said, if he'd seen Red I don't thknk anyone could have disagreed. However, the yellow was a fairer outcome, and that should be an end of it..

As you and LD will want to continue this bickering, and now you have YouTube clip to re-ignite the argument, I'm going to let you two continue...

LordDowlais wrote:This is a farce, I know I will get ripped apart for this, but it is becoming a joke, what I have just seen in this first half between Leinster and Cardiff is a joke. How is Isa Nacewa still on the field, then going down like he has just been shot to milk a pen on half time. FFS

Also, do not get me started with the scrum, the young Cardiff boy Kieron Assirati is doing a number on Cain Healy yet the ref is letting Cain Healy get away with murder.

2017, Pro14, nothing changes.

Anyway, onto the second half.

Oh, just to edit, I forgot to mention Kearnys shoulder tackle when Cardiff were breaking through that was left unpunished by both Brace and Fitzgibbon. Whate a joke.

I reckon he was lucky not to get sent off alright. I think he may have got off because he reacted immediately in a manner that showed he realised he had made a big mistake and hadnt intended on doing such a bad tackle. Based on precident he was lucky not to get red IMO.

Its hard to tell even when you pause it to see if hes off the ground,he was careless with the tackle and do think red would have been harsh in the circumstances

I'm just finding amusement in watching LD seeing how he twists things to fit his conspiracy from who employs certain people to what people actually wrote

Collapse2005 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:This is a farce, I know I will get ripped apart for this, but it is becoming a joke, what I have just seen in this first half between Leinster and Cardiff is a joke. How is Isa Nacewa still on the field, then going down like he has just been shot to milk a pen on half time. FFS

Also, do not get me started with the scrum, the young Cardiff boy Kieron Assirati is doing a number on Cain Healy yet the ref is letting Cain Healy get away with murder.

2017, Pro14, nothing changes.

Anyway, onto the second half.

Oh, just to edit, I forgot to mention Kearnys shoulder tackle when Cardiff were breaking through that was left unpunished by both Brace and Fitzgibbon. Whate a joke.

I reckon he was lucky not to get sent off alright. I think he may have got off because he reacted immediately in a manner that showed he realised he had made a big mistake and hadnt intended on doing such a bad tackle. Based on precident he was lucky not to get red IMO.

Except the precedent given by WR actually contradicts that but seems facts are whatever people want them to be

Collapse2005 wrote:I reckon he was lucky not to get sent off alright. I think he may have got off because he reacted immediately in a manner that showed he realised he had made a big mistake and hadnt intended on doing such a bad tackle. Based on precident he was lucky not to get red IMO.

This 100%.

But what leaves a bad taste is the actions of the same player 10 mins later when he acts like he has just been pole axed by Navidi and gets a pen, yet the late shoulder hit previously on Lee-Lo goes unpunished, all incidents viewed by the TMO as well.

2 very poorly refereed "foul play" incidents this weekend in my opinion.

Nacewa's could easily have seen red. And the second on Jonny MchNicol wasn't even a penalty. Worryingly, in both incidents the officials seem to take into account how "injured" the tackled player is, or at least what the tackled player does to stop himself getting injured. This, in my opinion, is awful officiating. The sanction decision should never be judged on the actions of the tackled player, it should be judged on what the tackler does, and Nacewa should have seen red (regardless of Cuthbert's sportsmanlike play) and the Zebre player should have seen yellow (because if Mcnichol doesn't put his hand out he lands on his head)

This poor officiating will lead to 1 thing - players diving. (Although Nacewa already seems to have mastered that)




.

Every time I see that high tackle it just looks like a red, and how people can say otherwise is just mind boggling.

Could you please do me a favour rugby fan, I do not know how to put these little snippets up, but can you get one for the late shoulder tackle on Lee-Lo by Kearney please ?

Definitely a red IMO.

LordDowlais wrote:Every time I see that high tackle it just looks like a red, and how people can say otherwise is just mind boggling.

Scottrf wrote:Definitely a red IMO.

Except WR say differently but what do they know

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Every time I see that high tackle it just looks like a red, and how people can say otherwise is just mind boggling.

Scottrf wrote:Definitely a red IMO.

Except WR say differently but what do they know

Not their own laws apparently.

LordDowlais wrote:Every time I see that high tackle it just looks like a red, and how people can say otherwise is just mind boggling.

Could you please do me a favour rugby fan, I do not know how to put these little snippets up, but can you get one for the late shoulder tackle on Lee-Lo by Kearney please ?

and Nacewa making sure the referee knows about his predicament by throwing his arms up in the air:

I love how Kearneys 'shoulder' tackle is a red but the Cardiff one is all about Nacewa, almost like double standards

Scottrf wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Every time I see that high tackle it just looks like a red, and how people can say otherwise is just mind boggling.

Scottrf wrote:Definitely a red IMO.

Except WR say differently but what do they know

Not their own laws apparently.

Really?

Because this is what they cite as a textbook yellow



Not too different to Nacewa, a tackle that starts low and rides high

Thank you very much RugbyFan.

Now, how can anybody watch these incidents and argue to differ ? It's just beggars belief.

marty2086 wrote:I love how Kearneys 'shoulder' tackle is a red but the Cardiff one is all about Nacewa, almost like double standards

Who said Kearney's shoulder tackle was red ? Twist, wriggle, twist.

I presume Nacewa hasn't been cited, and therefore the citing commissioner does not think it warranted a red card?

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:I love how Kearneys 'shoulder' tackle is a red but the Cardiff one is all about Nacewa, almost like double standards

Who said Kearney's shoulder tackle was red ? Twist, wriggle, twist.

Who said anyone said it?

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:I love how Kearneys 'shoulder' tackle is a red but the Cardiff one is all about Nacewa, almost like double standards

Who said Kearney's shoulder tackle was red ? Twist, wriggle, twist.

Who said anyone said it?

Who said that someone said that no one said that someone said that no one said it?!

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:I love how Kearneys 'shoulder' tackle is a red but the Cardiff one is all about Nacewa, almost like double standards

Who said Kearney's shoulder tackle was red ? Twist, wriggle, twist.

Who said anyone said it?

You're a very puzzling poster. I really do not see what is so bad sometimes about manning up and saying "whoops, sorry, I was wrong / slightly inaccurate / misinformed".

I'm frequently wrong / inaccurate online, at home and at work, and I'd like to think I have the humility to accept my own failings and own up if I've said / done anything slightly awry. It's humility. And sometimes it can be enlightening. Try it.

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:I love how Kearneys 'shoulder' tackle is a red but the Cardiff one is all about Nacewa, almost like double standards

Who said Kearney's shoulder tackle was red ? Twist, wriggle, twist.

Who said anyone said it?

You, you are insinuating that it has been said, by that quote in bold. Now please stop back tracking.

If only threads were like a room, and we could lock some of the posters inside...

Anyway, despite all the fighting, I actually do agree with LD and others that it was a textbook red card, but like I said the immediate reaction of both players was perhaps what swayed the colour of the card. Whether people agree that should play a part in the decision making is a different story.

The Welsh ref got these incidents wrong. Nacewa red card for deliberately swinging out of the players neck. Yellow card for Navidi for deliberately blocking Nacewa who shouldn't have been on the pitch. Yellow card for Kearney for running into a Welsh player and knocking him down.

I've said this many many times on here that the standard of Welsh reffing is appalling - this guy Brace, Owens, etc get it wrong so many times in matches. The sooner that Scotland and Italy develop more referees the better. It just gives the whole Championship such a bad look.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:If only threads were like a room, and we could lock some of the posters inside...

Anyway, despite all the fighting, I actually do agree with LD and others that it was a textbook red card, but like I said the immediate reaction of both players was perhaps what swayed the colour of the card. Whether people agree that should play a part in the decision making is a different story.

Look, lets be fair here. Despite PotHale's hypocritical post above.

All these incidents went to the TMO, and only one decision was right, and that was for Navidi impeding Isa Necewa. Navidi was stupid. He also knew what he was doing, although that does not justify Nacewa's behaviour.

Now if we can agree that it was a penalty for that incident, then how come the Lee-Lo incident also went to the TMO and both the TMO and ref decided there was nothing to answer, and play on ?

As for the reckless high tackle, then that was a red, clear as day.

The disturbing fact is, that two officials who are employed by the IRFU only really punished one incident out of those three properly. There were other incidents that happened in that game, that were key, and went for Leinster.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:If only threads were like a room, and we could lock some of the posters inside...

Anyway, despite all the fighting, I actually do agree with LD and others that it was a textbook red card, but like I said the immediate reaction of both players was perhaps what swayed the colour of the card. Whether people agree that should play a part in the decision making is a different story.

How exactly is it textbook? When the textbook says otherwise?