Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

[profitius]

First topic message reminder :

Continued from this one. https://www.606v2.com/t63658-irish-provinces-news-gossip-thread-2016-17
________________________________

[rodders]

Kelleher looked dodgy throwing from the line under pressure - is this 6N a year too soon?

Well if Cronin is out you'd have to presume that he'll be in the squad but probably behind Scannell and Herring unless there is an injury .... Rory's incredible durability is something we'll probably only appreciate now he's gone, hooker isn't a position with a lot of depth...

[mikey_dragon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50562693

Allen Clarke has left his head coach role. The Ospreys are quoted as saying, "Thanks Ulster!"

[rodders]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50562693

Allen Clarke has left his head coach role. The Ospreys are quoted as saying, "Thanks Ulster!"

Not really a shock with the results he's had.

[mikey_dragon]

The only shock was hiring him in the first place.

[rodders]

The only shock was hiring him in the first place.

[carpet baboon]

The only shock was hiring him in the first place.

I think every Ulster fan did warn you not to

[profitius]

Decent weekend for the provinces.


Ulster did the business against a weakened Scarlets. Tbh i though Ulster would rest a few more players when they knew Scarlets were boing to be down a lot. I thought Johnston was motm.


Connacht were not too convincing but got the win. Kings in fairness are tougher this season.


Leinster will be happy with their win. I mentioned Connors' performance against Connacht the other week and he repeated it here. He might make the ireland squad on this form. Good defensive display.


Munster will be disappointed but they performed well for mufh of the match. Just made some bad errors. Healy looked good after his jittery start.

[profitius]

UEFA have urged the FAI to sell their share of the Aviva stadium. I wonder if the IRFU would want to buy it.

[SecretFly]

UEFA have urged the FAI to sell their share of the Aviva stadium. I wonder if the IRFU would want to buy it.

Corruption, corruption, corruption. Football reeks of the stuff.

What business is it of UEFA what share of Lansdowne FAI holds? Unless they see themselves as potential 'agent' for some potential new buyer of those shares?

Who do UEFA think should buy the shares? Manchester United? Barcelona? The Irish Government?

[Brendan]

Well the good news is the IRFU will be getting a bunch of cash to do it

[thebandwagonsociety]

UEFA have urged the FAI to sell their share of the Aviva stadium. I wonder if the IRFU would want to buy it.

Corruption, corruption, corruption.  Football reeks of the stuff.

What business is it of UEFA what share of Lansdowne FAI holds?  Unless they see themselves as potential 'agent' for some potential new buyer of those shares?

Who do UEFA think should buy the shares?  Manchester United?  Barcelona?  The Irish Government?

Anyone could propose to by half the stadium.  It's a couple of acres of premium land in a posh part of the capital.  It's a venue that can host 50-60k concerts and events. It isn't solely soccer and rugby union.  There is convention space, hospitality, a whole load of potential there. Investment funds, live nation, plenty of other groups would be circling around.  It isn't solely a Government or IRFU situation.

If delaney was pushing funds back in into fai in the middle of the summer it would suggest cash is limited. There is a net asset position (at least in the 17-18 accounts there was) but that is wrapped up in the Aviva which isn't cash and doesn't pay the bills.  There is also c.€30m of the loan for the stadium due in the next 1-3 years.  It sounds like anyone who has seen the financial position is suggesting they need to right the ship and restructure asap.

Curious, if a company goes to the wall then usually the ODCE suspends the directors from being directors of any company for a number of years. It's a wonder how every senior head that is about to take a position in the FAI runs to the hills once they get a peak backstage. IF, if, possibly, maybe, who knows.

[profitius]

UEFA have urged the FAI to sell their share of the Aviva stadium. I wonder if the IRFU would want to buy it.

Corruption, corruption, corruption.  Football reeks of the stuff.

What business is it of UEFA what share of Lansdowne FAI holds?  Unless they see themselves as potential 'agent' for some potential new buyer of those shares?

Who do UEFA think should buy the shares?  Manchester United?  Barcelona?  The Irish Government?

Anyone could propose to by half the stadium.  It's a couple of acres of premium land in a posh part of the capital.  It's a venue that can host 50-60k concerts and events. It isn't solely soccer and rugby union.  There is convention space, hospitality, a whole load of potential there. Investment funds, live nation, plenty of other groups would be circling around.  It isn't solely a Government or IRFU situation.

If delaney was pushing funds back in into fai in the middle of the summer it would suggest cash is limited. There is a net asset position (at least in the 17-18 accounts there was) but that is wrapped up in the Aviva which isn't cash and doesn't pay the bills.  There is also c.€30m of the loan for the stadium due in the next 1-3 years.  It sounds like anyone who has seen the financial position is suggesting they need to right the ship and restructure asap.

Curious, if a company goes to the wall then usually the ODCE suspends the directors from being directors of any company for a number of years. It's a wonder how every senior head that is about to take a position in the FAI runs to the hills once they get a peak backstage. IF, if, possibly, maybe, who knows.

The IRFU still owns the land and after 60 years the FAI lease will run out.


They gambled big time on 10 year ticket sales and it backfired spectacularly. The IRFU on the other hand went the conservative route and were fine.

[thebandwagonsociety]

How were the FAI to know that the product on the field was going to be sh!te? It's not as if it was their job to nurture and develop soccer through the grass root levels up to the national side? Oh wait, I mean they didn't have time concentrate on that when they were focusing on developing the domestic game? No that's not it nevermind. Surely there weren't all too busy creaming off the top that they didn't realise the 'top' was no longer on anything? So long as the bosses rent was paid on time and properly declared that's all that matters.

[profitius]

How were the FAI to know that the product on the field was going to be sh!te? It's not as if it was their job to nurture and develop soccer through the grass root levels up to the national side? Oh wait, I mean they didn't have time concentrate on that when they were focusing on developing the domestic game? No that's not it nevermind.  Surely there weren't all too busy creaming off the top that they didn't realise the 'top' was no longer on anything?  So long as the bosses rent was paid on time and properly declared that's all that matters.

They had a fun time anyway. John Delaney buying fans drinks etc. Party on!

[SecretFly]

Anyone could propose to by half the stadium.  It's a couple of acres of premium land in a posh part of the capital.  It's a venue that can host 50-60k concerts and events. It isn't solely soccer and rugby union.  There is convention space, hospitality, a whole load of potential there. Investment funds, live nation, plenty of other groups would be circling around.  It isn't solely a Government or IRFU situation.

My point precisely.  Vultures preying on the opportunities potentially there to buy something perhaps cheap (below market value) from an organisation being publically goaded to sell - almost ordered to sell.... with a very public meltdown of finances in the news for months if not years.

Where were UEFA in the main Delaney years when everyone, including the dog on the street, knew that it was an organisation under very suspect management control, with one single person seeming to hold Don-like influence over all decisions made with scant transparency?  
Delaney was always a man to be more closely monitored by a body like UEFA....but blind eyes when times were good.  These characters are not unique.  They are the engine by which all these big organisations are run - the action men, the people who get things done, the vision guys.... the guys that wouldn't be contained by all moral business principles.

UEFA now only got involved because in a sense they were forced to by the final 'public' disclosure of the dodgy stuff.  And now perhaps some of their corporate buddies are whispering in their ear;  "motivate these suckers to sell and you never know, if we get a good deal and get our foot in, could be beneficial to you guys down the line.... we certainly won't forget the indirect assistance".

So if the FAI do decide to take UEFA advice and sell their share well maybe final penance would be for them to sell their share CHEAP to IRFU or the Government.  I trust UEFA as much as I trust FIFA as much as I trust FAI.

[Pot Hale]

Anyone could propose to by half the stadium.  It's a couple of acres of premium land in a posh part of the capital.  It's a venue that can host 50-60k concerts and events. It isn't solely soccer and rugby union.  There is convention space, hospitality, a whole load of potential there. Investment funds, live nation, plenty of other groups would be circling around.  It isn't solely a Government or IRFU situation.

My point precisely.  Vultures preying on the opportunities potentially there to buy something perhaps cheap (below market value) from an organisation being publically goaded to sell - almost ordered to sell.... with a very public meltdown of finances in the news for months if not years.

Where were UEFA in the main Delaney years when everyone, including the dog on the street, knew that it was an organisation under very suspect management control, with one single person seeming to hold Don-like influence over all decisions made with scant transparency?  
Delaney was always a man to be more closely monitored by a body like UEFA....but blind eyes when times were good.  These characters are not unique.  They are the engine by which all these big organisations are run - the action men, the people who get things done, the vision guys.... the guys that wouldn't be contained by all moral business principles.

UEFA now only got involved because in a sense they were forced to by the final 'public' disclosure of the dodgy stuff.  And now perhaps some of their corporate buddies are whispering in their ear;  "motivate these suckers to sell and you never know, if we get a good deal and get our foot in, could be beneficial to you guys down the line.... we certainly won't forget the indirect assistance".

So if the FAI do decide to take UEFA advice and sell their share well maybe final penance would be for them to sell their share CHEAP to IRFU or the Government.  I trust UEFA as much as I trust FIFA as much as I trust FAI.

They'll have no choice but to sell their stake to IRFU if they decide to do a deal.  Their share reverts to IRFU in the long-term anyway.

It's a no-brainer for the IRFU if the situation arises.  Splitting the proceeds of New Stadium DAC 50/50 each year would stop.  FAI would become a tenant income.

[profitius]

IRFU and FAI are meeting tomorrow.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1207257354858876928

[Pot Hale]

IRFU and FAI are meeting tomorrow.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1207257354858876928

I think the meeting is between Ross’s Dept of Sport and the IRFU. It does all come down to what the IRFU could gain above the existing position it has now. If FAI cant afford the rent either, then the income stream is compromised and affects the value of what their 50% stake is worth. Would a company like Live Nation be interested to run it as a venue, as they’ve done with Point Depot and Grand Canal Theatre? The IRFU current terms and freehold ownership may not suit them though.

[Collapse2005]

Munster dont seem to be going anywhere really. I wonder should the IRFU try to get Schmidt to coach Munster. Could really make them a force again.

[RDW]

So would anyone bet against Leinster going unbeaten in the Pro 14 this season?

They're absolute miles ahead of anyone.

[Pot Hale]

They’ll lose at some point - when their test players are absent or trying to compete in Europe at same time.

[BigGee]

Maybe some other teams will find some form as well. Glasgow certainly looked better yesterday and Ulster looked devastating!

[Pot Hale]

Maybe some other teams will find some form as well. Glasgow certainly looked better yesterday and Ulster looked devastating!

Ulster certainly did. Very impressive performance. Interesting to see how they go against Clermont next week. Munster, on the other hand, are all over the place - Larkham's attack plans don't seem to be taking hold at all. And Connacht, after a relatively good start, are falling behind, although they have a lot of injuries - something like 20 odd incl key players like Bealham, Butler, Carty, Marmion, Roux, Dillane and Tom Farrell out and Aki on enforced IRFU rest.

Can't see them winning either of their remaining Euro matches so they'll be able to concentrate on getting into play-off and qualification spots. Munster may face the same outcome.

[SecretFly]

So would anyone bet against Leinster going unbeaten in the Pro 14 this season?

They're absolute miles ahead of anyone.

I think wise men would...though I'm not a betting man so I'll remain unwise and poor.

I think it a stretch to believe Leinster won't get done at least once.  If their players start wearing too many hats into this season (Pro14, Europe, Six Nations) then they'll start to think about prioritising certain games over other ones.  They have a head start in Pro14.  So in theory can afford to take their eye off the ball once or twice somewhere down the line.
It won't be so crass as that, not with an old codger like Cullen at the helm.... but I do think Europe is the priority this season after a little leeway might have been shown last year to players preparing for the WC.

[Pot Hale]

So would anyone bet against Leinster going unbeaten in the Pro 14 this season?

They're absolute miles ahead of anyone.

I think wise men would...though I'm not a betting man so I'll remain unwise and poor.

I think it a stretch to believe Leinster won't get done at least once.  If their players start wearing too many hats into this season (Pro14, Europe, Six Nations) then they'll start to think about prioritising certain games over other ones.  They have a head start in Pro14.  So in theory can afford to take their eye off the ball once or twice somewhere down the line.
It won't be so crass as that, not with an old codger like Cullen at the helm.... but I do think Europe is the priority this season after a little leeway might have been shown last year to players preparing for the WC.

A fair point, Fly, although looking at the game time that Cullen has used on some key players in both comps, you have to wonder about wear and tear being the likely cause for a blip - Toner, Gibson-Park, Deegan, Doris, Fardy, Byrne have all racked up 600+ minutes each so far with 9-13 games under their belts.  6N selection will have a bearing no doubt.   This is going to be a long, long season with the test players on duty since last July and 9 test matches to date plus respective game time in their respective leagues/championships.

[RDW]

My reasoning being Leinster basically have two teams - a Europe and important games team and a regular Pro 14 team. There doesn't appear to be much of a drop in quality between either of them!

[BigGee]

Am not sure the Leinster B team been properly tested yet. Most other teams, Glasgow and Edinburgh included, just have not turned up against them this season.

[Engine#4]

With some of the stats Leinster players are putting up I'd have to agree. Other teams seem to be either suffering more from a WC hangover or from very long injury lists in the case of Connacht yesterday.

A poster on another site had Max Deegan down for 2 trys, 3 assists, 21 carries for 76 meters and 29 tackles with none missed. You'd have to look at how one player was allowed to rack that up in a single game. He's just a man after all.


Didn't get MOM either

[SecretFly]

He's just a man after all:

SHUSH, would ya!

Cullen will be very annoyed if you expose the 8 Billion cyborg contract he has with Sony.

[Pot Hale]

My reasoning being Leinster basically have two teams - a Europe and important games team and a regular Pro 14 team. There doesn't appear to be much of a drop in quality between either of them!

Yes and no. Here’s the 23 players with most game time this season in both PRO14 and Heineken. Obviously RWC restrictions and some injuries have played a part in selections, nonetheless a good few of those players will feature in the next two rounds of H Cup. Albeit some of them on the bench, and some of them starting. Sexton gets used far too often as an example of top players not being used, but players such as Fardy, Toner, Deegan, Doris, Gibson-Park, R Byrne, Lowe, D Kearney, Tracy will be.

LH: Pete Dooley - 10
H: Ronan Kelleher - 8
TH: Michael Bent - 8
LK: Scott Fardy - 10
LK: Devin Toner - 11
BR: Max Deegan - 12
BR: Will Connors - 8
BR: Caelan Doris - 11
SH: Jamison Gibson-Park - 13
OH: Ross Byrne - 11
W: James Lowe - 9
C: Jimmy O'Brien - 7
C: Rory O'Loughlin - 6
W: Dave Kearney - 8
FB: Hugo Keenan - 7

Reps:
James Tracy 12, Cian Healy 6, Andrew Porter 7, James Ryan 5, Josh Murphy 9, Luke McGrath 6, Harry Byrne 6, Joe Tomane 6.

[rodders]

So would anyone bet against Leinster going unbeaten in the Pro 14 this season?

They're absolute miles ahead of anyone.

Yeah they just looks so strong whatever team they field, I honestly think they could win the pro14 with a combination of their 2nd/3rd strings. If you look at the performances of the likes of Deeghan, Connors etc. the depth they have is incredible. Ulster or Glasgow my be able to catch them in a one of game but you wouldn't bank on it.

Even in Europe, Saracens and Racing aside I'm not sure they will be beaten this season, I think they are benefiting from the RWC - even though the contributed a lot of the Irish squad they haven't been as impacted due to the depth they have.

Ulster too look to be one of the sides who've not been impacted by the RWC. Leinster are a different level to everyone right now but Ulster are the province who've made the most progress this season for sure, things are really starting to click. The lineout is a a concern but that aside there are so many positives about how they are playing.

Munster and Connacht look to be struggling after strong starts to the season. Munster's attack especially just looks so blunt and individually their big players aren't performing to the level needed, possibly due to a RWC hangover.

[Brendan]

Connachts problem is they had to play the three best teams in the league. They have an injury problem but they also lost their flyhalf's form.  If Carty can fine form they will improve

They have lost 5 games in the league. 4 to Irish teams and the other to Scarlets in the first game which was away from home.

[rodders]

Connachts problem is they had to play the three best teams in the league. They have an injury problem but they also lost their flyhalf's form.  If Carty can fine form they will improve

They have lost 5 games in the league. 4 to Irish teams and the other to Scarlets in the first game which was away from home.

I think you are right, they haven't become bad overnight but they do look a bit off where they were at the same point last season.

Similar with Munster right now, I think the fact that Leinster and to a lesser extent Ulster are going so well, it can make a bit of a rocky patch seem like a full blown crisis for the other provinces.

[profitius]

Munster Contracts
(Robbed from thomond2006(boards))

Kevin O'Byrne 2020
Rhys Marshall 2021
Niall Scannell 2021

Diarmuid Barron Year 2
Eoghan Clarke Year 2

James Cronin 2021
Dave Kilcoyne 2020
Liam O'Connor 2020
Jeremy Loughman 2020

James French Year 2
Josh Wycherley Year 2

Stephen Archer 2020
John Ryan 2022
Brian Scott 2020
Ciaran Parker 2020

Keynan Knox Year 3 & 2022

Tadhg Beirne 2022
Billy Holland 2020
Jean Kleyn 2022
Sean O'Connor 2020
Darren O'Shea 2020
Fineen Wycherley 2021

Thomas Ahern Year 2
Paddy Kelly Year 1
Eoin O'Connor Year 1

Arno Botha 2020
Gavin Coombes 2021
Chris Cloete 2022
Tommy O'Donnell 2021
Jack O'Donoghue 2021
Peter O'Mahony 2021
Conor Oliver 2020
CJ Stander 2021

Jack Daly Year 2
John Hodnett Year 1
Jack O'Sullivan Year 3

Craig Casey 2021
Neil Cronin 2021
Nick McCarthy 2021
Conor Murray 2022

Jack Stafford Year 3

Tyler Bleyendaal 2021
Joey Carbery 2022
JJ Hanrahan 2021

Jake Flannery Year 1
Ben Healy Year 2

Sam Arnold 2020
Shane Daly 2021
Chris Farrell 2022
Dan Goggin 2020
Rory Scannell 2021

Sean French Year 2
Alex McHenry Year 3

Andrew Conway 2020
Keith Earls 2021
Mike Haley 2021
Calvin Nash 2021
Darren Sweetnam 2021
Alex Wootton 2021

Liam Coombes Year 3
Alan Tynan Year 3
Jonathan Wren Year 2


NIE: Botha, Cloete and I'm not sure about Knox


My predicted transfers at end of season.

OUT:
Ciaran Parker
Darren O'Shea
Sean O'Connor
Arno Botha
Connor Oliver
Sam Arnold

From Academy:
Alex McHeny
Alan Tynan
Jack Stafford


IN:
Academy Promotions:
Dairmuid Barron
Keynan Knox
Tom Ahern
Jack O'Sullivan
Ben Healy
Liam Coombes

Signings:
RG Snyman
Damien De Allende

[St John The Enforcer]

Cloete is not NIE. Him and Knox qualify this year along with James Lowe and Jarrad Butler. Last of the 3 year qualifiers

[Pot Hale]

Good news for Connacht and their redevelopment of the Sportsground.  €20m secured under the state’s Large Scale Sports Infrastructure funding programme.   Hopefully they can now complete the funding needed and redevelopment underway.  

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2020/01/10/connacht-redevelopment-project-to-receive-e20m-investment/

[profitius]

I'll try to catch the Munster match tonight. Looking forward to seeing how John Hodnett gets on on his competitive debut.

Munster
Mike Haley
Calvin Nash
Chris Farrell
Dan Goggin
Shane Daly
JJ Hanrahan
Neil Cronin

James Cronin
Niall Scannell
John Ryan
Fineen Wycherley
Billy Holland (C)
Jack O’Donoghue
John Hodnett
Arno Botha



Replacements:
Kevin O’Byrne
Jeremy Loughman
Keynan Knox
Gavin Coombes
Chris Cloete
Nick McCarthy
Ben Healy
Rory Scannell

[profitius]

Not a great day for rugby or any sport.

I'll try to catch the Munster match tonight. Looking forward to seeing how John Hodnett gets on on his competitive debut.

Scored a try and was MOTM. Good prospect for Munster and potentially Ireland.

The kings were terrible though. Absolutely a waste of space and dragging the league down. Munster scored 10 tries and were not even that great on the night.

[rodders]

Leinsters backrow depth is getting ridiculous now -

6 - Ruddock, Fardy, Deegan
7- VDF, Leavy, Connors
8 - Doris, Conan, Deegan

8-9 international standard players competing for 3 starting spots plus a spot on the bench is surely too much even for Leinster? The competition at 7 in particular is crazy with Leavy possibly 3rd choice when he returns.

[Brendan]

Not a great day for rugby or any sport.

I'll try to catch the Munster match tonight. Looking forward to seeing how John Hodnett gets on on his competitive debut.

Scored a try and was MOTM. Good prospect for Munster and potentially Ireland.

The kings were terrible though. Absolutely a waste of space and dragging the league down. Munster scored 10 tries and were not even that great on the night.

When you are built as a running team a muddy pitch isn't great. Much improved this year and have money behind them now so building up their squad. Add in they only get to play Ospreys, Dragons and Zebre once it's alot harder for them this year

[thebandwagonsociety]

Leinsters backrow depth is getting ridiculous now -  

6 - Ruddock, Fardy, Deegan
7-  VDF, Leavy, Connors
8 - Doris, Conan, Deegan

8-9 international standard players competing for 3 starting spots plus a spot on the bench is surely too much even for Leinster? The competition at 7 in particular is crazy with Leavy possibly 3rd choice when he returns.

Add in Josh Murphy and Scott Penny somewhere across them also. Deegan is good but he doesn't have a twin does he? When you look at the injuries that backrows accumulate though, it's so attritional.

[profitius]

Munster Contracts updated


Kevin O'Byrne 2022
Rhys Marshall 2021
Niall Scannell 2021

Diarmuid Barron Year 2
Eoghan Clarke Year 2


James Cronin 2021
Dave Kilcoyne 2023
Liam O'Connor 2022
Jeremy Loughman 2022

Josh Wycherley Year 2


Stephen Archer 2022
John Ryan 2022
Keynan Knox 2022

James French Year 2


Tadhg Beirne 2022
Billy Holland 2021
Jean Kleyn 2022
RG Snyman 2022
Fineen Wycherley 2021

Thomas Ahern Year 2
Paddy Kelly Year 1
Eoin O'Connor Year 1


Gavin Coombes 2021
Chris Cloete 2022
Tommy O'Donnell 2021
Jack O'Donoghue 2021
Peter O'Mahony 2021
Jack O'Sullivan 2023
CJ Stander 2021

Jack Daly Year 2
John Hodnett Year 1


Craig Casey 2021
Neil Cronin 2021
Nick McCarthy 2021
Conor Murray 2022


Tyler Bleyendaal 2021
Joey Carbery 2022
JJ Hanrahan 2021

Jake Flannery Year 1
Ben Healy Year 2


Damien De Allende 2023
Chris Farrell 2022
Dan Goggin 2022
Alex McHenry 2021
Rory Scannell 2021


Andrew Conway 2023
Liam Coombes 2021
Shane Daly 2021
Keith Earls 2021
Matt Gallagher 2022
Mike Haley 2021
Calvin Nash 2021
Darren Sweetnam 2021
Alex Wootton 2021

Sean French Year 2
Jonathan Wren Year 2


Out of contract:
Brian Scott 2020
Ciaran Parker 2020
Sean O'Connor 2020
Darren O'Shea 2020
Arno Botha 2020
Conor Oliver 2020
Sam Arnold 2020

Jack Stafford Year 3
Alan Tynan Year 3

[profitius]

About 80 players in the 4 provinces are out of contract at end of this season and the IRFU not seeing about contracts until January.


Nucifora said they'll concentrate on youth so It will be interesting to see who they keep and let go.

[Pot Hale]

About 80 players in the 4 provinces are out of contract at end of this season and the IRFU not seeing about contracts until January.


Nucifora said they'll concentrate on youth so It will be interesting to see who they keep and let go.

Interesting. Another report said about 50% or 90 odd players - which makes the professional playing base at around 180 players plus the academy players gives about 250 total.

Some of the long-term servants at clubs such as Michael Bent and Sean Cronin (Lein), Louis Ludik (Uls), Stephen Archer & Billy Holland (Mun) are likely to receive their exit pass. And no doubt, some of the current central contract players - Sexton, Healy, O'Mahony are up for scrutiny as well at season end in June 2021.

[mikey_dragon]

Might this be the time more Irish players head overseas? There's already a Leinster player at Dragons...

[Pot Hale]

Might this be the time more Irish players head overseas? There's already a Leinster player at Dragons...

They might. It depends on approach taken by Nucifora & Co on the development pathway. This year has been a bit of a write off for the schools and age-grade players. What do they do with that surplus? Discard and focus on the next batch or hire them anyway and build up the academies even further? The influx of younger players coming into the provinces shows in the average age dropping - particularly in Connacht and Leinster. Bringing in foreign-born players is going to reduce further, although some NIE players such as Fardy might be replaced if they can find one.

It will probably put the squeeze on the middle-rank players on 100-175k salaries. There is no love lost between Leinster and Nucifora on their squad development and his redistribution of players to other provinces. So the squeeze may start there with players encouraged to move and if not, deciding to try find more games abroad. Is moving within the PRO14/16 a better option than to the Premiership who are going through their own cost-cutting measures?

Players and their agents may find that spots are less available than before.

[Kingshu]

Might this be the time more Irish players head overseas? There's already a Leinster player at Dragons...

They might. It depends on approach taken by Nucifora & Co on the development pathway. This year has been a bit of a write off for the schools and age-grade players. What do they do with that surplus? Discard and focus on the next batch or hire them anyway and build up the academies even further? The influx of younger players coming into the provinces shows in the average age dropping - particularly in Connacht and Leinster. Bringing in foreign-born players is going to reduce further, although some NIE players such as Fardy might be replaced if they can find one.

It will probably put the squeeze on the middle-rank players on 100-175k salaries. There is no love lost between Leinster and Nucifora on their squad development and his redistribution of players to other provinces. So the squeeze may start there with players encouraged to move and if not, deciding to try find more games abroad. Is moving within the PRO14/16 a better option than to the Premiership who are going through their own cost-cutting measures?

Players and their agents may find that spots are less available than before.

There has always been Irish players going overseas for example this year,
Joe Maksymiw, Peter McCade, Bryan Byrne, Rob Kearney, Adeolokun, Seán O'Connor, Ciaran Parker, Darren O'Shea, Jack Stafford and Angus Kernohan all went outside Ireland. It would be the same most years. I don't think there will be a sudden increase, the academies will and provinces will be able to hold onto those they want.

[formerly known as Sam]

 the very Irish Joe Maksymiw. Born in Derby, educated in Loughborough and came through the Tigers academy.

There's always been more Irish players than spaces available in Ireland. Similar with Wales. You'll find plenty of players of not quite top level filling out the ranks in the Championship. Some are late developers and end up making it in the Prem or head back home. One of the many reasons the loss of a professional Championship is a loss to NH rugby. I guess those players might get picked up by the French second division instead.

Ireland have had a golden generation and are rebuilding. At some point the hard part comes and you have to let the big names go because they aren't the same players they were and you don't want to keep them in contracts past their peak at the risk they become dead wood blocking the best talent coming through. The IRU might well use the pandemic as a good excuse to being forward what might have been done over a couple of years but Ireland do have talent coming through.

[Pot Hale]

 the very Irish Joe Maksymiw. Born in Derby, educated in Loughborough and came through the Tigers academy.

There's always been more Irish players than spaces available in Ireland. Similar with Wales. You'll find plenty of players of not quite top level filling out the ranks in the Championship. Some are late developers and end up making it in the Prem or head back home. One of the many reasons the loss of a professional Championship is a loss to NH rugby. I guess those players might get picked up by the French second division instead.

Ireland have had a golden generation and are rebuilding. At some point the hard part comes and you have to let the big names go because they aren't the same players they were and you don't want to keep them in contracts past their peak at the risk they become dead wood blocking the best talent coming through. The IRU might well use the pandemic as a good excuse to being forward what might have been done over a couple of years but Ireland do have talent coming through.

Agreed. Middle-rank Irish players are attractive to Premiership and Championship clubs because of the IRFU unwritten policy about not selecting from abroad, they speak English, fit into the culture easily, and are available as and when clubs need them - they're not expensive either - just 10-15% more than they were earning in Ireland.

Regarding new players coming forward through academies, new schools and increasingly from the AIL amateur clubs, the IRFU have recently announced a €4m bailout for the amateur clubs to keep them afloat and getting underway again subject to C19 restrictions. The clubs have to date, resisted Nucifora's grand plans for integrating them into HIS pathway, and he said very publicly last year that he was going to move around them to achieve what he wants. I suspect that the granting of these monies are going to come with a few Nucifora-inspired strings attached - we'll wait and see.

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2020/12/01/rugby-clubs-to-receive-e4-million-of-covid-19-emergency-funding/

[Pot Hale]

Good to see some interior games being organised for the provincial A teams over the next few weeks.

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/leinster-a-fixtures-connacht-munster/?FixGuid=

https://www.ulsterrugby.com/2020/12/ulster-a-team-set-for-inter-pro-fixtures/

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2020/12/01/munster-a-to-face-ulster-leinster-this-month/

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