Brexit

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 18 Oct 2017, 8:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Galted wrote:It will stop foreigners praying in our mosques.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 18 Oct 2018, 12:30 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Hero wrote:So... Northern Ireland?
What's the answer?

It's an invented issue, so there is no answer, because there is no problem. Reports from the European Parliament and the Legatum Institute have already confirmed this. Keep the common travel area, co-operate on customs inspections (largely automated due to technology) and everything is fine.

These 'negotiations' are just a faff. Bloody faff.

Yeah. Who could've predicted there would have to be Brexit negotiations?

by SecretFly Thu 18 Oct 2018, 12:38 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Yeah. Who could've predicted there would have to be Brexit negotiations?[/quote]

Remainers and the EU. They love long negotiations designed to turn opinions around.

Junker: "If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue’."

by Samo Thu 18 Oct 2018, 12:48 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Hero wrote:So... Northern Ireland?
What's the answer?

It's an invented issue, so there is no answer, because there is no problem. Reports from the European Parliament and the Legatum Institute have already confirmed this. Keep the common travel area, co-operate on customs inspections (largely automated due to technology) and everything is fine.

These 'negotiations' are just a faff. Bloody faff.

What is this technology? Because no one seems to know, they just bark TECHNOLOGY and go back to daydreaming about blue passports and fish

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 18 Oct 2018, 1:01 pm

SecretFly wrote:

Yeah. Who could've predicted there would have to be Brexit negotiations?

Remainers and the EU. They love long negotiations designed to turn opinions around.

Junker: "If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue’."[/quote]

As I said previously - if we let the EU dictate all the terms for the deal, we wouldn't need any negotiations and we'd be out of the EU. Leavers ought to be happy with that approach. Any other approach requires negotiations.

by SecretFly Thu 18 Oct 2018, 1:15 pm

You're saying that if the EU got to decide the terms that the UK would already be out of the EU cleanly and neatly?

Hmmmm............. it's the glue of the EU that's keeping the non-ending extraction party going.

UK "We want out!"
EU "Okay. you can get out. Now first let's discuss the meaning of 'we' for two years first. Then when we've come to an agreement on the definition of the word 'we' let's start the pre-talks on the talks about the discussion about negotiations on the word 'want'."

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 18 Oct 2018, 1:39 pm

SecretFly wrote:You're saying that if the EU got to decide the terms that the UK would already be out of the EU cleanly and neatly?

Yes. If we gave them everything they wanted, we'd be out cleanly and neatly.
Of course, the EU would sh*t on us and a lot of people in the UK would suffer more from the UK not having any say in the deal, but it would fulfil Brexit as defined by the referendum, which is what the majority voted for.
The only reason for negotiation is that no-one defined what Brexit actually meant in real terms before it was voted for.

by SecretFly Thu 18 Oct 2018, 1:54 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
SecretFly wrote:You're saying that if the EU got to decide the terms that the UK would already be out of the EU cleanly and neatly?

Yes. If we gave them everything they wanted, we'd be out cleanly and neatly.
Of course, the EU would sh*t on us and a lot of people in the UK would suffer more from the UK not having any say in the deal, but it would fulfil Brexit as defined by the referendum, which is what the majority voted for.
The only reason for negotiation is that no-one defined what Brexit actually meant in real terms before it was voted for.

How can you possibly define what Brexit would actually mean in all practical terms unless you have the negotiations that formulate such a definition AFTER a declaration of out - not before?
The EU would never indulge a Nation wanting indepth negotiations over four or five years on all the detail of any future exit from the ranks. First you say you want out, then the EU agrees to negotiate the specifics with that specific Nation and in that moment in time.

Plus - Leaving has never happened before. If another Nation chooses to leave in the future, they and all of us will know the trajectory and conclusions better. Learning from experience. Indeed, the EU might learn to slipstream the process more for future reference knowing how distracting this long process has been to date.

But........................... they'd never do that. Like I say, long long negotiations are part of the very process to make extraction sticky and unappealing.

by Samo Thu 18 Oct 2018, 1:56 pm

SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
SecretFly wrote:You're saying that if the EU got to decide the terms that the UK would already be out of the EU cleanly and neatly?

Yes. If we gave them everything they wanted, we'd be out cleanly and neatly.
Of course, the EU would sh*t on us and a lot of people in the UK would suffer more from the UK not having any say in the deal, but it would fulfil Brexit as defined by the referendum, which is what the majority voted for.
The only reason for negotiation is that no-one defined what Brexit actually meant in real terms before it was voted for.

How can you possibly define what Brexit would actually mean in all practical terms unless you have the negotiations that formulate such a definition AFTER a declaration of out - not before?
The EU would never indulge a Nation wanting indepth negotiations over four or five years on all the detail of any future exit from the ranks. First you say you want out, then the EU agrees to negotiate the specifics with that specific Nation and in that moment in time.

Plus - Leaving has never happened before. If another Nation chooses to leave in the future, they and all of us will know the trajectory and conclusions better. Learning from experience. Indeed, the EU might learn to slipstream the process more for future reference knowing how distracting this long process has been to date.

But........................... they'd never do that. Like I say, long long negotiations are part of the very process to make extraction sticky and unappealing.

But I've been told continuously that people knew exactly what they were voting for?

by SecretFly Thu 18 Oct 2018, 2:01 pm

They did................

OUT.

That means that if we then followed Julius's idea that the EU should then be allowed choose the terms of OUT...
the EU, stuffed with as much self interest as the UK, would say you can leave but you must remain in the custom union.

That conclusion would still be the EU deciding the fate of the UK. If they simply said, you can go now - they could have refused to negotiate until the GO NOW date arrived.

Lots of Nations have trading relationships with the EU........ but based on NOT being in the EU and based on independent trading negotiations. Germans still want to sell cars to the UK people and the UK people still like German cars.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 18 Oct 2018, 2:18 pm

SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
SecretFly wrote:You're saying that if the EU got to decide the terms that the UK would already be out of the EU cleanly and neatly?

Yes. If we gave them everything they wanted, we'd be out cleanly and neatly.
Of course, the EU would sh*t on us and a lot of people in the UK would suffer more from the UK not having any say in the deal, but it would fulfil Brexit as defined by the referendum, which is what the majority voted for.
The only reason for negotiation is that no-one defined what Brexit actually meant in real terms before it was voted for.

How can you possibly define what Brexit would actually mean in all practical terms unless you have the negotiations that formulate such a definition AFTER a declaration of out - not before?
The EU would never indulge a Nation wanting indepth negotiations over four or five years on all the detail of any future exit from the ranks. First you say you want out, then the EU agrees to negotiate the specifics with that specific Nation and in that moment in time.

Plus - Leaving has never happened before. If another Nation chooses to leave in the future, they and all of us will know the trajectory and conclusions better. Learning from experience. Indeed, the EU might learn to slipstream the process more for future reference knowing how distracting this long process has been to date.

But........................... they'd never do that. Like I say, long long negotiations are part of the very process to make extraction sticky and unappealing.

I thought you said it was only the Remainers etc who wanted negotiations. Now you're saying Leavers want them as well, but that at some arbitrary point defined by yourself there is 'too much negotiation'.

by SecretFly Thu 18 Oct 2018, 2:28 pm

I'm saying the process of Leaving is a legal framework. Negotiations is part of it. Not dictation of terms by the EU... negotiations of how to dismantle an complex network with as little fuss as possible, streamlining a Leave.

The Leavers want to leave...but Leaving is a process. Only idiot Leavers and idiot Remainers can't compute that reality.

The law of Leaving says negotiations. If you want a Wedding, most people plan it. The planning of where Father sits to prepare for his speech has nothing specifically to do with the couple saying 'I do' but the wedding planning still needs a chat about him before the wedding. The problem with the EU and Remainers in my opinion is that they want to extend the discussion about where Dad sits at the reception in an attempt to put off the wedding entirely.

by Samo Thu 18 Oct 2018, 2:31 pm

Bloody EU, doing what it was set-up to do and look after the best interests of a member state. How dare they.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 18 Oct 2018, 2:36 pm

SecretFly wrote:I'm saying the process of Leaving is a legal framework. Negotiations is part of it. Not dictation of terms by the EU... negotiations of how to dismantle an complex network with as little fuss as possible, streamlining a Leave.

The Leavers want to leave...but Leaving is a process. Only idiot Leavers and idiot Remainers can't compute that reality.

The law of Leaving says negotiations. If you want a Wedding, most people plan it. The planning of where Father sits to prepare for his speech has nothing specifically to do with the couple saying 'I do' but the wedding planning still needs a chat about him before the wedding. The problem with the EU and Remainers in my opinion is that they want to extend the discussion about where Dad sits at the reception in an attempt to put off the wedding entirely.

Actually, that's my plan for when my daughter gets married.

by SecretFly Thu 18 Oct 2018, 2:42 pm

Samo wrote:Bloody EU, doing what it was set-up to do and look after the best interests of a member state. How dare they.

It's okay...just as long as you're admitting the delays are strategic, that's fine.

That's a completely different argument to the one put forward suggest the Eu are frustrated by May not giving them clarity....clarity would be a crime to the procrastination plan.

by SecretFly Thu 18 Oct 2018, 2:44 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I'm saying the process of Leaving is a legal framework. Negotiations is part of it. Not dictation of terms by the EU... negotiations of how to dismantle an complex network with as little fuss as possible, streamlining a Leave.

The Leavers want to leave...but Leaving is a process. Only idiot Leavers and idiot Remainers can't compute that reality.

The law of Leaving says negotiations. If you want a Wedding, most people plan it. The planning of where Father sits to prepare for his speech has nothing specifically to do with the couple saying 'I do' but the wedding planning still needs a chat about him before the wedding. The problem with the EU and Remainers in my opinion is that they want to extend the discussion about where Dad sits at the reception in an attempt to put off the wedding entirely.

Actually, that's my plan for when my daughter gets married.

but be warned...I've pre-empted you and the arrangements are already sealed and legally binding. You're going to be making your speech from the toilets, with heavily armed goons keeping you there until the bride and her groom have absconded to North Kor.....

OOPS!............................

by Duty281 Thu 18 Oct 2018, 2:58 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Hero wrote:So... Northern Ireland?
What's the answer?

It's an invented issue, so there is no answer, because there is no problem. Reports from the European Parliament and the Legatum Institute have already confirmed this. Keep the common travel area, co-operate on customs inspections (largely automated due to technology) and everything is fine.

These 'negotiations' are just a faff. Bloody faff.

If it was that easy they would have resolved this by now. They haven't.

If the Tory Party were serious about leaving the EU, it would have been resolved by now. They aren't.

by **Hero** Thu 18 Oct 2018, 4:50 pm

Remember when they let the public decide upon the name of a new boat?
And the public decided to call it Boaty McBoatface.
So they made the call to disregard what the public want because the public made a stupid decision...

by **Pr4wn** Fri 19 Oct 2018, 7:24 am

Is it me or does old Nigel The Patriot look pretty ill these days?

by TwisT Fri 19 Oct 2018, 9:43 am

Hero wrote:Remember when they let the public decide upon the name of a new boat?
And the public decided to call it Boaty McBoatface.
So they made the call to disregard what the public want because the public made a stupid decision...

There is stupid decision and then there is misinformed decision. If the criteria of naming the boat meant it had to be "serious" then they should have said - the public went with what they thought was good at the time. A bit too much like Lemmings but there you go (familiar scenario).

But why not call the boat that, how ever stupid the name? They asked for it to be named by the public and the public named it. Make sure you have a list of requirements in place first but don't say it is a "stupid decision" - the public did what was asked of it. Pretty much why things like this are usually multiple choice first. The name is stupid, not the decision.

The longer Brexit is called a stupid decision, the more those people will just dig their heels in and say otherwise. It was close to a 50/50 split and I don't think one half of the UK are a bunch of idiots any more than I don't think that the other half of the UK are Yoda like sages.

Just sick of the whole thing now. We've made our bed so we have to lie in it. It may bring fire and brimstone but to try and go back on it will just cause more problems. You are going to pee off half the country, and if the country wanted it then there would be a lot more revolt than what there has been. No good Remainers saying you want to have another vote to Remain. You need Leavers to now turn round and say I would vote Remain and there isn't enough of those - going back to digging our heels in. No one likes to admit they were wrong.....and that goes for either side if, by some twist of fate, leaving the EU actually turns out to be a good thing.

by SecretFly Fri 19 Oct 2018, 11:06 am

Pr4wn wrote:Is it me or does old Nigel The Patriot look pretty ill these days?

Still manages to look more red bloodedly human than some of the Remain cheer leaders Wink

:

Brexit - Page 18 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWPcKFyCO5_6Bomw3fkro9WSdNDDf06RnVlveAtuFD-ygk5FdoeQ

Brexit - Page 18 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTsKVqmDwDjombxm4WfAYp9uq3ykhbP3pnNTj-03yGIULj6Glp0

by SecretFly Fri 19 Oct 2018, 11:15 am

Hero wrote:Remember when they let the public decide upon the name of a new boat?
And the public decided to call it Boaty McBoatface.
So they made the call to disregard what the public want because the public made a stupid decision...

Quite an Interesting point actually, as you might just be laying your finger on what was yet another significant change in the political landscape. Remember that the public (a lot of people!) chose to belittle the entire exercise and almost comically force the establishment to laugh at itself. It was a dare. The Public didn't really care about the idea of the naming as much as the Prim and Proper lads at the higher levels of society did. It was a middle finger salute to the establishment "Put that name on it, if you dare".

The establishment proved that of course, they don't smile and have no humour and didn't dare.

But Boaty was perhaps a small but significant milestone in the middle finger to presumed convention. Politcial voting going violently against polls is another. Trump is another. Brexit was another.

by **Hero** Fri 19 Oct 2018, 11:20 am

SecretFly wrote:
Hero wrote:Remember when they let the public decide upon the name of a new boat?
And the public decided to call it Boaty McBoatface.
So they made the call to disregard what the public want because the public made a stupid decision...

Quite an Interesting point actually, as you might just be laying your finger on what was yet another significant change in the political landscape. Remember that the public (a lot of people!) chose to belittle the entire exercise and almost comically force the establishment to laugh at itself. It was a dare. The Public didn't really care about the idea of the naming as much as the Prim and Proper lads at the higher levels of society did. It was a middle finger salute to the establishment "Put that name on it, if you dare".

The establishment proved that of course, they don't smile and have no humour and didn't dare.

But Boaty was perhaps a small but significant milestone in the middle finger to presumed convention. Politcial voting going violently against polls is another. Trump is another. Brexit was another.

For once I very much agree with you on that!

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 19 Oct 2018, 11:39 am

If the main parties had backed Leave, we might have ended up Remaining.

by SecretFly Fri 19 Oct 2018, 11:40 am

Hero wrote:

For once I very much agree with you on that!

There you go. It's a new Punk generation. Pity that so many straight faced young people still can't divest themselves yet from Twitter/Facebook/Google conformity and realise it's much more fun being a rebel laughing at the angst coming from the grey halls of power. "They won't....*cough/splutter*............. they won't obey us no more! RED ALERT! RED ALERT! DOES NOT COMPUTE"

Join the party, Hero. It's so much more fun being on the fringes of a drone society.

by Duty281 Fri 19 Oct 2018, 12:53 pm

Boaty Mcboatface, or whatever it was, is actually used as the name of one of the underwater vehicles carried on RRS David Attenborough - so it wasn't disregarded completely.

by Duty281 Fri 19 Oct 2018, 1:05 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I hope the marching of the bad losers is better than their tenuous grip on reality - they say more than 100,000 turned up in June for the first march.

Luckily the magnanimity of the winners is helping to heal the divisions raised by the vote and its outcome.

I make no apology for mocking the slender minority of Remain voters who have revealed themselves to be the most vicious and abhorrent anti-democrats.

Most Remain voters have accepted the outcome with good grace and humility. Peace and love to them.

Would you say everyone going on the march is a 'vicious and abhorrent anti-democrat'?

Everyone who wants to overturn the democratic decision, without it first being implemented, are vicious and abhorrent anti-democrats.

OK. So a people's vote on the actual proposed deal is neither vicious nor anti-democratic.

Sure thing, I have absolutely no problem with a vote on: accept the deal and leave versus reject the deal and leave.

Trouble is, that's not what the losers' vote campaign wants.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 19 Oct 2018, 1:10 pm

Looking increasingly likely that May will need a sizeable chunk of Labour mps to get her proposal through..SNP abstaining would be suicide for them..

Take an optimist to think May can survive much longer.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 19 Oct 2018, 1:27 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Looking increasingly likely that May will need a sizeable chunk of Labour mps to get her proposal through..SNP abstaining would be suicide for them..

Take an optimist to think May can survive much longer.

Nah. Unless she falls on her sword, she's stronger than most think. Not a one of those pathetic pro-Brexit Tories want the job until after whatever Brexit 'deal' is enacted. Good Heavens! They wouldn't want to be Captain of the ship if/when it runs aground on the Brexit reef.

by **Hero** Fri 19 Oct 2018, 1:37 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Looking increasingly likely that May will need a sizeable chunk of Labour mps to get her proposal through..SNP abstaining would be suicide for them..

Take an optimist to think May can survive much longer.
Nah. Unless she falls on her sword, she's stronger than most think. Not a one of those pathetic pro-Brexit Tories want the job until after whatever Brexit 'deal' is enacted. Good Heavens! They wouldn't want to be Captain of the ship if/when it runs aground on the Brexit reef.

Listening to JRM on Radio 4 this morning and god he's an odious sniveling little cretin.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 19 Oct 2018, 1:42 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Looking increasingly likely that May will need a sizeable chunk of Labour mps to get her proposal through..SNP abstaining would be suicide for them..

Take an optimist to think May can survive much longer.
Nah. Unless she falls on her sword, she's stronger than most think. Not a one of those pathetic pro-Brexit Tories want the job until after whatever Brexit 'deal' is enacted. Good Heavens! They wouldn't want to be Captain of the ship if/when it runs aground on the Brexit reef.

I did think that but now I am not so sure..

Backbenchers calling you a S**Tshow s not a great look and a caretaker like Davis to take the UK through Brexit is being mooted more and more..

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 19 Oct 2018, 3:32 pm

Hero wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Looking increasingly likely that May will need a sizeable chunk of Labour mps to get her proposal through..SNP abstaining would be suicide for them..

Take an optimist to think May can survive much longer.
Nah. Unless she falls on her sword, she's stronger than most think. Not a one of those pathetic pro-Brexit Tories want the job until after whatever Brexit 'deal' is enacted. Good Heavens! They wouldn't want to be Captain of the ship if/when it runs aground on the Brexit reef.

Listening to JRM on Radio 4 this morning and god he's an odious sniveling little cretin.

Won't find me disagreeing with that!

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 19 Oct 2018, 3:38 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Looking increasingly likely that May will need a sizeable chunk of Labour mps to get her proposal through..SNP abstaining would be suicide for them..

Take an optimist to think May can survive much longer.
Nah. Unless she falls on her sword, she's stronger than most think. Not a one of those pathetic pro-Brexit Tories want the job until after whatever Brexit 'deal' is enacted. Good Heavens! They wouldn't want to be Captain of the ship if/when it runs aground on the Brexit reef.

I did think that but now I am not so sure..

Backbenchers calling you a S**Tshow s not a great look and a caretaker like Davis to take the UK through Brexit is being mooted more and more..

Maybe, but they'll have to do whatever it is that Tories do when they want to officially knife their leader and elect a new one. If she wants to stay on, at least one of that shower is going to have to step up, do the deed and then lead the good ship UK through Brexit. Doesn't matter if they weren't anything to do with instigating the Referendum etc - history will record them as the PM when it happened and immediately thereafter, with all the opprobrium (or laurels).

Here's a thought. If all those Brexiteer MPs think Brexit is so wonderful, why aren't they clamouring to knife May and take over? Would seem an easy win for their future historical legacy wouldn't it? Unless, of course, they aren't so convinced that Brexit is the great outcome they bang on about.

by Samo Fri 19 Oct 2018, 3:46 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Looking increasingly likely that May will need a sizeable chunk of Labour mps to get her proposal through..SNP abstaining would be suicide for them..

Take an optimist to think May can survive much longer.
Nah. Unless she falls on her sword, she's stronger than most think. Not a one of those pathetic pro-Brexit Tories want the job until after whatever Brexit 'deal' is enacted. Good Heavens! They wouldn't want to be Captain of the ship if/when it runs aground on the Brexit reef.

I did think that but now I am not so sure..

Backbenchers calling you a S**Tshow s not a great look and a caretaker like Davis to take the UK through Brexit is being mooted more and more..
Maybe, but they'll have to do whatever it is that Tories do when they want to officially knife their leader and elect a new one. If she wants to stay on, at least one of that shower is going to have to step up, do the deed and then lead the good ship UK through Brexit. Doesn't matter if they weren't anything to do with instigating the Referendum etc - history will record them as the PM when it happened and immediately thereafter, with all the opprobrium (or laurels).

Here's a thought. If all those Brexiteer MPs think Brexit is so wonderful, why aren't they clamouring to knife May and take over? Would seem an easy win for their future historical legacy wouldn't it? Unless, of course, they aren't so convinced that Brexit is the great outcome they bang on about.

Bingo.

by **Pr4wn** Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:24 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Looking increasingly likely that May will need a sizeable chunk of Labour mps to get her proposal through..SNP abstaining would be suicide for them..

Take an optimist to think May can survive much longer.
Nah. Unless she falls on her sword, she's stronger than most think. Not a one of those pathetic pro-Brexit Tories want the job until after whatever Brexit 'deal' is enacted. Good Heavens! They wouldn't want to be Captain of the ship if/when it runs aground on the Brexit reef.

I did think that but now I am not so sure..

Backbenchers calling you a S**Tshow s not a great look and a caretaker like Davis to take the UK through Brexit is being mooted more and more..

Ah yes, David Davis. The Chief Negotiator and Brexit minister who turned up to negotiations without any notes, who then proceeded to negotiate absolutely nothing before leaving.

David Davis sums up the Tory Brexit mob perfectly.

by SecretFly Sun 21 Oct 2018, 1:23 pm

David Davis being mentioned as May's replacement to take the UK through Brexit? Shocked

Must be just some Halloween 'leak' messing from Boris.

by MrInvisible Tue 23 Oct 2018, 10:49 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/23/the-guardian-view-on-the-daily-mail-and-brexit-a-very-public-shift

Interesting article in Guardian looking at softening of rhetoric in the normally stridently pro-Brexit Daily Mail - reflecting changes in view of public at large perhaps?

by Samo Wed 24 Oct 2018, 4:10 am

Its amazing what a new editor will do.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Oct 2018, 9:39 am

50 Tory mps have vowed to "Stand up for Brexit" and vote against May's deal..

According to Caroline Flint mp..45 Labour mps are willing to back May if it is a reasonable one..I imagine that figure may be slightly exaggerated..

Makes it close though....SNP may be pivotal..

by SecretFly Wed 24 Oct 2018, 9:44 am

SNP

Hmmmm

"Do we vote with May and lose our argument for another shot at 'Independence'? Or do we vote with the Rebel Rebellion Freedom Fighters and quickfire another Referendum?"

Talk about Catch 22! They've been checkmated into a corner methinks

by Duty281 Wed 24 Oct 2018, 5:09 pm

MrInvisible wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/23/the-guardian-view-on-the-daily-mail-and-brexit-a-very-public-shift

Interesting article in Guardian looking at softening of rhetoric in the normally stridently pro-Brexit Daily Mail - reflecting changes in view of public at large perhaps?

With only 16% wanting to remain in the EU (BMG, September 2018) post-referendum, there certainly isn't any change in the view of the public at large. Regardless, the new editor of the Daily Mail has only been in for a very short period of time, so it's too early to judge whether the rhetoric of the Mail is softening.

by lostinwales Wed 24 Oct 2018, 5:44 pm

Duty281 wrote:
MrInvisible wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/23/the-guardian-view-on-the-daily-mail-and-brexit-a-very-public-shift

Interesting article in Guardian looking at softening of rhetoric in the normally stridently pro-Brexit Daily Mail - reflecting changes in view of public at large perhaps?

With only 16% wanting to remain in the EU (BMG, September 2018) post-referendum, there certainly isn't any change in the view of the public at large. Regardless, the new editor of the Daily Mail has only been in for a very short period of time, so it's too early to judge whether the rhetoric of the Mail is softening.

Utter sh*te as usual. What about surveys looking at non UKIP members?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-majority-of-brits-now-want-to-remain-in-the-eu-anaylsis-of-nearly-150-polls-finds-a3956181.html

by SecretFly Wed 24 Oct 2018, 6:00 pm

Isn't it amazing though that one person (an editor) can change the entire focus of how many combined 'independent thinking' journalists.

by Samo Wed 24 Oct 2018, 6:24 pm

SecretFly wrote:Isn't it amazing though that one person (an editor) can change the entire focus of how many combined 'independent thinking' journalists.

Thats one thing we can agree on. Its actually quite scary when you think about it.

by Duty281 Wed 24 Oct 2018, 8:11 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
MrInvisible wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/23/the-guardian-view-on-the-daily-mail-and-brexit-a-very-public-shift

Interesting article in Guardian looking at softening of rhetoric in the normally stridently pro-Brexit Daily Mail - reflecting changes in view of public at large perhaps?

With only 16% wanting to remain in the EU (BMG, September 2018) post-referendum, there certainly isn't any change in the view of the public at large. Regardless, the new editor of the Daily Mail has only been in for a very short period of time, so it's too early to judge whether the rhetoric of the Mail is softening.

Utter sh*te as usual. What about surveys looking at non UKIP members?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-majority-of-brits-now-want-to-remain-in-the-eu-anaylsis-of-nearly-150-polls-finds-a3956181.html

Aww, does it go against your line of thinking, hence it must be 'utter sh*te'? BMG (a neutral body) show that only 16% want to remain in the EU post-referendum. Deal with it.

https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/huffpost-bmg-labour-conference-polling-results-part-1-2/

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed 24 Oct 2018, 10:27 pm

Duty281 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
MrInvisible wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/23/the-guardian-view-on-the-daily-mail-and-brexit-a-very-public-shift

Interesting article in Guardian looking at softening of rhetoric in the normally stridently pro-Brexit Daily Mail - reflecting changes in view of public at large perhaps?

With only 16% wanting to remain in the EU (BMG, September 2018) post-referendum, there certainly isn't any change in the view of the public at large. Regardless, the new editor of the Daily Mail has only been in for a very short period of time, so it's too early to judge whether the rhetoric of the Mail is softening.

Utter sh*te as usual. What about surveys looking at non UKIP members?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-majority-of-brits-now-want-to-remain-in-the-eu-anaylsis-of-nearly-150-polls-finds-a3956181.html

Aww, does it go against your line of thinking, hence it must be 'utter sh*te'? BMG (a neutral body) show that only 16% want to remain in the EU post-referendum. Deal with it.

https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/huffpost-bmg-labour-conference-polling-results-part-1-2/

Would that link include this paragraph?
"One might view the fact that only 16% selected remaining in the EU on our current terms as a headline in itself. However, readers should be cautious when interpreting this figure. We certainly cannot conclude that only 16% of voters would now back remaining in the EU in an in-out scenario. This is not the question that was put to respondents of this poll."

Obviously, you should have put the link in your original post in order that people would be aware of the silly spin you put on it. Although, to be fair we assumed it, as you put silly spin on a lot of things.

It also says "In fact BMG polling has actually shown a narrow lead for remaining in the EU over recent months, with little evidence that many voters on either side of the debate have changed their mind since 2016."

But you, of course, seek to mislead - an approach that is "utter sh*te".

by **superflyweight** Thu 25 Oct 2018, 9:23 am

Someone should probably check that Duty is ok after that.

Don't all rush at once!

by SecretFly Thu 25 Oct 2018, 11:56 am

superflyweight wrote:Someone should probably check that Duty is ok after that.

Don't all rush at once!

I'm just after giving him his new heart that I bought on the black market from the Illuminati ....... Whistle

.... say no more, say no more.

Duty will be fine in a day or so when I find a back lane mechanic to put it into him.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 25 Oct 2018, 12:15 pm

Imagine Duty is preparing for the return of Farage when Chequers gets the green light.

If 'The Times' newspaper is right it looks like Transition is going to last forever..

Great idea lose the privilege of being in Europe while staying in it..

by SecretFly Thu 25 Oct 2018, 1:07 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Imagine Duty is preparing for the return of Farage when Chequers gets the green light.

If 'The Times' newspaper is right it looks like Transition is going to last forever..

Great idea lose the privilege of being in Europe while staying in it..

That of course presumes that the EU will last forever.

by CaledonianCraig Thu 25 Oct 2018, 1:25 pm

SecretFly wrote:SNP

Hmmmm

"Do we vote with May and lose our argument for another shot at 'Independence'? Or do we vote with the Rebel Rebellion Freedom Fighters and quickfire another Referendum?"

Talk about Catch 22! They've been checkmated into a corner methinks

They will abstain. And I would only use checkmate as a terminology for possibility of another indyref. The current situation plays out in only ways from here that improves the prospects for Scotland's independence. Brexit goes ahead as the sham it is in this guise (half-arsed) with much confusion, chaos and financial instability that leaves many Scots who voted no last time moving firmly into the yes camp. I cannot see anything but a significantly smaller number moving in the opposite direction of thought. An election will follow and looks all ends up like a hung parliament. Where do Labour go to make up a coalition? Where do Tories go to make up a coalition not forgetting where they have alienated potential supporters with sufficient seats LibDem and DUP?

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