Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

First topic message reminder :

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/adam-byrne-set-for-ireland-debut-against-argentina-1.3301491

Adam Byrne set to earn his debut. Byrne would thus become the 49th new cap and 94th player used by Schmidt in his five years at the helm. Hmmm, Schmidt doesn't give youth a chance?  

Head to head:

16 Games
Wins 10
Losses 6

If Ireland beat Argentina they will have defeated every tier 1 team in the last two years (except Wales who we only drew with and lost to).

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 77 caps
14. Adam Byrne (UCD/Leinster)*
13. Chris Farrell (Young Munster/Munster) 1 cap
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 1 cap
11. Jacob Stockdale (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 3 caps
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 67 caps
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 58 caps


1.Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 72 caps
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 105 caps Captain
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 18 caps
4. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 3 caps
5. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 33 caps
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 41 caps
7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 50 caps
8. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 17 caps

Replacements
16. James Tracy (UCD/Leinster) 5 caps
17. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 21 caps
18. John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 10 caps
19. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 52 caps
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 18 caps
21. Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 5 caps
22. Ian Keatley (Young Munster/Munster) 6 caps
23. Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 5 caps

I think Byrne is going to have a big game today and will be the talking point after today's game. Expect him to challenge a lot of high balls.

What's up with the extended intros to the anthems? Flip me, the game won't start until 6.

That try was quite wonderful. Farrell looking good at this level.

Missed most of the second half, but that was a pretty successful Autumn tour. Seems like Schmidt is finally selecting some of the players who can actually carry out some of his attacking moves, particularly off the set piece.

Oh and Rob Kearney played really well.

Thought that Ireland would smash a disheartened Argentina (they really seem a 2nd tier side thse days).

Not seen the game, but seemed pretty close.

Do Ireland need a change from Schmidt?

?

Oh well, the first game (SA) was lovely...in the second half.  You can't have too much of a good thing I suppose.  Don't want to spoil ourselves.

I just wish someone would come clean and tell us...in clouded code language if necessary (winks, nods, ear twitches etc) - that the millions of minutes spent defending is actually a genuine pre-planned gameplan.  I want to know for certain whether it's Joe just being a constant masochist with the endless box kick+defend instructions or whether it's just that he has a toothless attack regime that seldom works smoothly or consistently?

If it's the former then at least I'd sit back and try to enjoy the technical beauty of defending for so long - not my kinda thing but at least I'd appreciate that it's the gameplan going like clockwork.  If it's the latter, then we're fooling ourselves in thinking we're well on the way this time to having the players and systems to go one or two stages beyond our usual in World Cups.

80% of the second half defending?  Design or impotency?

Cyril wrote:Thought that Ireland would smash a disheartened Argentina (they really seem a 2nd tier side thse days).

Not seen the game, but seemed pretty close.

Do Ireland need a change from Schmidt?

Really enjoyed that. Stockdale warmed up all of us freezing Irish fans.

Played within themselves and still secured the win with 65 minutes to go.

Sin é wrote:

Cyril wrote:Thought that Ireland would smash a disheartened Argentina (they really seem a 2nd tier side thse days).

Not seen the game, but seemed pretty close.

Do Ireland need a change from Schmidt?

I thought you might like Ireland struggling, Sin! Schmidt out!!!   Maybe a Munster man is required?

I would like Ireland to play a bit of rugby too. One day. Not under current coaching.

Cyril wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Cyril wrote:Thought that Ireland would smash a disheartened Argentina (they really seem a 2nd tier side thse days).

Not seen the game, but seemed pretty close.

Do Ireland need a change from Schmidt?

I thought you might like Ireland struggling, Sin! Schmidt out!!!

Very kind of you Cyril to think of me.


Anyway, what do you think of the IRFU telling the NZRU to piss off when they asked if Ireland would play a game in The Netherlands ?

The Netherlands?

You won’t see us play rugby when you don’t watch the game.It was 20-0 after 45 minutes and game over,we just eased off and the score became respectable.
Great to see our game evolving,we’be been playing a more expansive style since after the WC but with genuine pace in the back 3 we look like being a really dangerous team.Earls and Stockdale on the wings will give us some serious attacking threat.

SecretFly wrote:The Netherlands?  

Feyenoord's De Kuip Stadium in Rotterdam, seemingly (according to Balls.ie which they saw in some of the irish tabloids).

edit: Kiwi's were a bit shy with the cash seemingly.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:You won’t see us play rugby when you don’t watch the game.It was 20-0 after 45 minutes and game over,we just eased off and the score became respectable.

80 minute game. See how many points NZ score late on (and England) to see where it really matters.

I think Scotland may run the legs off your old guys again this 6 Nations.

Ireland still seem a bit behind the times and reliant on the old guys.

[quote="Cyril"]

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Ireland still seem a bit behind the times and reliant on the old guys.

Cyril wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:You won’t see us play rugby when you don’t watch the game.It was 20-0 after 45 minutes and game over,we just eased off and the score became respectable.

80 minute game. See how many points NZ score late on (and England) to see where it really matters.

I think Scotland may run the legs off your old guys again this 6 Nations.

Ireland still seem a bit behind the times and reliant on the old guys.

Now even I'm laughing, Cyril.  Good man.  I needed to get in a better mood.

Scotland do buzz like a bee and offload like crazy but sure.................. they'll all have heart attacks before we even meet them in February.  You lot (Scotland, England and Wales) flog the bejaysus out of your poor players... MUSH! MUSH!.  Gotta relax more.  Chill.  

We, on the other, hand beat the bejaysus out of ours.

SecretFly wrote:We, on the other, hand beat the bejaysus out of ours.

"hand beat"? Is that a new form of torture?

No it's a new kinky craze in wild party places of the world......but that's all I'm saying down that avenue lest I expose a few famous faces that I've met down it ......

Cyril wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:You won’t see us play rugby when you don’t watch the game.It was 20-0 after 45 minutes and game over,we just eased off and the score became respectable.

80 minute game. See how many points NZ score late on (and England) to see where it really matters.

I think Scotland may run the legs off your old guys again this 6 Nations.

Ireland still seem a bit behind the times and reliant on the old guys.

Yeah we did the 80 minutes against S.A. ,how many points did England score late on v Argentina when they played a few weeks ago?

SecretFly wrote:No it's a new kinky craze in wild party places of the world......but that's all I'm saying down that avenue lest I expose a few famous faces that I've met down it ......

Bet you only recognise them after the glue wears off..

Now there is joined up 606 thinking!

I'll make one comment

I watch every game Farrell played for Ulster and most of those for Munster.
That was the best game he has EVER played in Ireland
Still not convinced by his taking of a pass, or his retaining possession in contact but credit where it is due

Yeah I thought he outshone Aki who played pretty well but stalled a few good attacking positions with passes that were behind the receiver.It was a good display from such a new centre pairing.

I would have thought that when Farrell went off moving Stockdale to 13 would have been the obvious choice. Had Byrne ever played center before yesterday?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Kearney is nailed on starting FB for the world cup

I think your crystal ball might be faulty.

Doh, think yours might be.

Kearney proves the doubters wrong once again.

Rob is always good for the big occasion. He is nailed on starter for next world cup (and if he plays liked played yesterday, he will deserve it).

carpet baboon wrote:I would have thought that when Farrell went off moving Stockdale to 13 would have been the obvious choice. Had Byrne ever played center before yesterday?

That suggests to me Schmidt views Stockdale as a starter on the wing whereas Bryne is being viewed as a squad player who could play in multiple positions

I too think Kearney is the first choice started - had a decent game

At least Conway put his hands up to be the obvious cover

Someone earlier mentioned we typically take 5 back three players

Baring injury, or a big drop in form, I reckon R. Kearney, Earls, Conway and Stockdale are as good as on the plane
Everyone else is scrabbling for the last spot.

geoff999rugby wrote:Someone earlier mentioned we typically take 5 back three players

Baring injury, or a big drop in form, I reckon R. Kearney, Earls, Conway and Stockdale are as good as on the plane
Everyone else is scrabbling for the last spot.

Much much too early for that kind of certainty. It was - in terms of results and some performances - considered a good AI season. England, Scotland, Wales, France and Italy await us. We've been here all too often before. Kearney and Earls have probably booked their seat (if fit) based on past exploits as much as any current form. Conway and Stockdale have to prove consistency and potency through the 6N, if chosen. It's always tougher on the newer recruits. They actually have to work harder to stay in contention.

The world cup is a long way away yet so expect a few more backs to step up. Jordan Larmour being the one to look out for. He could be next season's Stockdale.


Kearney played very well yesterday. You're nearly guaranteed a solid performance from him which is what appeals to Schmidt. In 2 years time he'll be 33 and an injury prone one.

Know what you are saying but Stockdale is only going to get better
Will be a guaranteed starter for Ulster and to be fair I suspect Conway will be as well for Munster.
Also he is the only one to put his hand up for the 15 shirt, other than Kearney.

Larmour will be one to look out for but needs to get a good run of games in the back three, for Leinster, to make it.
Always more difficult at Leinster to get a good run of games due to the depth there

Haven't seen anyone, at the other three provinces, who is good enough that we haven't already seen - no one bubbling under as it were.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Kearney is nailed on starting FB for the world cup

I think your crystal ball might be faulty.

Doh, think yours might be.

Kearney proves the doubters wrong once again.

But I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know what is going to happen in two years.

Ireland back up to 3rd in the world after the November series. Probably about right.

Are they?

If true then the World Rugby Official Site Ranking section itself got things quite wrong because in their calculating about the weekend's games I seem to recall them saying Ireland's position can't improve no matter what the results are even in other games.

Maybe you are right. Saw it on pundit arena

I hope it's me that's wrong... we're already so close to Australia that it would be a shame we didn't benefit a little bit by their dramatic fall against Scotland.

SecretFly wrote:I hope it's me that's wrong... we're already so close to Australia that it would be a shame we didn't benefit a little bit by their dramatic fall against Scotland.

Sco v Aus
"Australia can move up to 88.49 rating points if they win by more than 15 points. It is possible for Scotland to break into the top four for the first time since the rankings began in October 2003 if they win well, Ireland are soundly beaten and South Africa lose to Italy for the second year running."
Irl v Arg
"Ireland do not stand to gain any reward due to there being over eight points difference between the teams before home weighting is factored in, but Argentina could overtake France even in defeat because a home loss to Japan would see Les Bleus’ points total dip below Argentina’s. A big win for Los Pumas, similar to the one they achieved over Ireland in Cardiff in the quarter-finals of RWC 2015, would be worth three full ratings points, boosting their tally to 81.22."

They omitted the possibility of Australia losing to Scotland and Ireland winning.  And since Aus were only .90 ahead of Ireland, any kind of a loss would be either 1.198 or 1.797 if loss margin greater than 15 points.

Yes, that's what I thought. Sloppy by the Official Organisation running the damn sport that they would fail to point out all possibilities for Ireland. They did seem to have a more thorough analysis of other top ranked games on the day.

Sin é wrote:Rob is always good for the big occasion. He is nailed on starter for next world cup (and if he plays liked played yesterday, he will deserve it).

Problem is he only plays like that once in a blue moon (or when his contract is up for renewal).

Despite all the headlines, Rob was still running directly up those blind alleys of his too - so.................... injury could be on the cards for him again in the short to medium term if he don't stop running directly into people! He just looks at the ground and away he goes. More bloodhound than gazelle - he finds his man every time.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

Sin é wrote:Rob is always good for the big occasion. He is nailed on starter for next world cup (and if he plays liked played yesterday, he will deserve it).

Problem is he only plays like that once in a blue moon (or when his contract is up for renewal).

I thought it was only when he is dissed here on 606v2 by gobshiites who never lifted a rugby ball in their lives and know the sum total of sweet fark all about the game.

Pot Hale wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

Sin é wrote:Rob is always good for the big occasion. He is nailed on starter for next world cup (and if he plays liked played yesterday, he will deserve it).

Problem is he only plays like that once in a blue moon (or when his contract is up for renewal).

I thought it was only when he is dissed here on 606v2 by gobshiites who never lifted a rugby ball in their lives and know the sum total of sweet fark all about the game.    

You're right, Pot.  The coach that is going to The Crusaders was joking during the half-time interval that Ireland would end up with 40 points to zero.  I laughed out loud.  He knows his stuff, that man.  

Pot Hale wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

Sin é wrote:Rob is always good for the big occasion. He is nailed on starter for next world cup (and if he plays liked played yesterday, he will deserve it).

Problem is he only plays like that once in a blue moon (or when his contract is up for renewal).

I thought it was only when he is dissed here on 606v2 by gobshiites who never lifted a rugby ball in their lives and know the sum total of sweet fark all about the game.    

Good point pot. You have shown that you know fark all about rugby and that was even before the game

Name the last game Kearney played badly for Ireland Dod? Some people are too jealous for their own good. No one has put in as high a performance as Kearney does at FB since possibly Geordan Murphy or Dempsey.

SecretFly wrote:Despite all the headlines, Rob was still running directly up those blind alleys of his too - so.................... injury could be on the cards for him again in the short to medium term if he don't stop running directly into people!  He just looks at the ground and away he goes.  More bloodhound than gazelle - he finds his man every time.

He was running to where the support was. It is fairly obviously the game plan.

Anyway, we ARE third, Thank God. It's nice to get some even symbolic reward for the efforts of the season. It's hard to keep going up when you're so close to the top. It's sometimes easy to see how New Zealand must feel.... they win just about every game they play and still the rest of the crowd ain't that far behind them on this system. You can't put money in the bank! You're always a game or two away from bankruptcy.

Collapse2005 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Despite all the headlines, Rob was still running directly up those blind alleys of his too - so.................... injury could be on the cards for him again in the short to medium term if he don't stop running directly into people!  He just looks at the ground and away he goes.  More bloodhound than gazelle - he finds his man every time.

He was running to where the support was. It is fairly obviously the game plan.

Obviously is...with all of them...a gameplan.  I think I point out that I'm not that happy about that gameplan after every International window.  It needs extras at a more consistent level.  It needs us to push the opposition off us more often throughout an 80 minute game.  The thing is our gameplan asks a lot of players and it puts them into serious injury territory much too often.  Running full blast into people is more risky than evasion.  It simply and logically is.  Thus why we sometimes run out of central players early in International campaigns (6N, WC).

Now having said all that, I still feel Kearney is honestly trying to evade at times and just doesn't have the feet to do so.  So it is a limiting factor in his game.  Kearney is at his most lethal when he's actually hovering around the opposition's tryline.  That's where I feel he's always sharper and more useful than in the duty he does back in his own half.

SecretFly wrote:Anyway, we ARE third, Thank God.  

Correction Fly, Jakob Stockdale is 3rd, the rest of you bums are outside the top 6.