Scotland Autumn Test postmortem and 6N look ahead

First topic message reminder :

2017 Autumn Test Results

Scotland 44 - Samoa 38

Tries - Hogg, Jones, McInally (2), Dunbar, Horne

Scotland 17 - New Zealand 22

Tries - J Gray, Jones

Scotland 53 - Australia 24

McGuigan (2), Price, Maitland, J Gray, Jones, Barclay, McInally


6N fixtures

Wales V Scotland
Scotland V France

Scotland V England

Ireland V Scotland
Italy V Scotland

RDW_Scotland wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Re Wilson's two controversial moments.

Citing- innocuous but past history suggests he will get a ban. What started it? Was it Hughes, or was the England 8 reactIng to something?

Tunnel - Farrell daft to react so hot headedly, though frankly no place for the things Wilson was saying and threatening Ford with.

Personally I would give Farrell and Wilson 1 week bans for tunnel incident and an extra 2 weeks to the Scot for stupidity as all players should know not to put hands near eyes.

First I've heard of that - where's the proof?

The only video I've seen is Wilson walking down the tunnel and Farrell pushing him from behind that started it all!

Bearing in mind, Farrell starts about 20 yards behind Wilson and Ford, pushes past several players to get there to start the fight- I am not sure he would have been able to hear anything said by these 2 in the tunnel

As much as Farrell might be a loon, it does seem odd that he would run 20 yards to start a fight with Wilson over nothing!

He's never been in trouble off the field before, more just hot headed when he's on it

Unless Wilson asked for an autograph .. that would explain it

I don't think he was running to start a fight, I think he was running to get into the changing room, bumped into one Scottish player on the way past then clattered into Wilson as well, who reacted.

I've not seen or heard anything about Wilson saying anything, and from the video it looks like everyone is perfectly happy until Farrell rushes in.

But that's just my take on one video, if there is other evidence that suggests Wilson started it by saying or doing something then fair enough.

Also I think he'll get a ban from the citing. I don't think there was any intent to actually make contact with his eye, but you can't put your hands in someone's face, around the eye area especially, and get away with it.

EWT Spoons wrote:I don't think he was running to start a fight, I think he was running to get into the changing room, bumped into one Scottish player on the way past then clattered into Wilson as well, who reacted.

I've not seen or heard anything about Wilson saying anything, and from the video it looks like everyone is perfectly happy until Farrell rushes in.

But that's just my take on one video, if there is other evidence that suggests Wilson started it by saying or doing something then fair enough.

Also I think he'll get a ban from the citing.  I don't think there was any intent to actually make contact with his eye, but you can't put your hands in someone's face, around the eye area especially, and get away with it.

That's exactly as I interpreted it. He was just in a rush to get in to the changing room...for whatever reason, and brushed past one Scottish player and then bumped in to Wilson.

Its all nothing.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:I don't think he was running to start a fight, I think he was running to get into the changing room, bumped into one Scottish player on the way past then clattered into Wilson as well, who reacted.

I've not seen or heard anything about Wilson saying anything, and from the video it looks like everyone is perfectly happy until Farrell rushes in.

But that's just my take on one video, if there is other evidence that suggests Wilson started it by saying or doing something then fair enough.

Also I think he'll get a ban from the citing.  I don't think there was any intent to actually make contact with his eye, but you can't put your hands in someone's face, around the eye area especially, and get away with it.

That's exactly as I interpreted it. He was just in a rush to get in to the changing room...for whatever reason, and brushed past one Scottish player and then bumped in to Wilson.

Its all nothing.

100% this, can't believe it's even being looked into to be honest.

Hmm......... nah, he was trying to get to Wilson.

Wilson was numero uno target for some reason that day.  I'm sure he said nothing to warrant any of it

He woz as pure as the driven snow, methinks

In terms of who replaces Wilson following his inevitable ban, based on some of the suggestions of RDW earlier;

Strauss – Probably most likely to replace Denton on the bench and is probably a close replacement
Harley – I suspect we’ve moved on from Harley now
Bradbury – If he was playing like he did last season then there is a chance he would have started this tournament at no.8, sadly he’s not hitting the heights just yet but is beginning to get closer to that level.
Hamilton – Is he fit again?  For some reason I thought he was injured, if he’s fit then he would be first choice to come onto the bench.
Hardie – He’s only just back and if anything happened to Denton then we could end up playing with three 7s, which is I believe the fundamentals of a Scott Johnson s*x dream, and no one wants that.
Ritchie – see Hardie
M.Fagerson – possibly too soon
M. Smith – See Fagerson
CDP – Think he ruled himself out after the Wales game
Ashe – I guess he’s injured, but not sure.

Anyone I’m missing?

It might well be too soon, but I would be tempted by Matt Fagerson - for my money, he is the most talented player on that list.

He's definitely talented, but is away to Ireland the game you want to give him his debut. Hell of an ask on the young lad.

EWT Spoons wrote:He's definitely talented, but is away to Ireland the game you want to give him his debut.  Hell of an ask on the young lad.

Yeah, certainly would be a big ask - I just think he is the type of character who could deal with the pressure. How old was his brother when he got his first cap?

Strauss or Hamilton to bench for me with Dents having earned a start.

My money would probably be on Strauss

Zander was 20, but only just. Not much in it. But his debut was at home....against England.

BigGee wrote:Strauss or Hamilton to bench for me with Dents having earned a start.

My money would probably be on Strauss

I think I would go Dents to start, with Fagerson able to cover the BR from the bench.

LondonTiger wrote:Re Wilson's two controversial moments.

Citing- innocuous but past history suggests he will get a ban. What started it? Was it Hughes, or was the England 8 reactIng to something?

Tunnel - Farrell daft to react so hot headedly, though frankly no place for the things Wilson was saying and threatening Ford with.

Personally I would give Farrell and Wilson 1 week bans for tunnel incident and an extra 2 weeks to the Scot for stupidity as all players should know not to put hands near eyes.

He will probably get at least six weeks for the eye incident. The other nonsense does not look as though it needs a ban at all for either party.

Denton will likely start, but I do wonder whether he is better to stick to his role from the bench.

I am guessing that this weekend coming will decide. Strauss started for Sale on the weekend and Hamilton came off the bench. Hamilton would be more useful for an open game but the lack of size if the starting 8 came off is a problem against a big Ireland back-row should the ref have a strict interpretation of the break down. Is Gary Graham capped? Maybe he could be in with a shout after Toonie has spent so much time around Newcastle.

Harley is someone who could have been Scott Fardy-esque. The lack of carrying for a bloke his size and speed is baffling. He plays beneath his weight.

Graham.is uncapped and not in the england squad.

In my view if a player has chosen their senior allegiance, the likelihood is they will but they definitely should stick with it. Fairplay to Gary Graham for choosing England and I think given that the lock experiment is failing he's unlucky to not be in the training squad, but I don't think it sends the right message to other dual qualified players if he's suddenly in the Scotland squad, and it'd be pretty poor form on his part.

You either want to play for Scotland or you don't. Let's not have another Shingler.

TJ wrote:Doesn't look great
https://streamable.com/uj1om

Farrell did the same on Moriarty. Not cited

That was a hand off.

Anyway, about these hand offs? Why are they likeable and considered power plays but fingers in the eye area are a no-go?

Anyone?

SecretFly wrote:That was a hand off.

Anyway, about these hand offs?  Why are they likeable and considered power plays but fingers in the eye area are a no-go?

Anyone?

Intent. A hand off is used to push a player away. A finger in the eye is such an inefficient way to push someone away that the only possible use for it is to cause harm = bad.

The Oracle wrote:

SecretFly wrote:That was a hand off.

Anyway, about these hand offs?  Why are they likeable and considered power plays but fingers in the eye area are a no-go?

Anyone?

Intent. A hand off is used to push a player away. A finger in the eye is such an inefficient way to push someone away that the only possible use for it is to cause harm = bad.

Dunno. If someone pokes me in the eye I don't try to keep my head there.

The Oracle wrote:

SecretFly wrote:That was a hand off.

Anyway, about these hand offs?  Why are they likeable and considered power plays but fingers in the eye area are a no-go?

Anyone?

Intent. A hand off is used to push a player away. A finger in the eye is such an inefficient way to push someone away that the only possible use for it is to cause harm = bad.

A forceful hand in the face of a fast oncoming player is not great biz for that player's neck. It isn't remotely safe in some of the more dramatic incarnations of it. So I always wonder is there a difference between the dangers to an eye and the dangers to a neck.

Oh it's legal, I know. So back to the fingers around the face.

Maybe we should go down the USA route and arm the players!

Blow for Ireland with Chris Farrell ruled out of the 6N.

Boost for Scotland as the Aki-Farrell combo would probably be the most physical centre combo we'd face in the 6N and would likely cause us problems with our lightweight midfield (assuming Horne starts).

I'm guessing ringrose will be brought in, who is a very different type of player. Still a very good one!

The Oracle wrote:Maybe we should go down the USA route and arm the players!

Watch out refs!!!!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Blow for Ireland with Chris Farrell ruled out of the 6N.

An unknown quantity on Friday and now a serious loss to Ireland's ambitions. This guy Farrell has had a meteoric rise in reputation.
But damn it, he's gone now ... for now.

Really nice article:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/101777043/how-canterbury-rugby-helped-shape-scotlands-six-nations-giantkilling-team

GeordieFalcon wrote:

David-Douglas wrote:

TJ wrote:Doesn't look great
https://streamable.com/uj1om

Close to the eye but not in the eye. It's an instinctive reaction to someone having their hands on your throat when you're on your back defenceless on the ground. A rather cowardly attack by Hughes, who should also be cited.

You made a point of saying this on both the England and Scotland threads now. Ill repeat...what caused Hughes to react in that way?
Something must have happened.

We're all guilty of saying our own players are squeaky clean...People are quick to label Farrell all sorts of things, yet forget that Wilson is a prize nob head aswell...

Squeaky clean, Wilson? Not sure even his mum would go along with that.
I’m not sure what, or if anything, was said. I don’t think it really matters much. Hughes shouldn’t have reacted by going for Wilson’s throat. I know that’s difficult if something has been said....

Peeps

Not sure if anyone can help, but if you have a spare ticket going for the Ireland match, I'll happily take it off your hands.

Before it's mentioned, there are some on Viagogo but charging £50 booking fee and £18 postage means they can get to Falkirk.

Cheers.

SecretFly wrote:That was a hand off.

Anyway, about these hand offs?  Why are they likeable and considered power plays but fingers in the eye area are a no-go?

Anyone?

Nah. This is a hand off:

No, this is a hand off:

There you go RugbyFan 100 (I hightlighted that bit to make sure it's known that I know there are two guys on this site with the same name )  

So the question still stands.  One can be done openly and crowds cheer - the other is the gravest sin in rugby union.

Scottrf wrote:No, this is a hand off:

And matching key holder!

Just wondering if there's a real chance a Scottish player could win player of the 6N for a third year running (Huw Jones)???

He would need to get MOTM in a game to be nominated

Is that the rule?

Typically the nominees consistent of the MOTM from each game.

Looks like Ryan Wilson has been let off!

https://twitter.com/ryanwilson89/status/968878247592284160

Hartley: 26 Weeks
Wilson: 0 weeks

Okay.

Very odd if wilson has got away with it. Clear as day.

Confirmed - he's free to play.

A good call, there really was not much to it but you never really do know how a disciplinary will go. I don't believe for a minute that he was trying to go for his eyes and so am more than happy.

By the laws how is it a good call?

'Found that Wilson had committed an act of foul play in that he had made contact (with two of his fingers) with the eye area (i.e. 'anywhere in close proximity to the eye' according to World Rugby's regulation 17) of his opponent.

However, the committee accepted medical evidence adduced on the player's behalf to the effect that, due to a pre-existing injury, two of his fingers (his fourth and little finger on his right hand) were involuntarily in a bent or hooked position.

They also considered that the contact with the eye area had been reckless (rather than intentional), light and fleeting, and had come about as a result of the player's attempts to grab his opponent's shirt during an off-the-ball scuffle with his opponent.'



That just doesn't fit with other citings.

Remember the citing panel see every TV angle whereas we only saw one or two - he may not have actually made contact. Let's see what the written judgement says.

Owen Williams was banned for 12 weeks (reduced to 6) for unintentional eye contact.

Oh wow - Scotland really do have good lawyers!!

Can't believe he's been let off.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Remember the citing panel see every TV angle whereas we only saw one or two - he may not have actually made contact. Let's see what the written judgement says.

Apparently some of his fingers are permanently bent, due to previous injuries and so it naturally looks as if he might be clawing a bit when his hand is flat.

Sounds fine to me!

Does the law say 'you shouldn't make contact with the eyes, unless your fingers are bent'?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Oh wow - Scotland really do have good lawyers!!

Can't believe he's been let off.

Your having a laugh right ?

Ridiculous citing and an unusual outbreak of COMMON SENSE by a disciplinary panel. Guess you wanted Cornel Du Preez back to face Ireland or has even he fallen off the Luvvies 'best player ever' list ?