Ulster Rugby 2017-18

by Pot Hale Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

Jeez - O’Donoghue eeled his way through that maul and caught Herring.

by marty2086 Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:45 pm

Who exactly were they going to scout? Are they really going to approach a player and ask them to sit tight and not sign anything just in case Ulster need them to maybe, possibly be their second choice fly half? Not to mention getting the IRFU to sign off on it?

When exactly were the young kids going to get all this game time too? Curtis was just into the academy last season and wasn't McPhillips out inured for periods?

by Pete330v2 Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:36 pm

I forgot that McPhillips was injured for the start of the season. He'll make up for that now with a baptism of fire of sorts, there's gametime aplenty Smile

The youngster may well flourish when he's finally handed the baton.

by Pete330v2 Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:46 pm

I forgot to say this earlier, Bel Tel headline has to be:

Donald ducks Ulster!!!!!!

by **rodders** Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:51 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:I forgot to say this earlier, Bel Tel headline has to be:

Donald ducks Ulster!!!!!!

I tell you what, it was worth not signing him just for that.

by Redman Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:10 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:I forgot to say this earlier, Bel Tel headline has to be:

Donald ducks Ulster!!!!!!

Very good. A career at the redtops beckons.

by **rodders** Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:29 pm

Redman wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:I forgot to say this earlier, Bel Tel headline has to be:

Donald ducks Ulster!!!!!!

Very good. A career at the redtops beckons.

You guys really quack me up.

by marty2086 Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:32 pm

Im sure it's a headline that would ruffle a few feathers

by carpet baboon Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:44 pm

I wouldn't be to down chaps

by SecretFly Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:28 pm

Exactly. It's not all grey skies............. though in truth, there's not much rays of sun on the horizon eider.

by Geen sport voor watjes Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:56 pm

Two ducks flying over Belfast.
“Quack quack” says one
The other replies “I,m going as quack as I can”

by SecretFly Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:33 pm

That's a good one. Maybe it's an old one but if it is, I ain't heard it before. So that's a fresh laugh from me.

Waddle you come up with next, Geen?

by The Great Aukster Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:40 pm

marty2086 wrote:Who exactly were they going to scout? Are they really going to approach a player and ask them to sit tight and not sign anything just in case Ulster need them to maybe, possibly be their second choice fly half? Not to mention getting the IRFU to sign off on it?

When exactly were the young kids going to get all this game time too? Curtis was just into the academy last season and wasn't McPhillips out inured for periods?

I hope Baldrick's recruitment patter is better than your's Marty, (although it would explain a lot). Ulster were losing their second and third choice 10s, and chose not to recruit a replacement. Any side expecting to get through a season with only one quality fly half has either low ambition or low intelligence, no ifs buts or maybes.
Considering McPhillips was the leading points scorer in the B & I competition, he couldn't have been injured too much that season, and must have been showing some form. Forwards are supposed to take longer to break through, so what must McPhillips have been thinking as he watched his teammates: Porter, Ryan and Deegan all make their debuts last season into a Leinster side with awesome depth in front of them?

Kiss as DoR and Cunningplan who is in charge of both recruitment and succession planning decided to go into a season with only one proven 10 and no plan b. This decision also taken in a climate of uncertainty over the availability of the one fly half they did have, makes it even more ridiculous!

by clivemcl Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:00 pm

Did they not sign Windsor and Herron in the hope they would be half decent though? Those signing don't do much for Bryn's reputation.
That said, at the time, his hands were ties that we could only sign IQ.

by Pot Hale Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:21 am

SecretFly wrote:

That's a good one. Maybe it's an old one but if it is, I ain't heard it before. So that's a fresh laugh from me.

Waddle you come up with next, Geen?

I remember hearing it every night from comedian in a cabaret pub when I was 16/17, if that’s any help, Master Fly.

by The Great Aukster Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:26 am

Windsor was the season before but arguably one of Baldrick's better signings - it was only a one year deal! Herron has 8 appearances in two seasons and is already on the scrapheap - maybe Bryn's thinking is that he can do least harm by signing no one?

by toml Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:15 am

Interesting Ulster A scored their 3 tries from the forwards this week and all 4 the other week as well. Their pack serms to be working much better that the 1sts

by marty2086 Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:03 am

The Great Aukster wrote:Windsor was the season before but arguably one of Baldrick's better signings - it was only a one year deal! Herron has 8 appearances in two seasons and is already on the scrapheap - maybe Bryn's thinking is that he can do least harm by signing no one?

Who exactly should he have signed over the years then?

by Pete330v2 Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:47 am

We're just going to have to take this on the chin, blood the youngsters properly and let them at it. Paddy isn't coming back, let Bryn concentrate on getting us someone for next season and beyond, someone that can help develop our academy prospects would be nice. There will be options coming up in the near future so in Bryn we trust.
For the near future I would love to see Carberry head north for the remaining few months to play at 10 excusively. Joe surely would want that. The IRFU would surely want that. It'd be beneficial for all concerned.

by SecretFly Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:56 am

Pot Hale wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

That's a good one. Maybe it's an old one but if it is, I ain't heard it before. So that's a fresh laugh from me.

Waddle you come up with next, Geen?

I remember hearing it every night from comedian in a cabaret pub when I was 16/17, if that’s any help, Master Fly.

Ah that's why I missed it first time around, Pot. I've never been much for the comedy circuit. I don't mind funny people but someone like Billy Connelly walking all over a stage with a long black smock on him for an hour or two....

There is something demented about stand-up actually; because they are all basically one-man plays that are heavily rehearsed, the comedian is an actor; but the audience is meant to go along with the notion that they're just ordinary guys shooting out bullets of magical ad-libbed smartassedness. So maybe comedians are more like magicians - good at illusions. Whistle

Master Fly Diatribe: 624.8-B Wink

by marty2086 Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:58 am

Maybe Bryn was able to find a 10 on Sunday who is looking for a club for next season

by SecretFly Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:59 am

Pete330v2 wrote:We're just going to have to take this on the chin, blood the youngsters properly and let them at it. Paddy isn't coming back, let Bryn concentrate on getting us someone for next season and beyond, someone that can help develop our academy prospects would be nice. There will be options coming up in the near future so in Bryn we trust.
For the near future I would love to see Carberry head north for the remaining few months to play at 10 excusively. Joe surely would want that. The IRFU would surely want that. It'd be beneficial for all concerned.

Good idea Pete. I'd support that idea.

But...but...but yis can't have him forever like......... like it's just a loan..... with exorbitant interest rates..... coz Dubs like charging exorbitant rates for everything, as anyone who buys a latte and a scone knows only too well....

by eirebilly Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:01 am

Pete330v2 wrote:We're just going to have to take this on the chin, blood the youngsters properly and let them at it. Paddy isn't coming back, let Bryn concentrate on getting us someone for next season and beyond, someone that can help develop our academy prospects would be nice. There will be options coming up in the near future so in Bryn we trust.
For the near future I would love to see Carberry head north for the remaining few months to play at 10 excusively. Joe surely would want that. The IRFU would surely want that. It'd be beneficial for all concerned.

Are you sure of this? I am not sure of where the process is or if he could go to prison. Are you saying that Ulster would not take him back anyways?

by marty2086 Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:29 am

eirebilly wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:We're just going to have to take this on the chin, blood the youngsters properly and let them at it. Paddy isn't coming back, let Bryn concentrate on getting us someone for next season and beyond, someone that can help develop our academy prospects would be nice. There will be options coming up in the near future so in Bryn we trust.
For the near future I would love to see Carberry head north for the remaining few months to play at 10 excusively. Joe surely would want that. The IRFU would surely want that. It'd be beneficial for all concerned.

Are you sure of this? I am not sure of where the process is or if he could go to prison. Are you saying that Ulster would not take him back anyways?

He is seemingly unlikely to be welcome back due to his behaviour

by Redman Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:32 am

marty2086 wrote:Maybe Bryn was able to find a 10 on Sunday who is looking for a club for next season

We already have enough drink drivers on our roads. A supreme talent on his day, but not really a guiding light for our young players.

by eirebilly Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:35 am

Paddy would have to be proven guilty first would he not? Otherwise I cant see why Ulster would not welcome him back?

by marty2086 Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:40 am

eirebilly wrote:Paddy would have to be proven guilty first would he not? Otherwise I cant see why Ulster would not welcome him back?

Why? If he acted poorly they could still show him the door if they feel he doesn't fit with the standards they want to set regarding behaviour and character

by Standulstermen Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:42 am

Have to say I do enjoy reading Aukster have a go at Cunningham. I’m not convinced one way or another on what he has done but when we wer challenging we had

Afoa
Muller
Pienaar
Wannenburg

As our NIQs. Compare that to now and VDM/Afoa, Wannenburg/Deysel (the others are a bit too different to compare) and it doesn’t look good. We really need to start from scratch on the NIQ front (if that’s even possible) and trust the young guys.

On Jackson
Probably best not talking about the case lads but I’m not convinced he will be back in white or green again no matter what happens

by eirebilly Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:42 am

But if found innocent then surely he did nothing wrong?

by marty2086 Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:45 am

eirebilly wrote:But if found innocent then surely he did nothing wrong?

Means he did nothing illegal, just because it isn't illegal doesn't mean you didn't act like an ar$ehole

I don't know any details just going on rumour and innuendo

by SecretFly Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:57 am

marty2086 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:But if found innocent then surely he did nothing wrong?

Means he did nothing illegal, just because it isn't illegal doesn't mean you didn't act like an ar$ehole

I don't know any details just going on rumour and innuendo

To be honest................. he's always acted a bit of an bumhole. But...but................ like he was a bloody kid and they all act like bumholes with their bloody selfies and '15 minutes of fame' antics for their 'followers'.

I don't know any details about anything but if Jackson did nothing illegal, it might not be the queasy behaviour I'd approve of but would he be the only player at Ulster that has a private party life that might make the eyes of 'normal' family men water?

If he's guilty then the story ends. If he's innocent then he remains a good 10 and does he deserve boycotting for being innocent of a crime? Is that not why the concept of guilt before it's proven is so dangerous a habit in these increasing censorious times?

by Pete330v2 Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:03 pm

eirebilly wrote:But if found innocent then surely he did nothing wrong?

If found innocent then their lives can go forward Billy. I was told only the other day, by a friend of Paddy's Mum that he doesn't want to come back to Ulster and he is looking elsewhere. Obviously this is still gossip despite who it has come from but it's what I've been told for some time anyway. A fresh start far from Belfast would keep his career on track at least.

by marty2086 Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:24 pm

Just going to leave this here Whistle

by **rodders** Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:26 pm

SecretFly wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:But if found innocent then surely he did nothing wrong?

Means he did nothing illegal, just because it isn't illegal doesn't mean you didn't act like an ar$ehole

I don't know any details just going on rumour and innuendo

To be honest................. he's always acted a bit of an bumhole. But...but................ like he was a bloody kid and they all act like bumholes with their bloody selfies and '15 minutes of fame' antics for their 'followers'.

I don't know any details about anything but if Jackson did nothing illegal, it might not be the queasy behaviour I'd approve of but would he be the only player at Ulster that has a private party life that might make the eyes of 'normal' family men water?

If he's guilty then the story ends. If he's innocent then he remains a good 10 and does he deserve boycotting for being innocent of a crime? Is that not why the concept of guilt before it's proven is so dangerous a habit in these increasing censorious times?

I suppose there are legal sensitivities around this as the guys are under contract.

If they are found innocent of any crime and not in breach of any club rules then the club can't just get rid of them.

What a mess the whole thing is.

by Redman Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:32 pm

I believe Bank of Ireland have expressed concerns about their antics and how it reflects on them as sponsors of a team that tolerates his and Olding's behaviour (behaviour which may or may not have been illegal).

Ulster and the IRFU will not want to upset them.

Once details of the night in question (and what was happening week in, week out there) come out very few will want to be associated with them in the short/medium term even if they're found innocent of the accusations.

by marty2086 Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:26 am

Two Ireland and Ulster rugby players are due to go on trial accused of r***.

Stuart Olding, 24, and Paddy Jackson, 26, are expected to appear before a judge at Belfast's Crown Court today.

Both Olding, of Ardenlee Street in Belfast, and Jackson, of Oakleigh Park in the city, are accused of raping the same woman at a property in south Belfast in June 2016.

Jackson also faces a further charge of indecent assault.

They have strenuously denied the charges.

Two other men have also been returned for trial on charges connected with the incident.

Blane McIlroy, 26, of Royal Lodge Road, Ballydollaghan, Belfast, is accused of one count of exposure.

Rory Harrison, 25, of Manse Road, Belfast, is charged with perverting the course of justice and withholding information.

All four have pleaded not guilty and are on bail.

The high-profile case, which could last up to five weeks, is being heard by Judge Patricia Smyth.

by **rodders** Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:07 am

Redman wrote:I believe Bank of Ireland have expressed concerns about their antics and how it reflects on them as sponsors of a team that tolerates his and Olding's behaviour (behaviour which may or may not have been illegal).

Ulster and the IRFU will not want to upset them.

Once details of the night in question (and what was happening week in, week out there) come out very few will want to be associated with them in the short/medium term even if they're found innocent of the accusations.

Then why don't Ulster cut them loose now and stop wasting time trying so sign short term cover at fly half?

by marty2086 Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:12 am

rodders wrote:
Redman wrote:I believe Bank of Ireland have expressed concerns about their antics and how it reflects on them as sponsors of a team that tolerates his and Olding's behaviour (behaviour which may or may not have been illegal).

Ulster and the IRFU will not want to upset them.

Once details of the night in question (and what was happening week in, week out there) come out very few will want to be associated with them in the short/medium term even if they're found innocent of the accusations.

Then why don't Ulster cut them loose now and stop wasting time trying so sign short term cover at fly half?

Because it's a legal minefield, if they cut them loose it can colour peoples opinion of the case

The short term signings are because of availability not because of Jackson still being under contract

by Redman Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:11 pm

A minefield but also Ulster haven't helped themselves. Regardless of the chances of them being charged Ulster weren't under any obligation to play them in the interim. If you remember Olding had 1 or 2 utterly dreadful matches in that period between the complaint being made and them being charged. Ulster could have quite easily said they didn't feel either player was in the right state of mind to play.

Not playing them but still honouring the contract would have been the legally prudent and PR safe approach. I'm not sure at Ulster's end what's changed between Ulster playing them in the interim, and all the talk now of them not being welcome back (regardless of the outcome of the trial).

by marty2086 Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:53 pm

A number of players had poor games in that period, he was also just back from injury too was he not?

The approach seems to have been keep it quiet and hope it went away, isn't Jackson suing the BBC for reporting the story?

The charges escalated the issue and the whole thing could become a distraction so best putting them into the background until the matter is dealt with

by Pete330v2 Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:05 pm

I see the case hearing has now been postponed for whatever reason.

by Redman Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:51 pm

marty2086 wrote:A number of players had poor games in that period, he was also just back from injury too was he not?

The approach seems to have been keep it quiet and hope it went away, isn't Jackson suing the BBC for reporting the story?

The charges escalated the issue and the whole thing could become a distraction so best putting them into the background until the matter is dealt with

Yeah the chages did escalate it and maybe I'm just being naive. At the point that Ulster became aware they should have made a judgement call on it from a gross misconduct point of view (but in no way prejudicing any potential criminal proceedings). Yes or No. Black or White. Either Ulster had a problem with the circumstances of the night or they didn't. Or I suppose even worse, they didn't bother to ask. To get holy handed after the charges just seems weak. That they're more concerned with the effect on their brand image than any particular principles at play.

by marty2086 Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:58 pm

Redman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:A number of players had poor games in that period, he was also just back from injury too was he not?

The approach seems to have been keep it quiet and hope it went away, isn't Jackson suing the BBC for reporting the story?

The charges escalated the issue and the whole thing could become a distraction so best putting them into the background until the matter is dealt with

Yeah the chages did escalate it and maybe I'm just being naive. At the point that Ulster became aware they should have made a judgement call on it from a gross misconduct point of view (but in no way prejudicing any potential criminal proceedings). Yes or No. Black or White. Either Ulster had a problem with the circumstances of the night or they didn't. Or I suppose even worse, they didn't bother to ask. To get holy handed after the charges just seems weak. That they're more concerned with the effect on their brand image than any particular principles at play.

There also becomes the issue of availability and their bail conditions, with European games, games in SA and Italy there may have been issues of being allowed to travel or being allowed into countries and it then becomes a cloud over certain games and a distraction. With hearings, trials, postponements etc too they might have to be in court and your left without a fly half for a game and no one to cover so they decided to write them off for the foreseeable future and make a decision when the case is resolved

by The Great Aukster Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:33 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Redman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:A number of players had poor games in that period, he was also just back from injury too was he not?

The approach seems to have been keep it quiet and hope it went away, isn't Jackson suing the BBC for reporting the story?

The charges escalated the issue and the whole thing could become a distraction so best putting them into the background until the matter is dealt with

Yeah the chages did escalate it and maybe I'm just being naive. At the point that Ulster became aware they should have made a judgement call on it from a gross misconduct point of view (but in no way prejudicing any potential criminal proceedings). Yes or No. Black or White. Either Ulster had a problem with the circumstances of the night or they didn't. Or I suppose even worse, they didn't bother to ask. To get holy handed after the charges just seems weak. That they're more concerned with the effect on their brand image than any particular principles at play.

There also becomes the issue of availability and their bail conditions, with European games, games in SA and Italy there may have been issues of being allowed to travel or being allowed into countries and it then becomes a cloud over certain games and a distraction. With hearings, trials, postponements etc too they might have to be in court and your left without a fly half for a game and no one to cover so they decided to write them off for the foreseeable future and make a decision when the case is resolved

When it became known that a file would be prepared by the police for the PPS, Ulster knew the case against their players was going to be serious, and when the USA didn't grant Jackson entry for the ABs game in November 2016, they knew the repercussions were real. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the players' situations, Ulster also knew Pienaar wouldn't be around and Humphreys had retired. Maybe Ulster couldn't attract a proven outhalf of any calibre, but it is incredible to listen to the Ulster spokespersons excusing away their ineptitude, as though the prosecutions had suddenly blindsided them in July 2017. Ulster through their very public catch-up actions - first Lealiifano, then Lealiifano leaving, then Donald coming, then not, (now who next?) - was a great way to remind everyone of the predicament that the Jackson and Olding situation had forced upon them. Seriously! Ulster's malaise is because they failed to sign a replacement for either Humphreys or Pienaar, someone who at least would have had a chance to settle in by now and no need for temporary fixes. The failure to do so has simply progressively turned fans against the defendants and has not only seen them vilified personally but by proxy blamed for Ulster's inconsistency on the pitch. Given the ham-fisted way UR have yet again mishandled a sensitive situation, it is little wonder that they will continue to struggle to sign the quality of player the fans deserve.

by clivemcl Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:41 pm

Are some of us forgetting that prior to the case Ulster would never have been allowed to sign an NIQ in the fly-half position. The short term Lealifano and (almost) Donald were special dispensation like medical jokers.
It could well be that the IRFU will withhold their permission for a long term NIQ 10 until they know Jackson's contract has been mutually terminated or he is found guilty.
We may be talking to NIQ10s but it's my hunch that we are not yet in a position to do any serious negotiations.

by marty2086 Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:28 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
When it became known that a file would be prepared by the police for the PPS, Ulster knew the case against their players was going to be serious, and when the USA didn't grant Jackson entry for the ABs game in November 2016, they knew the repercussions were real.

How did they know it would be serious? Most cases like this are referred to the PPS

US visas are also denied to people with convictions or under investigation for serious crimes

Starting to get the feeling Cunningham pi$$ed in your corn flakes at some point

by The Great Aukster Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:38 pm

Apparently Baldrick isn't t involved in any poor signings or missing any good ones, and Ulster would be the best team in the world if only he were given licence to get on with his job. Hence Cunningplan wasn't t mentioned in the above post as it was obviously others who chose to go into this season with only Jackson as the solitary 10 choice. It's totally weird how other clubs feel the need to have more than one player per position, as obviously there is no risk of injury or getting called up to Ireland or being rested... Indeed it was totally unpredictable that Jacko would not be available for every game, so Ulster should really just have a 23 man squad and should such unpredictable circumstances ever arise, whoever is Director of underwhelming short term signings will be able to find someone at short notice from south of the equator.
Ulster must be reaping the benefits of such a far-sighted policy.

by The Great Aukster Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:46 pm

Sorry for the mistake regarding the numbers, should have been 22 as Ulster don't have a spare flyhalf for the bench.

by clivemcl Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:48 pm

Aukster, you do realise we were only permitted to look at NIQs once Jackson went to trial?
Prior to that our scouting was limited to Irish qualified. Who would you have went for?
Bare in mind we signed a 9 with experience at 10. And most people based off last years performances felt Nelson was a good pro14 option in the 10 shirt.

by clivemcl Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:21 am

OK, now I'm doubting myself.... I'm pretty sure signing an NIQ 10 was not on the cards. But who knows... maybe after releasing Pienaar, we would have been allowed an NIQ 10 as long as they weren't displacing Jackson.
Did we want to waste an NIQ slot on a backup though?

by Standulstermen Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:38 am

clivemcl wrote:Aukster, you do realise we were only permitted to look at NIQs once Jackson went to trial?
Prior to that our scouting was limited to Irish qualified. Who would you have went for?
Bare in mind we signed a 9 with experience at 10. And most people based off last years performances felt Nelson was a good pro14 option in the 10 shirt.

You see the last sentence is where i have to scream in disagreement. a blind man on a galloping horse could have seen that Nelson was no more a Pro14 fly half than he was an astronaut. He was an empty shirt any time he wore the 10 shirt. (i would argue hes going that way in any shirt but the lads been pissed around enough). Now if our coaches couldn't see just how bad he was then it begs the question what game are they trying to play and if their confidence in him was so brittle that it took just one disaster in Connacht to completely drop him then you have to ask why we didn't just go with a youngster from the start as LL's backup.

There doesn't seem any thought process behind identification of backups in key positions or their selection

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