Ulster Rugby 2017-18

by Pot Hale Mon 1 Jan - 18:25

First topic message reminder :

Jeez - O’Donoghue eeled his way through that maul and caught Herring.

by Sin é Fri 2 Feb - 12:29

Pete330v2 wrote:The freedom of the press is something I support strongly but the freedom to create stories from the imagination of some 2nd rate journo I detest.

I must say, I was surprised to see Rory & Hendo attending the trial - not least for it being a major distraction/up set just before a big game on Saturday. Must of the court reporting was tough reading. Thankfully, I can only imagine what it would be liked if they were reporting someone I knew well and worked with. Rory is the Ireland captain as well, and this whole thing is just sordid.

by clivemcl Fri 2 Feb - 12:31

For me, the boys have acted in a way which means they should no longer be in positions of role models.

But this isn't a 'punishment' just IMO a necessity. Based purely on their potential influence on young ulster fans.

My feelings about Jackson and Olding range widely from disgust (admittedly) to disappointment, but also there are elements of sympathy and heartache.

We all make mistakes. Even if found guilty, there are limits to what I feel these people deserve to happen to them.

Should they receive the appropriate term in prison, absolutely. Should they be shunned and ridiculed by the whole of society and abandoned by their friends - No.

So when I see players attending the trial, my personal opinion is that that is a statement of 'Whatever you've done, I'm not turning my back on you'.

Which is admirable IMO.

This sadly is a symptom of modern society of NI. You have the liberals and the hardliners - poles apart.

But maybe, just maybe the best place for everyone is to stand for their beliefs, seek justice, but also seek to build relationship, rehabilitate.

Those who say 'whoever among you is without sin may cast the first stone' are not people calling for no punishment ever. It is simply an acknowledgement that we are all flawed, and susceptible to taking a combination of wrong steps and finding ourselves lost.

The moderate open minded middle ground is by far the least crowded space in our country, and often the hardest path to walk as you can receive criticism from both sides.

by marty2086 Fri 2 Feb - 12:31

Sin é wrote:Timing was very poor for their attendance when the woman was giving evidence. IRFU/Ulster Rugby should have told all their employees to just stay away from it. That way, the players would not feel obliged to show public support for anyone.

What would be a good plan though would be for the IRFU to arrange for all academy players / sub academy to spend a day at the trial - that would sort out the dressing room culture in every Province for the future.

I see that Rory is getting questioned about it in Paris.

Bringing a squad of young men representing Irish rugby and Ulster would really help counter the intimidation and the girl taking on Ulster Rugby narrative

by Sin é Fri 2 Feb - 12:38

marty2086 wrote:
Sin é wrote:Timing was very poor for their attendance when the woman was giving evidence. IRFU/Ulster Rugby should have told all their employees to just stay away from it. That way, the players would not feel obliged to show public support for anyone.

What would be a good plan though would be for the IRFU to arrange for all academy players / sub academy to spend a day at the trial - that would sort out the dressing room culture in every Province for the future.

I see that Rory is getting questioned about it in Paris.

Bringing a squad of young men representing Irish rugby and Ulster would really help counter the intimidation and the girl taking on Ulster Rugby narrative.

Its a five week trial. Bring them on a day that the woman in question isn't on the stand (and maybe in lots of 3/4).

by marty2086 Fri 2 Feb - 12:44

Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Sin é wrote:Timing was very poor for their attendance when the woman was giving evidence. IRFU/Ulster Rugby should have told all their employees to just stay away from it. That way, the players would not feel obliged to show public support for anyone.

What would be a good plan though would be for the IRFU to arrange for all academy players / sub academy to spend a day at the trial - that would sort out the dressing room culture in every Province for the future.

I see that Rory is getting questioned about it in Paris.

Bringing a squad of young men representing Irish rugby and Ulster would really help counter the intimidation and the girl taking on Ulster Rugby narrative.

Its a five week trial. Bring them on a day that the woman in question isn't on the stand (and maybe in lots of 3/4).

And then the claim is they are attempting to intimidate all the witnesses, just a slippery slope

The idea is a well intentioned one but don't the NFL run inductions every year with drafted players on behaviour etc? Maybe something like that would help and less of a PR disaster

by rapidsnowman Fri 2 Feb - 12:50

I think the fact it is all playing out so publicly will hopefully cause a lot of people to wise up - not just rugby players.

by RF09 Fri 2 Feb - 13:17

IMO - its just not well advised for the players and the club to be visible while this all plays out in courts and the media. Its clear it will be seen in both ways..i.e. Admirable or unadvised support.
But I'd have thought support could be shown privately...We know how the media would lap all this up! Courts will decide their fate but either way their chances of playing for the club again are...X
End of for me...

I'd like to focus on where the club move forward in handling this sordid saga and the other facets going on at the moment including structure, coaches, player fractions/behaviour if there are issues there...I have no idea whats going on internally, but from the outside.. It looks like it needs some assertive leadership and structure! (clear roles in the org and within the DOR/playing/coaching facets)

When I refered to "HumpDOR"(Control freak or not)/McGlock(Coach) - I was not talking about results, I was referring to the structure...It seemed, at least stable! (PS Was Fergie a control freak? you bet your sweet *** Very Happy

)

by marty2086 Fri 2 Feb - 13:30

Things weren't exactly stable under the Reid system and we won the league, they have been stable and unstable since 2009 and we've won diddly squat

I did see this blog today, first thing that came to mind was Ulster

When talking about leadership there are words like ”optimism”, ”freedom”, ”enabling” and ”motivation” along with other words that sound very good that are being thrown around by people who probably mean well. However, they may be missing out on the biggest difference maker and what should be the starting point of all leadership, regardless if it’s in business or in sports.

Imagine that you start a new job tomorrow at a company that you always dreamed to work at. This job is, at least on paper, everything that you always wanted. When you walk through the door of your new company there is a smile on your face and the feeling of motivation to succeed flows through your body. The receptionist welcomes you with a low toned voice while avoiding eye contact and you notice that there is no smile even though the words that come out of the receptionists mouth normally promote smiling by most people. You think it is strange that this is the way you are welcomed by your new co-worker, but maybe this person is only having ”a bad day”. However, after spending 10 minutes in the office with your new boss you get a feeling that the receptionist wasn’t only having a ”bad day” but that there might be something more to this picture. In those 10 minutes your boss avoided eye contact the whole time, never smiled, interrupted you multiple times and actually yelled at his assistant once.

Now, after your meeting with the boss it seems obvious to you that the reason for what you perceived as strange behavior from the receptionist was actually the result of the culture at this company. But you wonder how it could be possible that such a good organization that undoubtedly has many competent people that are some of the best in their fields can rot and become a place where people look like they’re miserable?

The answer starts at the top with the leadership and trickle down the organization. Even though the boss used all of the fancy words it didn’t matter since they where not said with sincerity and the actions didn’t match the words. If you are a parent, you know all about this fact, that your child will do what you do – not what you say. This also holds true in leadership, and in the same way that you have to be a good role model for your kids, you have to be a role model for your players. If you as the leader of the company goes home a quarter earlier then everyone else everyday, how can you expect that your employees will put in the extra hours for free? If you are the coach of a team and show up 10 minutes late to every training, how can you demand that your players show up on time? It’s impossible, but still it’s done everyday all over the world. So, to become a good leader, the first step is to start leading by example. Only demand of others what you are willing to sacrifice yourself, or in other words, be a (good) role model for your organization!

https://mwalfridson.com/2017/02/05/are-you-leading-by-example/

by **rodders** Fri 2 Feb - 13:37

Unfortunately I have to say it was a major error of judgement by Best in particular.

If the IRFU knew about it then they need to accept the blow back here in terms of the negative publicity and disruption to the team, if they didn't know then they should punish the players.

As has been stated elsewhere the only way this can be perceived, given Best is Irish captain is a public show of support by the IRFU and something that could potentially influence the jury.

by marty2086 Fri 2 Feb - 13:56

rodders wrote:
If the IRFU knew about it then they need to accept the blow back here in terms of the negative publicity and disruption to the team, if they didn't know then they should punish the players.

Sorry the stupid around this subject is getting ridiculous, punish players for what? Exercising their human right of free movement?

by SecretFly Fri 2 Feb - 14:03

I said I wouldn't say anything for a few weeks...but it's impossible to stay completely silent...

"punish players for what? Exercising their human right of free movement?"

I have nothing to say about the players that showed or to query why they showed up...just this: maybe someone can tell me because I'm honestly not up to date on all the rig outs; - but Rory and Henderson looked like either twins (of the DeVito/Arnold kind) or they looked to be in some kind of team kit (leisure wear?)
If it is indeed, off-duty style kit, which off-duty style leisure wear kit is it? IRFU Ireland International or Ulster Provincial?

by **profitius** Fri 2 Feb - 14:05

marty2086 wrote:Apparently some politicians have written to Ulster asking what advice was given to players regarding attending court in support of their team mates

This was the front of yesterdays Irish Times, Rory coming in for a lot of stick as apparently it's seen as intimidation and seemingly condones a r*** culture

What that picture is also doing is subliminally saying that Jackson and Olding are guilty because they're making a big deal of Best attending. The media are very slimy that way. They know how to get a message across without saying the words.

by SecretFly Fri 2 Feb - 14:12

So I'm about to go out for a few hours....anyone know the answer to my query? Is it a kit? If so, which kit is it?

by clivemcl Fri 2 Feb - 14:31

Na, I think it's either a coincidence, or at very least a dress guide for something. I mean, they aren't matching in anything but the colours. Certainly not a uniform or an outfit they've been given to wear.

by **rodders** Fri 2 Feb - 14:34

marty2086 wrote:
rodders wrote:
If the IRFU knew about it then they need to accept the blow back here in terms of the negative publicity and disruption to the team, if they didn't know then they should punish the players.

Sorry the stupid around this subject is getting ridiculous, punish players for what? Exercising their human right of free movement?

It's not getting ridiculous at all, unless you think gang r*** is a trivial thing to be accused of.

Best is the Ireland captain, to attend this trial 2 days before the 6N kicks off, whilst in Ireland camp is disgraceful and has brought a barrage of negative publicity that the team don't need.

Whether or not he supports his teammates or not is up to him but it should and could have been done so privately, rather than what only can be perceived as a public show of support. To do so on the day the alleged victim was giving evidence is even worse.

If Schmidt agreed to this then he is culpable too.

by SecretFly Fri 2 Feb - 14:35

Hmmm................. seems even a more strange occurrence if it isn't a kit.

Of course if it were a kit, from either Province or International, then yep, that would need explaining as they'd have been present as representatives of something rather than simply being private citizens with a personal interest in the case.

But if it is a coincidence........................ well, no, I couldn't believe that so I'd have to go with your idea of a 'dress guide for something'.

by The Great Aukster Fri 2 Feb - 15:08

The IRFU and Ulster have handled the whole sorry affair abysmally for a year and a half, and they aren't about to change the habits of a lifetime.

The problem is that the players have been tried by media and already convicted. Should UR or their players bow to that pressure? If any organisation had a brand ambassador in the dock, would they not be expected to at least witness the proceedings? Creating distance simply gives the message that they have already made up their minds regarding guilt or innocence and want nothing to do with them - is this the message that UR should be espousing? Irrespective of the accuracy of the reporting thus far, surely an organisation that wants to show it takes player welfare seriously, should be taking the default position until the concluding decision?

It seems many would prefer to dispense with the due process, simply because a journalist says so.

by marty2086 Fri 2 Feb - 15:16

rodders wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
rodders wrote:
If the IRFU knew about it then they need to accept the blow back here in terms of the negative publicity and disruption to the team, if they didn't know then they should punish the players.

Sorry the stupid around this subject is getting ridiculous, punish players for what? Exercising their human right of free movement?

It's not getting ridiculous at all, unless you think gang r*** is a trivial thing to be accused of.

Best is the Ireland captain, to attend this trial 2 days before the 6N kicks off, whilst in Ireland camp is disgraceful and has brought a barrage of negative publicity that the team don't need.

Whether or not he supports his teammates or not is up to him but it should and could have been done so privately, rather than what only can be perceived as a public show of support. To do so on the day the alleged victim was giving evidence is even worse.

If Schmidt agreed to this then he is culpable too.

What's stupid is your claim he should be punished, he's done nothing wrong. He and everyone has a right to be there, not only would it probably be illegal for him to be punished it would insinuate he has done something wrong and what ever side he comes down on is the wrong one

by geoff999rugby Fri 2 Feb - 16:19

Agreed punishing players who attend is stupid and probably illegal

by Standulstermen Fri 2 Feb - 16:39

Players are going to feel to feel obliged if their friends have asked them for support. Sorry but friendships trump public perception in my book. I understand the fallout and im sure Best did before he went. He can take it.

Rodders
If your friend told you he was accused of r*** but that he was innocent and he would appreciate your support (on the only day you are able to be there) would you not go? I would. Thats what this boils down to. As Aukster says these lads have been found guilty already which is why the headlines aren't about Best attending a trial to support two potentially innocent men. Its a mark of where we have fallen to as a species.

by clivemcl Fri 2 Feb - 18:23

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42917858

It's bad whenever your defense team have to argue the boys were merely fulfilling the fantasy of a starstruck fan...

by JmD Fri 2 Feb - 18:29

Iain Henderson has known Stuart Olding for a very, very long time. The two have even lived together in recent years. Let me ask you all a question: If one of your oldest personal friends was accused of something like this, would you not want to see/hear what was going on first hand? Regardless of whether you believed the accusations or supported the person.

If anything is most likely, I would dare guess that Best was there to support Henderson, and not the defendants.

by Kingshu Fri 2 Feb - 18:30

This is ridiculous every snowflake is jumping invtrying to say the right thing and pretending to be annoyed, MPs writing to Ulster rugby and IRFU etc. Without thinking it though.

These men are assumed innocent untill proven guilty. So supporting them at this stage is the correct thing to do. There should be no turmoil about it.
Yes they have some bad acusations against them but you cannot stop contact with someone over that or it says more about you. Would you abandon a friend if they are accused of something? What if they are then found innocent, what sort of friend does that make you, ditching someone just when thier life gets tough and they need you most.

If they are found guiltythats a differnent storey but lets not forget they are assumped innocent untill then.

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 2 Feb - 19:22

Kingshu wrote:This is ridiculous every snowflake is jumping invtrying to say the right thing and pretending to be annoyed, MPs writing to Ulster rugby and IRFU etc. Without thinking it though.

These men are assumed innocent untill proven guilty. So supporting them at this stage is the correct thing to do. There should be no turmoil about it.
Yes they have some bad acusations against them but you cannot stop contact with someone over that or it says more about you. Would you abandon a friend if they are accused of something? What if they are then found innocent, what sort of friend does that make you, ditching someone just when thier life gets tough and they need you most.

If they are found guiltythats a differnent storey but lets not forget they are assumped innocent untill then.

Not these days unfortunately...these cases are now a trial by media #metoo.

by Sin é Fri 2 Feb - 21:18

Kingshu wrote:This is ridiculous every snowflake is jumping invtrying to say the right thing and pretending to be annoyed, MPs writing to Ulster rugby and IRFU etc. Without thinking it though.

These men are assumed innocent untill proven guilty. So supporting them at this stage is the correct thing to do. There should be no turmoil about it.
Yes they have some bad acusations against them but you cannot stop contact with someone over that or it says more about you. Would you abandon a friend if they are accused of something? What if they are then found innocent, what sort of friend does that make you, ditching someone just when thier life gets tough and they need you most.

If they are found guiltythats a differnent storey but lets not forget they are assumped innocent untill then.

Even if they are innocent, their lifestyle choice is appalling, and not the image one would want for a sport espousing to have high family values. They are terrible role models that have demonstrated very clearly that they have no respect for women.

by Standulstermen Fri 2 Feb - 22:08

Sin é wrote:
Kingshu wrote:This is ridiculous every snowflake is jumping invtrying to say the right thing and pretending to be annoyed, MPs writing to Ulster rugby and IRFU etc. Without thinking it though.

These men are assumed innocent untill proven guilty. So supporting them at this stage is the correct thing to do. There should be no turmoil about it.
Yes they have some bad acusations against them but you cannot stop contact with someone over that or it says more about you. Would you abandon a friend if they are accused of something? What if they are then found innocent, what sort of friend does that make you, ditching someone just when thier life gets tough and they need you most.

If they are found guiltythats a differnent storey but lets not forget they are assumped innocent untill then.

Even if they are innocent, their lifestyle choice is appalling, and not the image one would want for a sport espousing to have high family values. They are terrible role models that have demonstrated very clearly that they have no respect for women.

100% correct Sin and if you go into 70/80% of sports clubs up and down the country you will find similar language used regarding ( consensual) sexual exploits or conquests. That doesn't absolve it and im sure Ulster and the IRFU will cut ties if they are found innocent and rightly so. doesn't make them guilty though.

by neilthom7 Fri 2 Feb - 22:17

The MLA writing to Ulster rugby is an absolute show that this is trial by media, would they be writing to our employer if this was any of us accused and some of our friends attended (whether they were supporting us or not) I very much doubt it

Maybe our MLA's should focus on actually going out and doing their jobs rather than getting paid to literally not even go to work. Would be better than feigning outrage to get some headlines. I would be cynical over whether they have any real interest or concern for the accuser or the defendants.

by geoff999rugby Fri 2 Feb - 23:04

So an MLA robbing the public purse, doing sweet FA, is moralising about a case she knows nothing about. vomit

Tell her to sling her hook, keep her nose out and do some bloody work furious

Alliance just lost my vote at the next NI election

by clivemcl Sat 3 Feb - 0:06

Well that's Alliance for you - the liberal left who in recent years spend all their time getting up in the morning looking for something to be offended about.
Unless of course its related to the troubles or divided communities in which case nobody is allowed to be outraged about anything and all the sorrow, angst and trauma is just a trivial thing that people should 'get over'.

by Sin é Sat 3 Feb - 0:23

Standulstermen wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Kingshu wrote:This is ridiculous every snowflake is jumping invtrying to say the right thing and pretending to be annoyed, MPs writing to Ulster rugby and IRFU etc. Without thinking it though.

These men are assumed innocent untill proven guilty. So supporting them at this stage is the correct thing to do. There should be no turmoil about it.
Yes they have some bad acusations against them but you cannot stop contact with someone over that or it says more about you. Would you abandon a friend if they are accused of something? What if they are then found innocent, what sort of friend does that make you, ditching someone just when thier life gets tough and they need you most.

If they are found guiltythats a differnent storey but lets not forget they are assumped innocent untill then.

Even if they are innocent, their lifestyle choice is appalling, and not the image one would want for a sport espousing to have high family values. They are terrible role models that have demonstrated very clearly that they have no respect for women.

100% correct Sin and if you go into 70/80% of sports clubs up and down the country you will find similar language used regarding ( consensual) sexual exploits or conquests. That doesn't absolve it and im sure Ulster and the IRFU will cut ties if they are found innocent and rightly so. doesn't make them guilty though.

The content of the messages exchanged afterwards is demeaning and disrespectful and not something the Irish/Ulster captain should be associating himself with.

by Sin é Sat 3 Feb - 0:28

neilthom7 wrote:The MLA writing to Ulster rugby is an absolute show that this is trial by media, would they be writing to our employer if this was any of us accused and some of our friends attended (whether they were supporting us or not) I very much doubt it

Maybe our MLA's should focus on actually going out and doing their jobs rather than getting paid to literally not even go to work. Would be better than feigning outrage to get some headlines. I would be cynical over whether they have any real interest or concern for the accuser or the defendants.

Is Ulster Rugby in receipt of funds from NI Executive (presumably they are for amateur game)? If so, there is an onus on them to uphold certain moral standards.

Don't know anything about MLA, but if its an Alliance party MLA, there is very little they can do to get the Stormont Excecutive up and running. That is up to the DUP & Sinn Fein who are voted in. If more people voted Alliance, there probably would be a Government in Stormont.

by Redman Sat 3 Feb - 1:13

Is there any chance one of the said players will be called as a witness?

It has been said that at least one of the a fore mentioned players was at the party when this happened (thought totally excluded from any accusations thankfully).

If there was any chance I was called to testify at something like this I'd certainly consider attending beforehand to get a handle on what was to come.

All speculation of course but it certainly wouldn't be unreasonable for my captain to come and support me in doing so.

by Redman Sat 3 Feb - 1:19

It's worth saying that THERE ARE OTHER ULSTER PLAYERS connected to this.

As an example,

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2017/04/12/12/29/three-grenoble-players-charged-with-r***

Farrell got interviewed, but as it turns out he was there as a witness to the whole thing and again, thankfully, uninvolved.

The damage control for Best attending may be to support players who could be pulled into this mess, rather than support players already caught up in it.

by Standulstermen Sat 3 Feb - 1:22

Sin é wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Kingshu wrote:This is ridiculous every snowflake is jumping invtrying to say the right thing and pretending to be annoyed, MPs writing to Ulster rugby and IRFU etc. Without thinking it though.

These men are assumed innocent untill proven guilty. So supporting them at this stage is the correct thing to do. There should be no turmoil about it.
Yes they have some bad acusations against them but you cannot stop contact with someone over that or it says more about you. Would you abandon a friend if they are accused of something? What if they are then found innocent, what sort of friend does that make you, ditching someone just when thier life gets tough and they need you most.

If they are found guiltythats a differnent storey but lets not forget they are assumped innocent untill then.

Even if they are innocent, their lifestyle choice is appalling, and not the image one would want for a sport espousing to have high family values. They are terrible role models that have demonstrated very clearly that they have no respect for women.

100% correct Sin and if you go into 70/80% of sports clubs up and down the country you will find similar language used regarding ( consensual) sexual exploits or conquests. That doesn't absolve it and im sure Ulster and the IRFU will cut ties if they are found innocent and rightly so. doesn't make them guilty though.

The content of the messages exchanged afterwards is demeaning and disrespectful and not something the Irish/Ulster captain should be associating himself with.

In what way has Rory Best associated himself with those messages. Was he wearing a 'Top Shaggers' t shirt or something? You're sullying a happily married man and father of three who hasn't had so much as a slap on the wrist at any stage of his what, 18 yr career. Rory Best should be judged by his actions and not those of Stuart Olding and Paddy Jackson or is Rory on trial for the crimes theyre accused of too? that seems to extension to the logic you are using

by Redman Sat 3 Feb - 1:24

Infact, let me correct that immediately. Connected is too strong a word.

There are Ulster players who, while have it seems they have committed no crime, may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, are not completely removed from this incident.

That's better.

by Standulstermen Sat 3 Feb - 1:25

Sin é wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:The MLA writing to Ulster rugby is an absolute show that this is trial by media, would they be writing to our employer if this was any of us accused and some of our friends attended (whether they were supporting us or not) I very much doubt it

Maybe our MLA's should focus on actually going out and doing their jobs rather than getting paid to literally not even go to work. Would be better than feigning outrage to get some headlines. I would be cynical over whether they have any real interest or concern for the accuser or the defendants.

Is Ulster Rugby in receipt of funds from NI Executive (presumably they are for amateur game)? If so, there is an onus on them to uphold certain moral standards.

Don't know anything about MLA, but if its an Alliance party MLA, there is very little they can do to get the Stormont Excecutive up and running. That is up to the DUP & Sinn Fein who are voted in. If more people voted Alliance, there probably would be a Government in Stormont.

Is the whole point that nobody is in receipt of funds from the executive atm because there is no executive atm?

by geoff999rugby Sat 3 Feb - 8:06

by geoff999rugby Sat 3 Feb - 8:08

clivemcl wrote:Well that's Alliance for you - the liberal left who in recent years spend all their time getting up in the morning looking for something to be offended about.
Unless of course its related to the troubles or divided communities in which case nobody is allowed to be outraged about anything and all the sorrow, angst and trauma is just a trivial thing that people should 'get over'.

Whilst I deploy her intervention I think the above is nonsense

To be fair Paula Bradshaw was an Ulster Unionist member most of her life - doesn't sound like she has shed their self serving sanctimonious mind set yet
Enough of the politics Run

by The Great Aukster Sat 3 Feb - 9:51

Paula who?

Oh I forgot, another opportunist politician trying to tap into populist opinion and sway a few votes her way. Hypocrite! The very party that is supposed to take an empathetic open-minded view has an advocate demonstrating the opposite.
How can she presume to comment on the motivation of any person present at the trial, let alone specifically pick Rory Best, the Ireland Captain on the eve of the Six Nations? Er... oh yeah!

The holier than thou Dublin press are obviously setting up the Ulster players should Ireland lose, and no doubt will be calling for Rory's head in that eventuality - but at least their level of reporting is consistent with the gutter it normally runs through. I have a lot of time for Naomi Long as a person, but if her party politicians are allowed to get away with this level of duplicity, perhaps she is not the person I thought she was.

by geoff999rugby Sat 3 Feb - 10:23

I met Naomi Long, a person of great character and sincerity
However just quickly scanned through a brief history of Paula Bradshaw - what a self serving scum bag she is

- Not adverse to attacks on the Nationalist community.
- Ironically tried to undermine the Attorney General on another issue - quickly withdrew tweet when threatened with legal action.
- A party official of the Ulster Unionist who jumped ship solely to further her political career - nothing to do with conviction.

Naomi needs to ditch this cuckoo in the nest, who is using the Alliance party for her own agenda - which is not a edifying one

by marty2086 Sat 3 Feb - 12:11

geoff999rugby wrote:I met Naomi Long, a person of great character and sincerity
However just quickly scanned through a brief history of Paula Bradshaw - what a self serving scum bag she is

- Not adverse to attacks on the Nationalist community.
- Ironically tried to undermine the Attorney General on another issue - quickly withdrew tweet when threatened with legal action.
- A party official of the Ulster Unionist who jumped ship solely to further her political career - nothing to do with conviction.

Naomi needs to ditch this cuckoo in the nest, who is using the Alliance party for her own agenda - which is not a edifying one

Given the odds that Ulster players could be called as witnesses somewhere along the way by either side, it's not exactly advisable that an elected representative to question players showing support for one side or the other. How will any players or members of the organisation feel about showing support or the mere inference of showing support if they fear might be publicly castigated for it.

by Standulstermen Sat 3 Feb - 12:19

It also implies that because of their job they do not have the same rights as other people. Thats the inference here.

by MUNCH Sat 3 Feb - 13:34

Good on Rory and Hendo showing support for their friends. That's what real friends do.

Those who disagree can shove it up their pipe, including that Bat Paula Bradshaw.

by Kingshu Sat 3 Feb - 21:42

So Best was advised to attend as he may be called as a character witness. And to make an informed decision on that.

Wonder if over the top press and MPs will tweet apolgises about someone going to court to help make a better informed decision. Even the morally outraged would say attending to make an informed decision is the correct and moral thing to do.

Anyone still calling on the IRFU to punish him? Or are yous feeling stupid right now. Maybe best not to jump to conclusions again or comment on it untill the case is over?

by marty2086 Sat 3 Feb - 22:24

Unlikely apologies will be forthcoming and given he has spoken publicly now it probably means he will take the stand and be further criticised

by Standulstermen Sat 3 Feb - 22:27

I see #notmycaptain was trending today too. What a bunch of assholes some irish 'fans' are. Fair play Rory

by SecretFly Sat 3 Feb - 22:36

Maybe this thread should give it a break for a while? I mean, the point being made here over and over seems to be that too many people that know nothing are saying too much in public (journalists/politicians/etc)?

But this is also a public forum. And the more that gets said here lately, the more recriminations about everything and everyone seem to be magnified. Players are being dragged through it here too - not just in Tweets, Twitters and Dublin papers.

Maybe letting the trial happen might help calm the situation and keep the player (non charged ones!) comments firmly on the 6N?
I hinted earlier that whoever timed this trial to happen just now are basterdes. And they are. And it's no bloody coincidence. And I don't care if they're judges, solicitors or clerks or their behind the scenes influencers - they're basterdes the lot of them because this was designed for highest profile time.

by Standulstermen Sat 3 Feb - 22:39

I've been less concerned with the trial than defending Best in fairness but you're probably right FLy

by geoff999rugby Sat 3 Feb - 23:38

So legal requirement to attend.

Apology please Bradshaw and also those ill informed fans criticising.
Did they expect him to be in contempt of court to satisfy their moralistic purity

by Pete330v2 Sun 4 Feb - 9:17

It was always going to be the case that gutter press and self-righteous, misguided politicians would jump on this and that's why I thought the lads were better to stay away. Will the scumbag MLA or the Irish Times apologise? Unlikely but I'm very glad to have had the wrong opinion. I should have known Rory's judgement wasn't so misguided.

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