Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

Jeez - O’Donoghue eeled his way through that maul and caught Herring.

Standulstermen wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Interesting what you are saying there Geoff although i find it hard to believe any UR player would go unless it was to support them. Unless they are possible witnesses

Really? I think some of the reporting of the case pretty much suggested a reason why they might not be there supporting them

If you are referring to the 'taking on Ulster Rugby' narrative Marty and the implication of Best and Hendo being there as some kind of intimidation then thats just daft

Not that youre referring to it, but rather the narrative itself

Not referring to that in anyway and think geoff has been clear on it

I don't think the media could clarify why they are there unless they have it from the horses mouth.

I can only think of 3 reasons they would be there:

1. support the defendants (what most people will think)
2. support the young lady (not the first conclusion I would jump to)
3. nosey

Geoff's comments would imply that rather than support for the duo within the walls of UR there is actually antipathy.

marty2086 wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Interesting what you are saying there Geoff although i find it hard to believe any UR player would go unless it was to support them. Unless they are possible witnesses

Really? I think some of the reporting of the case pretty much suggested a reason why they might not be there supporting them

If you are referring to the 'taking on Ulster Rugby' narrative Marty and the implication of Best and Hendo being there as some kind of intimidation then thats just daft

Not that youre referring to it, but rather the narrative itself

Not referring to that in anyway and think geoff has been clear on it

ah sorry what Geoff was saying. yeah dont wanna get into that. i misunderstood you

[quote="rapidsnowman"]I don't think the media could clarify why they are there unless they have it from the horses mouth.

True, perhaps Ulster Rugby should be a little more vocal because as you've stated, the majority of people will assume they are supporting the defendants.

Pete330v2 wrote:

rapidsnowman wrote:I don't think the media could clarify why they are there unless they have it from the horses mouth.

rapidsnowman wrote:

True, perhaps Ulster Rugby should be a little more vocal because as you've stated, the majority of people will assume they are supporting the defendants.

Yes that's one way to help the situation, provide statements that could have an impact on legal proceedings

BelTel reporting the decision was made months ago for Kiss to go but the IRFU weren't in favour of it

The Ulster threads have become a hornet's nest.  It's kinda too dangerous to say anything really. We're all maybe reading between the lines too much - as people tend to do with scraps of detail and loads of conjecture.  Things I feel need to be let take their course for a bit now, maybe in both spheres of recent influence - the admin issues and the court cases.

I've been prompted to comment on a few things this morning but then, really, I thought better of it.  It's all much too complex now and maybe time to let the experts do their job.  I'll leave you guys to it for a month or so.

Comment in article on Les Kiss in the Indo.

.... when the accused pair Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding were ''relieved of their duties and obligations" by the IRFU in July, against the wishes of some senior players. Both men deny the charges.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/comment-ulster-in-need-of-much-more-than-a-change-of-coach-36554402.html

Were the 2 players sacked by the IRFU already and what senior players were supporting them.

My theory on Ulster is that it seems to be fragmented with no one really in charge (so where does the buck stop). In the case of the other Provinces, the CEO (reports directly to the IRFU) does the hiring and firing (including appointing DoR/Head Coach). The problem with Ulster is that Logan doesn't have a background in rugby, so he would be unable to select and appoint a head coach, so he can't carry the can for coach appointment and failure on the pitch.

I'll go back to a comment that Alan Quinlan reported of something that David Humphreys said when Ulster appointed Anscombe and Munster appointed Penney. Quinlan asked Humphreys if they had looked at Penney and Humphreys said yes, but they thought his personality was too strong. A strong personality is exactly what Ulster needs and in fact, Rob Penney might be the type of coach that would suit Ulster.

While at Munster, he got a lot out of a fairly young, inexperienced team.

Sin é wrote: The problem with Ulster is that Logan doesn't have a background in rugby, so he would be unable to select and appoint a head coach, so he can't carry the can for coach appointment and failure on the pitch.

Well he can because he sacked Anscombe after Humph left, so someone had to be hired.

I wouldn't say the current issues started at this point, if it was all good then Humph wouldn't have jumped ship so abruptly but in my opinion we have been in freefall since then and haven't hit rock bottom yet, although it looks like we are getting there.

100% right Sin. Sure wasn't Matt Sexton the number 1 choice (at the time of Anscombes hire) but he wanted his own team and Humph wouldn't allow it. The sad thing is we are in the situation now where we have two coaches under contract that an incoming DoR may need to 'inherit' as opposed to appointing his own right away

Standulstermen wrote:100% right Sin. Sure wasn't Matt Sexton the number 1 choice (at the time of Anscombes hire) but he wanted his own team and Humph wouldn't allow it. The sad thing is we are in the situation now where we have two coaches under contract that an incoming DoR may need to 'inherit' as opposed to appointing his own right away

Who said they will appoint a DoR?

Could well be Bryn takes care of recruitment and Gibbes or a head coach is left to coach and pick the team

well i think that was the initial implication marty as Gibbes doesn't want to be the number 1

marty2086 wrote:Yes that's one way to help the situation, provide statements that could have an impact on legal proceedings

1. You have ascribed a quote to me that was Pete

2. I was pointing out the media can't speculate who the Ulster players are there to support

3. I wasn't suggesting anyone provide statements about anything.

I was pointing out that I didn't think it looked good for current ulster players to be attending the trial.

And they used to say RoryGallagher was sanctimonious

The king is dead, long live the king

rapidsnowman wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Yes that's one way to help the situation, provide statements that could have an impact on legal proceedings

1. You have ascribed a quote to me that was Pete

2. I was pointing out the media can't speculate who the Ulster players are there to support

3. I wasn't suggesting anyone provide statements about anything.

I was pointing out that I didn't think it looked good for current ulster players to be attending the trial.

And they used to say RoryGallagher was sanctimonious

The king is dead, long live the king

1.You can blame Pete for that not me

2.I was addressing Pete

3. I never said you did

Ulster talked to Cheika when Anscombe was appointed.

He was not interested because Humphreys insisted in retaining control

In the short term the Logan-Humphreys duo had some real success
In the long term that duo have been directly, or indirectly, responsible for a total mess of a club.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote: The problem with Ulster is that Logan doesn't have a background in rugby, so he would be unable to select and appoint a head coach, so he can't carry the can for coach appointment and failure on the pitch.

Well he can because he sacked Anscombe after Humph left, so someone had to be hired.

I wouldn't say the current issues started at this point, if it was all good then Humph wouldn't have jumped ship so abruptly but in my opinion we have been in freefall since then and haven't hit rock bottom yet, although it looks like we are getting there.

When things go wrong in Leinster and Munster, the people who get it in the ear is Mick Dawson and Garret Fitzgerald. I don't see that happening in Ulster probably because Logan doesn't appoint the coaches (though he can sack them).

Surely there must be a former player who has business experience and is capable of running Ulster Rugby? I'd imagine that it would be important for any head coach who comes in to know that they have the support and understanding of who they should be reporting to.

marty2086 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

rapidsnowman wrote:I don't think the media could clarify why they are there unless they have it from the horses mouth.

rapidsnowman wrote:

True, perhaps Ulster Rugby should be a little more vocal because as you've stated, the majority of people will assume they are supporting the defendants.

Yes that's one way to help the situation, provide statements that could have an impact on legal proceedings

Well then Ulster Rugby are being perceived by the public to be supporting the defendants in this case. Perhaps, if anyone at Ulster Rugby had a brain all staff would have been told to stay well away.

Pete330v2 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

rapidsnowman wrote:I don't think the media could clarify why they are there unless they have it from the horses mouth.

rapidsnowman wrote:

True, perhaps Ulster Rugby should be a little more vocal because as you've stated, the majority of people will assume they are supporting the defendants.

Yes that's one way to help the situation, provide statements that could have an impact on legal proceedings

Well then Ulster Rugby are being perceived by the public to be supporting the defendants in this case. Perhaps, if anyone at Ulster Rugby had a brain all staff would have been told to stay well away.

They can ask and hopefully they'll rightly be told where to go but they can't tell them anything

marty2086 wrote:

rapidsnowman wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Yes that's one way to help the situation, provide statements that could have an impact on legal proceedings

1. You have ascribed a quote to me that was Pete

2. I was pointing out the media can't speculate who the Ulster players are there to support

3. I wasn't suggesting anyone provide statements about anything.

I was pointing out that I didn't think it looked good for current ulster players to be attending the trial.

And they used to say RoryGallagher was sanctimonious

The king is dead, long live the king

1.You can blame Pete for that not me

2.I was addressing Pete

3. I never said you did

No, Marty isn't sanctimonious in comparison to the afore mentioned Forum member. That particular person will remain king in perpetuity.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote: The problem with Ulster is that Logan doesn't have a background in rugby, so he would be unable to select and appoint a head coach, so he can't carry the can for coach appointment and failure on the pitch.

Well he can because he sacked Anscombe after Humph left, so someone had to be hired.

I wouldn't say the current issues started at this point, if it was all good then Humph wouldn't have jumped ship so abruptly but in my opinion we have been in freefall since then and haven't hit rock bottom yet, although it looks like we are getting there.

From memory Humphreys left because he didn't get Nucifora's job. The reason provided was he didn't have any international rugby management experience. A cop out from the IRFU I suspect so he almost immediately said "ok fine, I have an offer from Gloucester, I'm off". A significant pay increase made it an easier choice.

Humphreys, for all his flaws, is a supremely confident individual. If he felt something was broken he'd try and fix it.

I know Rory Gallagher had a few spats with some of his fellow Ulsterfans. Has he left the forum? Must say I have a lot of time for Rory - he started posting here when he was about 16 (going on 60!)

Redman wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote: The problem with Ulster is that Logan doesn't have a background in rugby, so he would be unable to select and appoint a head coach, so he can't carry the can for coach appointment and failure on the pitch.

Well he can because he sacked Anscombe after Humph left, so someone had to be hired.

I wouldn't say the current issues started at this point, if it was all good then Humph wouldn't have jumped ship so abruptly but in my opinion we have been in freefall since then and haven't hit rock bottom yet, although it looks like we are getting there.

From memory Humphreys left because he didn't get Nucifora's job.  The reason provided was he didn't have any international rugby management experience.  A cop out from the IRFU I suspect so he almost immediately said "ok fine, I have an offer from Gloucester, I'm off".  A significant pay increase made it an easier choice.  

Humphreys, for all his flaws, is a supremely confident individual.  If he felt something was broken he'd try and fix it.  

He seems to be hanging in well there in Gloucester. He wouldn't have been suitable for Nucifora's job (bearing in mind the criticism that Schmidt gets for Leinster bias).

Standulstermen wrote:well i think that was the initial implication marty as Gibbes doesn't want to be the number 1

I'd say the implication is Gibbes realizes he's made a major mistake joining Ulster and will be getting out at the first opportunity.

rodders wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:well i think that was the initial implication marty as Gibbes doesn't want to be the number 1

I'd say the implication is Gibbes realizes he's made a major mistake joining Ulster and will be getting out at the first opportunity.

Why? If he turns it around he enhances his reputation, if he doesn't then it's a case of 'it was broken when I got there'

So, just to clarify... at least one of the Ulster players in the gallery was NOT there to support the boys?

Implication being:
- there to support the girl
- there because he wants to see justice done

So... this player... was expected to work with, train with and play with the lads up until the point where the IRFU relieved them of their duties?

Any wonder some suggest we have a fractured squad???

I do then wonder. It was hinted at a while ago that some of the Christian crew were all high and mighty. I wonder if these are linked and perhaps misconstrued. Perhaps not Christian players, but just certain players who were upset about the allegations because they had links to the girl in question?

Geoff? Care to deny or agree?

Just catching up with this.

On Ulster players attending the trial. Wow, I'm torn. We're not a fascist state. Supporting friends, whether they're in the dock or sitting with the prosecution isn't behavior, to police it is as if your employer could dictate who and who you couldn't vote for. That would be unacceptable and yet I have to agree with many posters here and say it's pretty damaging to Ulster Rugby. The first assumption everyone will make is they're there to support the players ........ but f*ck it. As I write this suddenly I realise public opinion isn't what's important here. What ars*holes like me think doesn't count. The law is what's most important. Ulster Rugby are PR managed enough. We're not Nazi's, people have the right to be wrong whoever they're supporting. Being wrong isn't morally reprehensible in itself, and it's a distance away from being illegal.

More generally, it's probably no huge surprise that certain players were at the trial and it's been surprisingly how responsible the press have been reporting the incident as a whole. Hopefully that continues.
As someone said before, all 4 of the accused are Ulster academy products. 3 were Ulster players and 2 Ulster internationals. Of the players in the galleries, I've heard 1 of them was at the party but thankfully unconnected to this and another was living in the house where the party happened (but has since moved out and there was no mention of him being there that night).

Ulster Rugby are absolutely connected to this. To try and marshall proceedings now after the horse has bolted is wrong headed. They should have demanded higher standards before all of this kicked off. From what others have said, parties like this happened basically every week ..........

If you look at Gilroy’s Instagram you can see a picture of him and the boys along with Hendy at his wedding in July.
From what I can tell, this was/is a tight group. But surely though, at a time where these boys were playing first team pro rugby on a weekly basis, these sort of parties most likely don’t fit in with the clubs guidance on health and fitness.

I mean, we live in a time where clubs keep a record of players bedtimes and sleep patterns.

I do wonder if UR or some senior players ought to have addressed some of the laddish and professional extra curricular activities long before.

Did this whole sorry affair not take place in the off season after the SA tour? Can’t really blame them for letting their hair down then. That said because of their position they should always exercise better judgement. Especially Jackson given he had already been in trouble for the ‘blackface’ episode.

clivemcl wrote:If you look at Gilroy’s Instagram you can see a picture of him and the boys along with Hendy at his wedding in July.
From what I can tell, this was/is a tight group. But surely though, at a time where these boys were playing first team pro rugby on a weekly basis, these sort of parties most likely don’t fit in with the clubs guidance on health and fitness.

I mean, we live in a time where clubs keep a record of players bedtimes and sleep patterns.

I do wonder if UR or some senior players ought to have addressed some of the laddish and professional extra curricular activities long before.

clive, it's all cultural. Rugby and drinking go hand in hand, the beer after the game, players from both sides on a night out, it's a hold over from the amateur days.

Some of our senior players were far from angels and still aren't always the best behaved, some are quite lucky they don't have their own criminal records

That is the trouble with being on the outside.

There are no players further removed from this event than Gilroy and Hendo.
Pictures at weddings do not mean they indulged in the same activity
Please do make the association it is totally unjustified

This is all a right mess!
Where the hell are we here?
I'd take the McGlock / Humph days back like a shot!!!!

- Players/Former players in the dock
- Associated PR nightmare - (There seems, at least seen from the outside, little club PR management on this)
- Another coaching shake up - Its a merry go round!
- Rumours of fractures in the squad and lack of support for the coaching?
- No recognisable 1st or 2nd line No 10 and the loss of a complete 1st team back line in 12 months (pienaar, jackson, olding, payne, pitaua, bowe, farrell, arnold...etc)
- Unfunctioning NIQ contingent taking valuable places (Piatua aside)
- No contracts as yet for 2 of our 3 Ire  starters this weekend!
- Questions on this forum regards Club management, Purchase policy, Coaching and onfield direction, player leadership and player control..!!

I mean all these areas are linked....its does seem like the whole thing is a bit disjointed, other than the financial side which seems healthy enough!
Or is it just all bad luck, we'll be right next year?

But I am just here wondering if a year in the Challenge cup might do us some good!
- Time to restructure the coaching once and for all - Get it right and alligned with other overseas signings!
- build a harmonious squad from youth supported quality overseas signings
- get some control over these fellas alla Alex Ferguson (Can you imganie how he'd handle this... if its true there is a bit of partying life style - its the pro & role models era -  here fellas!)

Reevaluate a bit, go under the radar and get ourselves sorted! Seems to be a lot of decent fellas in there...but whos steering it all!!
They need a strong yet diplomatic character in there who knows how to handle the players and his team!

No comments on this court case, best leaving the decision with the courts and the jurors. None of us are there to hear the case and as fans of the club, we'd not in a month of Sundays be anywhere near jury selection! Its a minefield coming down to the word yes or no. All there is to say is that only those involved will really ever know trully what went on that night. Whatever the case, at worst....poor poor girl..and at best for the players the behaviour is not befitting role models of the club and it would be stunning if they take the field for Ulster again.

As for No 10 - Get the young fella in!!!!!! I'm glad Donald is not coming. (A 3 month filler, to ensure we beat Edinburgh? Why bother, 4th is a playoff anyway and Challenge cup for a year might be a blessing)
I mean .... There isnt going to be a better moment to try out our youngsters!!!!!!


All in all....Disappointed yet hopefull from a fan based in Europe who saddly doesnt have the opportunity to see many games. Will be there in Sept, question is... what will I be seeing at Ravenhill then!...

RF09 wrote:This is all a right mess!
Where the hell are we here?
I'd take the McGlock / Humph days back like a shot!!!!

Why?

Humprhreys never sorted out the academy and we are paying for that now

In the 2011/12 season under McLaughlin we finished 6th in the league and lost 13 games over all competitions, we've lost 6 so far this season with 7 games left in the regular season

Look there has been an arrogance and delusion running through the organization for years and the chickens are coming home to roost.

Certain players have done their best no doubt about it but there needs to be cultural change through the whole branch from top to bottom.

A new DoR or head coach is just another sticking plaster over the fact that the club is not functioning at any level but yet you have all these people, from employees, to certain fans, to the media, running around acting like it is the greatest organization in the
world.

To be blunt, when you look at Leinster and Connacht and although Munster have had their issues around the stadium, coaches and split location, by comparison Ulster are an omnishambles and almost everyone involved should hang their head in shame.

The amount of money financially that has gone in and all the progress made in the "Muller era", to be in such a mess now is just appalling.

It's almost worse now than when McCall got the boot. Other than having 3 top class players in the Irish team tomorrow, as an Ulster rugby fan it is hard to find much to be positive about.

Whilst i'd agree its a sticking plaster it can be bloody effective. Look at what a good plaster Muller was so to speak and his coach was by all accounts more interested in boozing. If we can get a DoR that can instil a vision in these young guys, supported by the Bests, Hendersons, Coetzees of the squad and drill that into the youngsters there is every chance that the culture can change over the space of a few years and any players coming into the academy then understand the levels of dedication required to compete.

easier said than done obviously and a new coach or DoR needs to be empowered. A bit like Kraft stepping back from the Patriots and telling Belichick, this is your team, run it.

Standulstermen wrote:
easier said than done obviously and a new coach or DoR needs to be empowered. A bit like Kraft stepping back from the Patriots and telling Belichick, this is your team, run it.

That's easier said than done though, it requires a commitment from both sides and Ulster are a stepping stone for most coaches coming in. As long as the IRFU keep the release clause in contracts you can't get a long term commitment as theres no real job security. Its why Lam left Connacht. If you have a revolving door of coaches/DoRs who are recruiting you get a patchwork side made up in the vision of 3/4/5/6 men unless you lay down a template

Are there faction in the squad - yes
There are in every club
Its how you manage them that counts
Don't assume the split is between the religious guys and the non religious guys
The squad do not have the splits they had last year because the spiteful coach has gone and the two players in question are not at the club
They will never play for Ulster again for a number of reasons
No other player should be assumed to be of a like mind - I see no evidence of that

Of course getting rid of Kiss is not the whole answers but lets not go overboard - he had to go
Logan has to go for starters - he has been missing in action and guilty of a total failure to take responsibility to steady the ship
Humphreys is part of the problem - sacking McLoughlin, jumping ship when he screwed up resigning Anscombe.
If he had not been a control freak we could have had Sexton, maybe even Cheika as Head Coach
We have an administration set up I can only call high minded and arrogant - Logan doesn't give a sh!t about spectators as long as the money keeps rolling in - starting to panic now as ST projections are looking scary.
The survey was a reflection of the panic
Things are now more of a mess than when Reid was in charge and I thought that was a low point
If I was the IRFU I would Take direct control for a year or two

The main positives are a largely youthful set up with the best Academy in years
Willie Anderson is making a difference
Finances are stable
That's it

Apparently some politicians have written to Ulster asking what advice was given to players regarding attending court in support of their team mates

This was the front of yesterdays Irish Times, Rory coming in for a lot of stick as apparently it's seen as intimidation and seemingly condones a r*** culture

Standulstermen wrote:Whilst i'd agree its a sticking plaster it can be bloody effective. Look at what a good plaster Muller was so to speak and his coach was by all accounts more interested in boozing. If we can get a DoR that can instil a vision in these young guys, supported by the Bests, Hendersons, Coetzees of the squad and drill that into the youngsters there is every chance that the culture can change over the space of a few years and any players coming into the academy then understand the levels of dedication required to compete.

easier said than done obviously and a new coach or DoR needs to be empowered. A bit like Kraft stepping back from the Patriots and telling Belichick, this is your team, run it.

Would Muller be a good DoR option? Would Pienaar return in a coaching role?

marty2086 wrote:Apparently some politicians have written to Ulster asking what advice was given to players regarding attending court in support of their team mates

This was the front of yesterdays Irish Times, Rory coming in for a lot of stick as apparently it's seen as intimidation and seemingly condones a r*** culture

So a politician has a crystal ball and knows why someone attended a trial
Alternatively a politician acts like a gormless prat to make a name for himself via a cheap headline

You decide

marty2086 wrote:Apparently some politicians have written to Ulster asking what advice was given to players regarding attending court in support of their team mates

This was the front of yesterdays Irish Times, Rory coming in for a lot of stick as apparently it's seen as intimidation and seemingly condones a r*** culture

Thats just idiots being idiots Marty

Politicians can Frak right off too. If any Northern Irish politician wrote to UR i would reply with 'I'm sorry i thought you were on your holidays'

In response to the Muller question, i would let the man return in whatever capacity he wanted. He oozes class and to hear the likes of Ferris speak of him almost in reverence tells you all you need to know. He wont come though

geoff999rugby wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Apparently some politicians have written to Ulster asking what advice was given to players regarding attending court in support of their team mates

This was the front of yesterdays Irish Times, Rory coming in for a lot of stick as apparently it's seen as intimidation and seemingly condones a r*** culture

So a politician has a crystal ball and knows why someone attended a trial
Alternatively a politician acts like a gormless prat to make a name for himself via a cheap headline

You decide

At least one was female

It's an assumption that many are making though and not good for the clubs image which isn't great even without the trial

It is becoming an unwelcome side story.

Joe got asked questions about Rory and Hendo attending the trial at his press conference.

Perception is everything these days.

It is but people are making an assumption they were there to support the players.

One of them was not - I don't know what the mind set of the others was
Nor, I suspect, does anyone else.
I do agree it was ill advised but people should not jumped to conclusions as to motive.

geoff999rugby wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Apparently some politicians have written to Ulster asking what advice was given to players regarding attending court in support of their team mates

This was the front of yesterdays Irish Times, Rory coming in for a lot of stick as apparently it's seen as intimidation and seemingly condones a r*** culture

So a politician has a crystal ball and knows why someone attended a trial
Alternatively a politician acts like a gormless prat to make a name for himself via a cheap headline

You decide

Also an Irish paper that can't wait to jump at the chance to pile perceived shame on Ulster players. This is what I meant about how wise it was to attend when we all know the press so loves to drag people through the gutter without knowing anything about them, let alone asking first.

If (and im doing what Geoff says i shouldn't) it was my friend in trouble with the and he told me he was innocent then i would be there and to hell with the consequences.

geoff999rugby wrote:It is but people are making an assumption they were there to support the players.

One of them was not - I don't know what  the mind set of the others was
Nor, I suspect, does anyone else.
I do agree it was ill advised but people should not jumped to conclusions as to motive.

Nothing wrong with assuming but chastising publically and saying that some how they are less free to attend because of who they are is ridiculous

I said ill advised not shouldn't

I too understand supporting a friend who you believe is innocent.
The trouble is if you are in public limelight the gutter press will assume the worst,
without any justification whatsoever, as is happening here

geoff999rugby wrote:I said ill advised not shouldn't

You did as well, apologies

geoff999rugby wrote:I too understand supporting a friend who you believe is innocent.
The trouble is if you are in public limelight the gutter press will assume the worst,
without any justification whatsoever, as is happening here

With the gutter press if no one from Ulster were there they'd probably report that too and people would draw conclusions from that

The freedom of the press is something I support strongly but the freedom to create stories from the imagination of some 2nd rate journo I detest.

Timing was very poor for their attendance when the woman was giving evidence. IRFU/Ulster Rugby should have told all their employees to just stay away from it. That way, the players would not feel obliged to show public support for anyone.

What would be a good plan though would be for the IRFU to arrange for all academy players / sub academy to spend a day at the trial - that would sort out the dressing room culture in every Province for the future.

I see that Rory is getting questioned about it in Paris.