Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

I was thinkung similar McCloskey for me has been better than Arnold and Farrell and just isnt being picked. Hopefully a resurgent Ulster will make it all better

My guess is only one guy will be punished and not one of the rugby players

Collapse2005 wrote:My guess is only one guy will be punished and not one of the rugby players

Strangely I can see the guy being found guilty of exposure getting done and Olding and Jackson getting off as well.

They had a blowout there on Saturday im told. I suppose one way or another it'll be the last chance at one for a while.

Moving on some from poor choice of phrase...Rorys new contract has been announced...hopefully with a large payrise

marty2086 wrote:Moving on some from poor choice of phrase...Rorys new contract has been announced...hopefully with a large payrise

I agree. Very few players have contributed as much to Irish rugby as him.

Hendy needs to take the bull by the horns and start leading Ulster, they need him to drag standards up. I think Jordi Murphy will be good for us too in bringing the Leinster professionalism with him.
Any rumours on the head coach front?

I hope Joey Carbery goes at least on loan to Ulster.

Collapse2005 wrote:I hope Joey Carbery goes at least on loan to Ulster.

Yer man on t'other forum has mentioned Joey a couple of times lately so I wouldn't be overly surprised, the seeds of rumours he sows generally have foundation.

Great news for Rory, what a player and captain he has been. I think his role on the GS has been understated a bit, he looks very fit and has gone about his business without being too flashy.

On the downside I think he will be very well managed gametime wise between now and the RWC so Ulster may not see a huge amount from him.

Carbury would be a tremendous signing, even if it is a loan.

Ulster need to sort themselves out asp and try and get the bounce from this GS.

Three Ulstermen played a big role, 4 if you include Murphy and we need to use the feelgood factor from it to give the province a boost.

I think there's a huge incentive there for guys like Moore, Herring and Treadwell, get your act together and you could go to Japan. Guys like Marshall, McCloskey, Gilroy, and Cooney too. Injuries, loss of form etc can create openings and opportunities and you've got to primed if you want to be next in line

I think the Australia tour presents a great opportunity for the guys who didn't feature in the GS.

I'm sure a strong team will go but there should be a few opportunities for some of the fringe players too.

Let's get Ulster (*ahem* and Munster after their dreadful showing at the weekend) back up to speed and SMASH the bloomin' International World under our furious power and f**king tactical cute hoorism!!!

The Oz tour is a tough one, do you maybe integrate a player or two here or there into the team and risk losing some of the cohesion and momentum or do you set out to steam roller the Wallabies and aim for a series whitewash and use it as a statement of intent?

In my view, you change the side as much as the side of the Autumn is different to the 6N side - so anchor players remain - not necessarily Sexton, Best and Murray though.  But a smattering of big name players that have done the biz through time, then four or five different players taken out of the pool beneath the old hands - and it's developed into a pretty big pool.

In short I think referring to a comment I made on another thread, Joe should keep this by-degrees rotation thing going.  Blood one or two, let one or two of the others return (example maybe Conway?)  Keep the big pool content that they are not being let drift now the closer the WC comes.  

A more generous continuing pattern of giving young players with ability some genuine game time will not be directed at the WC prep itself but would keep a process going that might serve our interests beyond the WC.  Make changes and gametime for periphery guys a continuous unbreaking process.  Then when the WC comes around, of course then Joe has to choose his preferences more coldly.

marty2086 wrote:The Oz tour is a tough one, do you maybe integrate a player or two here or there into the team and risk losing some of the cohesion and momentum or do you set out to steam roller the Wallabies and aim for a series whitewash and use it as a statement of intent?

I'm hoping for the latter but expecting the former.
That being said, when personnel changes have been made there isn't the same drop off in quality that Ireland traditionally had. The changes in the 13 shirt alone shows the depth of quality available. That depth is needed in a few more positions (9 & 10 particularly) and we're the All Greens.

marty2086 wrote:The Oz tour is a tough one, do you maybe integrate a player or two here or there into the team and risk losing some of the cohesion and momentum or do you set out to steam roller the Wallabies and aim for a series whitewash and use it as a statement of intent?

Well I think you've go to do both. It is a great opportunity to win a test series but I think it is not possible to keep winning from now through to the RWC no matter who we select so some rotation is needed to keep things fresh.

Some of the Lions and older guys I'm sure will get the summer off I'd think but there are experienced players who haven't played a lot like O'Brien and Dillane who haven't played much along with more game time for some of the younger guys and fringe players.

I think if we can win 2 tests and beat the ABs in the Autumn then that will be 2 big boxes ticked en route to Japan, back to back GS's will be a bonus.....

rodders wrote:

I think if we can win 2 tests and beat the ABs in the Autumn then that will be 2 big boxes ticked en route to Japan, back to back GS's will be a bonus.....

If we do all that, they may just give us the WC without us turning up!

Oh , and give us back our World Cup hosting job too that was stolen from us by some group of basterdes called 'Celts' or something!

I'm liking my new All Blacky Arrogance!!!!

Look at individual positions - different strokes for different players

In the second row for example - lets take Beirne, Henderson, Ryan and Toner and rotate.
Baring injury they are all WC bound.
Elsewhere at Scrum half - rest Murray, take McGrath, Cooney and Marmion
Fly Half - depends what they do with Paddy (if anything) - Id like to rest Sexton and take Jackson, Carbery and Bryne.
Carbery, Bryne and Keatley simply isn't good enough
Hooker - rest Best, take Cronin and 2 from Tracey, Herring and Scannell

Rest the 3 we cant do without, at WC - Sexton, Murray and Best but other Lions should go if fully fit

geoff999rugby wrote:Look at individual positions - different strokes for different players

In the second row for example - lets take Beirne, Henderson, Ryan and Toner and rotate.
Baring injury they are all WC bound.
Elsewhere at Scrum half - rest Murray, take McGrath, Cooney and Marmion
Fly Half - depends what they do with Paddy (if anything) - Id like to rest Sexton and take Jackson, Carbery and Bryne.
Carbery, Bryne and Keatley simply isn't good enough
Hooker - rest Best, take Cronin and 2 from Tracey, Herring and Scannell

Rest the 3 we cant do without, at WC - Sexton, Murray and Best but other Lions should go if fully fit

I was thinking similar, you take the spine out and put others under the pressure of leading the team and having to win games without guys like Murray and Sexton to fall back on. It's a huge risk though but maybe one that needs to be taken given how we suffered when POC and others went down in 2015

yep.... at some point in Important games of meaning (and few now up to the WC don't) we're going to have to check what's under the bonnet if Sexton and Murray fall as one.... and if they're both out of the equation for a number of games.

Hard thing to do given our need to keep our winning habit going for confidence's sake.

I suppose this is the one area where Schmidt is simply trusting a bit to luck. But since we rarely pick up 'luck' at WCs, we have to think about that testing phase.

So after the rumour of Kyle Godwin signing, he's gone to Connacht

marty2086 wrote:The Oz tour is a tough one, do you maybe integrate a player or two here or there into the team and risk losing some of the cohesion and momentum or do you set out to steam roller the Wallabies and aim for a series whitewash and use it as a statement of intent?

Schmidt fairly regularly introduces at least a couple of new players all the time. We hVe quite a young squad now so not sure he needs to cap many more youngsters.

marty2086 wrote:So after the rumour of Kyle Godwin signing, he's gone to Connacht

He was never coming, nore is that Fijian I read about.

geoff999rugby wrote:

marty2086 wrote:So after the rumour of Kyle Godwin signing, he's gone to Connacht

He was never coming, nore is that Fijian I read about.  

I figured he wasn't that's why I called it a rumour, probably someone putting two and two together

Richard Mulligan reporting Hendersons contracts sorted just not announced yet

That my understanding

It's a bit of relief because if that was the level of outhalf cover Ulster were looking at it would have been very disappointing, another 12 for the 10 slot.

Henderson signed to 2021.

rodders wrote:Henderson signed to 2021.

Or in a measure of time, 4 Ulster coaches

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:Henderson signed to 2021.

Or in a measure of time, 4 Ulster coaches

only 4 marty we can do better than that lol

Well it could be more given the coaches linked to the job, Eddie, Michael Bradley and Glenn Moore the head coach of the NZ Womens team

Nice to see Logans aiming big

I don't think Logan has any say he is too busy trying to hang on to his job.
Anyway, as he keeps telling us, he knows nothing about rugby.
Probably the only truthful observation to come out of his mouth in years

IRFU and Cunningham will make this decision

marty2086 wrote:Well it could be more given the coaches linked to the job, Eddie, Michael Bradley and Glenn Moore the head coach of the NZ Womens team

Nice to see Logans aiming big

Eddie wouldn't be the worst, the RWC clusterpluck tarnished a reputation that had been impressive up until then.
Glenn Moore has plenty of coaching experience and if he could get Ulster playing like the NZ women it'd be a step up. Mind you he is graced with a more masculine pack
Bradley???? Nooooooooo!

I see that after the Godwin signing Connacht have announced that he is the first of a number of big signings. It'll be interesting to watch what develops there compared to what happens closer to home. We don't have the same pulling power these days.

All 3 Grand Slammers are available to Ulster this weekend if they want to use them

Anyone listen to the demented mole podcast?. Briefly talked about the U20s and said Curtis was a clear standout. Aggressive and strong always looking to make an impact and hungry in defence.
Also said how cooney deserves a chance in the summer with Ireland due to being the top Irish sh this year

geoff999rugby wrote:All 3 Grand Slammers are available to Ulster this weekend if they want to use them

Rorys been given time off which is baffling given we don't have a game next week

Pete330v2 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:The Oz tour is a tough one, do you maybe integrate a player or two here or there into the team and risk losing some of the cohesion and momentum or do you set out to steam roller the Wallabies and aim for a series whitewash and use it as a statement of intent?

I'm hoping for the latter but expecting the former.
That being said, when personnel changes have been made there isn't the same drop off in quality that Ireland traditionally had. The changes in the 13 shirt alone shows the depth of quality available. That depth is needed in a few more positions (9 & 10 particularly) and we're the All Greens.

Think that should be the 'Al Greens' as this Ireland team is full of heart & soul and give their opponents 'L'.

Regarding team selection I agree - Carpe Diem. Ireland have earned the chance to go to Australia and break new ground by winning an away SH series in the pro era. This is their Lions tour, so the best players should be on the plane and have their chance to say to Guscott - we're not the All Blacks we're the Al Greens!

The question of selection is based on how far Leinster and Munster go in the domestic competitions and whether Sexton is carrying a chronic injury. Rory is unlikely to be involved in much rugby with Ulster, so as the Captain he should definitely travel. Murray should go as well as all three will be carefully managed with maybe 80 minutes total time each over the three games.

Can't see there being many new caps apart from maybe Beirne, but can see plenty of time for Ryan, Stockdale, Carbery and Larmour.

Don't know much about him, but Nick Kennedy is leaving LI and seema to have done a good job improving their Academy and pathways. Is he a coach, though? DoR at Irish.

Don Alfonso wrote:Don't know much about him, but Nick Kennedy is leaving LI and seema to have done a good job improving their Academy and pathways. Is he a coach, though? DoR at Irish.

Beat me to it Don

I was going to post

'Apparently Nick Kennedy and Brendan Venter have left LI and Kiss' position is head coach, be interesting to see how that turns out. Venter coming into Ulster with Kennedy beneath him mightn't be a bad coaching setup'

Pretty sure he was coaching either the scrum or forwards at LI

I've heard of rats leaving sinking ships but never swapping them.
Our coaches recently failed, lets bring in a new coaching team........who have recently failed......hmmmm.

I can't think of Venter without thinking about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FgchHlaSQE

Just because you fail in one place doesn't mean you fail somewhere else, McCall left Ulster at the bottom of the Celtic League I don't think Sarries are regretting hiring him. Though don't quote me on that if they lose a few more games

Personally I think Venter has the right ideas, attitude and approach to turn Ulster around. At LI, Kennedy was the man in charge though that may be the way Venter prefers it these days. You have two guys then with the ability to revamp a setup, the way things went at LI I don't think is their fault, they've had just over 18 months to turn LI into a team able to compete in the AP.

marty2086 wrote:Just because you fail in one place doesn't mean you fail somewhere else, McCall left Ulster at the bottom of the Celtic League I don't think Sarries are regretting hiring him. Though don't quote me on that if they lose a few more games

Personally I think Venter has the right ideas, attitude and approach to turn Ulster around. At LI, Kennedy was the man in charge though that may be the way Venter prefers it these days. You have two guys then with the ability to revamp a setup, the way things went at LI I don't think is their fault, they've had just over 18 months to turn LI into a team able to compete in the AP.

On the flip side when coaches who've arrived who were perceived as successful elsewhere we were all very excited only to be burned. I guess right now it'd take a lot so stall my pessimism.
Cunningham has said that an announcement will come in a few weeks, it's always a few weeks with Ulster these days. Jared's been a few weeks away all season.

http://ulsterrugby.com/news/17167#.WrQMe5cuBPY

Good move putting some rugby on free tv i reckon

TV3 are doing it down here.

The European Rugby people are realising that they have to tap into audiences that simply won't pay for specialised coverage (subscription packages).  So they are spreading the product through terrestrial channels again to consolidate on the dedicated audience that will still pay for a more detailed coverage.

Maybe its the early early hints that sport maybe feels it might just be overdoing the piecemeal elitist image that subscription inevitably paints - and realising that marketing is tough when you say access is limited solely to die-hards willing to pay the premiums.

SecretFly wrote:TV3 are doing it down here.

The European Rugby people are realising that they have to tap into audiences that simply won't pay for specialised coverage (subscription packages).  So they are spreading the product through terrestrial channels again to consolidate on the dedicated audience that will still pay for a more detailed coverage.

Maybe its the early early hints that sport maybe feels it might just be overdoing the piecemeal elitist image that subscription inevitably paints -  and realising that marketing is tough when you say access is limited solely to die-hards willing to pay the premiums.

It’s been happening for a while in other sports, Fly. Pay Tv/Satellite doesn’t hit the big audience numbers compared to FTA.

It's just a smart idea really, if you put every game on pay tv then there is unlikely to be any new fans as they won't see it.

If you put a game on free tv every week then people might see it and start to like it and eventually become fans willing to pay for the product.

Football can survive ok on pay tv because it is already so widely followed plus even they have the highlights on Match of the day and some free tv FA Cup and champions league games

A little rumour that I believe has some credibility

Jackson has decided to go
Carbery comes here on a years loan to get week in week out game time as a 10 in order to be Sextons backup for the WC

Bare these facts in mind:
Bryne, not Carbery, has been Sextons backup at Leinster.
Carbery has been playing 15 when they have both Kearney and Larmour
Maybe Leinster knew they may well lose Carbery for a year and needed Bryne to get up to speed

Bryn talked of us signing a LH, Lock and Backrower
Assuming Deysel and Coetzee take up two of the NIQ spots next year that means a NIQ 10 would require 
2 of those players to be IQ, however if Carbery comes only 1 would have to be IQ.
Maybe its 2 loans - Dooley and Carbery.
In summer 2019 Deysel will not be renewed and that would free us up to get a new LH and 10.
VdeMerwe will be ditched this summer or left to rot for a year and ditched in 2019
One a project and one a NIQ
Alternatively one or both of the loaned players might get to like it here

All very speculative but fits a few strands in the air

Has Byrne not been covering 10 from the start of the season though? That would mean that it's been on the books from that far back. Entirely possible but just seems like a big risk for Leinster to be taking for Ulsters benefit when Carberry could have been getting time at 10 all season

I'm trying to figure out how I feel about this to be honest. Its no secret that my allegiance is to Ulster before Ireland. So the idea of helping the national team doesn't sway me. Carberry would be useful while we have him, but then after we give him back, we are as weak at 10 as we are now, Phillips has been held back, and Leinster are stronger for it.
Somebody give me the counter argument here.

It has been pretty open that Schmidt prefers Carbury at 10 whereas Cullen prefers Bryne and sees Carbury more as a utility back.

This is no different to the Henderson situations where he was playing 6 at Ulster and lock for Ireland, there is no mystery about it.

Byrne has been excellent when I've seen him, he's a bit more structure and similar to Sexton than Carbury.

I actually think Byne would be a better fit for us but certainly Carbury is a far better player and can cover other positions.

I'm not keen that it is a temporary move, rather than long term but I suppose that gives McPhillips a bit more time to develop and given Carbury would be away in Ireland camps he still should get a decent amount of game time, than if we signed an NIE.

The point is come 2019 we will have a NIQ place freed up with Deysel leaving.
The downside of not signing is we will only get 1 NIQ forward - the reality is we are in a mess and need all the help we can get.
Also others will get game time next year and be older - so one or more of McPhillips, Lowry and Curtis will be better in 15 months time

Marty as I say speculative but Leinster clearly believe in the talents of Bryne and with Kearney injured and Larmour very raw playing
Carbery at 15 was not that big a risk.
I reckon it was up for consideration as far back as last summer - Joe would have had to look at his options for cover 10 given the trial.
Staying at Leinster Carbery is never going to get the game time he needs to fulfil the role