BBC Wales out of running to show Pro 14 next season

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43302261

Live coverage of club rugby will not be shown on BBC Two Wales next season after the BBC failed to reach a deal to continue broadcasting the Pro 14 tournament.

Competition organisers are understood to have awarded the UK rights to a pay-TV service, but BBC Wales had hoped to continue broadcasting games in Wales.

It means viewers will no longer be able to watch club games on free-to-air television in English. Negotiations over Welsh language rights are ongoing.

In the great scheme of things £10 a month is not a lot of money. We don't know what the extent of the coverage will be yet, but suppose they show three games per weekend, Friday, sat and sunday, that could work out at less than a pound per game per month.

I appreciate that not everyone wants to watch teams other than their own, but others, myself included are happy enough to watch any decent game and often record them so they can be watched when it suits me, usually late in the evening when I get home from work.

I will probably see less Glasgow games than before under the new regime, but that is something I think I will have to accept for the greater good of the league. You just can't get away from the fact that it needs a decent TV deal if it is ever going to keep up, let alone progress.

If Premier TV make a decent success of televising the league in this contract cycle, then some of the bigger boys may well be interested next time around and pay accordingly. The Pro 14 is a decent product and is improving. It should not be undersold.

The Oracle wrote:

profitius wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:If you agree with that logic - why do you think you know more than them? I'd be stunned if less than 1% of the viewers on BBC Wales were willing to pay

And I will be stunned if more than 1% were willing to pay. But only time will tell.

Ld, have you a link to where it says 100,000?


The current TV deal excluding South African money is £11.6m I believe.
Premier sports costs £10 per month, thats £12m per year for every 100,000 subscribers.


Bearing in mind the current populations of Ireland, Scotland and Wales combined is 15m people or about 6.5m households. 2% of households translates to £15.6m per year from the companies point of view. 3% translates to £23.4m etc.


And then there is the English market.

Do we know if Premier Sports will give a certain % to the league?  Or will it just be a flat rate (like it currently is) - e.g. £x million per year.  So regardless of subscriptions it may not necessarily mean more money for the league.  More subscriptions might just mean more money for the TV company and their shareholders.

I'd say all that will be kept private.

profitius wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

profitius wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:If you agree with that logic - why do you think you know more than them? I'd be stunned if less than 1% of the viewers on BBC Wales were willing to pay

And I will be stunned if more than 1% were willing to pay. But only time will tell.

Ld, have you a link to where it says 100,000?


The current TV deal excluding South African money is £11.6m I believe.
Premier sports costs £10 per month, thats £12m per year for every 100,000 subscribers.


Bearing in mind the current populations of Ireland, Scotland and Wales combined is 15m people or about 6.5m households. 2% of households translates to £15.6m per year from the companies point of view. 3% translates to £23.4m etc.


And then there is the English market.

Do we know if Premier Sports will give a certain % to the league?  Or will it just be a flat rate (like it currently is) - e.g. £x million per year.  So regardless of subscriptions it may not necessarily mean more money for the league.  More subscriptions might just mean more money for the TV company and their shareholders.

I'd say all that will be kept private.

You're probably right. I guess my point was that if they get 2% of the Pro14 population to sign up to Premier Sports then that's great and would generate £15.6m. But they're not going to give all of that to the league. So I guess (just thinking out loud) that they bid a certain amount, commit to paying the Pro14 lets say £10 million, and then hope they exceed that figure in subscriptions by quite a bit to turn a profit after production costs, etc.

I never appreciated how much of a miracle worker I was, playing rugby in my time off work and travelling home at least 100 miles for a Dragons game, whilst wearing my new Dragons shirt. Throw in being free to decide for myself if I subscribe to something and I’m really achieving. I must put that on my boast sheet in work.

RiscaGame wrote:I never appreciated how much of a miracle worker I was, playing rugby in my time off work and travelling home at least 100 miles for a Dragons game, whilst wearing my new Dragons shirt. Throw in being free to decide for myself if I subscribe to something and I’m really achieving. I must put that on my boast sheet in work.

Your countrymen must stand and salute in awe of your prowess!

To be fair you can probably get a fair bit of skag in Merthyr for £9.99

The league simply cannot win with some people. They complain when the league isnt brining in enough money and then complain when they try to increase the tv deals. Seriously what is the league supposed to do??

Tg4 have also agreed terms to show FTA rugby from the Pro14 for the next 3 years

Good stuff.

I'd have missed the girl with the big cosy hats talking a million miles to the dozen with the big lad that loves eating microphones.

carpet baboon wrote:Tg4 have also agreed terms to show FTA rugby from the Pro14 for the next 3 years

What, the armchair fan can get their rugby for free??? What about their contribution to the league?!?!?!

So fans of 3 Provinces get to see the Rugby for free lol
Wait till the PR'O 14 crew hear about this.

I guess it begs the same question you were all asking Lord Dowlais: why should an Irish fan get to watch the games for free???

Because the Irish TV channel bid enough to be accepted and the BBC didn't

BamBam wrote:Because the Irish TV channel bid enough to be accepted and the BBC didn't

But the tone of today (on here) seemed to be that fans need to contribute to the league and get nothing for free. What's changed?

The tone was that the league needed more money - that seemed to be agreed by most.

Fans who want to watch in English will still need to contribute and pay for EIR Sports.

The general tone on here was that fans aren't entitled to FTA rugby - contribution etc came afterwards following the discussions on how poor the Welsh fans are.

Primary objective - get the most money in
Secondary objective - keep the fans happy

If the secondary objective happens to be met by getting the most money in (like in Ireland), then great. If not (as in the Welsh rights case) - tough

I'm not complaining here BamBam. I tend to agree with you. I can just see the goalposts moving a bit now.

Me personally I honestly don't mind. I watch the FTA games now. Not all, but quite a few. Rarely do I watch a whole game though. I'll usually get bored and turn over around 9pm somewhere during the 2nd half. Or even by half time! Will I pay to watch that? Probably not. I can afford it. As others say it's just a couple of pints. But can I be bothered? Probably not. Does that mean I'm not contributing to the league? Yep. But oh well.

Also tg4 seem to have made an agreement with eir sport and the pro14. So I'm guessing eir sport get first pick then tg4 will televise whats left.
Also no details beyond who has had successful bids accepted is known. And apparently more contracts are due to be announced l. My guess FTA games in UK through Welsh/Scottish language channel

I agree with you

In an ideal world, every sport would be on FTA, and no one would be lining Murdoch/BT/other broadcaster's pockets

If FTA broadcasters had the budget, as a sports fan I'd be more than glad to see them bin off Eastenders or Coronation St and spend it all on football, rugby etc - but they can't afford to do so in all cases

If TG4 in Ireland can afford to pay at a level that the league wants, good for them

"The42 understands that the Pro14′s new TV rights deal from next season onwards will mean a notable increase in the broadcasting revenue for the championship’s participating clubs."

profitius wrote:"The42 understands that the Pro14′s new TV rights deal from next season onwards will mean a notable increase in the broadcasting revenue for the championship’s participating clubs."

I should hope so. Otherwise, what would be the point?!

The Oracle wrote:

profitius wrote:"The42 understands that the Pro14′s new TV rights deal from next season onwards will mean a notable increase in the broadcasting revenue for the championship’s participating clubs."

I should hope so. Otherwise, what would be the point?!

To perseve the Irish dominance in the league obviously.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

profitius wrote:"The42 understands that the Pro14′s new TV rights deal from next season onwards will mean a notable increase in the broadcasting revenue for the championship’s participating clubs."

I should hope so. Otherwise, what would be the point?!

To perseve the Irish dominance in the league obviously.

But seriously. You’d hope that renegotiations would lead to an increase in revenue. At the very least you’d want the money to rise with inflation, otherwise the teams would be getting less.

Actually, just read your quote back again. What do they mean by the ‘Championship’s’ clubs? Is the league classed as a championship? Or am I just nit picking a throw away/incorrect term?!

The Oracle wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

profitius wrote:"The42 understands that the Pro14′s new TV rights deal from next season onwards will mean a notable increase in the broadcasting revenue for the championship’s participating clubs."

I should hope so. Otherwise, what would be the point?!

To perseve the Irish dominance in the league obviously.

But seriously. You’d hope that renegotiations would lead to an increase in revenue. At the very least you’d want the money to rise with inflation, otherwise the teams would be getting less.

Actually, just read your quote back again. What do they mean by the ‘Championship’s’ clubs? Is the league classed as a championship? Or am I just nit picking a throw away/incorrect term?!

It's the PRO14 Championship. Hadn't you noticed?

It's not a league.

Like I said.

The Pro14 is an Irish league for the Irish.

Pot Hale wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

profitius wrote:"The42 understands that the Pro14′s new TV rights deal from next season onwards will mean a notable increase in the broadcasting revenue for the championship’s participating clubs."

I should hope so. Otherwise, what would be the point?!

To perseve the Irish dominance in the league obviously.

But seriously. You’d hope that renegotiations would lead to an increase in revenue. At the very least you’d want the money to rise with inflation, otherwise the teams would be getting less.

Actually, just read your quote back again. What do they mean by the ‘Championship’s’ clubs? Is the league classed as a championship? Or am I just nit picking a throw away/incorrect term?!

It's the PRO14 Championship.  Hadn't you noticed?

It's not a league.

No, I hadn’t!

It's a biscuit not a bar?



Well that does beat the bar. Never really realised that either.

Well it's gone strangely quiet on here now that it has been announced that the Irish will get free to air games.

I wonder why ?

LordDowlais wrote:Well it's gone strangely quiet on here now that it has been announced that the Irish will get free to air games.

I wonder why ?

Maybe something to do with Ireland winning the 6 nations and attention being elsewhere, it being Mothers Day etc but Im sure you've a conspiracy theory on it

You must go through a lot of tinfoil

Sky pulling out and Premier Sport getting the rights is the worst thing that could have happened to the tournament.

VinceWLB wrote:Sky pulling out and Premier Sport getting the rights is the worst thing that could have happened to the tournament.

Agreed.

But hey ho, at least they now have wall to wall coverage over in Ireland now.

The UK fan base have been well and truly shafted.

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Well it's gone strangely quiet on here now that it has been announced that the Irish will get free to air games.

I wonder why ?

Maybe something to do with Ireland winning the 6 nations and attention being elsewhere, it being Mothers Day etc but Im sure you've a conspiracy theory on it

You must go through a lot of tinfoil

Cut him some slack, the rock he crawled out from under isn't allowed into restaurants so he doesn't celebrate Mother's day much

BamBam

Do you ever talk rugby, or do you just come on here to troll me ?

Why don't you just bugger off. You know nothing of me, my personal situation surrounding mothers day, or anything.

Like I said it is very quiet.

The UK Pro14 fans have been shafted, and the Irish know this, yet are not even humble enough to admit it.

You really are an just a jumped up little dictator LD, telling people what they can and cannot talk about and now telling people to bugger off

Why don't you just put your dummy back in and pipe down

You talk about UK fans being shafted yet as a UK fan I don't feel shafted, after all, it's not like PremierSports have a free to air channel they wish to fill with 10 hours of live sport a day

marty2086 wrote:You really are an just a jumped up little dictator LD, telling people what they can and cannot talk about and now telling people to bugger off

Excuse me.

But I will not stand by and have people have a go about me about Mothers Day, it's an especially serious day for me. It's a day I cherish.

So you can stick yourself where the sun doesn't shine as well.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:You really are an just a jumped up little dictator LD, telling people what they can and cannot talk about and now telling people to bugger off

Excuse me.

But I will not stand by and have people have a go about me about Mothers Day, it's an especially serious day for me. It's a day I cherish.

So you can stick yourself where the sun doesn't shine as well.

Someone forgot their medication today, a nap may be advisable

marty2086 wrote:You talk about UK fans being shafted yet as a UK fan I don't feel shafted, after all, it's not like PremierSports have a free to air channel they wish to fill with 10 hours of live sport a day

Thats because, in N Ireland you get access to all the channels the republic get as well. So do me a favour and stop being you usual self on here.

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:You really are an just a jumped up little dictator LD, telling people what they can and cannot talk about and now telling people to bugger off

Excuse me.

But I will not stand by and have people have a go about me about Mothers Day, it's an especially serious day for me. It's a day I cherish.

So you can stick yourself where the sun doesn't shine as well.

Someone forgot their medication today, a nap may be advisable

No you and BamBam can stop being personal. That's advisable.

LordDowlais wrote:BamBam

Do you ever talk rugby, or do you just come on here to troll me ?

Why don't you just bugger off. You know nothing of me, my personal situation surrounding mothers day, or anything.

Like I said it is very quiet.

The UK Pro14 fans have been shafted, and the Irish know this, yet are not even humble enough to admit it.

Okay - back to the topic.

Shafted by what, Lord?  Better Broadcasting deals that you yourself over and over mentioned as one of the failings of the League?  Not enough money coming from broadcasting interests outside Wales was the normal stuff coming up here not all that long ago.

So are you telling us that, one more time, Wales (Region Organisation =WRU) fail yetagain to negotiate the better deal for the fans they allegedly serve?

Who are you blaming for the outcome you obviously don't like?  The BBC for not paying more?  The other new Broadcasters for paying more?

Who do you blame?  Who is the villain of this latest piece of skulduggery?

BBC Wales made a significantly higher offer than previously. This is a fact. I doubt very much TG4 have made an offer as big as BBC Wales did.

So you tell me, why would TG4 a free to air channel in Ireland get TV rights, and BBC Wales, a free to air TV channel in the UK not get any rights ?

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:You really are an just a jumped up little dictator LD, telling people what they can and cannot talk about and now telling people to bugger off

Excuse me.

But I will not stand by and have people have a go about me about Mothers Day, it's an especially serious day for me. It's a day I cherish.

So you can stick yourself where the sun doesn't shine as well.

Someone forgot their medication today, a nap may be advisable

No you and BamBam can stop being personal. That's advisable.

Seriously wind your neck in

You come on here constantly ranting without engaging your brain, you accused BamBam of trolling then told him to bugger off, this follows in you repeatedly telling people what they can and cannot discuss in these forums

You are today saying fans are being screwed, yet don't have the details of the deal you are complaining about but know someone is getting screwed. After repeatedly complaining about the lack of money in the league, more money comes in and you complain.

Now you follow all this up by telling me where to go, seriously learn to take a deep breath or just grow the f*#k up and stop channelling your inner DUP

LordDowlais wrote:BBC Wales made a significantly higher offer than previously. This is a fact. I doubt very much TG4 have made an offer as big as BBC Wales did.

So you tell me, why would TG4 a free to air channel in Ireland get TV rights, and BBC Wales, a free to air TV channel in the UK not get any rights ?

Because TG4 are paying eirSports

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:BBC Wales made a significantly higher offer than previously. This is a fact. I doubt very much TG4 have made an offer as big as BBC Wales did.

So you tell me, why would TG4 a free to air channel in Ireland get TV rights, and BBC Wales, a free to air TV channel in the UK not get any rights ?

Because TG4 are paying eirSports

No they ain't.

The42 understands that the Irish broadcaster is close to agreeing a deal with[b] Pro14 organisers [/b]and eir Sport, allowing TG4 to continue to provide a similar level of free-to-air coverage as is currently the case. wrote:

Notice the bit in bold. TG4 is keeping the same level of coverage as always. In fact take a look at this link:-

http://www.the42.ie/tg4-guinness-pro14-broadcasting-rights-3893372-Mar2018/

Quite comfortable for the Irish fans I reckon.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:BBC Wales made a significantly higher offer than previously. This is a fact. I doubt very much TG4 have made an offer as big as BBC Wales did.

So you tell me, why would TG4 a free to air channel in Ireland get TV rights, and BBC Wales, a free to air TV channel in the UK not get any rights ?

Because TG4 are paying eirSports

No they ain't.

The42 understands that the Irish broadcaster is close to agreeing a deal with[b] Pro14 organisers [/b]and eir Sport, allowing TG4 to continue to provide a similar level of free-to-air coverage as is currently the case. wrote:

Notice the bit in bold. TG4 is keeping the same level of coverage as always. In fact take a look at this link:-

http://www.the42.ie/tg4-guinness-pro14-broadcasting-rights-3893372-Mar2018/

Quite comfortable for the Irish fans I reckon.

Really? Why aren't they?

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:You really are an just a jumped up little dictator LD, telling people what they can and cannot talk about and now telling people to bugger off

Excuse me.

But I will not stand by and have people have a go about me about Mothers Day, it's an especially serious day for me. It's a day I cherish.

So you can stick yourself where the sun doesn't shine as well.

Someone forgot their medication today, a nap may be advisable

No you and BamBam can stop being personal. That's advisable.

Seriously wind your neck in

You come on here constantly ranting without engaging your brain, you accused BamBam of trolling then told him to bugger off, this follows in you repeatedly telling people what they can and cannot discuss in these forums

You are today saying fans are being screwed, yet don't have the details of the deal you are complaining about but know someone is getting screwed. After repeatedly complaining about the lack of money in the league, more money comes in and you complain.  

Now you follow all this up by telling me where to go, seriously learn to take a deep breath or just grow the f*#k up and stop channelling your inner DUP

And you are on about me ?

Look, I never make anything personal on here. You constantly use insults and the moderators do nothing.

Also, for the record, do not ever accuse me of having anything to do with that organisation again, OK.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:You really are an just a jumped up little dictator LD, telling people what they can and cannot talk about and now telling people to bugger off

Excuse me.

But I will not stand by and have people have a go about me about Mothers Day, it's an especially serious day for me. It's a day I cherish.

So you can stick yourself where the sun doesn't shine as well.

Someone forgot their medication today, a nap may be advisable

No you and BamBam can stop being personal. That's advisable.

Seriously wind your neck in

You come on here constantly ranting without engaging your brain, you accused BamBam of trolling then told him to bugger off, this follows in you repeatedly telling people what they can and cannot discuss in these forums

You are today saying fans are being screwed, yet don't have the details of the deal you are complaining about but know someone is getting screwed. After repeatedly complaining about the lack of money in the league, more money comes in and you complain.  

Now you follow all this up by telling me where to go, seriously learn to take a deep breath or just grow the f*#k up and stop channelling your inner DUP

And you are on about me ?

Look, I never make anything personal on here. You constantly use insults and the moderators do nothing.

Also, for the record, do not ever accuse me of having anything to do with that organisation again, OK.

Calling people a troll and telling them to bugger off is personal but the lack of self awareness is a DUP trait

LordDowlais wrote:BBC Wales made a significantly higher offer than previously. This is a fact. I doubt very much TG4 have made an offer as big as BBC Wales did.
So you tell me, why would TG4 a free to air channel in Ireland get TV rights, and BBC Wales, a free to air TV channel in the UK not get any rights ?

They have better negotiators?

It keeps coming back to the question of who do you blame for either bad or non-existent negotiating skills. You and another always seem to say, by implication, that there are people in the Pro14 set-up from one section that don't seem to be able to force their attitudes and wishes through on anything.

I don't believe that; but by implication of all the issues you bring up that goes against the interests of Welsh fans and Welsh rugby, it seems you think that some people never get listened to.

Something isn't right about this latest TV deal. It just isn't. The Irish broadcasters must be laughing their heads off at the UK based fans. They must see us as a way of making a quick buck, off the back of the Pro14.

I will wait and see if S4C still gets rights. If they do not, then even then, even you, cannot deny that something is not right here. Because all of a sudden, free to air coverage is OK, but that's because it's TG4.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't TG4 be getting Irish language rights only - and 2nd pick at that?

So in both Ireland and the UK, the first pick and English language rights are on pay TV - EIR Sports and Premier Sports

So far, the Irish language rights have been announced to be on TG4 - again, correct me if I'm wrong

Has there been any confirmation that there will be no Welsh or Scottish language rights? Or that they won't be on FTA?