Joe Schmidt

First topic message reminder :

best coach in world rugby

Discuss!

No 7&1/2 wrote:Even the ones who don't know what he does. Like yourself.

He coaches the team 7.5

7.5, been meaning to ask......

‘Are England probably the best team in the world’?

Well on the Lions tour he lost one and drew the next at home to a thrown together side.

French refs were bent

What’s the largest number of games Schmidt has lost in a row with Ireland guns, is it 3? Or 4?

Already answered above ebop.

What has 7.5?

Number of Schmidt losses in a row

Or whether you still think England are the #1 team

I assumed you were directing the moron comment at me as I've only seen 1 or 2 others other than myself claim to believe england are the beat team in the world. I tend to answer. Happy to elaborate but probably not best for a schmidt thread.

No need to be shy 7.5. I’m sure even the Schmidt-o-lytes will be interested in your thoughts on whether you think England are still probably the best team in the world.

Already answered on whether I think that is the case.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I still think england are the best team

My apologies, you did answer the question

No 7&1/2 wrote:I still think england are the best team. I think we'll see that going from the AIs and into the 6ns. If people want to ask why that is I will do my best to answer them. Why won't you answer points on hansen coaching? I have no problem you thinking it but surely you can explain why you hold th view other than win %?

Really? Not at the moment anyway. Time will tell if Jones can turn it around.

Also did you know that Ireland's head to head over England in the 6 nations is 11 wins to Ireland 8 to England.

And possibly not with the team and conditioning put out in this 6 nations. So yes I expect england to go on another bit of a roll now but we did miss the ball carrying we normally get from 8 and it disrupted our normal.balance along with loss of form to our locks.I do think you need a longer view than the last few games but not sure the current team can be judged on 10 or so years of results!

Yeah fair enough but England has lost the last two against Ireland and significantly the last one at home when they never looked like winning. It would be quite a stretch to justify calling them better than Ireland right now.

No we were a bit of a shambles by the time we met you. A bit of.luck going the wrong way and you looked comfortable. If we're judging purely on this 6Ns I'd agree ireland are better.

ebop wrote:No need to be shy 7.5. I’m sure even the Schmidt-o-lytes will be interested in your thoughts on whether you think England are still probably the best team in the world.

Are England even the best team in England?

No 7&1/2 wrote:No we were a bit of a shambles by the time we met you. A bit of.luck going the wrong way and you looked comfortable.  If we're judging purely on this 6Ns I'd agree ireland are better.

If you want to bring luck into it England were probably closer to losing to Wales than winning against Ireland. No?

Yup. I'd say that's fair.

Coaches improve teams. Joe has done that for Ireland. They have improved.

We are not saying the best team has the best coach which we all know (some it's deep down) that it is not true.

Jones was the best coach at the last world cup no doubt about it. Hansen took the favourites and won. Joe took a good Ireland team and got to the quarters. Jones took a rubbish team to become the first team every to only lose one game and not get to the quarters. There were three teams better than his and he beat two of them. That is why he was the best coach.

As Ireland proved in the last two world cups we don't do favourite and lost badly. Joe has now just gone through 5 games as favourite and won each game. That is down to Joe and how he has dealt with it through his coaching skills.

Fyi, Ireland's longest losing run under Schmidt is 2 games. It's happened 4 times I believe

the-goon wrote:Fyi, Ireland's longest losing run under Schmidt is 2 games. It's happened 4 times I believe

Including his first 2 games v Australia and NZ no?

Collapse2005 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I still think england are the best team. I think we'll see that going from the AIs and into the 6ns. If people want to ask why that is I will do my best to answer them. Why won't you answer points on hansen coaching? I have no problem you thinking it but surely you can explain why you hold th view other than win %?

Really? Not at the moment anyway

Exactly guns

England aren’t even the fourth best team in Europe

7.5, you’re being a bit blindly arrogant

ebop wrote:

England aren’t even the fourth best team in Europe

7.5, you’re being a bit blindly arrogant

England had a poor 6N, nobody would deny that but that does not make them a bad team over night...

eirebilly wrote:

ebop wrote:

England aren’t even the fourth best team in Europe

7.5, you’re being a bit blindly arrogant

England had a poor 6N, nobody would deny that but that does not make them a bad team over night...

But they kind of did become a bad team over night

I know that people get excited after the 6Ns and start making wild claims but 7.5 claiming England are still the best team in the world after finishing 5th in the 6Ns is ‘pretty special’

You’d have to admit that wouldn’t you eirebilly? That it’s pretty special. That England are better than Ireland, thoughts on that eirebilly?

I do not agree that England are the best team in the world, no but I also do not think that 7&1/2 was saying that. I think he was saying that England are still the best team in the NH. I also do not think that as I feel Ireland are currently better. I do not feel there is very much between Ireland, England, Wales, Scotland and France to be honest as I think either can beat each other on their day.

Not sure how you can say that 7&1/2 is blindly arrogant...

eirebilly wrote:I do not agree that England are the best team in the world, no but I also do not think that 7&1/2 was saying that

That’s the thing eirebilly, you need to keep up with play

ebop wrote:Probably the same morons that thought England were the best team in the world, prior to the 6Ns of course

7&1/2 wrote:I still think england are the best team. I think we'll see that going from the AIs and into the 6ns

7.5 thinks England are better than Ireland and the All Blacks, right now, today

Well I interpreted his comments differently to you ebop, not about 'keeping up with play'. I thought he meant in the context of the 6N results, maybe I am wrong but am sure 7&1/2 can quantify.

Of course you interpret it differently eirebilly, goes without saying. What you may not be aware of is that 7.5 has claimed England ‘are’ the best team for a while now. Maybe 7.5 can jump in and explain what he meant when he said England are ‘still’ the best team in the world even though they never were and especially after the very poor 6Ns effort. He said he would if asked.

Well you'll have read the conversation with guns above to say I'm not basing it on this 6 nations. But come the AIs and into next year I think well see a run of wins. Yes if you want to pick the last team we put out I don't think we are there. I think the big minus points for us were our locks didn't get going at. Carrying injuries yes but they were as a group no where near where they have been over the last 2 years and beyond. We also lost vunipola and Hughes which is a major part of how we play. The guys hat could have come in like Clifford curry and then underhill all out. Without that balance we look a shadow of the side we are. So when I say I think england are the best team I think with the players we can out rather than the players we were forced to put out this tournament. I'd also challenge the view that the 6 nations conclusively proves by itself who the best team is in the nh due to the format of it been consistent in that view.

Well 7&1/2, I think that is a very bold claim to make. As good as Ireland are right now, I would still say that NZ are the best team in the world.

To be the best team in the world you have to have a strong strength in depth to be able to cover players that will get injured. To say that players were missing which is why England had a poor 6N is an excuse many teams could use. NZ have a great strength in depth and it shows due to their consistency and ability to cover injuries.

Ireland, under Schmidt, have developed great strength in depth and it is showing in the results and consistency which is why I see Ireland to be in a slightly better position than England right now. Sure Ireland have their own issues, lose either Murray or Sexton and they would struggle but I believe that Schmidt is working on that very well (see Carbery this 6N at 10).

You could be right. It's just opinions. Losing our first 3 number 8s hit us hard and forces us to throw guys straight back in. I'm also slightly alarmed how much we rely on ben youngs to direct the pack.

You guys are deluded. Hansens the best coach. By a mile. Record speaks for itself. Excuses like he coaches the best team, hes one of many that steer the side blah blah. Making fantasies up to suit your narrative. No one has built more depth than Hansen, and that includes every other NZ coach before him. And unlike Schmidt hes had to cover a plethora of legends retiring and going north during his tenure, and continued to win the key matches and trophies while doing so.

Irish players dont all flock anywhere else to play before they retire do they?

Your NH clubs strip out most of the Oz and SA depth themyou claim your test victories over them. Wow, real classy.

Anyway, carry on, Schmidts the best...

Lets hope he doesnt flop like a wet rag at next years main event again then.

eirebilly wrote:Well 7&1/2, I think that is a very bold claim to make. As good as Ireland are right now, I would still say that NZ are the best team in the world.

To be the best team in the world you have to have a strong strength in depth to be able to cover players that will get injured. To say that players were missing which is why England had a poor 6N is an excuse many teams could use. NZ have a great strength in depth and it shows due to their consistency and ability to cover injuries.

Ireland, under Schmidt, have developed great strength in depth and it is showing in the results and consistency which is why I see Ireland to be in a slightly better position than England right now. Sure Ireland have their own issues, lose either Murray or Sexton and they would struggle but I believe that Schmidt is working on that very well (see Carbery this 6N at 10).

Yesit getsconfusing down here as to who the challengers are. First we’re told its England, then its oh no, we got that wrong, its actually Ireland now. Wonder who’ll be the next flavour. Georgia?

You don't follow much rugby if you think Georgia are tier 1.

Watch more rugby you'll enjoy it.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Watch more rugby you'll enjoy it.

Ok, when are Georgia playing next then?

Check the internet.

Taylorman wrote:You guys are deluded. Hansens the best coach. By a mile. Record speaks for itself. Excuses like he coaches the best team, hes one of many that steer the side blah blah. Making fantasies up to suit your narrative. No one has built more depth than Hansen, and that includes every other NZ coach before him. And unlike Schmidt hes had to cover a plethora of legends retiring and going north during his tenure, and continued to win the key matches and trophies while doing so.

Irish players dont all flock anywhere else to play before they retire do they?

Your NH clubs strip out most of the Oz and SA depth themyou claim your test victories over them. Wow, real classy.

Anyway, carry on, Schmidts the best...

Lets hope he doesnt flop like a wet rag at next years main event again then.

Thats not true. Of the Irish squad that lined up against England, only 8 of the 23 were in the same fixture 2 years ago. It was probably the youngest ever Ireland squad in the 6 nations.


While I agree that Hansen and NZ are the best in the world, you're underestimating NH rugby. The improvement in NH in the last number of years has been big. There hasn't been a sudden jump but an each team takes a step back and 2 steps forward kind of thing.


I'm sure none of those facts will register with you because I've seen you on 'the Roar' and whenever someone has something good to say about NH rugby you get triggered and feel the need to bash it.

profitius wrote:

Taylorman wrote:You guys are deluded. Hansens the best coach. By a mile. Record speaks for itself. Excuses like he coaches the best team, hes one of many that steer the side blah blah. Making fantasies up to suit your narrative. No one has built more depth than Hansen, and that includes every other NZ coach before him. And unlike Schmidt hes had to cover a plethora of legends retiring and going north during his tenure, and continued to win the key matches and trophies while doing so.

Irish players dont all flock anywhere else to play before they retire do they?

Your NH clubs strip out most of the Oz and SA depth themyou claim your test victories over them. Wow, real classy.

Anyway, carry on, Schmidts the best...

Lets hope he doesnt flop like a wet rag at next years main event again then.

Thats not true. Of the Irish squad that lined up against England, only 8 of the 23 were in the same fixture 2 years ago. It was probably the youngest ever Ireland squad in the 6 nations.


While I agree that Hansen and NZ are the best in the world, you're underestimating NH rugby. The improvement in NH in the last number of years has been big. There hasn't been a sudden jump but an each team takes a step back and 2 steps forward kind of thing.


I'm sure none of those facts will register with you because I've seen you on 'the Roar' and whenever someone has something good to say about NH rugby you get triggered and feel the need to bash it.

Im not underestimating NH rugby with this post. Im disagreeing on the general consensus here that Schmidt is in fact the best coach. Hes not, simple as that, because any comparison with their achievements wont see him ahead of Hansen.

I have doubts that NH rugby is as strong as people think it is yes because the ONLY signs of it happen to coincide with two of the poorest periods in the history of both SA and Oz rugby. And those periods happen to coincide with greater playing numbers of SHers in the NH.

There are more All Blacks playing in the NH than there are in the SH. That is an unbelievable stat. One NHers just do not comprehend in terms of the impact on our rugby.

How many test playing NHers are supporting SH teams?

Yes I knock it, and if the comparison was a genuine one, I wouldnt. But the relative improvement of the NH over the south is far from a comprehensive one.

It is more likely NH rugby has improved because of the presence of SH players and coaches there, and the absence of the same here. It is a far more convincing argument then ‘the NH has improved’ its rugby.

I for one dont see a plethora of world class individuals avross the sudes that stand out in a way they never used to. Ireland have Sexton, Murray, SOB as their leading individuals. Theyve been around for years. Wales? England? Who are the real standouts?

Personally I dont see great rugby individuals challenging the mantles of the greats. Their standard in general might have improved but its not that obvious in terms of standout players.

Forgive me if I am misinterpreting you but the narrative of 'NH is weak' at a time when the teams are more competitive with NZ would suggest that the coaches up there are quite capable no? Unless NZ is so weakened by the mass exodus of players North. I would be interested to see how many Test Kiwis will be playing in the semi finals of the European Cup. A fair few lost at the weekend NH player dominated sides.

What are the criteria for deciding on who is 'the best coach in the world'? It may be Hansen. He has the results. He also has the best support structure from top to bottom of any other coach.

Engine#4 wrote:Forgive me if I am misinterpreting you but the narrative of 'NH is weak' at a time when the teams are more competitive with NZ would suggest that the coaches up there are quite capable no? Unless NZ is so weakened by the mass exodus of players North. I would be interested to see how many Test Kiwis will be playing in the semi finals of the European Cup. A fair few lost at the weekend NH player dominated sides.

What are the criteria for deciding on who is 'the best coach in the world'? It may be Hansen. He has the results. He also has the best support structure from top to bottom of any other coach.

Exactly, set the criteria before universally agreeing on Schmidt. And having the better support structure doesnt make Schmidt a better coach. Thats logically poor.

And the fact that theyre not winning in the north isnt the point. Cruden, Faumuina would be on the bench in our next test. 100% certain. Several others would be in the squad. Sapoaga is going next. We have to find a new test 10. So by that alone, we have a weaker squad, whether we win or not. Ireland for example dont have that problem whatsoever. Send your next best 2 10s hete and see what your depth is like.

I don't think the argument that someone in any field working with less might be better than one working with far more is logically poor. It is just difficult to prove.

Engine#4 wrote:I don't think the argument that someone in any field working with less might be better than one working with far more is logically poor. It is just difficult to prove.

Yes agree with that, its just the biggest actual changes in the professional environment between north and south is the significant drift north of not only large but now key players. That single factor is by far the most obvious change in the last few years. That it happens to councide with the first ever real period of the northern teams competing with SH sides across the 6N sides for me is too compelling a factor to ignore. Difficult to prove yes, but also difficult to deny such a compelling factor, particularly when there are no others of that magnitude.

Get your point though.

But the "best" is subjective to the viewer.
Your best may not be my best. And to categorically state one way or other speaks to a fragile ego.
So let's just say rugby is but a game. Not really that important in the wider aspects of the fun thing we call life

carpet baboon wrote:But the "best" is subjective to the viewer.
Your best may not be my best. And to categorically state one way or other speaks to a fragile ego.
So let's just say rugby is but a game. Not really that important in the wider aspects of the fun thing we call life

Hmmm...extending that...Isn't life a game? Importance in life is subjective as well isnt it? Its just about what you fill it with. A childs education might be important to one person, where England beating Ireland might be just as important to someone else. I don't believe a 'game' can be dismissed as not as important as a rule. To some, whether you agree or not, its everything.

Taylorman wrote:

Exactly, set the criteria before universally agreeing on Schmidt. And having the better support structure doesnt make Schmidt a better coach. Thats logically poor.

And the fact that theyre not winning in the north isnt the point. Cruden, Faumuina would be on the bench in our next test. 100% certain. Several others would be in the squad. Sapoaga is going next. We have to find a new test 10. So by that alone, we have a weaker squad, whether we win or not. Ireland for example dont have that problem whatsoever. Send your next best 2 10s hete and see what your depth is like.

Ireland's second choice 10 was Paddy Jackson and he is due to sign a contract abroad in France or England. Ian Madigan was the back up before him and he is currently playing in England. Both those guys you could argue would be ahead of Joey Carbery who is currently the 2nd choice 10.

Brace team who takes on jackson.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Brace team who takes on jackson.

Why?

Helps if I can type brave. The expected protests following his trial.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Helps if I can type brave. The expected protests following his trial.

Its a shame IMO but there are crazy people out there.

In Ireland the exact same people protesting the introduction of water charges and the repeal of the 8th amendment on abortion were out again in numbers to appeal the outcome of the trial. The majority of these people are too thick to understand what they are protesting about in my experience.