Joe Schmidt

First topic message reminder :

best coach in world rugby

Discuss!

ebop wrote:
To be fair guns, rugby players having a cry in front of the camera is a relatively recent phenomenon and Irish rugby players like BOD have lead the charge.

You say it like its a bad thing. To be honest about how you feel takes more bravery than to cover it up.

I do think though and I have said it before Schmidt has removed an unsustainable over reliance on emotion from the Ireland team which has paid dividends.

eirebilly wrote:1. If Hansen quit today, who would your choice to replace him?

For me I’d pick someone with a SR coaching background and I wouldn’t mind if Deans was given another chance. I don’t think Foster will be head coach but you never know. I like Rennie and Razor Robertson for the future. But there’s others like Boyd, Plumtree, Joseph and Cooper racking up experience and young coaches like Tony Brown and Mauger that are in the game and could step up one day. Not to mention those at European clubs like Blackadder and Lam but these guys never did that well in SR.

eirebilly wrote:2. Do you think that Schmidt would do very badly as New Zealand coach or do you think he would keep New Zealand as the best in the world and win the RWC?

No, I don’t think he’d do very badly. He may struggle but I’m sure he’d figure it out.

In terms of the future ABs coach, the fear with bringing in guys like Schmidt and Gatland is that they’re far removed from NZ rugby, and although they’re kiwis, they’re effectively UK coaches with UK ways. NZR have struck on a winning formula the last few RWC cycles and although we can’t expect it to just continue without fresh ideas and fresh people being brought to the table, guys like Schmidt and Gatland may be a bit too ingrained in ‘their’ ways and may try to rip up the NZ manual without acknowledging what’s happened before them.

An AB coach can’t be a dictator, which I get the feeling Schmidt is. Is the tight control he has over his team reflected in the low frills but effective style that Ireland play where perhaps his players aren’t emboldened to play what’s in front of them out of fear? We can’t have that in NZ. At SR level and most definitely not at the national level. This is a massive point of difference between NZ and a lot of other countries and does Schmidt have an open enough mind to accept that this is the way rugby is played in NZ from 1 through 15 to 23.

The current set up with Hansen in charge knows when and how to bring new players into the fold and it’s fair to say this conveyorbelt and future development is key to AB success. Do Schmidt and Gatland blood a lot of new players or do they rely on the chosen few and pray there’s no injuries or don’t give much thought to future development?  Rest and rotation is a thing in NZ. Player sabbaticals. Fringe ABs leave for lucrative overseas contracts. There’s a constant turnover and need to develop and evolve that guys like Schmidt and Gatland may not be used to and get caught out if they think they’re still in Europe.

I also wonder who they’d team up with in terms of assistant coaches given they’re far removed from NZ rugby. There is absolutely no chance the assistants wouldn’t be from NZ.

ebop wrote:

eirebilly wrote:1. If Hansen quit today, who would your choice to replace him?

For me I’d pick someone with a SR coaching background and I wouldn’t mind if Deans was given another chance. I don’t think Foster will be head coach but you never know. I like Rennie and Razor Robertson for the future. But there’s others like Boyd, Plumtree, Joseph and Cooper racking up experience and young coaches like Tony Brown and Mauger that are in the game and could step up one day. Not to mention those at European clubs like Blackadder and Lam but these guys never did that well in SR.

eirebilly wrote:2. Do you think that Schmidt would do very badly as New Zealand coach or do you think he would keep New Zealand as the best in the world and win the RWC?

No, I don’t think he’d do very badly. He may struggle but I’m sure he’d figure it out.



I also wonder who they’d team up with in terms of assistant coaches given they’re far removed from NZ rugby. There is absolutely no chance the assistants wouldn’t be from NZ.

Rob Howley and Robyn McBride, obvs

ebop wrote:

In terms of the future ABs coach, the fear with bringing in guys like Schmidt and Gatland is that they’re far removed from NZ rugby, and although they’re kiwis, they’re effectively UK coaches with UK ways. NZR have struck on a winning formula the last few RWC cycles and although we can’t expect it to just continue without fresh ideas and fresh people being brought to the table, guys like Schmidt and Gatland may be a bit too ingrained in ‘their’ ways and may try to rip up the NZ manual without acknowledging what’s happened before them.

An AB coach can’t be a dictator, which I get the feeling Schmidt is. Is the tight control he has over his team reflected in the low frills but effective style that Ireland play where perhaps his players aren’t emboldened to play what’s in front of them out of fear? We can’t have that in NZ. At SR level and most definitely not at the national level. This is a massive point of difference between NZ and a lot of other countries and does Schmidt have an open enough mind to accept that this is the way rugby is played in NZ from 1 through 15 to 23.

The current set up with Hansen in charge knows when and how to bring new players into the fold and it’s fair to say this conveyorbelt and future development is key to AB success. Do Schmidt and Gatland blood a lot of new players or do they rely on the chosen few and pray there’s no injuries or don’t give much thought to future development?  Rest and rotation is a thing in NZ. Player sabbaticals. Fringe ABs leave for lucrative overseas contracts. There’s a constant turnover and need to develop and evolve that guys like Schmidt and Gatland may not be used to and get caught out if they think they’re still in Europe.

I also wonder who they’d team up with in terms of assistant coaches given they’re far removed from NZ rugby. There is absolutely no chance the assistants wouldn’t be from NZ.

Just to pick two points out there, highlighted. Are you stating that Hansen is obliged to follow the AB culture and as such not stamp his authority on the team he coaches, is that not akin to being a puppet on a string in that set up?

Schmidt has done two very important things for Ireland.

1. He has been an extremely important in the changing of the Irish rugby culture.
2. He has completely changed the Irish players philosphy, they are now far more confident as individuals and a team.

Do you not see these two points as being excellent qualities for an International coach?

Schmidt has also created a conveyor belt of players (look at Leinster with the amount of top players coming out of there right now, that is Schmidt's legacy to Leinster) these players and players from other provinces, are gradually being introduced to the Irish side and are also seamlessly fitting in.

Before this 6N (I am one of Schmidt's harshest critics) I would have said that he would not be a good AB coach as he was too negative. After this 6N and the way Ireland played then I would say he is one of the most innovative coaches out there and one that could certainly do a good job as the AB coach.

Very interesting response. I have never seen NZ concerns about Schmidt and Gatland laid out like that. Especially the Schmidt as dictator point. He is a dictator. It's his way or get out unless you have very a well thought out alternative. He doesn't care who disagrees with him. I can see why you think that may not work in NZ. To flip that, from an external perspective my impression is that Hansen is more like the pope in NZ rugby. He is infallible. He doesn't get questioned at home and gets cranky when questioned abroad. I think a coach like that would struggle in charge of Ireland.

Engine#4 wrote:Very interesting response. I have never seen NZ concerns about Schmidt and Gatland laid out like that. Especially the Schmidt as dictator point. He is a dictator. It's his way or get out unless you have very a well thought out alternative. He doesn't care who disagrees with him. I can see why you think that may not work in NZ. To flip that, from an external perspective my impression is that Hansen is more like the pope in NZ rugby. He is infallible. He doesn't get questioned at home and gets cranky when questioned abroad. I think a coach like that would struggle in charge of Ireland.

Yes we had coaches like that, Mitchell was an autocrat and Henry started off that way. Between them and Wayne Smith they built a dynasty that still survives today. Ebops right in Schmidts not being familiar with NZ rugby. Schmidt doesnt have to cope with the masses that leave NZ. He has the odd player tied up with England clubs but nothing on the scale we have here. Here its a juggling act, taking risks with player who might jump if not.

He missed the McCaw, Carter years where standards were consistently up there and would need to get back and coach here. Success as a winning SR coach is more relevant than as an Ireland coach to NZ rugby.

Our coaches generally take up club positions in north for similar reasons and I would think that would be a pre requisite here, mainly because of the length of his absence.

Totally agree, Joe has to work with a very limited Irish squad in terms of numbers and ability - about as far removed from NZ resources as he could get. He would be a poor fit for the ABs and should stay with Ireland, where he is appreciated.

The Great Aukster wrote:Totally agree, Joe has to work with a very limited Irish squad in terms of numbers and ability - about as far removed from NZ resources as he could get. He would be a poor fit for the ABs and should stay with Ireland, where he is appreciated.

I think there is a good chance he will stay on in Ireland and sign a contract extension. He seems pretty rooted here. He family are all fairly embedded into the Irish or French way of life.

He probably should do, theres more going for him there. Its an easier path overall for him, hes settled, proven. The challenges to keep NZ ahead of the peleton is getting tougher every year with player drain and lower attendances, Super rugby failing to appeal with the lack of good competition from the other franchises.

He’d have to resettle as well as relearn nz rugby, something thats nothing like when he left.

And we have other options, Hansen may even stay on. Whoever gets the gig will have it tough in this environment.

Taylorman I doubt any NZ coach would turn down the chance to coach the All Blacks. No matter how comfortable he is where he is it has to be a lifelong ambition of his to coach his own country's team and an opportunity that he may not get again if he's offered it now. Schmidt has gradually taken on more and more challenging roles in his career in different countries. Change clearly doesn't worry him and indeed he might relish it.