Time for the Pro 14 to push for higher representation and higher share of $ in European Cup

b]Current Position =[/b]

Champions Cup

Nineteen clubs will qualify automatically for the 2018/19 Champions Cup in the following ways :.

• Guinness PRO14 (7): The three highest ranked clubs from each conference. The fourth-ranked clubs from each conference will play off for the seventh place. (NB South African clubs are not eligible.)

• TOP 14 (6): The six highest-ranked clubs based on their final finishing positions.

• Aviva Premiership (6): The six highest-ranked clubs based on their final finishing positions.

New Agreement =

Champions Cup

Nineteen clubs will qualify automatically for the 2018/19 Champions Cup in the following ways :.

• Guinness PRO14 (8): The four highest ranked clubs from each conference.

• TOP 14 (7): The seventh highest-ranked clubs based on their final finishing positions.

• Aviva Premiership (4): The four highest-ranked clubs based on their final finishing positions.

That way we can follow the advise Austin Healey made in 2013  

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/10309458/Breakaway-from-Heineken-Cup-by-English-and-French-clubs-will-prove-the-right-move-all-round.html

alive555 wrote:b]Current Position =[/b]

Champions Cup

Nineteen clubs will qualify automatically for the 2018/19 Champions Cup in the following ways :.

• Guinness PRO14 (7): The three highest ranked clubs from each conference. The fourth-ranked clubs from each conference will play off for the seventh place. (NB South African clubs are not eligible.)

• TOP 14 (6): The six highest-ranked clubs based on their final finishing positions.

• Aviva Premiership (6): The six highest-ranked clubs based on their final finishing positions.

New Agreement =

Champions Cup

Nineteen clubs will qualify automatically for the 2018/19 Champions Cup in the following ways :.

• Guinness PRO14 (8): The four highest ranked clubs from each conference.

• TOP 14 (7): The seventh highest-ranked clubs based on their final finishing positions.

• Aviva Premiership (4): The four highest-ranked clubs based on their final finishing positions.

That way we can follow the advise Austin Healey made in 2013  

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/10309458/Breakaway-from-Heineken-Cup-by-English-and-French-clubs-will-prove-the-right-move-all-round.html

I know this is a bit tongue in cheek, but...

Firstly I think we have to be careful when allocating qualification places on who is winning or even competing at the sharp ends of tournaments. E.g. in your situation you have taken qualification away from Leicester/Newcastle and Gloucester based and awarded them to Ulster and Pau based on the performances of Leinster and Racing.

If we want a truer meritocracy, then the only fair way is to do interleague qualifiers. So award each league say 4 automatic qualifiers for 12 and have the remaining 8 positions up for grabs by 8 two-legged play-offs. You could have 4 more from England and France, 6 from Pro-14 (four on league position, with 2 reserved for "best finishers" if a union not otherwised recognised in the play-offs) and 2 from minor European countries. The 8 losers would end up in the Amlin. You could play the play-offs when league semi-finals and finals are played (although you'd have to get league alignment from the French, who often play a week later to fit in their quarter-finals).

So looking at the likely 2017/18 tables:

Premiership
Automatic qualifiers: Exeter, Saracens, Wasps, Leicester (sorry Falcons)
Qualification round: Newcastle, Gloucester, Sale, Bath

Pro-14
Automatic qualifiers: Glasgow, Munster, Leinster, Scarlets
Qualification round: Edinburgh, Blues, Ulster, Treviso, Ospreys, Connacht

Top-14
Automatic qualifiers: Montpellier, Toulouse, Racing, Toulon
Qualification round: Lyon, Castres, Pau, La Rochelle

With two minor European clubs in the qualifiers.

You could seed 2 from the Prem, 4 from the Pro-14, 2 from the Top-14, and then put league protection on the play-offs. That would give you something like:

Newcastle v Connacht
Gloucester v La Rochelle
Edinburgh v Europe 2
Blues v Bath
Ulster v Sale
Treviso v Pau
Lyon v Europe 1
Castres v Ospreys

Which means you really open the tournament up for the strongest teams. Case in point, one of Ospreys and Ulster and both Treviso and Connacht will possibly miss out on Champions Cup qualification due to current qualification. But if they are stronger teams playing in a stronger league, they are going to be punished. Rather than arguing which league is stronger in the boardroom and allocating places based on past performance, would it not make more sense to settle it on the pitch?

I think its surely must be time for the PRL and BT sports to hold European rugby to ransom again given that there was only one English team in the Semis. Change the rules rather than sort your own house out. Good plan, no?

I actually think the SA sides should be able to play in it.
It would bring in Money money from TV rights in SA, and sponsors will pay extra to have XXmillion people see their brand.

I am sure all the Pro 12 unions and sides will be in favour of it, as I am sure it was part of the deal in them joining the Pro 14, and the extra European money will help them.

Just leave qualification as it is, but Pro 14 get bigger 1/19 slice of the pie

The French and English would not object to their being more money in the pot.

The downside it travel, and how to fit them in.

Play off games do add extra games to an already crowded fixture list. They would have to be at end of domestic season, and most would agree it would cut into the little rest time players get anyway, and you would have to wait until the top 14 finishes, as the 6th place team there may be in the final.

I know there have been a lot of articles in the British press about the premiership and all that but I think one talked about the PRL looking to reduce the number teams in the Champs Cup to make it special.

This year the Pro 14 did well but the T14 did as well.
Would rather it worked out as (each league would loose one automatic place but could gain up to 4)
4 finalists automatically qualified
5 Premership
5 T14
6 Pro14
That would allow teams be rewarded for making the big day and also the league when stronger.  If the Pro 14 only got 6 stops well though luck (though having 6 teams in the Challenge would up their chance of getting more the next year)

Top seeded teams would be the two euro winners plus the winners of each league (finalist of league if already seeded, or highest league finisher not seeded - in the unlikely event that the two teams who win the Euros are the same two in the league final)

For this year it would work out as
Pro14 - 8
Prem - 6
T14 - 6

Last year (I think)
Pro 14 - 7
Prem - 6
T14 - 7

Top 4 teams from the three leagues. 4 pools of 3 teams. 4 pool games, semifinals and final.

Remaining 32 teams into the knockout Million Challenge Cup - random draw for the two knockout rounds to bring it to 8 teams who then play home and away quarters and semis. Winning team gets a €1m pot.

Pot Hale wrote:Top 4 teams from the three leagues.  4 pools of 3 teams.  4 pool games, semifinals and final.  

Remaining 32 teams into the knockout Million Challenge Cup - random draw for the two knockout rounds to bring it to 8 teams who then play home and away quarters and semis.  Winning team gets a €1m pot.

Haha! Good one!

The tournament would be massively improvely by removing the Italians. The SA sides already look better (well, one of them).

Kingshu wrote:I actually think the SA sides should be able to play in it.
It would bring in Money money from TV rights in SA, and sponsors will pay extra to have XXmillion people see their brand.

I am sure all the Pro 12 unions and sides will be in favour of it, as I am sure it was part of the deal in them joining the Pro 14, and the extra European money will help them.

Just leave qualification as it is, but Pro 14 get bigger 1/19 slice of the pie

The French and English would not object to their being more money in the pot.

The downside it travel, and how to fit them in.

Play off games do add extra games to an already crowded fixture list. They would have to be at end of domestic season, and most would agree it would cut into the little rest time players get anyway, and you would have to wait until the top 14 finishes, as the 6th place team there may be in the final.

Surely its not all about money. Id rather the Italian teams play in it unless SA replaces Italy in the six nations.

Just leave it alone for a while.

Following the last lot of changes the three leagues get a pretty even share of places. Some years the English will win as they did in the last two years. Some years the Pro14 teams will do well and some years the Pro14 will. That is as it should be.

Cyril wrote:The tournament would be massively improvely by removing the Italians. The SA sides already look better (well, one of them).

Going on current form Treviso would be no worse than Ospreys, Ulster or Blues and next season will be no Italians. Treviso will be expecting a quarter final in the Challenge Cup as they will be one of the highest ranked teams in it next year. And also going off who from the Pro 14 made the quarters the last two years Treviso should make it.
Also I am sure fans would rather Italy to South Africa for an away trip

Exiledinborders wrote:Just leave it alone for a while.

Following the last lot of changes the three leagues get a pretty even share of places. Some years the English will win as they did in the last two years. Some years the Pro14 teams will do well and some years the Pro14 will. That is as it should be.

I like the way the PRO14 gets two bites of the cherry in some years.