F1 Racing Point Belgium GP Thread

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First topic message reminder :

Imagine it'll all be temp like most street circuits

[Fernando]

Sirotkin's deal was multi-year wasn't it?

Atleast we're moving away from pay drivers more or less now.

[Guest]

Mick Schumacher is the 2018 FIA Formula 3 champion. He’ll be in F1 in 2020.

Stoffel Vandoorne has confirmed that he will race for HWA Racelab, in the Formula E Championship in 2019.

[Fernando]

Apparently it's between Ocon & Kubica for Williams 2nd seat due to smp having funding issues so can't guarantee on Sirotkin/Markelov being able to pay up.

Paddy wants Kubica for experience due to Russell being a junior still

[dyrewolfe]

Apparently it's between Ocon & Kubica for Williams 2nd seat due to smp having funding issues so can't guarantee on Sirotkin/Markelov being able to pay up.

Paddy wants Kubica for experience due to Russell being a junior still

Understandable, that an engineer would prefer a driver who can give better technical feedback. A bit of me would love to see Kubica back in a race seat, remembering his potential when he first came into the sport.

However, if you're looking for results, I think Ocon would be the better bet. He knows the cars and has actual recent race experience. Performed well in the Force India.

Then again, considering where Williams are, maybe they'll just be looking for someone who can help them develop a competitive car?

[Guest]

Sergio Perez extends contract at Force India

Three place grid penalty for Vettel

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Getting a bit confused with all these penalties. FIA stated you have to slow down between to points on the track. Vettel had already passed the first delta point before the red flag was dropped. Therefore he would've required be basically be near a standstill to have not reached the second delta too quickly.

The stewards had been too lenient in seasons gone by, but this year the penalties are some what over the top.

Not that it will effects this season but they need to have independent stewards not at the race venue to get more logical penalties

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Kimi Raikkonen wins the American Grand Prix with magnificent drive. Verstappen second and Hamilton third. Vettel fourth after crashing with Riccardo

[No name Bertie]

Mercedes were in a position to win this race but blew it on strategy - by not bringing in Hamilton for his second pit stop much sooner.  If he had pitted four / five laps earlier he would have been in second place and much closer to Raikkonen, with Raikkonen on older tyres.   It was clear that Mercedes were significantly harsher on their tyres than both Ferrari and Red Bull.  Raikkonen did a great job in delaying Hamilton before Raikkonen had to pit.  

Ferrari seem to have clawed back the disadvantage in speed that they had with Mercedes in the past three races.  Currently it looks like Ferrari and Mercedes are back neck and neck in terms of speed.   However Mercedes have essentially an unassailable lead in the drivers championships and most likely the constructor championship.

For Ferrari to win the drivers championship from here Vettel has to win the last three races and Hamilton must not get more than four points.

In the next race if Vettel doesn't win Hamilton will win the Drivers Championship even if Hamilton doesn't finish.   Alternately Hamilton will win the Drivers Championship if he finishes 7th or better.

[No name Bertie]

I think next year may be Ferrari's and Vettel's year.  Depending on what Honda produce for their engine - the Red Bull may be also in the mix.   In terms of progress Ferrari seem to have the momentum.  Vettel is clearly their lead man and generally significantly quicker than Raikkonen.  Vettel has probably overpushed things in the second part of this season and has suffered for it - making costly mistakes.  He and Ferrari needed to be a little more patient and cautious.  But I suppose they were so desperate to win and saw that they had the car to win it - that they were a little too anxious.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

With the reduced aero regulations coming in 2019, should Honda produce a good engine, then Newey could be the key to winning Red Bull the championship again.

Ferrari should've won in 2017 and 2018, 2017 reliably and Vettel crash in Singapore, 2018 Ferrari's strategy has been poor and Vettel over drove and made far too many errors. Whilst their car is still fast, I think their opportunities have passed them by. Ferrari's development has been poor post monza all the upgrades in Singapore and Sochi where awful. The old spec car won in Texas, says a lot.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Ocon and Magnussen both DQ'd for fuel flow and excessive fuel consumption. Hartley p9 and Ericsson p10 the beneficiaries

[dyrewolfe]

Well that was interesting.

Best conclusion to a race this season, with 3 different teams contesting the podium places. Just a pity by that stage they were so evenly matched for pace. Nice duel between Verstappen & Hamilton...could have done with a bit more of that.

Great first lap by Kimi and did well to hold Hamilton up long enough to throw Mercedes' strategy off. Happy to see him get the win. Vettel showing once again that he really does not do wheel to wheel racing very well. Ricciardo gave him plenty of room, but still ended up banging wheels.

Definitely one of Max's more mature drives. Excellent job to fight back to 2nd place and hold off a pretty determined challenge by Hamilton. Less said about Ricciardo's awful luck with reliability the better. 7th DNF of the season...I guess in that regard he will be looking forward to joining Renault.

Decent race by Hamilton...looked well in control and on course for another win, despite Kimi taking the early lead. Think he pitted too early after the first stint and they waited too long to bring him in for his 2nd stop. Lost 12 seconds or so from his lead, which let Kimi retake the lead and Verstappen get ahead.

Good day for Renault, both cars finishing "best of the rest". Still a long way to go to catch up to the "Big 3" though. Be interesting to see if Ricciardo can get them challenging for podiums, at least.

All that remains is for Hamilton to turn up in Mexico to collect his trophy. Will probably be a real anti-climax after one of the more interesting races of the season.

[Guest]

Haas F1 will now be known as the Rich Energy Haas F1 Team from the 2019 season

Delighted for Ricciardo. All eyes on Max being the youngest pole sitter, and he’s stolen the show. Max is fuming. Hamilton in third, and Vettel in 4th.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Ricciardo
Verstappen
Hamilton
Vettel
Bottas
Kimi

Red Bull will get slipstreamed by the other 4 into t1

[Guest]

Mercedes struggling on their tyres. Mercedes nowhere today.

Max Verstappen wins a bizarre, Mexican GP.

Lewis Hamilton finishes 4th, and wins his fifth WDC

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Congrats Hamilton level head in 2017 and 2018 overcame Ferrari and Vettel brashness.

Secondly hands up to admit my error, Ferrari's battery wasn't illegal it was their crap aero upgrade in Singapore. Their straight line speed is still unmatched

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

For Ferrari to end their title drought they need English speaking staff on the pit wall.

[No name Bertie]

Despite Mercedes winning the drivers championship, the last two races have shown Mercedes to be on the back foot with Ferrari ahead and Red Bull very strong (despite issues with their engine).  Mercedes seem to have comparable but slightly less speed than Ferrari but are more aggressive on their tyres.  Tyres wear seems to be playing a very important role.

I am not sure what this means for the 2019 season - but surely at some stage soon Ferrari or Red Bull might move into favorite territory for the drivers & constructors championship.  Some had Ferrari as favorite this season - it seems like a disastrous upgrade (new aerodynamics) put paid to their championship challenge this season.

Next season will be a transitional season for Red Bull with the new Honda engine.  So surely 2019 will be Ferraris and Vettel's year with Mercedes surely now playing catch-up.

[dyrewolfe]

Despite Mercedes winning the drivers championship, the last two races have shown Mercedes to be on the back foot with Ferrari ahead and Red Bull very strong (despite issues with their engine).  Mercedes seem to have comparable but slightly less speed than Ferrari but are more aggressive on their tyres.  Tyres wear seems to be playing a very important role.

I am not sure what this means for the 2019 season - but surely at some stage soon Ferrari or Red Bull might move into favorite territory for the drivers & constructors championship.  Some had Ferrari as favorite this season - it seems like a disastrous upgrade (new aerodynamics) put paid to their championship challenge this season.

Next season will be a transitional season for Red Bull with the new Honda engine.  So surely 2019 will be Ferraris and Vettel's year with Mercedes surely now playing catch-up.

According to Andrew Benson, there hasn't been much to choose between Mercedes & Ferrari, with each team having a technical / performance advantage roughly 50% of the time. Whats really made the difference have been Ferrari's questionable strategy calls, Vettel's mistakes and Hamilton driving better than he has ever done...and more consistently.

Though, to be fair Ferrari have had some major upheavals, with the loss of Sergio Marchionne and changes to the engineering staff.

Next season is going to see a minor reset with some new design regs, so once again, this season won't be an indicator of the pecking order next season. To be honest, if Ferrari don't get their house in order, on the design side, I can see Mercedes & Hamilton winning again.


Another nightmare for Ricciardo - 8th DNF this season. Absolutely shocking reliability. He can only hope Renault will have got on top of their engine issues next season. Good win for Verstappen - prevented the weekend being a complete bust for Red Bull.

Really surprised by Ferrari's performance. Would have thought that with Mercedes out of the picture, they would have the race pace to get the win. Guessing those aero "upgrades" are hurting them more than I thought. Still a pretty good weekend for them, by this season's standards.

Mexico just doesn't seem to be a happy hunting ground for Mercedes lately. Both Bottas & Hamilton struggled with horrible tyre degradation. Still had enough performance to finish "best of the rest" and there was never any worry Lewis wouldn't bag his 5th title.

Also wondering...Mexico is a relatively high altitude circuit, so maybe the thinner air had more of an effect on the more powerful engines? Read somewhere they can lose around 100hp. Also provides less downforce. Red Bull are obviously more reliant on their aero to get through corners quickly, instead of straight line speed. Coupled with being easy on their tyres, that probably explains why they were so dominant here.

Good race for Sauber with both cars finishing in the points. Vandoorne finishing 8th for McLaren...

[Guest]

Schmidt Peterson Motorsports announced today that Marcus Ericsson will pilot the #7 Honda for the 2019 IndyCar Series season.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Robert Kubica linked with Ferrari development/simulator role for 2019, a position soon to be vacant following Kvyat and Giovinazzi's return to the grid. Interestingly Kubica wouldn't be Ferrari's reserve driver, that role remains with Giovinazzi.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Brendon Hartley has reportedly been axed by Red Bull again. There's been tension between Hartley and Gasly, whereby Red Bull have favored Gasly despite his indifferent form in the last few races. British-Thai Alexander Albon likely to get the seat

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Vietnam confirmed for 2020

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Track looks ****ing awful

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Robert Kubica has been offered the second seat at Williams and has also been offered the Ferrari development/simulatior role. Ball is in the Pole's hands

[Guest]

Hamilton pole at Interlagos

Alonso confirmed to drive for McLaren at Indy 500.

[Fernando]

Vettel gets a reprimand & a fine for his weighbridge incident

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

FIA are fast becoming a laughing stock. From the onboard you see Vettel switch off his engine after he's waved off he reboots with the hybrid battery.

Whereas Hamilton nearly crashed into Raikkonen and Sirotkin yet gets away with it.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Sauber could be a prime seat come 2019. They've got the class leading factory spec Ferrari engine. They should be targeting fourth in the WCC

[No name Bertie]

Ferrari should have won this years championships - but it seems a disastrous "upgrade" ultimately put paid to their challenge.  Maybe I'll get to read about it when a book of this seasons championship emerges.  It seems that Honda have made further improvements with their engine - so it looks very promising for Red Bull for next year.

Not sure what Hamilton was doing dawdling on the racing line - which caused the incident with Sirotkin who had already switched onto the slower side.  I thought the weighbridge incident was unfortunate for Vettel - this was during qualifying (??) when conditions were changeable - so could have compromised Vettels qualifying.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Hamilton steals victory in São Paulo after Mercedes junior Ocon crashes into leader Verstappen. No wonder the talentless Ocon isn't on the grid in 2019. Pathetic

[nathan]

Hamilton steals victory in São Paulo after Mercedes junior Ocon crashes into leader Verstappen. No wonder the talentless Ocon isn't on the grid in 2019. Pathetic

where's that tin foil hat?

There's talk of ocon being at Merc in 2020 and no team wanted to give him a 1 year deal.

Max shown he still has a lot of growing up to do, as Hamilton said, why put yourself in that situation. Unless he learns he won't win a championship.

[GSC]

Not entirely sure what Max expected to happen. Unlapping is awkward but he turned across like he expected him to vanish. Didn't watch but saw that highlight

[No name Bertie]

So how did they do it? Red Bull was the dominant car beating the Ferraris and the Mercedes for pace. Hamilton had an "engine failure" towards the end of the race so had to turn the engine power right down (according to Totto Wolff) and managed to finish ahead of Verstappen - but Verstappen had a damaged car. What happened to Bottas? Raikkonen is now third in the drivers championship.

[Guest]

Verstappen found guilty of 'deliberate physical contact' by the stewards and handed a penalty of two days working public service - which could be performing duties for the FIA such as promoting a road safety campaign

Not surprised this happened to Max. With time, he will adjust his gung-ho approach to racing, and understand that in some
situations, a more cautious approach is needed. It’s like Max had some kind of superiority complex, which just couldn’t accept being unlapped by a Force India.

Unfortunately, you can’t defend his post-race actions. He’s still a brat, and this attitude will no doubt cost him a championship down the line, before his phenomenal ability wins him one.

[GSC]

Eh I don't buy this punishment. You want to stick cameras everywhere, to capture everything, don't act outraged when a 20 year old gets angry after he loses a win based on a collision with a lapped car and that is broadcast around the world.

Should Max be shoving Ocon, probably not. Was it mostly Max's fault, yeah. But would any driver do differently?

Also as much as Max was at fault for the collision, Ocon is trying to pull a worldie around the outside of the race leader when he's a lap down. To borrow a phrase from Lewis, "disrespectful" comes to mind

[dyrewolfe]

Verstappen's fault as far as I'm concerned.

Ocon had been given the all-clear by his team to unlap himself if he wanted.

Max knew Esteban was close to him, even if he couldn't see exactly where. Shouldn't have tried to squeeze him off the track. Again, there was loads of room...he didn't have to move right across like that.

Drivers shouldn't just assume people are going to back out...even if they are the race leader. There is far too much entitlement by some drivers, that just because they are driving for a top team, everyone else should just get out of their way. If they are being blue-flagged - fair enough, but otherwise it should be racing as normal.

There was nearly a similar incident when Ricciardo (I think) got past Bottas...Valtteri had to practically stop dead to avoid a collision.

Drivers need to start giving each other a bit more respect...and space. You try a stupid move - expect to reap the consequences.

Think Ocon's punishment was rather harsh. I thought F1 was supposed to be encouraging racing...not basically telling drivers of lesser teams not to mess with the big dogs.

[GSC]

The lack of respect was purely on Ocon. He's not racing Max, he's the race leader, you back out if it looks slightly dicey.

[Marky]

I think the blame is 65-70/30-35 in Ocon's favour, because Max was ahead going into T2, but all Max had to do was take a wider line and have the inside of T3, instead of turning in.

[McLaren]

Two separate questions here.

Should Ocon have tried the move on Max? Probably not.

Did it have to end in an accident? No, if Max had given Ocon room it wouldn't have happened and had this been between two midfielders it is likely the only penalty would have been for Max cutting across Ocon.



Hamilton pretty much summed this up for Max in the green room, and it isn't a surprise that this happened to Max while Lewis has managed to win 72 without it happening. If a lapped car got that close to Lewis you can guarantee he would have left about 3 car widths of room and got straight on the radio afterwards to sort it out. The arrogance of Max has caught up with him again.

[GSC]

Be surprised if Lewis has been subject to an unlapping while leading a grand prix many times...

[McLaren]

GSC

Not sure if he has but he usually gives the back markers a pretty wide berth.

[GSC]

Because usually he's going past them. Something else entirely when a guy who's quicker on brand new tyres is trying a worldie around the outside of the race leader.

As I've say while Verstappen caused the collision, the fault is entirely with Ocon. You don't fight the race leader when you're a lap down. Either breeze past him on the straight or make sure you leave plenty of room. You don't lunge late from behind. It was disrespectful and it was amateur.

[Fernando]

Because usually he's going past them. Something else entirely when a guy who's quicker on brand new tyres is trying a worldie around the outside of the race leader.

As I've say while Verstappen caused the collision, the fault is entirely with Ocon. You don't fight the race leader when you're a lap down. Either breeze past him on the straight or make sure you leave plenty of room. You don't lunge late from behind. It was disrespectful and it was amateur.

But that's what he did It was just unfortunate that RB without DRS or a tow is dogshite in a straight line. Max ducked inside yet still tried to brake really late instead of letting him go despite at one point disappearing from the view of Ocon.

[Guest]

Jos Verstappen taking out Montoya, was the last time in F1 that the leader was taken out by a backmarker

[Marky]

Best one still has to be Schumacher and Coulthard at Spa in the rain

[dyrewolfe]

The lack of respect was purely on Ocon. He's not racing Max, he's the race leader, you back out if it looks slightly dicey.

You could just as easily say there would have been no contact had Max simply left a car's width...and would still have gone on to win the race.

Sometimes all it takes is a bit of common sense...something Max still needs to learn, it seems.

[GSC]

Common sense would dictate Ocon not bother trying to overtake Verstappen with his brief tyre advantage about to expire and likely having to waste further time letting Max back through. All Ocon was doing was wasting time for both.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

The F3 Macau GP was at the weekend, Red Bull junior Daniel Ticktum won the event for the second consecutive year. Mick Schumacher was off the pace all weekend and came fifth.

The event was marred by a horrific accident for German driver Sophia Florsch who's car crashed into the photography bunker after vaulting the guardrail at over 170mph. The German youngster suffered a spinal fracture and 4 people in the grandstand suffered non life threatening injuries. It was a miracle that Florsch wasn't killed or for matter anyone where the car landed. Florsch has subsequently undergone 7 hour surgery and there's no fear of paralysis. Wishing her a quick and full recovery.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Mick Schumacher will partner Sebastian Vettel in the nations cup at the race of champions. Vettel has already won the nations cup with Michael a fair few times, no time better to land another with baby Schumacher...the potential man to replace Vettel at Ferrari

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