Glasgow and Edinburgh 21st Century Banter

by **BigGee** Tue 23 Oct 2018, 9:05 am

First topic message reminder :

Something is going on this year

Both Glasgow and Edinburgh are playing quite well!

Is it a dream, am I imagining it, am I going to wake up in a cold sweat and find out that we are really cr*p again?

Someone please reassure me!!

by **RDW** Wed 05 Dec 2018, 10:13 pm

jimbopip wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Sorry Jimbo had to remove that post - just so you know you've not had another senior moment!

I don't know what makes me happier; being a bad boy ("because I'm bad, I'm bad, so bad") or getting an apology from Admin Boy.

Or using that damned quote function correctly.

Whatever gets you through the day Jimbo! Hug

by **George Carlin** Thu 06 Dec 2018, 8:34 am

Anglobraveheart wrote:As a 52 yo, who has 2 boys, one just in double digits, the other mid teens, I know that becoming a dad in my latter 30's was defo early enough.
I'm clueless now at times, and as for being 22, I couldn't fathom my rear end from my elbow.

Definitely agree with that Anglo.

I have 2 and the first was when I was 35 - can't imagine I would have had anything to actually teach kids until then.

Now, I can teach them how to avoid mummy when she Has Had A Difficult Day. We all hide together.

by **BigGee** Thu 06 Dec 2018, 9:58 am

You might see things differently when you are 55 though.

All my kids are now educated and nominally off the payroll. I am planning on semi retiring next year!

My brother, older than me, but started family later, is still looking at another 5 or 6 years to get them all to my stage, no early retirement for him!

I would add that I was about 30 when I got started and was in no way ready to have kids at 21 either. I suspect that JR did not really plan on becoming one at that age as well. There but for the grace of god go many of us!

by tigertattie Thu 06 Dec 2018, 10:44 am

I'm going to retire early just coz I'm not going to have any kids. It would jsut be mean to pass my genes onto another generation!

The traditional window of having a family is becoming more and more polarised these days. Folk used to have kids around the mid twenties but now they either have them really early (like the folk from Dundee) or they have them later on once they've estabilished a career. Look at thon mad actress who was in the rocky films, she had a kid when she was 52

by Mad for Chelsea Thu 06 Dec 2018, 11:55 am

3 week ban for Alex Allan following his red card against the Scarlets as per Glasgow twitter feed. Was expecting something in that ball park TBH. Means we need Kebble and Bhatti to stay fit for the next few weeks.

by jimbopip Thu 06 Dec 2018, 12:39 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Anglobraveheart wrote:As a 52 yo, who has 2 boys, one just in double digits, the other mid teens, I know that becoming a dad in my latter 30's was defo early enough.
I'm clueless now at times, and as for being 22, I couldn't fathom my rear end from my elbow.
Definitely agree with that Anglo.

I have 2 and the first was when I was 35 - can't imagine I would have had anything to actually teach kids until then.

Now, I can teach them how to avoid mummy when she Has Had A Difficult Day. We all hide together.

What is all this nonsense about families? I thought this was a rugby forum.

p.s. Princess Daughter and Feckless Rogue have just been told that their new build is "slightly behind schedule" and won't be ready before June. They are moving in with us before Chrimbo, baby is due in January Erm

He (Feckless) intends eating us out of house and home. I shall be wrapping the wine rack in barbed wire.
Big Son made a huge performance last week about insisting on repaying the extremely small amount he had "borrowed" from his mother....whilst conveniently forgetting all about the rather large amount he had borrowed previously. steam

Pippetto is too poorly to ransack my wallet at the moment.

As I say, lets stop discussing offspring it only makes me realise I'll always be skint.

by tigertattie Thu 06 Dec 2018, 1:38 pm

jimbopip wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Anglobraveheart wrote:As a 52 yo, who has 2 boys, one just in double digits, the other mid teens, I know that becoming a dad in my latter 30's was defo early enough.
I'm clueless now at times, and as for being 22, I couldn't fathom my rear end from my elbow.
Definitely agree with that Anglo.

I have 2 and the first was when I was 35 - can't imagine I would have had anything to actually teach kids until then.

Now, I can teach them how to avoid mummy when she Has Had A Difficult Day. We all hide together.

What is all this nonsense about families? I thought this was a rugby forum.

p.s. Princess Daughter and Feckless Rogue have just been told that their new build is "slightly behind schedule" and won't be ready before June. They are moving in with us before Chrimbo, baby is due in January He (Feckless) intends eating us out of house and home. I shall be wrapping the wine rack in barbed wire.
Big Son made a huge performance last week about insisting on repaying the extremely small amount he had "borrowed" from his mother....whilst conveniently forgetting all about the rather large amount he had borrowed previously.
Pippetto is too poorly to ransack my wallet at the moment.

As I say, lets stop discussing offspring it only makes me realise I'll always be skint.

just chap up RDW and FES for a sub. Engineers and ~~scam artists~~ lawyers are all minted!

by **RDW** Thu 06 Dec 2018, 1:42 pm

Alas in an industry where everything generally goes to the cheapest bidder, engineering salaries are nowhere near the same league as law and finance!

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Thu 06 Dec 2018, 1:46 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Alas in an industry where everything generally goes to the cheapest bidder, engineering salaries are nowhere near the same league as law and finance!

And he lives in London so he's probably having to live in a 15 bed shared house to be able to keep up his previous foie gras and caviar Edinburgh lifestyle

by **RDW** Thu 06 Dec 2018, 1:49 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Alas in an industry where everything generally goes to the cheapest bidder, engineering salaries are nowhere near the same league as law and finance!

And he lives in London so he's probably having to live in a 15 bed shared house to be able to keep up his previous foie gras and caviar Edinburgh lifestyle

1 bed flat mate, I just pay in rent 3 times what my mortgage was in Edinburgh!

As an aside was it you that I was talking with about the Dark Tower books during the Scotland Summer tour thread?

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Thu 06 Dec 2018, 1:54 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:1 bed flat mate, I just pay in rent 3 times what my mortgage was in Edinburgh!

As an aside was it you that I was talking with about the Dark Tower books during the Scotland Summer tour thread?

It wasn't, I remember that but can't remember who else was involved.

Fun unrelated fact - I've been in India since the weekend so I'm having no issues with being able to afford to eat well. I haven't been able to see the sky since I got here due to the smog though Erm

by Eejit Thu 06 Dec 2018, 3:48 pm

I wasn’t involved but always more than happy to get involved in any and all Dark Tower chat provided we’re talking about the books and not the aberration of a movie with the bloke from the Sky adverts.

by **RDW** Thu 06 Dec 2018, 4:09 pm

Well I'm about 50 pages from the end of the last book (no spoilers!). Oy's just had his run in with the spider (I was more gutted about that than any of the other deaths!)

I haven't seen the film and have no desire to - not entirely sure how they can fit 7 books into 1.5 hours!

by **BigGee** Thu 06 Dec 2018, 10:18 pm

Ali Hogg's take on the Gary Graham affair and his feelings about being overlooked for Scotland for such a long time, in interview with Jamie Lyall on BBC Website.

Gary Graham was "used as a bit of a guinea pig" by England head coach Eddie Jones, says his former Newcastle Falcons team-mate Ally Hogg.

Jones selected Graham, who will face Edinburgh at Murrayfield on Friday, in squads last season but did not cap him.

After English interest cooled, Graham was called up in November by Gregor Townsend, who said the 26-year-old "wanted to commit" to Scotland.

"Eddie Jones was trying make a point a little bit," Hogg told BBC Scotland.

"He used him as a bit of a guinea pig, which wasn't fair on Gary. He'd only played a few games for Newcastle when he was called up."

Graham, 26, is the son of former Newcastle and Scotland prop George Graham but qualified for England through residency.

Scottish Rugby has intensified its search for talent south of the border and former Scotland back-row Hogg, who retired last season, suspects Jones aimed to "ruffle a few feathers" with Graham's inclusion.

"Knowing what Eddie Jones is like, it was probably more of a warning shot to Gregor that he's taken a few English players and he might do vice versa," he added.

Edinburgh recall internationals; Newcastle change 13

Scotland call up England-qualified Graham

Hardie capture 'a big coup' for Falcons'

Hogg revealed John Hardie has impressed Falcons players after joining the club in October, although he is not registered for the trip to former club Edinburgh in Friday's European Champions Cup match.

The Scotland flanker was released in the summer having served a three-month suspension for "gross misconduct" over alleged cocaine use earlier in the season.

"If he didn't have his misdemeanours, he'd probably still be at Edinburgh. It's a big coup for Newcastle. And I imagine he would have gone quite cheaply as well because he didn't really have another club," Hogg added.

"He's come in and put his head down. He's got a point to prove, not only to the team but to himself and to the wider rugby public that he is a good player and still has a lot to offer."

John Hardie of Newcastle Falcons makes a tackle

Hardie, in action here against Harlequins, made 18 tackles and missed none in Newcastle's win over Northampton

'You're picking guys that have never been to Scotland'

Hogg, 35, split his 16-year professional career between Edinburgh and Newcastle, retiring after helping the Falcons to the Premiership semi-finals at the end of last term.

He won the last of his 47 caps in 2009 and believes he was overlooked by successive Scotland coaches in part because of a bias towards overseas players.

New Zealand-born Blair Cowan, Hugh Blake and Hardie, Wales-born Kieran Low and South African Tyrone Holmes all played Tests during his international exile.

"I was Andy Robinson's captain for two years at Edinburgh. He got the Scotland job and my face didn't fit his philosophy. You look at it and you think, 'you're picking a couple of guys that have never been to Scotland - what have they got over me?'" Hogg said.

"That was the downfall of Scottish rugby a little bit in the past. Foreign guys were deemed to be better than what we had.

"We've got a lot of talent and to be fair to Gregor, he's been rewarding those guys, and others like Sam Skinner who has played really well for Exeter Chiefs. It's always more frustrating when it happens to you but you do get a bit miffed when you're not getting picked and guys are getting parachuted in."

by Tramptastic Thu 06 Dec 2018, 10:58 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Alas in an industry where everything generally goes to the cheapest bidder, engineering salaries are nowhere near the same league as law and finance!

And he lives in London so he's probably having to live in a 15 bed shared house to be able to keep up his previous foie gras and caviar Edinburgh lifestyle

1 bed flat mate, I just pay in rent 3 times what my mortgage was in Edinburgh!

As an aside was it you that I was talking with about the Dark Tower books during the Scotland Summer tour thread?

It was me!

50 pages from the end? My heart breaks. Good luck.

Just looking at Ali Hoggs interview, 2 things of note:

1) he really was binned by Robinson! Never got a look in!

2) whatever happened to Kieran Low (beyond being vaguely useless)?

by **RDW** Fri 07 Dec 2018, 8:45 am

Can't believe it was 2009 that Hogg was last capped (he would have been 26!). When you look at the players that were picked ahead of him none other than Hardie have lasted in terms of international selection. Hugh Blake and Tyrone Holmes??

by tigertattie Fri 07 Dec 2018, 9:57 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Can't believe it was 2009 that Hogg was last capped (he would have been 26!). When you look at the players that were picked ahead of him none other than Hardie have lasted in terms of international selection. Hugh Blake and Tyrone Holmes??

I've always been an advocate for Hogg, a great player who was sorely overlooked far too much.

You've got to say that it is utterly bewildering when he was Robinson's captain at Edinburgh that Robbo then didnt select him at 8 for Scotland. Especially when you look at some of the dross that were selected over him.

You can read in Hogg's comments that he understands that you dont always get picked, but he fell out of favour for not playing his rugby in Scotland??? Yet randoms were flown in from overseas to play.

You never seen the whole story, but surely something else happened that resulted in him not being capped again!

by **BigGee** Sun 09 Dec 2018, 10:57 am

The success of the coaches up in Scotland does not appear to have gone un-noticed though.

Cockers is apparently on the RFU radar to take over from EJ and Humphries is being lined up to become the new Wales forward coach with Wayne Pivac.

I am not so sure about Cockers for that job, especially at this stage in his career, he could be just to much of a loose cannon for them. Thing is though, if Rob Baxter does not want to do it, there is not really any other outstanding candidate, assuming they want an English coach. Dean Richards has also been mentioned though the stain of bloodgate still lingers and might exclude him still.

Humphries to Wales does seem a lot more likely though, he is doing really well with the Glasgow pack and may well fancy a move back home. That would not be a disaster for us though and maybe an internal promotion. someone like John Dalziel, might fill the gap. Scott Riddell seems to be being groomed to take over the sevens coaching at some stage in the future.

by Welly Sun 09 Dec 2018, 11:31 am

I doubt Cockers would take it but who knows.

He hated the off field management at Tigers I doubt England is anything better?

by bsando Sun 09 Dec 2018, 12:08 pm

I hadn't even considered Cockerill as a candidate but I suppose he would be a good option for England. He has an impressive cv and Edinburgh are starting to compete very well in the Pro 14 and now Europe as well. I mean Edinburgh topping their pool after 3 rounds with Toulon sitting bottom? Pretty incredible. Still a lot of rugby to be played though.

by **RDW** Sun 09 Dec 2018, 5:19 pm

So remember when Finn to Racing move was announced and we said it would be good as he'd need to learn how to control a game properly as he'd have to play a more structured game?

Yeah that's not happening - if anything his mad as a box of frogs nature is getting worse! Racing are playing like the Harlem Globetrotters this season and Finn is right at the centre of it. He's got some great assists this season and has shown some great skills. There's not a lot of game control or tactical kicking on show!

by Tramptastic Sun 09 Dec 2018, 7:17 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:So remember when Finn to Racing move was announced and we said it would be good as he'd need to learn how to control a game properly as he'd have to play a more structured game?

Yeah that's not happening - if anything his mad as a box of frogs nature is getting worse! Racing are playing like the Harlem Globetrotters this season and Finn is right at the centre of it. He's got some great assists this season and has shown some great skills. There's not a lot of game control or tactical kicking on show!

His combination with Zebo in particular has been awesome to watch! those two are just constantly on each others shoulders running excellent lines

by TJ Sun 09 Dec 2018, 10:31 pm

I very much doubt Cockers would take the England job. I think he is enjoying what is for him " grass roots" coaching and he has unfinished business here.

by Eejit Sun 09 Dec 2018, 11:44 pm

At the risk of saying something positive about the perfumed quinoa-munchers, Edinburgh are starting to show the roots of a halfway competent side (that the SRU can populate with the chaps that can’t quite cut it at the A club) and a great deal of that is to do with the changes made by Cockers and his team.

I can’t see him taking the England job either as if he shows even half the loyalty to Edinburgh that he did at Leicester then it can only be a good thing for the prawn sandwich brigade at Scotland’s lesser club.

by jimbopip Mon 10 Dec 2018, 9:38 am

Ah Eejit, you make some very good points here about Cockers and the effect he is having on the Perfumed Ones. Al that walking to the training pitches must be improving their cardiovascular fitness.

I especially love your choice of, utterly disdainful, language. Chappeau sir. Hug

by **RDW** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 9:40 am

Eejit wrote:At the risk of saying something positive about the perfumed quinoa-munchers, Edinburgh are starting to show the roots of a halfway competent side (that the SRU can populate with the chaps that can’t quite cut it at the A club) and a great deal of that is to do with the changes made by Cockers and his team.

I can’t see him taking the England job either as if he shows even half the loyalty to Edinburgh that he did at Leicester then it can only be a good thing for the prawn sandwich brigade at Scotland’s ~~lesser club~~ soon to be crowned 1872 champions.

Fixed that for you - you know it to be true Very Happy

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 11:45 am

Have to say, cracking games at the weekend and great from a Scotland perspective.

I really think we should be looking at Dean at centre, especially given our steadily dwindling options there, he could prove a useful squad player. I think he made a great account for himself on Friday and is a solid option at 12, especially in a backline that was lacking a bit of zip, is Hickey injured or was he on the bench? I can't remember but he seems to do better with the cards dealt.

After this weekend I'd be tempted to say start with Horne and Laidlaw to come on to take more control. He was so smart for Glasgow on Saturday, and really is a special player. Pleased to see Seymour steadily returning to form as well.

Edinburgh ideally will have to win on the road which, given their away form, is a tough ask. I'd actually say Glasgow potentially look to be in a better position. This being said they have potential champs Sarries away from home in January so it's still tough, despite having the dead rubber against Lyon at home. Either that or Cardiff have to pull the game of their lives out of their a*ses next week which hardly seems likely.

Weegie/Edinburgh fans, what would your teams be for the next fixtures?

by **RDW** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 11:54 am

Good post Nelly.

I really like Dean at 12 - he runs fantastic lines and generally always gets over the gainline, and has a good nose for the try line. It's good to see him seemingly not having the injury worries that a few seasons ago meant he could only play a few game in a row.

If he did get capped I don't think he'd let anyone down, but I also don't think he's demanding selection yet. He's not consistent enough over the 80 and seems to float in and out of games, but I think a lot of that is to do with our tactics meaning our centres aren't used very much. I'd love to see what he could do in that Glasgow backline (hands off though!).

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 11:57 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Eejit wrote:At the risk of saying something positive about the perfumed quinoa-munchers, Edinburgh are starting to show the roots of a halfway competent side (that the SRU can populate with the chaps that can’t quite cut it at the A club) and a great deal of that is to do with the changes made by Cockers and his team.

I can’t see him taking the England job either as if he shows even half the loyalty to Edinburgh that he did at Leicester then it can only be a good thing for the prawn sandwich brigade at Scotland’s ~~lesser club~~ soon to be crowned 1872 champions.

Fixed that for you - you know it to be true

I reckon DR may be in the frame, he certainly was for Wales. If Glasgow reach the euro qs/semis and have a pro14 final under him then I wouldn't be surprised if he left next season.

by EWT Spoons Mon 10 Dec 2018, 12:13 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good post Nelly.

If he did get capped I don't think he'd let anyone down, but I also don't think he's demanding selection yet. He's not consistent enough over the 80 and seems to float in and out of games, but I think a lot of that is to do with our tactics meaning our centres aren't used very much. I'd love to see what he could do in that Glasgow backline (hands off though!).

I think the main issues preventing Dean getting capped is the form of Glasgow centres and the tactics Edinburgh play.

Glasgow centres are involved in attacking rugby so their centres see a lot of the ball and run some great lines. Edinburgh play a forward orientated game, and as such our backs don't see as much ball in an attacking sense.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 12:19 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Good post Nelly.

If he did get capped I don't think he'd let anyone down, but I also don't think he's demanding selection yet. He's not consistent enough over the 80 and seems to float in and out of games, but I think a lot of that is to do with our tactics meaning our centres aren't used very much. I'd love to see what he could do in that Glasgow backline (hands off though!).

I think the main issues preventing Dean getting capped is the form of Glasgow centres and the tactics Edinburgh play.

Glasgow centres are involved in attacking rugby so their centres see a lot of the ball and run some great lines. Edinburgh play a forward orientated game, and as such our backs don't see as much ball in an attacking sense.

I would argue though that to look good in that kind of set up is an achievement in itself. I think given the opportunity he could do very well in the Scotland set-up. He seems to have a good rugby brain and has a good turn of pace. He's certainly no worse than Harris, so why not?

by tigertattie Mon 10 Dec 2018, 1:18 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Good post Nelly.

If he did get capped I don't think he'd let anyone down, but I also don't think he's demanding selection yet. He's not consistent enough over the 80 and seems to float in and out of games, but I think a lot of that is to do with our tactics meaning our centres aren't used very much. I'd love to see what he could do in that Glasgow backline (hands off though!).

I think the main issues preventing Dean getting capped is the form of Glasgow centres and the tactics Edinburgh play.

Glasgow centres are involved in attacking rugby so their centres see a lot of the ball and run some great lines. Edinburgh play a forward orientated game, and as such our backs don't see as much ball in an attacking sense.

I would argue though that to look good in that kind of set up is an achievement in itself. I think given the opportunity he could do very well in the Scotland set-up. He seems to have a good rugby brain and has a good turn of pace. He's certainly no worse than Harris, so why not?

Think folk are getting a bit confused here and the comments are a bit, well, Ayr world beating esque.

1. Dean is a 12 so the Harris comparision isnt fair.
2. Dean has a good rugby brain and decent turn of pace. You know who else they say that of? Pete Horne - And we know how inconsistent he is (at best, or gash overall to be honest) in an international shirt.

Dean isnt even proven at Pro 14 level, let alone international. He's not really in the frame for a scotland call up yet.

Matt Scott (12) should really walk into the 6Ns team with one arm tied behind his back. It's going to come down to the 1872 cup games aka the scotland trials. If Scott has a stormer then there really cant be any reason for Toonie not to select him and given he's played plenty international rugby in the past, he should slot in absolutely fine.

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Mon 10 Dec 2018, 1:47 pm

tigertattie wrote:Dean isnt even proven at Pro 14 level, let alone international. He's not really in the frame for a scotland call up yet.

Just to play devil's advocate a bit here; was Harris' domestic form really demanding international inclusion? Or was it a case of let's try him out and see if he cuts it at that level? He's now been given quite a few opportunities and only lately has he shown any signs that he may be ~~crawling~~ slowly growing into international rugby. So you could argue, is Chris Dean really in such a different position to that?

by **RDW** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 1:59 pm

I think you're the one getting confused tattie - Dean has been a pro for 4 years, has 73 caps for Edinburgh and has played in the Champions Cup, Challenge Cup knock out games and in the Pro 14 run in last season including the QF against Munster - in what way is he 'not proven'??

Hastings had a handful of pro appearances before his Pro debut!

I'm not saying he should be played in the 6N by the way, but I do think he would have earned it if he is called up (which I don't think he will be).

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 2:15 pm

tigertattie wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Good post Nelly.

If he did get capped I don't think he'd let anyone down, but I also don't think he's demanding selection yet. He's not consistent enough over the 80 and seems to float in and out of games, but I think a lot of that is to do with our tactics meaning our centres aren't used very much. I'd love to see what he could do in that Glasgow backline (hands off though!).

I think the main issues preventing Dean getting capped is the form of Glasgow centres and the tactics Edinburgh play.

Glasgow centres are involved in attacking rugby so their centres see a lot of the ball and run some great lines. Edinburgh play a forward orientated game, and as such our backs don't see as much ball in an attacking sense.

I would argue though that to look good in that kind of set up is an achievement in itself. I think given the opportunity he could do very well in the Scotland set-up. He seems to have a good rugby brain and has a good turn of pace. He's certainly no worse than Harris, so why not?

Think folk are getting a bit confused here and the comments are a bit, well, Ayr world beating esque.

1. Dean is a 12 so the Harris comparision isnt fair.
2. Dean has a good rugby brain and decent turn of pace. You know who else they say that of? Pete Horne - And we know how inconsistent he is (at best, or gash overall to be honest) in an international shirt.

Dean isnt even proven at Pro 14 level, let alone international. He's not really in the frame for a scotland call up yet.

Matt Scott (12) should really walk into the 6Ns team with one arm tied behind his back. It's going to come down to the 1872 cup games aka the scotland trials. If Scott has a stormer then there really cant be any reason for Toonie not to select him and given he's played plenty international rugby in the past, he should slot in absolutely fine.

100% I'd pick Scott ahead of Dean, but Scott is currently injured, and with Dunbar getting injured is a hobby. Not suggesting Dean is by any means world class but I think he's had a good season and probably deserves the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure we'd all agree if Bennett was fit and firing that Harris wouldn't be in the matchday 23 but is becoming a reasonable squad player.

Pete Horne can be flaky as anything but from the bench provides good cover and has generally played fairly consistently in a Scotland shirt, we just remember his ballsups more because he's not as naturally talented as Finn et al.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 2:19 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Good post Nelly.

If he did get capped I don't think he'd let anyone down, but I also don't think he's demanding selection yet. He's not consistent enough over the 80 and seems to float in and out of games, but I think a lot of that is to do with our tactics meaning our centres aren't used very much. I'd love to see what he could do in that Glasgow backline (hands off though!).

I think the main issues preventing Dean getting capped is the form of Glasgow centres and the tactics Edinburgh play.

Glasgow centres are involved in attacking rugby so their centres see a lot of the ball and run some great lines. Edinburgh play a forward orientated game, and as such our backs don't see as much ball in an attacking sense.

I would argue though that to look good in that kind of set up is an achievement in itself. I think given the opportunity he could do very well in the Scotland set-up. He seems to have a good rugby brain and has a good turn of pace. He's certainly no worse than Harris, so why not?

Think folk are getting a bit confused here and the comments are a bit, well, Ayr world beating esque.

1. Dean is a 12 so the Harris comparision isnt fair.
2. Dean has a good rugby brain and decent turn of pace. You know who else they say that of? Pete Horne - And we know how inconsistent he is (at best, or gash overall to be honest) in an international shirt.

Dean isnt even proven at Pro 14 level, let alone international. He's not really in the frame for a scotland call up yet.

Matt Scott (12) should really walk into the 6Ns team with one arm tied behind his back. It's going to come down to the 1872 cup games aka the scotland trials. If Scott has a stormer then there really cant be any reason for Toonie not to select him and given he's played plenty international rugby in the past, he should slot in absolutely fine.

100% I'd pick Scott ahead of Dean, but Scott is currently injured, and with Dunbar getting injured is a hobby. Not suggesting Dean is by any means world class but I think he's had a good season and probably deserves the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure we'd all agree if Bennett was fit and firing that Harris wouldn't be in the matchday 23 but is becoming a reasonable squad player.

Pete Horne is flaky as anything but from the bench provides good cover and has generally played fairly consistently in a Scotland shirt, we just remember his ballsups more because he's not as naturally talented as Finn et al.

**NB I haven't even mentioned Sam Johnson, who also deserves a go but again, our injury curse at 12 continues...

by tigertattie Mon 10 Dec 2018, 2:30 pm

Glasgow and Edinburgh 21st Century Banter - Page 5 1347041234

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think you're the one getting confused tattie - Dean has been a pro for 4 years, has 73 caps for Edinburgh and has played in the Champions Cup, Challenge Cup knock out games and in the Pro 14 run in last season including the QF against Munster - in what way is he 'not proven'??

Hastings had a handful of pro appearances before his Pro debut!

I'm not saying he should be played in the 6N by the way, but I do think he would have earned it if he is called up (which I don't think he will be).

How very dare you sir!!!

My issue with Dean is that for 2 years at least, he was proper knickers. Mind you he was playing with some utter mince at times. Ahhhh Strauss, where are you now???

Yes Dean has come on this year but is he really international class?

Sure he’s worth looking at but I’d say he’s pretty far down the list and really is behind Matt Scott (12) who’d be the first Edinburgh centre along with Bennett that I’d be looking to bring back in the 6ns

Ps, will Bennett be better by then? I can’t remember

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 2:32 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I think you're the one getting confused tattie - Dean has been a pro for 4 years, has 73 caps for Edinburgh and has played in the Champions Cup, Challenge Cup knock out games and in the Pro 14 run in last season including the QF against Munster - in what way is he 'not proven'??

Hastings had a handful of pro appearances before his Pro debut!

I'm not saying he should be played in the 6N by the way, but I do think he would have earned it if he is called up (which I don't think he will be).

How very dare you sir!!!

My issue with Dean is that for 2 years at least, he was proper knickers. Mind you he was playing with some utter mince at times. Ahhhh Strauss, where are you now???

Yes Dean has come on this year but is he really international class?

Sure he’s worth looking at but I’d say he’s pretty far down the list and really is behind Matt Scott (12) who’d be the first Edinburgh centre along with Bennett that I’d be looking to bring back in the 6ns

Ps, will Bennett be better by then? I can’t remember

Wasn't it mid-Feb he was due to be back? I just remember it being a tight turnaround until the world cup. Last bit of news on Bennett was he was opening an Aldi store in Johnstone. Peak of any players career

by **RDW** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 2:35 pm

I can never remember Dean being 'absolutely knickers'. He showed a lot of early promise but kept being held back by injury. He's never been a player prone to big mistakes or brainfarts. the last 2 seasons he has had a lot of gametime with Edinburgh and has done well.

Are we talking about the same player??

by Eejit Mon 10 Dec 2018, 3:00 pm

According to the Rugby Pass Index it says that Dean is the 6th best centre playing for Glasgow or Edinburgh on form. Granted it doesn't mean anything really, but it certainly shows how far he's come - https://index.rugbypass.com/rpi/all/edinburgh+glasgow+scotland/inside-centre+outside-centre/7-days/high-to-low/players/

Pete Horne makes the RPI first XV as the best inside centre in the world at the moment! Shocked

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 3:07 pm

Eejit wrote:According to the Rugby Pass Index it says that Dean is the 6th best centre playing for Glasgow or Edinburgh on form. Granted it doesn't mean anything really, but it certainly shows how far he's come - https://index.rugbypass.com/rpi/all/edinburgh+glasgow+scotland/inside-centre+outside-centre/7-days/high-to-low/players/

Pete Horne makes the RPI first XV as the best inside centre in the world at the moment!

Stafford is doing well, new angel

?

by jimbopip Mon 10 Dec 2018, 4:06 pm

Chris Dean IS in line for a Scotand call up. No, really.

Right behind the No1 in the world (according to RPI; final proof that you can prove anything with statistics)...P Horne

Right behind the barrel chested, street brawling, lineout catching, turnover winner that is...A Dunbar

Right behind the centre who combines the distribution skills of Horne with the physicality of Dunbar.... S Johnson

Right behind the academy graduate who is having the same impact in the backs as the young(er) Jonny Gray had in the forwards...S McDowall.

Right behind the man who can have the 12 jersey (or any other) whenever he decides he wants it...Richie V.

If he was at Scotstoun Dean would be just behind Paddy Kelly in the pecking order. And by "just behind" I mean in the same way Eddie Jones is "just behind" Mahatma Ghandi in the peace and reconciliation stakes.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 4:10 pm

jimbopip wrote:Chris Dean IS in line for a Scotand call up. No, really.

Right behind the No1 in the world (according to RPI; final proof that you can prove anything with statistics)...P Horne

Right behind the barrel chested, street brawling, lineout catching, turnover winner that is...A Dunbar

Right behind the centre who combines the distribution skills of Horne with the physicality of Dunbar.... S Johnson

Right behind the academy graduate who is having the same impact in the backs as the young(er) Jonny Gray had in the forwards...S McDowall.

Right behind the man who can have the 12 jersey (or any other) whenever he decides he wants it...Richie V.

If he was at Scotstoun Dean would be just behind Paddy Kelly in the pecking order. And by "just behind" I mean in the same way Eddie Jones is "just behind" Mahatma Ghandi in the peace and reconciliation stakes.

... I laugh but it's true, I hear he's stocking up the pork pies to compete for loosehead

by **RDW** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 4:17 pm

jimbopip wrote:Chris Dean IS in line for a Scotand call up. No, really.

Right behind the No1 in the world (according to RPI; final proof that you can prove anything with statistics)...P Horne

Right behind the barrel chested, street brawling, lineout catching, turnover winner that is...A Dunbar Always injured, 5 choice in Glasgow (as you previously posted)

Right behind the centre who combines the distribution skills of Horne with the physicality of Dunbar.... S Johnson Currently injured

Right behind the academy graduate who is having the same impact in the backs as the young(er) Jonny Gray had in the forwards...S McDowall. Not deemed Champions cup ready yet

Right behind the man who can have the 12 jersey (or any other) whenever he decides he wants it...Richie V. Ok I'll give you this one!

If he was at Scotstoun Dean would be just behind Paddy Kelly in the pecking order. And by "just behind" I mean in the same way Eddie Jones is "just behind" Mahatma Ghandi in the peace and reconciliation stakes.

by IanBru Mon 10 Dec 2018, 4:24 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:Stafford is doing well, new ?

Ah, now that takes me back. I think the Messiah moniker was so apt because:

He was a really good prospect
He was already better than the current crop of Scotland centres in Dewey, De Luca, Morrison, Henderson et al
He appeared all too briefly before disappearing (admittedly to Clermont)
His return had been anticipated by a group of believers who had never given up the faith in salvation (or at least the occasional line break).

Yes, there has only been one angel

.

by jimbopip Mon 10 Dec 2018, 4:27 pm

Dunbar played for Ayr at the weekend: recognition of his World Class status. Would C dean get into the Ayr side?

Johnson is all but fit, and will be playing again come January. So he should debut in the 6 Nations. So unless there are internationals scheduled before then (that only you and Toonie know about) then he is still ahead of Dean in the reckoning.

The ERCC squad was named before young McDowall made his debut and stunned us all.

Yes, His Richieness plays where he wants, still.

by jimbopip Mon 10 Dec 2018, 4:28 pm

IanBru wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:Stafford is doing well, new ?
Ah, now that takes me back. I think the Messiah moniker was so apt because:

He was a really good prospect
He was already better than the current crop of Scotland centres in Dewey, De Luca, Morrison, Henderson et al
He appeared all too briefly before disappearing (admittedly to Clermont)
His return had been anticipated by a group of believers who had never given up the faith in salvation (or at least the occasional line break).

Yes, there has only been one .

I'm beginning to think he was more a Bennett the Baptist. Here to prepare us for the arrival of the true angel

by **RDW** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 4:34 pm

Again worth reiterating before Jimbo gets too excited that I'm not expecting Dean to be in the 6N squad. My point being if he is it won't be a gimme cap - he's certainly done his time at Edinburgh and played well.

McDowell is for next world cup, not this one.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 4:43 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Again worth reiterating before Jimbo gets too excited that I'm not expecting Dean to be in the 6N squad. My point being if he is it won't be a gimme cap - he's certainly done his time at Edinburgh and played well.

McDowell is for next world cup, not this one.

To be honest I think Dean will be Scotland's Sonny Jim Wullie I was just holding back my enthusiasm on my first posts.

Obviously it's difficult to eclipse Richie V but he'll get there.

Now how about Weir for a world-class squad call up? Benching against England 6N 2019 for drop-goal glory at Twickers?

by **BigGee** Mon 10 Dec 2018, 4:48 pm

Glasgow signing coming up!

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