Ulster Rugby 2018-19

First topic message reminder :

https://www.606v2.com/t68145-ulster-rugby-2017-2018-part-2


Last thread was at risk of self combusting, so started a new one for you. 


Bye.

Great game with huge intensity - bad luck for Ulster and Stockdale must be kicking himself for not grounding the ball for a try after he'd done the hard work to nearly finish it. Both Munster and Leinster were run very close today.

Haven’t seen it as close up as those on tv perhaps but I think if that’s at ravenhill he gives the Stockdale score. Still should have made sure but in terms of defence and under the high ball that’s as good as I’ve seen Stockdale. Fair result which could have gone either way but shows where we can go with a bit more consistency and depth. Worry for Leinster without leavy but hopefully sexton can come back at full tilt for the Semi.

Only just caught up. Fair play to those of you who are being gracious, and those who are happy to fall back on the ‘sure we are in early stages of rebuild’ narrative and playing it down...
am I alone in finding the outcome sickening and hard to stomach? I mean a Stockdale grounding and Cooney not missing a fairly straight forward kick and we would have won n the game by what 4/6points.
In fact, Leinster wouldn’t have kicked that last penalty for goal had they been chasing a try deficit, so who knows.
Stockdales amazing burst down that wing and Marshall’s fairytale try were exactly the right script for a story that could have been epic of ‘99 standards.

I’ve only finished watching, so maybe need to let myself calm down still... but right now, my mood would be best described as foul.

No complaints, as I know all teams do it, but Ruddocks break for Byrnes try was helped by the Leinster counter ruck player then held onto Timony and allowed the space.

Just hearing BOD saying Stockdale not grounding was unforgivable. Doesn’t mince his words eh?

clivemcl wrote:

Just hearing BOD saying Stockdale not grounding was unforgivable. Doesn’t mince his words eh?

Unforgiveable ??- mister bloody perfect. BOD is and always has been a sanctimonious prick - he can stick his opinions where the sun doesn't shine

I really, really don't like the bumhole

marty2086 wrote:For all the praise Ulster deserve, am I the only one that thinks that Ulster still weren't at their best?

Probably that was an awesome performance with the team we put out

Had the pleasure of sharing some time with Chris Henry and Bryn Young over the weekend .

Chris as always was the perfect gent and was quite clear in stating that was the kind if game that makes a team
I agree

"I mean a Stockdale grounding and Cooney not missing a fairly straight forward kick and we would have won n the game by what 4/6points"
If Stockdale had grounded the ball instead of a 5m scrum to Leinster we'd have been recieving a restart kick and everything from that point onwards would have been completely different. We therefore cannot say that if he'd been awarded the try we'd have won.
That's how I console myself on these occasions.
BOD is a hateful twunt, loved his work on the pitch, despise everything else about him.

Having missed this game, I was reading a pile of press about Stockdale. The impression I got was he was showboating, yet the video clip I just saw shows something very different.

Did he have to ground the ball one handed? Well he needed the other arm to fend the defender, and while he could have carried it tucked under the arm, he is allowing for being tackled into touch and having to ground while in the air.

Unfortunate error maybe, but calling it unforgivable is a trolling soundbite.

It’s a mistake for sure, he could have dived. For me, it’s a sign of a young man abounding in confidence. He doesn’t slide in because he’s wondering if he can get closer to the posts after beating last defenders.

I simply will not blame him though. Easily the most dangerous player we have. Young still too. I’d rather we had a team of players who are looking to score as close to posts as possible and have that self belief than guys sliding over the line as quick as possible as if they are worried something will go wrong. Loved the self belief the Ulster boys showed.

Fair play to Cave too. On that performance I’d say sign him another year. Can’t brlueve how well we did with Lowry and Ballacounev and no Ludik/Addison.

geoff999rugby wrote:Had the pleasure of sharing some time with Chris Henry and Bryn Young over the weekend .

Chris as always was the perfect gent and was quite clear in stating that was the kind if game that makes a team
I agree  

Maybe that game is the kind of heroic failure that will turn this squad into a team (a la Munster), but on the other hand they have already looked like a team all season. McFarland has exceeded expectations in his unification of existing players and integration of the new ones despite having a very limited squad. Rather than that performance making a 'team' it is far more character defining for individuals.

All the press and the pundits will undoubtedly focus on Stockdale's shocker, and that will be a moment he will remember for the rest of his life. The question for him is how he learns from it. He could hopefully become an even better player for the experience and it will give him a different perspective reading negative stuff in the press for once.
Cooney too will rue the missed conversion at such a crucial point in the game, but then there is no time that is not a crucial point in such a knife-edge game. Ross Byrne already looked to have forgotten his kicking bottle but when Cooney missed, some of the pressure went off him. Both of them will have experienced what Sexton has to cope with on a regular basis.
Ringrose for the first time in his career looked flustered, and if Cave retires he can look on that game with pride.
O'Sullivan knows he can survive the most intense pressure and Furlong knows once again he can inflict it.

After such a fierce encounter, Ulster will be hurting physically and mentally. From a League perspective the other results couldn't have gone any worse, so if Ulster don't qualify for those playoffs it will be no surprise. However McFarland is refining this team through fire so he might have one or two surprises still up his sleeve. If not, as you say Geoff, it might not be a bad thing for Ulster to have a rattle at the Challenge Cup next season.

geoff999rugby wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

Just hearing BOD saying Stockdale not grounding was unforgivable. Doesn’t mince his words eh?

Unforgiveable ??- mister bloody perfect. BOD is and always has been a sanctimonious prick - he can stick his opinions where the sun doesn't shine

I really, really don't like the bumhole

It is unforgiveable, really. It looked like he flashed a smile/sideways glance just before deciding to dot down. A bit like the Italy player in the final game v France - don't celebrate before you've scored. Eventually, you'll be the one who ends up on a blooper reel video of botched tries.

One thing to come out of this: Stockdale will never do this again. At least, not out of complacency. Lesson learnt the hard way.

It was clear in real time he'd knocked it on. Watching on TV, from the camera angle behind the dead ball line, I thought he'd fumbled it. It was about as 'clear' as it could be in such a close situation: the bounce/flight of the ball after hitting the ground, the lack of pressure etc. Watching the replays so slowly can sometimes give an impression of control that isn't there. In the last few years they've moved away from minimal contact/a fingertip, to a more 'fair'/real way of awarding a try: which is based on control and pressure again.

Think it was a good call be the touch judge as well. He saw it live and called for the check straight away.

Ulster were fantastic though, deserved to win the game I thought. Just Leinster's class told in the final 10 minutes; it definitely looked like a mental switch, as if Leinster's belief and Ulster's lack of it played a bigger part than ability of game management. The last 3-4 minutes almost felt like a formality.

Ultimately, though, it was the difference between two cramp-ridden kickers that decided it - Ulster missed, Leinster scored.

To clarify what Chris Henry meant was that was the type of performance that takes a team to the next level.

They will believe in themselves just a little bit more
Here is my first XV for next year

McGrath, Best/Herring, Moore, Treadwell, Carter, Henderson, Coetzee, Murphy
Cooney, Burns, Stockdale, McCloskey, Marshall, Faddes, Addison

That is a serious outfit - still not 100% certain what Rory will do
That would be a top draw backrow

Anybody no more about this tweet from Leinster?

“Leinster Rugby is aware of an isolated incident during yesterday’s game which was dealt with at the time by stewards and by Gardaí. There is no place in sport or in our society for any form of physical or verbal abuse. #LEIvULS”

No place in sport for any form of verbal abuse?

Ahh...so endeth the rich tradition of GAA slander, vitriol and regular torrents of verbal abuse between villages only two or three miles apart from each other. Leinster Rugby will kill all sport on this great but foul mouthed little island if they insist on that segment of their little f**king PC note.

Billy Burns has established himself as the first choice 10? If so pleased for the lad. He has a lot of talent and could still kick on.

Having seen the way we can play, I'd be horrified if we were in the Challenge Cup next season. I know it was both an interpro and a European game, but I don't think any other Pro14 team could have lived with us.

We should be looking towards a semifinal in the league, not accepting we might not make it in next season. Marshall's back, Addison may get back, Hendo's getting back up to speed, our lineout and scrum are better than they have been in three years, we don't fluff restarts in ridiculous manners any more. the

The confidence the players will have taken from that will be immense. It's the first knock-out rugby for the majority of those players. Literally the majority of that team. Lowry is 20, Balacoune is 21 and Stockdale is 22, and they were the better back three. O'Sullivan, Treadwell and (I think) Timoney all 23. Burns is 24. We had three players in their thirties - Best, Cave and Herbst. Leinster had Healy, Cronin, Fardy, O'Brien, and the Kearneys (Dave will be thirty in June). This is the start of a long road for Ulster, but we're out of the blocks in quite a burst.

Unforgiveable is a strong (and wrong) word but its a basic error. Stockdale has more than enough credit in the bank. Watching McFarlands after game interview I thought he got it spot on. Its good to see an honest interview from a coach and I would say we havent seen it since Anscombe. Maybe the odd moment from Gibbes but I think he spoke well. Back to Stockdale and there's highs and lows in every career. Nobody is talking about the fact Ringrose got charged down twice, one of which led to a score. Doesnt mean Ringrose didnt cost his team 7 points but because they got the result its forgotten.

Clive, Byrne missed kicks as well so I dont know how many points leinster left behind. You can wallow or move on and realise we have three games to secure a home QF and give the fans another play off and maybe get some decisions we wouldnt get if away. If we maintain that level of performance we will be grand imo.

BOD is indeed a hard man to overly like in his post playing career. But let's not over-react to a punditry over-reaction. Everything in today's climate seems to be outlandishly fast monumental over-reactions to some outlandishly fast and silly over-reactions. But that's sport, isn't it. And it's certainly sport in the modern saturation coverage age where well paid pundits are expected to work for their money with their hard edged comments to rise the re-hit value on social media.
So, rather than take BOD out and publically hang him, I'd suggest someone simply ask him 'but would you still pick him [Stockdale] for an Irish shirt on a plane to Japan? I'd bet on the answer being 'Yes'.
So no harm done, Stockdale already forgiven, BOD still hangs on to his European Quarter Final comments for dramatic effect and the World keeps turning... if an hour earlier than I wanted this morning!

Don nobody is accepting going into the Challenge Cup next year.

GA raised the issue insofar as it would ower McFarlands creditability.
I responded by saying that was untrue in the eyes both Ulster and the IRFU, as we are clearly making big strides forward.

Your last paragraph is spot on.

One of Scarlets and Edinburgh will be close to out of it after next week - they cant both win their head to head.

Probably scenarios given all outstanding fixtures:
Win 3 we will be in the playoffs and at home
Win 2 we will be in the playoff and probably at home
Win 1 we will probably be in the playoffs but away, definitely in the head to head for the last European place, probably at home
Win 0 we could still be in the head to head but away

I think Addison was sorely missed. He offers so much from either full back or outside centre. How long is he out for?

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56158446_10157141463148524_6863972554986487808_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=f8bd20f77f56972dba99137501ef1a72&oe=5D0CD6EA

This is apparently the incident Leinster Rugby are tweeting about.

Thank god it wasn't an Ulster fan

Maine man wrote:I think Addison was sorely missed. He offers so much from either full back or outside centre. How long is he out for?

Addison always has had back troubles - his fitness record wasn't great at Sale.
Such a shame but I suspect he is a player we will see in short burst rather than week in week out.

I see him at 15 for the simple reason he is a marked step up from Ludik, he isn't a step up from Marshall at 13.
I thought Marshall was outstanding when he came on and showed all what we have been missing

We know better than most about having one or two muppets in the support, especially when its bloated by a more casual element. One of those things. Im sure Leinster will deal with the idiot.

Leinster fans are a great bunch, one idiot would have to try much harder to change my opinion on that. One bad apple and all that.

Absolutely - same goes for us; although some try to suggest otherwise

Artful_Dodger wrote:Anybody no more about this tweet from Leinster?

“Leinster Rugby is aware of an isolated incident during yesterday’s game which was dealt with at the time by stewards and by Gardaí. There is no place in sport or in our society for any form of physical or verbal abuse. #LEIvULS”

Apparently a Leinster fan was dishing out some sectarian abuse at the start of the 2nd half, Leinster fans reported him and he was taken away

Sorry a bit belated but my thoughts on Saturday.

Over the 80min I thought we just shaded it but Leinster's big match experience just got them over the line but our young players will be better for the experience. I expected Leinster to a be a bit under cooked and was hopeful of an upset but really that is one that got away.

The intensity was as high as I've ever seen in club rugby, it was incredible from both sides, just a pity only one side could progress but the Ulster players did themselves proud.

The big talking point obviously was Stockdales non-try. Yes this was an error but I've seen them given as there was never space between his fingers and the ball, no complaints about the decision though.

I think the stick he's got from some quarters though is just ridiculous, firstly there are very few players who'd have made the line in the first place with so many defenders to beat, secondly Kearney deserves some credit for not giving up a lost cause and great defending to pressurize Stockdale into rushing the touchdown when he thinks he's clear. Aside from this Stockdale had a super game so no need for him to apologize for anything.  

Other stand out players for Ulster were McCloskey (my motm for the second week running), Henderson, Treadwell, Balacoune and Cave, who's defence on Ringrose was world class. It was great to see Marshall back but very unfortunate for Best to finish with an injury.

For Leinster Byrne showed a lot of bottle to kick the penalty on one leg and Adam Byrne really impressed as well I fact the battle between the back 3, all youngsters bar Kearney, was fabulous to watch. Conan was a deserved motm and must fancy his chances for Japan now.

I hope Schmidt was watching McCloskey as well, who's in the form of his life, in contrast to Aki who is a long way off his best since the Autumn.

Ulster have confirmed Rory will miss the Glasgow match, which has to be a good sign long term as they haven't ruled him out beyond that

Jack McGrath is set to be made official today

"I think the stick he's got from some quarters though is just ridiculous, firstly there are very few players who'd have made the line in the first place with so many defenders to beat, secondly Kearney deserves some credit for not giving up a lost cause and great defending to pressurize Stockdale into rushing the touchdown when he thinks he's clear. Aside from this Stockdale had a super game so no need for him to apologize for anything."

Agreed 100%
The so called fans who are giving him stick aren't fans, as you said Rodders I've seen those given and at the time I was 50/50 as to what the TMO would come up with because of that. The fact is it was an error and Jacob has no more need to apologise than Eric O'Sullivan has to for allowing Conan to run past him at the ruck not long after which led to Byrne's score.
Darren Cave showed exactly why he should stay for one more year but I've been told he's definitely not. He gave a masterclass to Ireland's first choice outside centre which doesn't happen very often.

Ulster hopefully have hit a little bit of form at the business end of the season, form that could see the lads in the play-offs but more importantly in top flight European competition next season. If the heads can be kept up there's no reason why we can't get a home play-off spot. Being out of Europe might have a bright side if we can put our full resources and concentration into the Pro14.

To highlight what a game it was, the average ball in play time is 35 minutes in this match it was 46 minutes. That is a lung destroying extra 11 minutes of high intensity rugby

And just to echo a lot of what's already been said. No other winger at the moment would have got near the try line, anyone who gives Stockdale abuse knows nothing about rugby.
I can't see how McCloskey can be ignored by Joe anymore, his defence was brilliant and we all know he can attack. Running straight over Healy was a bonus
O'Sullivan has one hell of an engine on him.
Henderson driving O'Brien back in the first 3 minutes was class.
Treadwell showed what he can do and I want to see it every week.
You would think Lowery had been playing 15 his whole career.
Cave giving a defensive masterclass.
Marshall looking like he'd never been away.
I think Cooney is back to his best.
Every one of the team was outstanding.

Yes in Rugby League at least I'm pretty sure they give those as there isn't a need for downward pressure as long as there is contact. Given the question was "any reason I can't award..." , there was an argument it should have been given. There is a try Bowe was given against Scotland, around 2010 I think that comes to mind, were he loses control touching down.

Anyway no issues with the decision but this "unforgivable" nonsense is way over the top, Stockdale should have made sure of it but the speed he is moving while he crosses the line it isn't as simple as some have made out, and Kearney definitely does well to apply pressure.

If he's have dived early, with no defender on his tail, I've no doubt the same critics would be criticizing him for not going closer to the sticks to make the conversion easier.

He's a super talent and it really bugs me how we love to build up players to knock them down, it was a minor judgement/technical error nothing more and he'll learn.

Jack McGrath's signing should be good for him and Ulster.

In fairness to O'Driscoll it is still a basic error and the 'unforgiveable' quote is just that. He's not advocating dropping him or anything. In fact I saw an interview were he said he did something similar but no one remembers it because they won and he had already got a hat trick.

Not sure I agree entirely with you above Baboon. I dont want to be overly critical of any one player or indeed the team after an epic performance but Lowry to me was exposed at 15. Purely because he isnt really a 15 and is only in his first pro season but his aerial presence isnt great nor is his positioning and he was frequently coming from far too deep to try and contest. Definitely massive positives from all the team and the pride in the shirt has been restored mind you. The margins are just so fine at that level.

BOD clarified on Twitter he meant in the context of the game, not sure it changes much but do think the comment is being blown out of proportion as I don't think it was literal and just hyperbole

As for Lowry, can't see how he was too deep. He was getting up and contesting for the ball, he was just competing against bigger guys which made it a difficult task. On occasions he had come into the defensive line and read some of Leinsters kicks through well and was the only one to see Furlongs kick coming

"In fact I saw an interview were he said he did something similar but no one remembers it because they won and he had already got a hat trick. "

Just look at his try v France in 2001 scored in the very same corner at Landsdowne Road. It's very,very similar and I remember at the time thinking he'd lost control and it should have been a knock on. It's the finest of margins and on a different day with a different TMO Stockdale's try might have stood. Sometimes it's a coin toss.

I was impressed with Lowry myself. He seems to get really good elevation which allows him to challenge for balls you wouldn't expect him to. Despite his size he looks very comfortable at 15.

Cant agree with that at all. Obviously his size is the primary issue at 15 when contesting but he was literally running at full speed. More natural 15s dont have to be going at that speed because of where they position themselves. I'd rather see him given a few games at 10 but I realise thats not going to happen this season unless Burns gets injured. Im not suggesting he was horrible at 15 but I dont think its natural for him. I also dont like him as the last line of defence. Im sounding more down on him than I mean to. Hes an awesome talent. just needs seasoning

I thought the speed was to give himself greater authority in the air, remember him going full pelt at someone and actually knocking them back in the air because of it. Him being the last line of defence I don't think is a huge worry, was it Furlong or SOB who broke through at one point and it was Lowry who took them by the ankle, it looked like a kid trying to stop their dad going out to work

Personally I think his size is more of an issue at 10, as he is a target when he stands in the defensive line or taking the ball flat. Was it the Ospreys game he got concussed?

I'm with Marty, I think he looks surprisingly confident at the back even though teams will target him withe high ball. He looks more natural there than someone like Larmour... at least he didn't call for a mark 5m outside his 22 ...

Well done Ulster at the weekend, i think that result moves you up to being a top team in the league.

It's funny to see the chat about making the Champions Cup next year.  I know you have had some lean years but you are in poll position.  If Scarlets lose to Edinburgh they are basically out.  Edinburgh must play Scarlets and yourselves.

Ulster should be home Quarter finalists going to either Munster or Glasgow in the semis believing they have a chance.

Team has been much better but didn't pick up those BPs, if they had they would be on nearly 60pts.  If they show up well in the playoffs they have to be seen as a challenger next year.

Getting a semi spot will also improve your pool prospects in europe where as this year you were bottom seed.

Could well be this for you
Quarters - Connacht
Semi - Munster
Final - Leinster

Brendan wrote:Well done Ulster at the weekend, i think that result moves you up to being a top team in the league.

It's funny to see the chat about making the Champions Cup next year.  I know you have had some lean years but you are in poll position.  If Scarlets lose to Edinburgh they are basically out.  Edinburgh must play Scarlets and yourselves.

Ulster should be home Quarter finalists going to either Munster or Glasgow in the semis believing they have a chance.

Team has been much better but didn't pick up those BPs, if they had they would be on nearly 60pts.  If they show up well in the playoffs they have to be seen as a challenger next year.

Getting a semi spot will also improve your pool prospects in europe where as this year you were bottom seed.

Could well be this for you
Quarters - Connacht
Semi - Munster
Final - Leinster

Saturday's result changed little, the forecast was that Ulster would lose but not as closely. The fact that they emptied themselves in a high intensity game to keep the margin down doesn't stand them in great stead against a Glasgow side who sleepwalked through their encounter with Saracens.

Geoff summed it up well for Ulster's remaining three League games

geoff999rugby wrote:Probably scenarios given all outstanding fixtures:
Win 3 we will be in the playoffs and at home
Win 2 we will be in the playoff and probably at home
Win 1 we will probably be in the playoffs but away, definitely in the head to head for the last European place, probably at home
Win 0 we could still be in the head to head but away

Considering the last game against Leinster is the easiest of the three remaining fixtures, winning even one match isn't guaranteed.
Benetton are all but guaranteed to beat Zebre
Scarlets are all but guaranteed to beat Zebre and Dragons
... so the gap between those teams and Ulster evaporates
either Scarlets or Edinburgh must win their fixture - probably Scarlets and if so Ulster need 6 points from their last three games. Ulster are far from sure to be in the playoffs for the League...
Will Munster go with a full dress rehearsal against Benetton the week before their encounter with Saracens to help Ulster out?

Everyone seen this? Ballboy/steward happened to be filming when Stockdale almost scored.

How fitting that the biscuit was a 'Breakaway'.

https://www.rugbydump.com/news/watch-bizarre-new-footage-of-jacob-stockdale-drop-goes-viral

Whoever made that tea needs a long, hard look at themselves. There's supposed to be more tea than milk. Absolutely unforgivable

Cave has announced he will retire at the end of the season

That's not tea, that's tinged milk and water. Probably tinged by the previous breakaway

It's a fantastic shot of Jacob's effort from a perspective rarely viewed. Nice one but sort out the Nambarrie.

marty2086 wrote:Cave has announced he will retire at the end of the season

What? After that display on Saturday?
I know they've been saying it on t'other forum but I would have thought he had another season in him. They've also said over there that he's had a few offers, some surprisingly good but he's refused them all. He knows his mind and body better than anyone so it'll be the right call for him.

Cave was incredible on Saturday, best performance in years from him.

I do think he's past his best though and probably the right decision from him as he would be a bit part player if everyone is fit.

He's been a great servant for Ulster, probably a bit unlucky from an Ireland point of view that his best years overlapped with BOD and D'arcy's twilight seasons.

I hope it's not a knee jerk reaction to the fact his body was probably in agony on Sunday/Monday as I'm sure everyone's was.

Goes without saying, a good finish to the league would be a great send off for him, and possibly Best.

Also, good point made by the guys on the podcast - we have another regular league game against the boys in blue, but we could also end up facing them again in the semis or final.

You have to feel after that performance, that we should fully believe a title is on the table.

Depends on whether the QF was a one off massive step up in performance, or if it's a marker, and the team take it as a real boost to their confidence.

The performance from saturday if replicated would beat too much for either Edinburgh or Scarlets to live with I'm sure.

I'm excited to see Marshall again, and excited to see Stockdale respond to that incident (and HE will for sure), and we also have Addison to come back.

Am I wrong to be confident?