Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[McLaren]

First topic message reminder :

Kwini

It amazes me that a professional footballer can end up one footed. Just practice with your weak foot every day.

I remember spending a summer playing with only my left foot in the garden. Came back next season two footed.

[McLaren]

Is Thom Yorke related to Dwight?


Super

I am not really bothered what individuals do in relation to their own co2 output given "being green" is nothing more than a middle class badge of honor. What matters is getting governments to adopt policies which strictly regulate areas that impact the environment and furthermore getting those laws passed internationally.

One good step towards this is well known faces talking about the climate and making it a popular mainstream issue. Any pressure on the main parties of countries to adopt green policies counts is worthwhile. Assuming you want global warming to be combated celebrities speaking out can only be a good thing.

And for the record f1's carbon footprint isn't that big compared to other sports because there are only 20 races a season and not that many people travel to watch it. Even other motorsports contribute more co2.

[super_realist]

Mac, what use is getting well known people to be the face of a movement/action when they demonstrably do nothing to stop their own emissions?

That is like having Shane Lowry as the face of Weight Watchers.
If you want someone to front a movement, why would you want someone who is a hypocrite? How is that not negative for the cause? Do you not understand irony?

The carbon footprint of F1 is collosal Mac. The size of the teams, the amount of people who have to go around the world, the plane trips, the lorries, the fuel, the testing, the tyres, the construction of the tracks etc not to mention the tens of thousands who travel to watch.

Why did Hamilton feel he had to weigh into an argument where it is so easy to point out why he has no place in passing comment on being more green?

Also, the idea of a human extinction due to climate change is hilarious and there is no evidence at all that it is happening or is likely to happen.

[McLaren]

So if Hamilton quit f1, became vegan and lived off grid powered by his own wind turbine you would listen to his message?

[JAS]

So today’s tricky question is....why is it ok for the leader of the DUP to talk to terrorists but not ok for the leader of the Labour Party??

Curiously looking forward to the responses on that one :-p

Actually let me rephrase it and give it a bit of context...

Why do the Tories find it acceptable that Foster consults with terrorist leaders on the acceptability of a deal despite spending years vilifying Corbyn for holding dialogue with senior IRA figures?

[super_realist]

So if Hamilton quit f1, became vegan and lived off grid powered by his own wind turbine you would listen to his message?

No Mac, I don't listen to anyone's message when it is filled with lies like 'human extinction from climate change" Why would I?

I'm perfectly fine with people being more green, but being lectured to by hypocrites and who spout conspiracy theory nonsense to scare populations is not something anyone should buy into.
Furthermore, if anything is going to cause a problem for humanity it is XR's demand for zero carbon by 2025, that would trap billions in poverty with no hope of getting out and plunge hundreds of millions back into poverty.

Interesting maths for these idiots. Climate change would need to kill 1,000,000 A DAY for 20 years to kill off humanity. Can you see that happening?

[navyblueshorts]

So if Hamilton quit f1, became vegan and lived off grid powered by his own wind turbine you would listen to his message?

No. Although I'd consider what he said with more respect if he divested himself of all his wealth such that he's basically one of us. Easy to bang on about something like this from a position of extreme comfort. **** him.

[McLaren]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50061569

I guess this is the story that sparked Supers post. In it Hamilton confirms he has gone vegan and given up his private jet. At least he is doing something.

But Navy, who would you listen to on matters of global warming and c02 reduction?

[McLaren]

So today’s tricky question is....why is it ok for the leader of the DUP to talk to terrorists but not ok for the leader of the Labour Party??

Curiously looking forward to the responses on that one :-p

Actually let me rephrase it and give it a bit of context...

Why do the Tories find it acceptable that Foster consults with terrorist leaders on the acceptability of a deal despite spending years vilifying Corbyn for holding dialogue with senior IRA figures?

For clarity who spoke to who and when? Haven't followed this story, sorry.

[super_realist]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50061569

I guess this is the story that sparked Supers post.  In it Hamilton confirms he has gone vegan and given up his private jet.  At least he is doing something.

But Navy, who would you listen to on matters of global warming and c02 reduction?

Mac, have you not seen Hamiltons bizarre tweet or Instagram post? It's lunacy.
He's given up his private jet? He's still got a collection of houses, boats in Monaco and a fleet of cars. Why would ANYONE listen to someone like him on the planet suffering when he's a chief protagonist of it.

Like Navy, if I'm going to be lectured to by someone on green matters then it has to be someone who isn't lying to us about "mass extinction" or any other laughable claims and who is not a hypocrite. Surely that is fair?
Why would you want to be lectured to by planks like Harry, Hamilton, Greta, Jude Law, Emma Thomson etc. As Navy says, its very easy to tell people they need to use less fossil fuel when you've got more money than Croesus and can afford other ways of reducing your demand.

[JAS]

So today’s tricky question is....why is it ok for the leader of the DUP to talk to terrorists but not ok for the leader of the Labour Party??

Curiously looking forward to the responses on that one :-p

Actually let me rephrase it and give it a bit of context...

Why do the Tories find it acceptable that Foster consults with terrorist leaders on the acceptability of a deal despite spending years vilifying Corbyn for holding dialogue with senior IRA figures?

For clarity who spoke to who and when?  Haven't followed this story, sorry.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/10/16/news/dup-defends-arlene-foster-s-astonishing-meetings-with-senior-loyalists-1739844/?param=ds12rif76F

[dynamark]

I'm struggling to understand the parents of the young man killed in car crash involving american lady diplomats wife now travelling to US etc .
Regardless of court and sentencing ipossible short custodial sentence in this country sadly he has passed away and that is not going to change.

[super_realist]

I'm struggling to understand the parents of the young man killed in car crash involving american lady diplomats wife  now travelling to US etc .
Regardless of court and sentencing ipossible short custodial sentence in this country sadly he has passed away and that is not going to change.

You'd probably want the person responsible for your child's death to face prosecution for it though wouldn't you?

[McLaren]

At this stage what does a loyalist paramilitary look like? Some neds in a shed with a spud gun?

[super_realist]

At this stage what does a loyalist paramilitary look like? Some neds in a shed with a spud gun?

Not sure they'd waste a spud Mac.

[JAS]

I'm struggling to understand the parents of the young man killed in car crash involving american lady diplomats wife  now travelling to US etc .
Regardless of court and sentencing ipossible short custodial sentence in this country sadly he has passed away and that is not going to change.

You'd probably want the person responsible for your child's death to face prosecution for it though wouldn't you?

Those unfortunate parents basically duped into a media circus, fair play to them for not going along with it. “No way will she be going back to the UK to face justice” Yep Donald, cracking example of the “special relationship” right there!!

[JAS]

At this stage what does a loyalist paramilitary look like? Some neds in a shed with a spud gun?

Probably not your most sensitive choice of weapon statement Mac. Have you ever been to the 6 counties?

[McLaren]

Almost like I carefully chose the words.

[super_realist]

I'm struggling to understand the parents of the young man killed in car crash involving american lady diplomats wife  now travelling to US etc .
Regardless of court and sentencing ipossible short custodial sentence in this country sadly he has passed away and that is not going to change.

She was never ever going to return to the UK, but you'd certainly want some answers and a proper explanation from the Yanks at the very least.
You'd probably want the person responsible for your child's death to face prosecution for it though wouldn't you?

Those unfortunate parents basically duped into a media circus, fair play to them for not going along with it. “No way will she be going back to the UK to face justice” Yep Donald,  cracking example of the “special relationship” right there!!

She was never going to get sent back, but you'd want some answers from the Septics

[super_realist]

At this stage what does a loyalist paramilitary look like? Some neds in a shed with a spud gun?

Probably not your most sensitive choice of weapon statement Mac. Have you ever been to the 6 counties?

Sensitive? You do realise the potato famine was bloody centuries ago?

[Davie]

Those unfortunate parents basically duped into a media circus, fair play to them for not going along with it. “No way will she be going back to the UK to face justice” Yep Donald,  cracking example of the “special relationship” right there!!

unfortunate? Yes. Duped and not going along with it? No effing way. The mother has been whoring herself to any media outlet that will listen (and there are plenty of them).

Who paid for their trip to Washington DC? She (they) attended the White House to meet Drumpf and he told her the woman was in the next room. They refused to meet her.

[JAS]

At this stage what does a loyalist paramilitary look like? Some neds in a shed with a spud gun?

Probably not your most sensitive choice of weapon statement Mac. Have you ever been to the 6 counties?

Sensitive? You do realise the potato famine was bloody centuries ago?

Oh don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a problem with it, I just think it reeks just a wee bit like hypocrisy from one who gets offended on other people’s behalf about Sergio’s appetite for fried chicken.

[super_realist]

At this stage what does a loyalist paramilitary look like? Some neds in a shed with a spud gun?

Probably not your most sensitive choice of weapon statement Mac. Have you ever been to the 6 counties?

Sensitive? You do realise the potato famine was bloody centuries ago?

Oh don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a problem with it, I just think it reeks just a wee bit like hypocrisy from one who get offended on other people’s behalf about Sergio appetite for fried chicken.

I certainly agree on that point, but we've always known Mac is a virtue signalling hypocrite.

[JAS]

Those unfortunate parents basically duped into a media circus, fair play to them for not going along with it. “No way will she be going back to the UK to face justice” Yep Donald,  cracking example of the “special relationship” right there!!

unfortunate? Yes. Duped and not going along with it? No effing way. The mother has been whoring herself to any media outlet that will listen (and there are plenty of them).

Who paid for their trip to Washington DC? She (they) attended the White House to meet Drumpf and he told her the woman was in the next room. They refused to meet her.

I suppose it depends on the pretext of the trip. Was it to meet Trump and/or American legal people to discuss the case or was it to meet the woman. I would imagine the expectation would have been if it was the latter it would have been a private meeting, not a media circus. If they never nailed that down then yes, maybe their expectations should have been different, then again 2-3 months in they must be pretty much in the depths of the grieving process. Not easy making sound decisions based on logic in that mindset.

[I'm never wrong]

I suppose it depends on the pretext of the trip. Was it to meet Trump and/or American legal people to discuss the case  or was it to meet the woman.

They also didn't want to meet her without professional help present, in case they needed it.

[I'm never wrong]

Why would you want to be lectured to by planks like Harry, Hamilton, Greta, Jude Law, Emma Thomson etc. As Navy says, its very easy to tell people they need to use less fossil fuel when you've got more money than Croesus and can afford other ways of reducing your demand.

The 100 hypocrites respond Link to article in Daily Mail

[super_realist]

Why would you want to be lectured to by planks like Harry, Hamilton, Greta, Jude Law, Emma Thomson etc. As Navy says, its very easy to tell people they need to use less fossil fuel when you've got more money than Croesus and can afford other ways of reducing your demand.

The 100 hypocrites respond Link to article in Daily Mail

I've seen that, and I don't think that such a pathetic letter remotely excuses them from their massive hypocrisy or makes their position even slightly more justifiable.

Let's face it. Probably every person on that list could afford to retire immediately if they really cared about their carbon footprint, yet, they carry on doing what they do and lecturing us on it as if we are all the same and all equally responsible. We aren't.

It's a disgraceful letter which tries to equate the CO2 footprint of you and me as being no different from a musician/actor/royal/sports star etc. They infer that they are forced to work in a fossil fuel economy. No, you aren't. You don't have to work at all. You don't have to consume any energy if you really don't want to. You can live off the grid if you really want to. I'd be interested to see how sustainable the houses they live in are, where they get all their clothes from, do they have solar power, ground heat pumps, wind turbines etc.
If they are going to lecture us on it, then they have to change their lives to the point where their CO2 is the same as ours to begin with.

Cumberbatch for example has advertised something like 5 different cars in China (non electric) and also knocked a cyclist off his bike in his LAMBORGHINI in April.  Putting their names to a letter does not excuse them from their hypocrisy or make their position any better. He didn't have to advertise those cars, he could have advertised Brocolli or Bananas and if he really cared about the planet then he wouldn't own (or have owned) a supercar. He was also on the "star in the car" on Top Gear too. If he genuinely cared, then he wouldn't do any of those things. You could probably say the same for at least 90% of the people on that list.

The UK is doing more than virtually any other country to reduce CO2 and has a globally low CO2 footprint (1% of the whole world), down 38% since 1990, so why don't they target the countries that do the most damage instead of having a go at a country/industries who are actually doing better than most?

Is there a more aloof, smug, self satisfied, uninformed, wrong and deluded bunch of idiots than middle class  celebrity climate change protestors?
The actual people on the ground are not much better and I'm glad to see commuters fighting back and hauling them out of the way this morning.

By the way, why are they targeting the London Underground? It's ELECTRIC. Isn't that the way they want us to go?

[JAS]

By the way, why are they targeting the London Underground? It's ELECTRIC. Isn't that the way they want us to go?

There a lot of good points in your post Supes but the one above is the icing on the cake.

Protests and the right to protest are an essential part of a free society, however protestors can sometimes totally undermine their argument by choosing the wrong target. This is one of those.

I do get heavily sick of being lectured to by celebrity hypocrites. I used to love a lot of U2’s music until Bono became the mouthpiece for a tax avoiding elite trying to guilt trip ordinary people...eff off!!

[McLaren]

I used to love a lot of U2’s music 

[super_realist]

Absolutely. Protest and demonstrate all you want, but once you start disrupting other people's lives your protest has no place.

There's a fine saying that your freedom to swing your arm ends at my nose. These doomsday cult, conspiracy theorising, tin foil hat wearing idiots have taken their right to protest beyond reasonable levels and really need dealt with to stop them getting in the way of lawful citizens.
Fortunately I think that they are losing support.

Interesting to see one of the cult members kick a member of the public in the face.

[navyblueshorts]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50061569

I guess this is the story that sparked Supers post.  In it Hamilton confirms he has gone vegan and given up his private jet.  At least he is doing something.

But Navy, who would you listen to on matters of global warming and c02 reduction?

Mac, I already think it's axiomatic (and always should have been) that we minimise what we pump out into the environment. I don't disagree that we're influencing the climate or dumping too much sheisse in the oceans. I don't need some rich-as-Croesus t0sser or some adolescent gob-for-rent to preach to me, particularly from positions of complete hypocrisy. For Hamilton specifically, big deal; he's got rid of his private jet. Easy to virtue signal when you're that wealthy.

[Be_the_ball]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50061569

I guess this is the story that sparked Supers post.  In it Hamilton confirms he has gone vegan and given up his private jet.  At least he is doing something.

But Navy, who would you listen to on matters of global warming and c02 reduction?

Mac, I already think it's axiomatic (and always should have been) that we minimise what we pump out into the environment. I don't disagree that we're influencing the climate or dumping too much sheisse in the oceans. I don't need some rich-as-Croesus t0sser or some adolescent gob-for-rent to preach to me, particularly from positions of complete hypocrisy. For Hamilton specifically, big deal; he's got rid of his private jet. Easy to virtue signal when you're that wealthy.

Navy, this just shows how out of step you are with modern society ( ). If we didn't have celebrities to tell us how to live, how would we ever know whats good for us.

[McLaren]

Navy

I am not saying that anyone needs Hamilton or Thunberg to tell them what to think but if a political movement is to get going that will push politicians to enact the necessary polices, it helps to have these public figures on side. Like it or not some people will be moved to support the politics of c02 reduction based on celebrity involvement with the issue.  I say get as many people on side in as many ways as possible?  A few gammons like super will get but hurt over Greta but in general celebrity endorsement is a good thing, as most companies seem to accept given the endorsement deals handed out.

[super_realist]

Navy

I am not saying that anyone needs Hamilton or Thunberg to tell them what to think but if a political movement is to get going that will push politicians to enact the necessary polices, it helps to have these public figures on side. Like it or not some people will be moved to support the politics of c02 reduction based on celebrity involvement with the issue.  I say get as many people on side in as many ways as possible?  A few gammons like super will get but hurt over Greta but in general celebrity endorsement is a good thing, as most companies seem to accept given the endorsement deals handed out.

Mac, you seem to be ignoring that it's perfectly obvious that these people aren't practicing what they preach, as such it completely denuded any credibility in their stance and representation of the cause they proclaim to be campaigning for.  People are rightfully laughing at these celebrities and their rampant hypocrisy.

As I said earlier, how much notice would you give to a campaign if Shane Lowry or Vanessa Feltz was trying to get people to be fit, healthy and a proper weight?
None, so how are these moron's having anything other than a negative effect on the climate change position?

Everyone knows that we need to reduce C02, but what possible use is a message endorsed by people who live their life doing the complete opposite? Can you not see the irony? If you presented that method to any marketing or advertising board you'd get thrown out of the office. It's like getting Fred West to front a Good Landlord campaign.

You can call me a gammon if you like, but the extreme element of environmentalism, of which Greta is part is borderline conspiracy theorist nutter. It is a harmful cult spreading lies and hysteria. I heard one spokesperson for XR on radio yesterday stating as fact we were facing a human extinction and that our planet is on fire. Complete scaremongering nonsense.

[McLaren]

Super

What you are missing is that you are worried about whether celebrities who speak out about the climate practice what they preach, but other people might be persuaded to get on board. As I said, getting as many people on message as possible in as many ways as possible is the way forward. Even if you are not convinced by a Hamilton type are you not content that others might be?

[McLaren]

Also it is a fact that we are facing human extinction, its just a case of when.

[super_realist]

Super

What you are missing is that you are worried about whether celebrities who speak out about the climate practice what they preach, but other people might be persuaded to get on board. As I said, getting as many people on message as possible in as many ways as possible is the way forward. Even if you are not convinced by a Hamilton type are you not content that others might be?

Why would anyone be tempted to get on board any campaign when those who are the face of a campaign admit that they will carry on their polluting lifestyle? Why would that convince anyone? You seem to be inferring that just because some anus from the showbiz world mentions climate change, then it doesn't matter what they do with their lives as long as they raise the subject. How retarded is that?

Did you need some vacuous celebrity to tell you that smoking is bad, or that eating junk food is bad, or that lack of exercise is bad? Of course you didn't. It's common knowledge and no one is jumping on board those platforms just because a moronic celebrity mentions it.

Yes, humans will probably eventually become extinct, but it won't be in the next ten years, within a generation, the earth is not on fire, we will not turn to cannibalism, there will not be mass migration in the next 10 years, we don't just have 10 years to stop climate change or any other of this death cults crackpot claims.

How idiotic would you have to be that it would take a post from Hamilton to make you aware of the fact that climate is changing and we are to some degree responsible?  Do you seriously think that anyone hasn't heard of climate change without celebrity input? Don't you think that it would put off MORE people to hear sanctimonious rubbish from a hypocrite?
How gullible are you to think that anyone would need someone  like that to pass on a message which has been in the public domain for years. Do you seriously think anyone would need a celebrity to make them aware, regardless of whether they were hypocrites or not?

Furthermore, the crazy demands of XR would actually be more damaging to humans than leaving things how they currently are.

[JAS]

Hmmm, I’m probably somewhere a bit in between on this one. I do think XRs strategy of way over the top panic is on the one hand ludicrous and full of ridiculous exaggerations but to be fair they’ve certainly raised the profile.

On what is actually happening ion the planet, yes there are disturbing signs as signalled by things like glacial melt and ice cap receding. Extreme weather events, well they happen, are they more common now than say a 100 years ago, yes probably, but are they a definitive signal of weather and consequently climate getting out of control, probably not. The earth has oscillated from ice age to warm and back again over hundreds of millions of years, we may be slightly speeding up one of those oscillations that’s the reality and I don’t see it in the next several hundred years as a potential human extinction event. Much more likely in my view is an extinction event centred around an elitist greedy capitalist society not getting what it wants and precipitating a nuclear war. That is a much greater threat to civilisation as we know it than climate change.

[super_realist]

JAS, much of the issues are to do with rising populations and where these populations are on the earth.
Typically they reside in places where they are more susceptible to weather events regardless of climate change. For example coastal areas are most susceptible to floods, hurricanes, typhoons etc. Therefore it appears that events are becoming more frequent and more serious simply because they affect more people.
The earth has been much hotter than present in human history without the alarmist panic and claims of impending doom than it is now.
Groups like XR telling lies about 10 years to save the planet, or 200 species dying a day due to climate change are so transparently false that you'd have to be an idiot to buy into such cultish propaganda.

We are in a post glacial environment. The temp has been rising for over 10,000 years. It may be quicker due to human influence but its not a crisis and there certainly isn't an emergency.

I get the impression that these morons are more anti capitalist rather than actually caring for the planet and just use them to attack governments.

[McLaren]

Super

What is hard about this?

I don't believe climate change is an important issue that should be dealt with quickly because of Greta or Hamilton but if they get others on board then who cares?

Not everyone needs to arrive at the same conclusion by exactly the same means.

[McLaren]

its not a crisis and there certainly isn't an emergency

That is in direct opposition to the mainstream scientific consensus and all IPCC reports. Both of which argue that drastic c02 reduction needs to take place before the end of the century to avoid irreversible changes to the climate that will negatively impact human life.

Would you care to share with us how you have reached your dissenting view on this subject?

[super_realist]

Super

What is hard about this?

I don't believe climate change is an important issue that should be dealt with quickly because of Greta or Hamilton but if they get others on board then who cares?

Not everyone needs to arrive at the same conclusion by exactly the same means.

Mac, I don't believe that idiots like Hamilton and Cumberbatch voicing off about climate change raises the profile in the slightest or gets anyone on board. Why would it? When have you ever listened to a celebrities opinion on anything they aren't qualified to speak about?

Everyone has already heard of climate change and no one needs to be informed of this by any celebrity. We are lectured to with unjustifiable claims from the media and environmental cults all day long about climate change. Why would a moronic celebrity doing the same convince anyone? Do you really think people are so stupid that they'd deny climate change until the point an unqualified celebrity hypocrite mentions it?


Like I said, name any person who has only ever "got on board" in regards to the perils of smoking, junk food or lack of exercise simply due to a moronic celebrity publicising it?

[super_realist]

its not a crisis and there certainly isn't an emergency

That is in direct opposition to the mainstream scientific consensus and all IPCC reports. Both of which argue that drastic c02 reduction needs to take place before the end of the century to avoid irreversible changes to the climate that will negatively impact human life.

Would you care to share with us how you have reached your dissenting view on this subject?

Mac, stop trying to twist my words. I'm talking about the ridiculous claims of groups like XR and idiots like Greta Thundberg which are lunacy. The IPCC are certainly not claiming that we have 10 years left, they aren't claiming we will be cannibals, they aren't saying that humans will be extinct in  a generation at all. Those are the sort of crisis and emergency that these death cults are referring to. The IPCC aren't engaging in any of the hysterical lies of XR.

They are saying that the climate is changing and that we have had an effect. They aren't claiming there is anything like the same way that there is a crisis or an emergency. That is hyperbolic language used in addition by protest groups. The IPCC and climate change groups are not the same thing and not to be treated as if they are linked. XR are comparable with anti vaccination lobbyists or lunatic religious nuts with end of the world is nigh sandwich boards. The XR definition of a crisis is based on their made up idea of what is going to happen which isn't based in science.


We haven't died out due to climate change before and there have been plenty bigger changes than we are currently seeing. We adapt to the changing climate, so if the point comes when the change from the future becomes irreversible then we will deal with it like we always have.
It will be good training anyway because even without human influence we have always had to deal with changing climates and always will. Why is this any different this time?

[dynamark]

Clocks change next week never mind the climate.
Brexit - very interesting day tomorrow if the deal goes down the pan we should have an election but may not have if labour bottle it.Watch and learn.

[super_realist]

Clocks change next week never mind the climate.
Brexit - very interesting day tomorrow if the deal goes down the pan we should have an election but may not have if labour bottle it.Watch and learn.

High time that they stopped changing the clocks. The argument for retaining GMT instead of BST no longer hold water.

[Be_the_ball]

Folks, genuine question. Does anyone actually know what Labour's position is on Brexit?

[navyblueshorts]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50061569

I guess this is the story that sparked Supers post.  In it Hamilton confirms he has gone vegan and given up his private jet.  At least he is doing something.

But Navy, who would you listen to on matters of global warming and c02 reduction?

Mac, I already think it's axiomatic (and always should have been) that we minimise what we pump out into the environment. I don't disagree that we're influencing the climate or dumping too much sheisse in the oceans. I don't need some rich-as-Croesus t0sser or some adolescent gob-for-rent to preach to me, particularly from positions of complete hypocrisy. For Hamilton specifically, big deal; he's got rid of his private jet. Easy to virtue signal when you're that wealthy.

Navy, this just shows how out of step you are with modern society ( ). If we didn't have celebrities to tell us how to live, how would we ever know whats good for us.

I know. How on Earth do I get through each day???

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

I am not saying that anyone needs Hamilton or Thunberg to tell them what to think but if a political movement is to get going that will push politicians to enact the necessary polices, it helps to have these public figures on side. Like it or not some people will be moved to support the politics of c02 reduction based on celebrity involvement with the issue.  I say get as many people on side in as many ways as possible?  A few gammons like super will get but hurt over Greta but in general celebrity endorsement is a good thing, as most companies seem to accept given the endorsement deals handed out.

Erm. No, it's not, although I know what you're saying. However, are people so goddamned pathetic that they have to have some airhead celebrity endorse something before they'll even engage with it? **** off. No wonder we have Brexit to deal with...

[navyblueshorts]

Folks, genuine question. Does anyone actually know what Labour's position is on Brexit?

No, and therein lies a huge problem. Opposition? My arse. Only by definition and convention.

[dynamark]

Labour had leave in its last manifesto I believe - incredibly.
And it might well need it again if it wants to win any seats in the next one

[super_realist]

Labour had leave in its last manifesto I believe - incredibly.
And it might well need it again if it wants to win any seats in the next one

I think Diggers realised this and topped himself.

[Sponsored content]