The Ashes - official thread

[Soul Requiem]

First topic message reminder :

I don't understand why Buttler isn't hogging the strike here.

[Duty281]

Probably going to put the mockers on him, but Buttler looking a let better this test. Seemingly finding the form of his past 12 months in the red ball stuff again

Been impressed with the application and defensive grit that all of England's 'lesser' batsmen have shown in this innings - Denly, Roy, Bairstow, Buttler.

Just a shame the three premier English batsmen of the series - Burns, Root and Stokes - only lasted 21 balls between them in this innings.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

How did the 3rd umpire not realise that Overton hit that? He's middled it into his pad!

[Duty281]

He hit that you blithering idiot. Right decision in the end.

[GSC]

the third umpire couldnt find evidence of eyesight in his own office

[KP_fan]

That frikkin piece of joke DRS 3rd umpiring almost got away blindly ignoring a full face off the bat onto pad

[KP_fan]

Had either of root or stokes scored a fighting 180 ball 60 odd.....Eng would have achieved a draw

[guildfordbat]

Tea at 4.10 today, that right?

Indeed.

Thanks, Duty.

2 wickets each session so far for Australia. Be good if we can keep them to that in this one.

I agree with comments on cricinfo that Paine should have got more men around the bat when Lyon was bowling, especially to Overton.

[Duty281]

Starting to remember Cardiff '09 now. England two down overnight, virtually nil chance of saving it but they somehow did. And this time Jos Buttler is Paul Collingwood. Which isn't something I'd ever thought I would say!

Aussies still favourites, especially with another new ball around the corner, but England starting to entertain the slightest chance. It's not really about the overs left, but the time until the bad light descends, which is maybe around 6ish at the most optimistic estimate. Can England hold out for another 90 minutes to complete an unlikely escape?

Safe to say I've been more impressed with Overton's batting than his bowling! Would give serious consideration to moving Leach to 9 as he has the capability of holding an end for a decent interval of time.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

It's the hope which kills you Duty!

[guildfordbat]

Like Olly, I'm worried about putting the mockers on things but fair to say that Buttler and Overton have done a decent job in getting us to tea without further damage.

36 overs to go though and I don't hold much hope of Archer and Broad lasting long. So an Aussie win remains favourite over the draw for me although we've put up more of a fight than I expected at stumps last night.

Do feel Australia should continually surround the bat when Lyon is bowling in this final session. If he goes for plenty, it matters not a jot and the rewards could be immense. Meanwhile, we obviously need total concentration and the hope that Duty's dark clouds turn up before the scheduled finish.

[guildfordbat]

PS Like Duty, I was wondering about Leach at 9. He's probably the best of our last 3 to bat time.

[guildfordbat]

Take it 6 overs at a time would be my advice to Buttler and Overton in the rather unlikely event of them asking for it. Just need to break the job up and do that 6 times.

[VTR]

I wanted Leach at 9 before a ball was bowled. Wasn't thinking of this scenario, but thought he'd be better hanging around with say Bairstow or Buttler whilst they got the runs. For all the talk of Archer's batting ability in FC cricket, he's been abput as good as Alan Mullally so far

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Games over now

[KP_fan]

Root should have send a night watch in lieu of himself last night...Eng will fall one 50 short from either root or stokes

[Duty281]

Oh. Nice ball, very nice. Fine effort from Buttler all the same.

Come on, lads, one more hour.

[Gooseberry]

I wanted Leach at 9 before a ball was bowled. Wasn't thinking of this scenario, but thought he'd be better hanging around with say Bairstow or Buttler whilst they got the runs. For all the talk of Archer's batting ability in FC cricket, he's been abput as good as Alan Mullally so far

Yet still folk think Currans devil may care batting will solve england.....


The batting order or who the 7th choice seamer was isnt the problem IMO. Its that England just dont have many good test players. County cricket is failing.

[Gooseberry]

3 wickets left for 210, if steve smith can do that on his own then why not these chaps between them

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Not a lot you can do when they keep that low. Aussies all but there now

[Gooseberry]

umm 2

[Gooseberry]

Not a lot you can do when they keep that low. Aussies all but there now

The ball or englands scores?

[Duty281]

Yeah tough break for Jofra on that one. Leach gets his promotion.

[GSC]

the end is nigh

[Gooseberry]

I think England can be summed up by Buttler showing uncharacteristic discipline to defend and grit through 110 balls only to get out leaving one.
Its not just the way they play, its a lack of ability when they play "properly"

[JDizzle]

Root should have send a night watch in lieu of himself last night...Eng will fall one 50 short from either root or stokes

A night watchman wasn’t keeping out that ball from Cummins.

[GSC]

england spent the last few years building a side to win a world cup and it shows up in their batting. Too many in that team who bat without any responsibility.

Only Burns and Stokes walking away with this series with any kind of plaudits for me in the batting department.

New coach, new focus and a rethink coming.

[VTR]

Archer couldn't do much there, but still it's another non contribution. One positive is Broad at 11 where he should have been for about the last three years!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Tbh I don't think England have batted too badly in this game - game was lost when they dropped Paine, and then the no-ball dismissal of Smith in quick succession, and then they lost theirs heads in the field after that. Done a half decent job of batting, not exceptional but about as good as you're going to get from this lineup

I'm very much of the opinion they might as well just go with it for the final test, Ashes already gone, and then start a new era with a new coach come the winter

[guildfordbat]

Root should have send a night watch in lieu of himself last night...Eng will fall one 50 short from either root or stokes

It's a game of opinions but that isn't mine. Btw, was it your's as soon as Burns was out last night or only now?

[Duty281]

Floodlights coming on! It's getting darker.

[VTR]

I'd make changes for the final test. Still a series to be drawn. Forget the whole ownership of trophy thing. Plus those all important points in the definitely not farcical Test championshi

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

At what time do we begin to believe again?

[Duty281]

At what time do we begin to believe again?

Need to hope the light deteriorates to the point that Australia can only bowl spin. It does genuinely look, at the moment, that there's not too long left. Dark clouds coming over.

[Gooseberry]

Who wouldve thought concussion checks would create excitement

[guildfordbat]

Whatever we may think about Root's onfield captaincy, he hasn't lost the dressing room. Great battling by his team today.

[Duty281]

Need that wretched sun to disappear behind a cloud.

[Guest]

Leach gone

[Gooseberry]

Remember when Broad used to be talked about as a proper bastman.

Theres hope

(No hope)

[Duty281]

Fantastic effort from Leach. Can Broad bat like it's 2010?

[Gooseberry]

If light runs out during the review is it a draw ?

[Duty281]

Deserved win for the Australians. Amazing effort from Overton - nearly three hours worth of fight - so slightly cruel that he was the last man to fall.

[Guest]

Deserved win for the Aussies. England have been dire from the get-go in this series, and bar Stokes’ incredible innings, haven’t once looked like winning anything.

[guildfordbat]

Wonderfully absorbing day of Test cricket. Great fight and character shown by both teams.

As Olly posted earlier, Roy's drop of Paine on day two was massively significant. Had that been taken as it should have been, Australia would have been 240 odd/6 and we would have had realistic hopes of getting them all out for under 300. As we know, that's not what happened.

[sirfredperry]

Deserved win for the Aussies. England have been dire from the get-go in this series, and bar Stokes’ incredible innings, haven’t once looked like winning anything.

Totally disagree. England were in a winning position in the first Test and let it slip, and performed well at Lord's.

Given the fact that this is, IMHO, one the weakest batting line-ups England have fielded in years, to keep the Ashes "live" into the final hour of the 4th Test was an achievement. OK, it was not a great achievement as I don't think this is an outstanding Australian side (although they have some terrific bowlers).

But compared with how England were steamrollered at home between 1989 and 2005, this was a compelling series.

[Gooseberry]

Ashes retained by one of the worst Australian sides ever. That how much England have slipped.

Bowler injuries have hit them, but the batting is just not good enough.

[KP_fan]

This Aussie side is generally superior to this Eng side and that's why I had called a 3-1 in Aus's favor at the start of series and that's where its heading to.
3-1 because its not a great & ruthless Aussie side.....so I expected them to a lose a game somewhere.

This game wasn't really hopelessly gone for Eng...if only Root or Stokes had batted out a 180 balls more between them....as they are both capable of....and that could've been increasingly possible had Eng sent a night watchman at the fall of first wicket.

Changes That Aus should make....

-Lyon is below par...probably carrying a finger injury & they don't have another spinner in the squad surprisingly
so play another seamer and use Smith and Laburschagne as part-timers

-Bring Khawaja in surely and Wade out surely.

-Maybe Mitch Marsh in but that would mean leaving an opener out...although to me that's a like medicore for like..I would rather play Khawaja in the middle and reatin Harris...and anyway my 11 has 4 seamers....so Mitch's bowling is not needed.

-Do they continue with Warner? For sure in my view....he has a HUGE upside and still some reserve in the bank.

Who is this kid Michael Neser in the squad?....is he a bowling allrounder or a batting allrounder? Maybe he plays as 4th seamer....if bowling is his main trait.

Regarding England.....

-Well no way would I leave Woakes out..
-and if Stokes ain't bowling it's easy to put Woakes and Curran in...for Overton and Roy.....bowling and batting both enhanced

-Denly creates a Hell's-Choice now.....when you know he won't make it in test cricket but logically cannot leave him out when he top-scores with a 50 and that too opening and so he gets 3 more tests.

[VTR]

Took it far closer to the draw than looked likely. Good fight shown from England in the last three Tests at certain points. Overall performances are patchy, being one down in the series feels right at this point. I still want to see them win the final Test, 2-2 is not a terrible result. I remember vs SA in 2003 that same result felt almost like a win.

[Gooseberry]

This Aussie side is generally superior to this Eng side and that's why I had called a 3-1 in Aus's favor at the start of series and that's where its heading to.
3-1 because its not a great & ruthless Aussie side.....so I expected them to a lose a game somewhere.

This game wasn't really hopelessly gone for Eng...if only Root or Stokes had batted out a 180 balls more between them....as they are both capable of....and that could've been increasingly possible had Eng sent a night watchman at the fall of first wicket.

Changes That Aus should make....

-Lyon is below par...probably carrying a finger injury & they don't have another spinner in the squad surprisingly
so play another seamer and use Smith and Laburschagne as part-timers

-Bring Khawaja in surely and Wade out surely.

-Maybe Mitch Marsh in but that would mean leaving an opener out...although to me that's a like medicore for like..I would rather play Khawaja in the middle and reatin Harris...and anyway my 11 has 4 seamers....so Mitch's bowling is not needed.

-Do they continue with Warner? For sure in my view....he has a HUGE upside and still some reserve in the bank.

Who is this kid Michael Neser in the squad?....is he a bowling allrounder or a batting allrounder? Maybe he plays as 4th seamer....if bowling is his main trait.

Regarding England.....

-Well no way would I leave Woakes out..
-and if Stokes ain't bowling it's easy to put Woakes and Curran in...for Overton and Roy.....bowling and batting both enhanced

-Denly creates a Hell's-Choice now.....when you  know he won't make it in test cricket but logically cannot leave him out when he top-scores with a 50 and that too opening and so he gets 3 more tests.

Warner is in because they are already short two openers and a number three. You cant drop everyone.

The only explanation for Woakes not playing and being underbowled is that hes been carrying an injury

To suggest that Curran or Woakes would be a better batting option that a proper test batsman up the order like Pope is silly. But if Stokes' injury is that bad they might be forced to picktheir seamers based on batting or risk overbowling Archer (again). Conditions dependant I dont see any evidence that Curran would be a more effective bowler than Overton, he was just picked for and told to bowl for a pitch that didnt exist. It was an appalling mistake by the England leadership, its Roots home county ground FFS.

Denly gets one more test, that might still mean Sibley gets a debut. He surely has to play in the winter.

Lyon...the theory is hes too predictable when the pitch is offering consistent spin. Boycott was very vocal on this, he very reliant on a few stock balls and wasnt willing to vary his pace or flight. It wasnt great for either spinner in that game.

Its ridiculous that Aus have got away with only having 4 bowlers the whole series whilst Englands have been dropping like flies. But thats a thing. They will continue with the same make up Im sure. The could make a change in the batting but I'm not sure they'll bother. Then were comprehensively the better side in this test.

[JDizzle]

This Aussie side is generally superior to this Eng side and that's why I had called a 3-1 in Aus's favor at the start of series and that's where its heading to.
3-1 because its not a great & ruthless Aussie side.....so I expected them to a lose a game somewhere.

This game wasn't really hopelessly gone for Eng...if only Root or Stokes had batted out a 180 balls more between them....as they are both capable of....and that could've been increasingly possible had Eng sent a night watchman at the fall of first wicket.

Changes That Aus should make....

-Lyon is below par...probably carrying a finger injury & they don't have another spinner in the squad surprisingly
so play another seamer and use Smith and Laburschagne as part-timers

-Bring Khawaja in surely and Wade out surely.

-Maybe Mitch Marsh in but that would mean leaving an opener out...although to me that's a like medicore for like..I would rather play Khawaja in the middle and reatin Harris...and anyway my 11 has 4 seamers....so Mitch's bowling is not needed.

-Do they continue with Warner? For sure in my view....he has a HUGE upside and still some reserve in the bank.

Who is this kid Michael Neser in the squad?....is he a bowling allrounder or a batting allrounder? Maybe he plays as 4th seamer....if bowling is his main trait.

Regarding England.....

-Well no way would I leave Woakes out..
-and if Stokes ain't bowling it's easy to put Woakes and Curran in...for Overton and Roy.....bowling and batting both enhanced

-Denly creates a Hell's-Choice now.....when you  know he won't make it in test cricket but logically cannot leave him out when he top-scores with a 50 and that too opening and so he gets 3 more tests.

Warner is in because they are already short two openers and a number three. You cant drop everyone.

The only explanation for Woakes not playing and being underbowled is that hes been carrying an injury

To suggest that Curran or Woakes would be a better batting option that a proper test batsman up the order like Pope is silly. But if Stokes' injury is that bad they might be forced to picktheir seamers based on batting or risk overbowling Archer (again). Conditions dependant I dont see any evidence that Curran would be a more effective bowler than Overton, he was just picked for and told to bowl for a pitch that didnt exist. It was an appalling mistake by the England leadership, its Roots home county ground FFS.

Denly gets one more test, that might still mean Sibley gets a debut. He surely has to play in the winter.

Lyon...the theory is hes too predictable when the pitch is offering consistent spin. Boycott was very vocal on this, he very reliant on a few stock balls and wasnt willing to vary his pace or flight. It wasnt great for either spinner in that game.

Its ridiculous that Aus have got away with only having 4 bowlers the whole series whilst Englands have been dropping like flies. But thats a thing. They will continue with the same make up Im sure. The could make a change in the batting but I'm not sure they'll bother. Then were comprehensively the better side in this test.

When are you letting him know he’s been signed by Lancashire?

[guildfordbat]

...

I have feeling though that there is a slight chance of Eng escaping with a draw.....if Lyon doesn't find his rhythm. The 3 Aussie  pacers are one better than the 2 that Eng has......BUT Lyon is the key...if he doesn't pluck out at least 3 tomm.....Eng on the back of Stokes, Butler and Bairstow with the doughty lower  order will see it through with one or two wickets in hand. ...

KP_f - you appear to have missed this bit out when telling us what you told us last night.

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