England's Winter

First topic message reminder :

As per LT's original post:
New Zealand

T20 Internationals

Friday November 1st - Christchurch
Sunday November 3rd - Wellington
Tuesday November 5th - Nelson
Friday November 8th - Napier
Sunday November 10th - Auckland

Squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) captain
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Tom Banton (Somerset)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Pat Brown (Worcestershire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Lewis Gregory (Somerset)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)


Tests

Wednesday November 20th - Tauranga
Thursday November 28th - Hamilton

Squad
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Jofra Archer (Sussex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Zak Crawley (Kent)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Matthew Parkinson (Lancashire)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Dominic Sibley (Warwickshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)



South Africa

Tests

Thursday 26th December - Centurion
Friday January 3rd - Cape Town
Thursday January 16th - Port Elizabeth
Friday January 24th - Johannesburg

Squad
Ill


ODI
Tuesday 4th February - Cape Town
Friday 7th February - Durban
Sunday 9th February - Johannesburg

Squad
Ill

T20 Internationals

Wednesday 12th February - East London
Friday 14th February - Durban
Sunday 16th February - Centurion


Sri Lanka

March 7th - Warm up 1, Katunayake (3 day)
March 12th - Warm up 2, Colombo (3 day)
March 19th - 1st Test, Galle
March 27th - 2nd Test, Colombo

For home tests sure but with the kookabura do you honestly think Curran is the better bowling option? It does presupposes everyone's fit of course. With stokes "managed" and Archer looking like hed be a borderline call if they did pick him it's just not worth the risk here. For sri Lanka it would be a very brave call to go with the quick pair, even if they are Englands best hope of doing something without thei senior spin bowlers. But looking at trips to places like australia and india having teo bowlers who can regularly top 90 would be a huge plus.
It's highly unlikely of course that wood will stay fit long enough for this to be anything more than a thought exercise but after somenofnrhe issues England have had abroad in recent years even against poor sides like the west indies I can see why Root would be keen to have them both in the team. Not everyone is going to ship 10 wickets to Root and Bess in a game.

Apparently Root thinks England are on track to become world number one now. It's great to have ambition but they havent yet win the series, and havent won one for 15 months. Its several years of consistent winning away, and I cant imagine even the lost ardent England lover believes this squad is as good as Indias, and Australia have been dominating sides even more than England have SA in the past two games.

Theres speculation that England are banking on Leach being fit for Sri Lanka now and just playing him and Bess as spinners with the back up from Root and Denly. Again this might be a bit of overreaction from the last test, I dont see Bess as a regular 5 for taker and noone can believe Root should ever be a 4 wicket bowler. But it would enable them to play Archer Stokes and Wood together and have a barrage of genuine pace which might be a bit more effective than the medium pace they had last time.

Seems Archer was bowling with good pace at nets yesterday - but will need to not show fitness again today before being considered for the next test.

Wood also described as "sore" after the 3rd test, and will need to prove himself at training.

Dobell seems to think that Archer for Wood will be the only change providing Archer's elbow doesn't pull up lame, citing Wood's "soreness" as "ominous" in his recent article. Would be fair, Wood hasn't played back to back tests since 2017 and that last game was his first cricket of any sort since the World Cup, let alone a first class game.

Rumours from the South African camp are that Hendricks will replace Rabada, with Bavuma in for Hamza and potentially Keegan Peterson in for Van Der Dussen

Bavuma for Hamza seems like a waste of time, neither are good enough for test cricket.

I reckon Root would love to have a fully fit Archer and Wood in the side together for this but do agree its going to come down to who is the least sore. Having both if they are struggling to last 5 days is a recipe for disaster. 
This also all makes sense of why Root persisted with spin so long against the SA tail, a desperation to not bowl the seamers any more than he had to on the final day. 
How utterly toothless and the level of tap Curran took, as he has a number of times before, bowling medium pace without Broads range of skills when theres little help from the ball shows the issue with him as a bowler overseas. the left arm option is a nice to have, but sometimes they need to x factor of a Stokes Wood Archer (or root  ) to get it up South Africa when the pitch is benign. 
We havent yet seen the sort of raging green top that led to some absolute shoot out 3 day games in many previous series in SA over the past few years and no indication that this one will be any different to the rest of the series. The biggest threat to England is their quick not lasting and the rest of the attack lacking bite. 
SA have a similar problem though. With Rababda out and Ngidi still not fit they are struggling for bowlers (and representation). 
Which segways nicely to Bavuma. Hes been told hes getting a run in the ODI squad, possibly as a bit of a sop, and any issues with Faf can be side stepped as hes being "rested" from that format and de kock captaining. Hes also just hit a 180 in a first class match, which has led his twitter followers into absolute meltdown over Fafs form and in their minds made him the greatest living test batsman. But who does he come in for? The worst performers are Faf ( not quitting, wont be dropped) and Hamza who bats 3. Not sure how they shuffle the deckchairs on that basis but Hamza has been awful. 
Rudi second is the other batsman whos actually in the squad. He usually bats 4, so again not easy to see how he replaces Hamza without creating new problems. 
Bolwer options to replace Rabada in the squad are the two all rounders or an uncapped left armer Hendricks. hes not quite got the pace and aggression that Rabada has.
Nortje has bowled more overs than anyone except Broad (many of those were his slower leg cutters) in this series (90), so has all the excuses to be fatigued. 

SAs problems are bigger than Englands.

Soul Requiem wrote:Bavuma for Hamza seems like a waste of time, neither are good enough for test cricket.

Is that confirmed? Id kind of assumed it was going to happen but havent seen a report it is yet. 

A bit hyperbolic, you kind of have to pick someone and the representation issue isn't seen as a waste of time. But i do agree its not going to solve any big issues for SA. Hamza has been awful but looking at England 6 months ago its all well and good dropping your 3 for a 6 but whos gonna go up the order? That woudlve been true of whoever they bought into the side, with their other top order batsman injured they are already dipping into the reserves. 
Bauma did hit 180 in his last first class innings and will be coming back with a point to prove, no lack of focus thats for sure. I do agree that hes never going to be a top class batsman, but if hes ever going to do a job for SA then this is the time. 
Ultimately someone has to play, its the same situation that sees Joe Denly getting an extended run for England. Hes pretty rubbish but compared to whats gone before him hes a step forward. I was flabergasted when he actually got put in the squad let alone started for a test, but in fairness hes done OK. 
SA are scraping the barrel because their just isnt enough quality coming through and they have injuries.

First day of the test on Friday looks like being decimated by rain, but the next four days look absolutely fine. The ICC will be delighted.

Fair to say Bavuma has not torn down any trees in his Test career to date...but he has played the odd good innings and he is coming off a pretty handy (180) in the first class game so probably offers more than Hamza (who really looks shot at present). Some suggestion both he and Petersen might come in - meaning van der Dussen would also be a casualty. Think that would be a bit rough on Dussie despite his poor efforts against spin in the latest game but would allow both to bat in their preferred spots.
As to the bowling obviously Hendricks replaces Rabada but I think I would also substitute Phehlukwayo for Paterson...helps the batting and avoids any confusion with the number three bat

And as for England I was just a little concerned at the suggestion they might have to "find a place " for Archer (even at the cost of balance in the attack ?) but am now seeing hints that they are actually looking to choose between him and Wood ...whichever is the least injured ? At least it keeps variety in the attack. But seriously if neither are 100% I reckon Woakes would do at job at the Wanderers...
Can't see any other changes. Arguably Buttler could do with a break as he seems out of sorts with bat and gloves but I don't expect them to make that move this week.
I remain anxious about this game. All the signs say England should be odds on favorites but that is rarely a cause for relaxation and I hope they don't go in thinking they have but to turn up to win. Only takes one bad session and things can go badly awry...and it has happened once or twice lately. Will be watching with crossed fingers...

Archer or Wood at the moment seems the sensible way to go, playing both alongside Stokes is just asking for disaster, Archer at 80% looks a better bet to take wickets than Woakes personally who for whatever reason just cannot perform outside of England.

I've long been an advocate of having Foakes in the team, when you have three options none of whom are performing with the bat you go with the best available wicketkeeper and that's not really up for debate, if I were Dom Bess I'd be far more confident with him in the team.

Faf confirms Bavuma in for Hamza. Still to decide who replaces Rabada and any other changes

Theres a very good article on cricinfo about how Buttlers been used and broken since his recall backed up by sine quotes from himself. Essentially hes a good batsman when allowed to just hit the ball and not care, but when shouldered with the responsibility of batting up the order it shepherding the tail in a difficult spot struggles. A large number of outs were from defensive steokes and leaves. On top of that hes been overloaded from being a three format player and keeper in all.
Honestly think giving Foakes the gloves in Sri Lanka again makes sense on all levels. Bairstow might argue otherwise but theres nothing hes done to deserve another recall. Buttler needs to be managed and Foakes brings more to the table in keeping.

Meanwhile, England U19s are out of the World Cup after doing the exact same thing that the senior England side did in 2003 - losing to Australia after having victory all sewn up.

Australia needed 40 to win off three overs with just two wickets remaining (no set batsmen at the crease), and a combination of power hitting and poor death bowling got them over the line on the very last ball.

KP has come out with some usual nonsense, apparently Archer is being marginalised in the dressing room because he's from the Caribbean just like he was for being from South Africa.

Dobell’a report from nets today was that Archer looked back to full fitness, and Wood spent time with the doctor/physio post spell, and is a “doubt” for the test.

Surface is going to be spicy too apparently

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Dobell’a report from nets today was that Archer looked back to full fitness, and Wood spent time with the doctor/physio post spell, and is a “doubt” for the test.

Surface is going to be spicy too apparently

With Rabada suspended and SA needing a result it was always likely to be a spicy pitch.

I just hope England haven't seen the pitch, responded by trying to force Archer and Wood into the same side if they aren't fully fit.

Good way of making sure Philander goes out on a bang too. Hes been pretty anonymous since winning the first test for SA. Could be a good advert for 4 day tests after all

Pointless stat of the day, according to Cricinfo - England will cross half a million test runs in this upcoming game should they make 186 or greater, the first side to ever do this in test cricket. Beating Australia to that milestone by virtue of playing more games.

England available at 10/11 to win this test - excellent price. England aren’t losing this one (unless they do and I’ll be horribly embarrassed).

Gooseberry wrote:Theres a very good article on cricinfo about how Buttlers been used and broken since his recall backed up by sine quotes from himself. Essentially hes a good batsman when allowed to just hit the ball and not care, but when shouldered with the responsibility of batting up the order it shepherding the tail in a difficult spot struggles. A large number of outs were from defensive steokes and leaves. On top of that hes been overloaded from being a three format player and keeper in  all.
Honestly think giving Foakes the gloves in Sri Lanka again makes sense on all levels. Bairstow might argue otherwise but theres nothing hes done to deserve another recall. Buttler needs to be managed and Foakes brings more to the table in keeping.

Well I read the article but I'm not sure I would rate it "good". Rather negative , actually.  I mean  : if Buttler can't bat in the top six , can't keep wicket and bat , and can't bat effectively with the tail then what is there to "manage" ?   Indeed why would you bother ?

I do think Foakes will probably keep in Sri Lanka, despite his poor form in the summer and lack of any recent meaningful cricket.  I worry though that this sort of desperate need to keep Buttler employed might then lead to Pope being prematurely shoved up the order to make room...

So the word is England will drop their spinner ?  Hmm.  When did they last win a Test Match without one ?  Or has Root now been upgraded to a first rank spin bowler as a result of the second innings in PE...

Ah , sorry : I am coming across as a bit negative. Just anxiety at all the chest pumping confidence going into this match I guess...am suspicious that England will find some "clever" way to come unstuck. Shouldn't fret , really : Silverwood does seem to have had a calming effect recently and there is no reason to believe the wheels are likely to detach this week.

But I would prefer they don't just go nuts on "pace and bounce" , and keep maximum variety in the attack. It tends to work best for them , I think.

Makes some level of sense but my concern is that England are god awful at reading pitches, root will bowl first and it turns out to be a bunsen.

Good point regarding foakes' form...he had effectively taken himself out of the equation this summer. I still think it makes sense to rotate Buttler out for Sri Lanka as others do.

All academic today it seems ...looks like the players will only be playing cards in the dressing room.
If they still play cards , that is.
At least we will get a four day Test ...a useful sample for the Evil ICC Plot to reduce all matches to the shorter length

Another days rest for Wood and Archer, and more spice added to the surface.

I think with the forecast set the way it is, I’d drop Bess and play the all seam attack. Doesn’t seem like there will be much for a spinner that Root can’t cover for this one

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Another days rest for Wood and Archer, and more spice added to the surface.

I think with the forecast set the way it is, I’d drop Bess and play the all seam attack. Doesn’t seem like there will be much for a spinner that Root can’t cover for this one

...or much need for 5 seamers 

Unless 3 of them are carrying injuries and anothers over 34 and already bowled nearly 100 overs in the series . And the others about as threatening as a currant bun.

Gooseberry wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Another days rest for Wood and Archer, and more spice added to the surface.

I think with the forecast set the way it is, I’d drop Bess and play the all seam attack. Doesn’t seem like there will be much for a spinner that Root can’t cover for this one

...or much need for 5 seamers 

Unless 3 of them are carrying injuries and anothers over 34 and already bowled nearly 100 overs in the series . And the others about as threatening as a currant bun.

I like what you did there Goose.

Rain isn’t unexpected for today, but we might still see some play later today. Next four days look pretty good so there should be a positive result from this game.

More disturbing is that Joel Wilson is one of the umpires for this one!

Soul Requiem wrote:KP has come out with some usual nonsense, apparently Archer is being marginalised in the dressing room because he's from the Caribbean just like he was for being from South Africa.

More racial stereotyping from Root on the BBC talking about Archers "big part" in the dressing room.

Duty281 wrote:Rain isn’t unexpected for today, but we might still see some play later today. Next four days look pretty good so there should be a positive result from this game.

More disturbing is that Joel Wilson is one of the umpires for this one!

The presence of Joel Wilson should at least ensure drs is gainfully employed throughout. And if the batting teams use their reviews carelessly might help to manage an early finish...

Sounds like they’re hopeful of a start in 70 minutes, presuming no more rain.

A day when Root can elect to bowl, should he win the toss?

Duty281 wrote:Sounds like they’re hopeful of a start in 70 minutes, presuming no more rain.

A day when Root can elect to bowl, should he win the toss?

Surely Root is due to lose a toss ? I never take "start in 70 minutes" predictions too seriously...but I guess that projected start is -annoyingly - too early to give up and turn in for the night so will have to wait in hope.

All seam attack ...send SA in ...sound familiar ? Hopefully a better outcome if it happens...

Duty281 wrote:Sounds like they’re hopeful of a start in 70 minutes, presuming no more rain.

A day when Root can elect to bowl, should he win the toss?

You'd think bowling first would be the way both captains go - and wouldn't be surprised if both go with all seam attacks too...Pollack floated that possibility as quite a realistic one for SA during the last test, and the weather surely only adds to that theory

Reports from journos at the ground is Archer ISN'T playing

Yes, Root is due to lose a toss and Faf is well overdue to win one!

As Olly indicates, sounds like Archer isn’t fit and Wood (possibly, maybe) is and can make it two tests in a row?

Duty281 wrote:Yes, Root is due to lose a toss and Faf is well overdue to win one!

As Olly indicates, sounds like Archer isn’t fit and Wood (possibly, maybe) is and can make it two tests in a row?

We'll find out more in the coming hours, but sounds like Archer might have done himself some damage, or suffered a setback in the warm up net this morning? Would be a great shame if so (WHY DO THEY WARM UP PLAYING CRICKET )

So with no Archer, the call is whether Woakes comes in for Bess.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Sounds like they’re hopeful of a start in 70 minutes, presuming no more rain.

A day when Root can elect to bowl, should he win the toss?

You'd think bowling first would be the way both captains go - and wouldn't be surprised if both go with all seam attacks too...Pollack floated that possibility as quite a realistic one for SA during the last test, and the weather surely only adds to that theory

Do they have enough seamers who deserve a place? After Hendricks it's just the two all rounders, and maharaj looked as good with the bat as them.

As for archer...FFS

Having looked at the pitch, it seems like a right 50-50 call on whether to bat or bowl first. Some cracks expected to open up on the pitch later on, which aids the bat first argument and for Bess to start.

Just bat first. Seriously.

Root wins the toss again, what a lad, and England are batting first with no Archer or Bess.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Sounds like they’re hopeful of a start in 70 minutes, presuming no more rain.

A day when Root can elect to bowl, should he win the toss?

You'd think bowling first would be the way both captains go - and wouldn't be surprised if both go with all seam attacks too...Pollack floated that possibility as quite a realistic one for SA during the last test, and the weather surely only adds to that theory

And as suggested - both sides go in without a spinner. Woakes comes in for Bess, and the SA changes are Bavuma for Hamza, Pretorious for Maharaj and Hendricks for Rabada

Hmm. Both sides spin-free. We will see.

First few overs haven't screamed pace paradise... Might have been a good toss to win.

Woakes in - doesn't surprise me , always doubted Archer would make the start line ; though I expected him to replace Wood if the latter was also indisposed. Think they might need Wood later so hopefully
his "tiredness" is overcome...

Not sure SA with a bunch of medium pacers apart from Nortje are going to be too threatening.

England bat first. After the way the first 3 tests planned out feels like a no brainer even if it's like Trent Bridge on a wet day.

Sibley given out leg side catch but doesn't look right to me...review :

Overturned. Thought so.

Joel Wilson!

Umpire Wilson at his best.

Watchful, patient start from the England openers. Not much consistency from the new ball bowlers.

How is Joel Wilson still an umpire?

Crawley playing some attractive strokes ... He has a positive approach which complements Sibley's rather more pedestrian style ; if he can turn bright starts into something more substantial he will create some options when Burns is available again.

Really doesn't look like a bowl first pitch to me. Doesn't look like a seam only one either...

alfie wrote:Crawley playing some attractive strokes ... He has a positive approach which complements Sibley's rather more pedestrian style ; if he can turn bright starts into something more substantial he will create some options when Burns is available again.

Really doesn't look like a bowl first pitch to me.  Doesn't look like a seam only one either...

Burns
Sibley
Crawley

Perhaps? I do like the look of young Zak, he's got good shot making ability that's for sure just needs to tighten up his defence and learn to rotate the strike a bit better when he gets bogged down.

What a start! Wasnt expecting this ...good call on the toss

Soul Requiem wrote:

alfie wrote:Crawley playing some attractive strokes ... He has a positive approach which complements Sibley's rather more pedestrian style ; if he can turn bright starts into something more substantial he will create some options when Burns is available again.

Really doesn't look like a bowl first pitch to me.  Doesn't look like a seam only one either...

Burns
Sibley
Crawley

Perhaps? I do like the look of young Zak, he's got good shot making ability that's for sure just needs to tighten up his defence and learn to rotate the strike a bit better when he gets bogged down.

Longer term sure but Denly is sure fire for Sri Lanka for his experience and bowling option. Crawleys exceeded expectation so far but still very raw