ENGLAND v WALES - Match Thread / Build up - 7/3/2020

[TightHEAD]

First topic message reminder :

England    v Wales    - 07/03/2020 - 16:45pm - the HOME of Rugby.

England XV

Daly; Watson, Tuilagi, Farrell, May; Ford, Youngs; Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Wilson, Curry

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Ewels, Earl, Heinz, Slade

Wales XV

Halfpenny; North, Tompkins, Parkes, Williams; Biggar, T Williams; R Evans, Owens, D Lewis, Ball, AW Jones (capt), Moriarty, Navidi, Tipuric.

Replacements: Elias, Carre, L Brown, Shingler, Faletau, Webb, J Evans, McNicholl.


Overall - Played 134 - Eng 63 - Wales 59 - Drawn 12

[SecretFly]

Yes and no Fly

I don't think it would have been viewed as mitigation if AWJ had clocked him and they had rolled the csmeras back to see the provocation.

From time and memorial, retaliation has always been seen as being worse than the crime ans so he would still hsve walked.

The real question would be, the ref having noted what Marler did, would he have walked with him?

Time and memorial is the operative part there, Gee.  Times and attitudes have certainly pushed ahead in recent years.

But my point was not so much that AWJ might have escaped a red but that witnessing the provocation, I think the ref would be forced to show a red to Marler too.  So an AWJ punch would have made Marler's feeler stunt Judgeable.... with audience watching.   Marler getting an all clear from a ref under those circumstances would have been a Major incident in media talking farms.

And indeed, I do actually think AWJ might have escaped a red with one instinctive trigger punch.  Yellow perhaps.

Anyway, I do think bans and column inches aren't required for these ancient old rugby stunts, but sometimes a warning punch teaches a smart ass player more than a ban would anyway.  I'm old fashioned.  Don't touch or pain follows.

[Soul Requiem]

If that's a red card then Rugby has gone soft beyond the point of no return, the tip on Curry however continues to go unmentioned.

[SecretFly]

If that's a red card then Rugby has gone soft beyond the point of no return.

The prospective punch or the actual feel?

[Soul Requiem]

If that's a red card then Rugby has gone soft beyond the point of no return.

The prospective punch or the actual feel?

Neither, Tuilagi.

[SecretFly]

If that's a red card then Rugby has gone soft beyond the point of no return.

The prospective punch or the actual feel?

Neither, Tuilagi.

Ref went through the rule book verbally though and...... he's constrained by actions rather than presumed intent. Thought he had a very good game of clinical reffing. He's human, will make errors but he'll be picking up more big games.

[mikey_dragon]

I see Eddie Jones went back to being Eddie the idiot right after the game. He’s a silly little man.

[formerly known as Sam]

What started the fracass with AWJ and Marler in the first place?

Farrell took offence to something and shoved North at the bottom of the ruck. Some of the Welsh players were unhappy with the forced knock on close to the line. Basically a big fuss over nothing. AWJ was at the centre pointing, pushing and shouting. Apparently he didn't appreciate Marler's cheeky tweak. I don't know if Marler was hoping AWJ would lose his temper completely and swing for him though any punch would have been reviewed and the nut nudge would have been found so that wouldn't have been a good tactic.

Cheeky tweak?  Nut nudge?

How endearing.

To be fair, it’s not a great summary aside from that anyway. Farrell didn’t take offence to something, he reacted unsportingly to North losing the ball over the line.

Yes because people normally react angrily to winning a turnover right in front of their try line. As Collapse points out it was Lawes elbow making contact. Farrell obviously mistook it for North and took exception. In those pile ups there's always something and it's not always easy to realise who did it.

I remember someone standing on my back in the middle of a ruck and grabbing who I thought was the culprit to exchange some pleasantries. Whilst he and a couple of his teammates disagreed with me my team scored. As we walked back for the restart my flanker was looking slightly sheepish and told me I'd been collateral damage.

[SecretFly]

I remember someone standing on my back in the middle of a ruck and grabbing who I thought was the culprit to exchange some pleasantries. Whilst he and a couple of his teammates disagreed with me my team scored. As we walked back for the restart my flanker was looking slightly sheepish and told me I'd been collateral damage.

Retrospective Red card for you and your sheepish pal, m'lad. And a six year ban from 606 - to ease the shock of the retrospective red.....

[formerly known as Sam]

I remember someone standing on my back in the middle of a ruck and grabbing who I thought was the culprit to exchange some pleasantries. Whilst he and a couple of his teammates disagreed with me my team scored. As we walked back for the restart my flanker was looking slightly sheepish and told me I'd been collateral damage.

Retrospective Red card for you and your sheepish pal, m'lad.  And a six year ban from 606 - to ease the shock of the retrospective red.....

I think you'll find my ire did not break any of the laws of the game. My friend well, wouldn't have been his first card.

[Guest]

Marler is gay, or a little bit at least

He squeezes sausage

No problem with that eh it’s 2020 good on the lad

[Rugby Fan]

Strange match in lots of ways. England have been good value for the three wins in the tournament, and some individual players have put in impressive shifts, but we haven't put teams away in the manner the good parts of our game suggest we should.

We've got no divine right to be blowing teams away. Wales almost derailed Jones' first season with a comeback, so it's not as if we shouldn't expect it.

[Guest]

blah blah

[Guest]

Blah blah

[Heaf]

These are the laws for people wanting to follow through whether it's right or wrong as there does appear to be some guesswork!

https://laws.worldrugby.org/en/guidelines

Under mitigation.

"Head contact is indirect (starts elsewhere on the body and then slips or moves up resulting in minor contact to the BC’s head or neck)"

I still hold initial contact is arm on shoulder. So mitigation in my eyes. Difficult for the ref when he can't see the images. From the description the TMO gives the ref the ref has absolutely no choice but to go for red.

Arms are out pre contact. Watching it again this morning Manu almost pulls them away as he tries to go past the dipping player. He should no better as once committed trying to pull out late is more dangerous than just following through with the tackle.

That's pretty much how I saw it at the time too - looked to me he like started to reach out with his arms to where North would have been had he not been tackled and then tried to pull out - I also don't think initial contact was with the head but that TMO has always been a bit one-eyed IMO.

Also if he hadn't tried to pull out and continued to wrap after North suddenly dropped in front of him he'd probably have ended up clothes-lining North which would have been worse.

[Guest]

Blah blah

[Yoda]

If that's a red card then Rugby has gone soft beyond the point of no return, the tip on Curry however continues to go unmentioned.

Spot on tipped over on his head right in front of the ref and tmo didn't even review, plus the dillon Lewis no arms tackle on their 5m line no attempt to wrap arms. All this self righteous stuff saying England are dirty etc by certain posters is myopia of the worst kind. Initial contact from tuilagi was on north's shoulder not head. If tuilagi was a red then so was parks flying head butt. I'm pretty sure tuilagi got two head shots in close succession. Youngs clocked a good one too which should have been reviewed and card shown if the refs were consistent. You can't just see the oppositions misdemeanours then declare they are the dirtiest team and should be banned. Still game is done lots of off the ball stuff and luckily no one got hurt.

[Heaf]

Marler's not the sharpest tool in the box is he - excuse my wording

[Yoda]

What about Marler’s pinch of the purple head?

Red card?

Gave the under carriage a tickle no grab for me. Perhaps he's trying to get some media work. Perhaps working for the post code lottery, 'someone's knocking on your door, someone's ringing your bell'

I'll get my coat

[king_carlos]

Yes and no Fly

I don't think it would have been viewed as mitigation if AWJ had clocked him and they had rolled the csmeras back to see the provocation.

From time and memorial, retaliation has always been seen as being worse than the crime ans so he would still hsve walked.

The real question would be, the ref having noted what Marler did, would he have walked with him?

If the argument for citing is where Marler pinched AWJ then I do get the argument. There are clear parameters for citing players for grabbing the testicles and for unsportsmanlike play. I could have seen Marler getting a yellow had AWJ clocked him.

I don't agree with the 'it's wrong because if AWJ reacted then he'd be red carded' argument as AWJ is one of the best exponents of winding up opposition players in the game. It's been a constant part of his game for his career and something that he clearly revels in given how frequently he does it.

I also don't think this incident is a reasonable means for starting a discussion about work place sexual assault as many on social media have tried to do. Yes if Marler had done that in an office he'd be in deep water. So would Hadleigh Parkes if he went to work in an office carrying a rugby ball and preceded to run flat over the top of Tim from IT. Taking something that far out of context doesn't help the discussion.

As a business owner in hospitality I am fully aware of how rife work place sexual misconduct is and how necessary that discussion is. The gateway to that discussion is opening our eyes to what goes on in our workplaces every day though. Not by decontextualising a single moment from a sport in which 30 superhuman athletes kick the proverbial out of each other for 80 minutes.

[Guest]

King_Carlos, you’ve given me a great idea for work tomorrow - a full speed no arms Tuilagi-style shoulder charge on my boss just as she’s walking down the corridor swigging her gingerbread latte! I’ll just say I learnt it off the tele box!

[SecretFly]

King_Carlos, you’ve given me a great idea for work tomorrow - a full speed no arms Tuilagi-style shoulder charge on my boss just as she’s walking down the corridor swigging her gingerbread latte! I’ll just say I learnt it off the tele box!

Good man! Promoting the Rugby Union code in the workplace. It falls under the Diversity Pro-Active Activeism in Sport agenda of the UN Equality Energising Expressive Education Enterprise (EEEEE)

.... and if your boss complains, tell her she's bordering on infringing your human rights. And remind her it's either the Tuilagi Tornado or the Marler Marble Massage - her choice.

[tigertattie]

I approached our HR team for a new job I felt would benefit the company.

I was poopooed

https://youtu.be/Kg5cdZ-Fnpc

I still think it’s an avenue worth investigating

[Guest]

That diatribe by Miaow above is possibly the most one-eyed reading of a game I’ve ever had the misfortune to read.

It would be better to sober up and, perhaps l, show a little grace in defeat.

Yes.

I enjoyed watching the game at the pub with friends. The pub was about a third full of English fans. I bought 4 pints after the game for a group we were chatting to throughout.

How did you show grace in defeat? Did you even enjoy the game sat staring at your phone?

Liar.

5am?

Wow.

[Guest]

Lives in Canada I believe.

[RiscaGame]

What started the fracass with AWJ and Marler in the first place?

Farrell took offence to something and shoved North at the bottom of the ruck. Some of the Welsh players were unhappy with the forced knock on close to the line. Basically a big fuss over nothing. AWJ was at the centre pointing, pushing and shouting. Apparently he didn't appreciate Marler's cheeky tweak. I don't know if Marler was hoping AWJ would lose his temper completely and swing for him though any punch would have been reviewed and the nut nudge would have been found so that wouldn't have been a good tactic.

Cheeky tweak?  Nut nudge?

How endearing.

To be fair, it’s not a great summary aside from that anyway. Farrell didn’t take offence to something, he reacted unsportingly to North losing the ball over the line.

Yes because people normally react angrily to winning a turnover right in front of their try line. As Collapse points out it was Lawes elbow making contact. Farrell obviously mistook it for North and took exception. In those pile ups there's always something and it's not always easy to realise who did it.

I remember someone standing on my back in the middle of a ruck and grabbing who I thought was the culprit to exchange some pleasantries. Whilst he and a couple of his teammates disagreed with me my team scored. As we walked back for the restart my flanker was looking slightly sheepish and told me I'd been collateral damage.

How could Farrell possibly think Lawes glancing his head on the way past, was North? North was under him, for one. I suggested he was over celebrating North spilling the ball, not reacting angrily.

[Guest]

Lives in Canada I believe.

Well that explains some things, if not all.

[mikey_dragon]

Lives in Canada I believe.

Not any more. And not sure why that silly little person was mentioning the time as if it’s relevant? Miaow will post anything to get the last word in, how childish.

[formerly known as Sam]

What started the fracass with AWJ and Marler in the first place?

Farrell took offence to something and shoved North at the bottom of the ruck. Some of the Welsh players were unhappy with the forced knock on close to the line. Basically a big fuss over nothing. AWJ was at the centre pointing, pushing and shouting. Apparently he didn't appreciate Marler's cheeky tweak. I don't know if Marler was hoping AWJ would lose his temper completely and swing for him though any punch would have been reviewed and the nut nudge would have been found so that wouldn't have been a good tactic.

Cheeky tweak?  Nut nudge?

How endearing.

To be fair, it’s not a great summary aside from that anyway. Farrell didn’t take offence to something, he reacted unsportingly to North losing the ball over the line.

Yes because people normally react angrily to winning a turnover right in front of their try line. As Collapse points out it was Lawes elbow making contact. Farrell obviously mistook it for North and took exception. In those pile ups there's always something and it's not always easy to realise who did it.

I remember someone standing on my back in the middle of a ruck and grabbing who I thought was the culprit to exchange some pleasantries. Whilst he and a couple of his teammates disagreed with me my team scored. As we walked back for the restart my flanker was looking slightly sheepish and told me I'd been collateral damage.

How could Farrell possibly think Lawes glancing his head on the way past, was North? North was under him, for one. I suggested he was over celebrating North spilling the ball, not reacting angrily.

Tangle of bodies he'll have had no idea who and where. He just petulantly went for the closest Welsh shirt. It wasn't exactly a well thought and logical reaction was it. He felt a glancing blow to the head and assumed foul play. He was amongst several that were too amped up for the game as seen by the mass pile in after.

[Guest]

Lives in Canada I believe.

Not any more. And not sure why that silly little person was mentioning the time as if it’s relevant?

You should spend your (early) Sunday mornings doing something more productive. Like sleeping.

[Guest]

Well looks like England have now won another title under Eddie Jones as France implode.

[Dirtydave]

How do you figure an England win? They aren't playing again, and will only get 2 points v Italy...

[No 7&1/2]

The match against italy has been postponed not cancelled.

[Guest]

We'll have to wait and see Dave. I would think because it's a title for either England on France on the line and not Italy like in the world cup a bit more effort will be made to play those games.

[mikey_dragon]

Lives in Canada I believe.

Not any more. And not sure why that silly little person was mentioning the time as if it’s relevant?

You should spend your (early) Sunday mornings doing something more productive. Like sleeping.

More child-like attempts by pathetic miaow to get the last word in. Here, have your 5 mins of fame! Now you can stop following me around like a bad stench.

[Dirtydave]

Ah, they'll just pop them in June? No obviously, July summer, oh no there are tours... what about Nov....

They aren't going to be played, we all know it

[formerly known as Sam]

How do you figure an England win? They aren't playing again, and will only get 2 points v Italy...

Only if the games isn't played. They are postponed instead of being played behind closed doors in an attempt to help out the Italy union and the local economy who are missing out on two capacity games.

[No 7&1/2]

They managed to rearrange the ireland game so I would imagine if the title is on the line they will find space else just write off this year with no winner.

[Guest]

Lives in Canada I believe.

Not any more. And not sure why that silly little person was mentioning the time as if it’s relevant?

You should spend your (early) Sunday mornings doing something more productive. Like sleeping.

More child-like attempts by pathetic miaow to get the last word in. Here, have your 5 mins of fame! Now you can stop following me around like a bad stench.

All these insults are great. I'm not sure how miaow might feel if they ever come back and read this thread but I think it's quite amusing, really. Once you give up any expectation of normal behaviour from people like you it's quite a spectacle. I think the Americans call it a 'dumpster fire'. I like that phrase definitely applies here.

[Guest]

Ah, they'll just pop them in June? No obviously, July summer, oh no there are tours... what about Nov....

They aren't going to be played, we all know it

I don't think we all know it, do we? You have at least a few people thinking they'll be played.

June seems most reasonable to me. A few weeks after the finals and before the tours. Also viruses are weak in the summer so it would be the safest time as well. I cannot see it being played next season so it will have to happen in the 'off season'.

[Dirtydave]

That's probably likely, writing off the year, especially the way the virus is burning through both england and France, I think the ireland france game stands little chance imho

[mikey_dragon]

You are here miaow. Not only are you identical you continue to respond to miaow. The behaviour is pathetic and you haven’t fooled anyone. Clown

[No 7&1/2]

Very unlikely for the tournament not to be finished I'd say.

[Guest]

You are here miaow. Not only are you identical you continue to respond to miaow. The behaviour is pathetic and you haven’t fooled anyone. Clown

Please, get yourself to a therapist. I can guarantee even just 1 or 2 sessions will be beneficial for you.

[Dirtydave]

I just can't see how it can be concluded, the virus is only spreading and will do for the next few months.

I think france ireland will be a miracle if they play, and there just isn't any window for Italy to play 2 games!

[Guest]

I just can't see how it can be concluded, the virus is only spreading and will do for the next few months.

I think france ireland will be a miracle if they play, and there just isn't any window for Italy to play 2 games!

In June? Viruses tend to be much less devastating in the warm weather where they 'die' much quicker than in the cold.

Is this just wishful thinking on your part?

[Dirtydave]

Wishful thinking? Why would I want the tournament to fail?

[Guest]

I'm not sure. So England don't win? I don't really know but you're not listening to anyone.

[Dirtydave]

Hahahahahha

To to avoid seeing england win I want to see the tournament fail lol

Chill out will you, my opinion is that The tournament just can't conclude this year, England are head and shoulders better than everyone else at the minute, and the other 4 teams are a bit of a jumble and mess.

[mikey_dragon]

You are here miaow. Not only are you identical you continue to respond to miaow. The behaviour is pathetic and you haven’t fooled anyone. Clown

Please, get yourself to a therapist. I can guarantee even just 1 or 2 sessions will be beneficial for you.

Coming from miaow pretending to be someone else, who’s hobby is to try and win 606? Irony clearly lost on you.

I didn’t believe it possible that miaow could be any more pathetic, but you continue to tear down barriers. Happy IWD.

[Guest]

Hahahahahha

To to avoid seeing england win I want to see the tournament fail lol

Chill out will you, my opinion is that The tournament just can't conclude this year, England are head and shoulders better than everyone else at the minute, and the other 4 teams are a bit of a jumble and mess.

You asked me a question and I answered it. It seems very obvious that the games can be played and likely that they will be played. You're in a minority of one so far in thinking they will be cancelled.

[Sponsored content]