Glasgow and Edinburgh ongoing banter thread 24 - Covid funtimes

[RDW]

First topic message reminder :

Previous gibberish

https://www.606v2.com/t69038p1050-glasgow-and-edinburgh-banter-thread-no-23-new-season-new-thread

Fixtures

Glasgow - none

Edinburgh - none

Scotland - none

[NeilyBroon]

Aye that's it RDW. As I said earlier, Gatland was quoted as attributing the England loss to none of our guys getting in, which to me has always been a very weak excuse given he picked a lot of Wales who were pretty poor that 6Ns. I think for Scottish players to have a chance we'd have to actually win the 6Ns, then he'd have no excuses to hide his lack of player knowledge behind. I always thought 2021 was our year anyway!

In other news Gordie Reid has come out and criticised the super 6, which I thought was interesting as he highlighted that while it may be an okay proving ground for backs, it did nothing for forwards. He seems to think we need to be looking at the English Championship to close the pro gap (feeling some London Scottish de ja vu here). I think a Celtic second tier may be the answer and perhaps more sustainable in the long run, especially if televised.

[bsando]

Well just watched Chiefs vs Blues. The Blues have some team now. They could do pretty well I reckon after a convincing win away to Chiefs. Also, I think that win means Finlay Christie becomes the first Scot to be part of a team to beat a Warren Gatland coached side!? tell me if I’m wrong.
He had a great 15 mins off the bench and I was really impressed with Christies speed of service to help the Blues score the winning try. He He also had great reactions when the ball spat out of a ruck on the Blues try line to grab the ball kick it clear. If you get the chance to watch the highlights check out the try, it was ambitious rugby in very wet weather.

[BigGee]

Good update on Tom Smith's condition with an interview with Mark palmer in the Sunday Times

In the lockdown, I have been watching more than a few old game repeats, Scotland and Lions. It is easy to forget what a good player Tom Smith was, holding down the Test LH spot in 2 Lions tours. Let's hope the positive news continues.

Tom Smith last week underwent his 16th round of chemotherapy since being diagnosed with stage four colorectal cancer last autumn. Each one is a brutal test of endurance, with Smith being attached to a pump for 46 hours as it delivers intravenous succour to his stricken cells. Twelve days later, the process starts again, in a hospital near Bordeaux to which Smith is now delivered by an ambulance taxi driver wearing full PPE.
It’s fair to say that life has taken a few twists and turns since the 48-year-old set off from his home in south-west France last August, bound for Murrayfield and Scotland’s World Cup warm-up match against Les Bleus. It was on the journey from that game to his father-in-law’s house in London that Smith felt severe pain at the back of his ribs. His GP referred him to a specialist, who discovered a 90 per cent blockage of his colon, inflamed lymph nodes and lesions on his brain.
“It got scary for a while,” says the 61-cap former Scotland loose-head. “I was in hospital for ten days at the start and it was my wife Zoe who was given the full picture. Normally, before starting chemo they run tests to see if your body has allergies to the medication. With me, the doctors said they couldn’t wait, we had to start right now or else it would be too late.”
Unable to eat, Smith — who was never the biggest of men — lost 25 kilos in short order, but recently has felt well enough to get back on his bike and enjoy the onset of early summer in Lot-et-Garonne. He has also seen improvements in the results from a crucial examination, the carcinoembryonic antigen test (CEA) which measures antigen levels in the blood.
“You do the chemo in blocks of six and then they run the tests. With this one, a normal score would be under three [nanograms per millilitre]. If you’re a real smoker, you might be nearer five, but anything above that is a problem and anything over 100, the cancer has spread. I was up at 800 to begin with, but progressively we’ve got it down, and it’s now under five. We’re trying to get it down to zero.

“There is surgical stuff to consider, too, but the tumour is in quite a complicated place, wrapped around a blood vessel. The first priority was dealing with the cancer, then dealing with the tumour. We’ll wait and see what happens. With the circumstances of the coronavirus, it made it better not to even be thinking about surgery at the moment.
“You quickly learn how much of a waiting game it is. You have to look at it as people look at arthritis, rather than thinking you’re going to get cured. It’s something that is going to take management over a longer period of time. You’ve got to adjust your mindset and not be going into every blood test thinking, ‘Is it gone? Is it over?’ Hopefully then you get a pleasant surprise.
“Initially, the target is just being able to function, just to still be there, and then it’s about getting through the first chemo as you deal with things like getting a will drawn up and making sure you don’t leave a massive mess behind you. With my first chemo, I was in bed for ten days afterwards, then four days later I was back in for the second round. That bit has got better too.”
Smith is in regular contact with Doddie Weir, his former team-mate who has raised more than £5 million for research into motor neurone disease since being diagnosed in 2016.
“I’ve had great support from right across the game, but Doddie puts me to shame. Before the virus, he was doing events all over the place. He’s done amazing things for the charity and to show an example of courage and strength in adversity.”
Smith and Weir were among five Scots selected for the 1997 British and Irish Lions tour of South Africa. Where the lock was forced home early by an outrageous on-field assault, Smith played a key role in the historic series win. In the 1997 and 2001 tours he ran out for six successive Lions Tests but since the last of those — a six-point defeat to Australia in Brisbane — no Scot has been included in a Lions starting XV.
Smith is confident that will change whenever the Lions are able to get to South Africa next year. From his old stomping ground on the left side of the front row to the likes of Stuart Hogg and Finn Russell, he sees strong contenders who can not only force their way onto the plane, but to the forefront of Warren Gatland’s plans.
“Consistency is obviously important, but in terms of raw materials, in numerous positions we’ve got them. The key thing for us is the Six Nations immediately before, whatever form that takes, but there are certainly names I’d think would be in the mix. And once you’re in the squad, you never know.
“[The loose head] Rory Sutherland is pretty interesting. He’s one of those guys who has had a long road to be an overnight success. It’s a rite of passage for a smaller prop to have a few hard days at the office while you learn the trade, but Sutherland has started to use his size to his advantage. Most big tight heads are used to playing big loose heads, so somebody like him can ask different questions.
“Both hookers [Stuart McInally and Fraser Brown] could be in with a shout, then I look at someone like Hamish Watson [as Edinburgh forwards coach, Smith was instrumental in bringing the openside to the club in 2011]. He’s really kicked on and although that’s a really contested position, he surely has to go as someone who can bring something different with his dynamism. On the front foot, he’s explosive and powerful and I don’t see defensive flaws.
“I really like Jamie Ritchie, too. Our back row, and defence in general, went up a gear in the Six Nations, and I was really intrigued to see how that would go in Cardiff [the postponed championship closer].
“Getting players involved with the Lions can create a cycle, as we’ve seen so many times. Players come back different, better. This Scotland team would become better because of it.”
Smith would love to go to South Africa for the tour but he admits: “The chemo cycle ties me down a bit, and to travel anywhere I have to get paperwork. It was quite a palaver getting across to London [for testimonial dinners arranged in his honour by Shaun Longstaff in March]. I had to get the pump removed by a doctor over there.
“The world has changed and things change quickly with it, but South Africa with the Lions would be a nice one. Let’s see what happens.”

[RDW]

Great to here some positive news.

[BigGee]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/jason-ohalloran-glasgow-scotland-super-rugby/

and one with the departing Jason OHalloran making some good points about why we don't bring in to many Super Rugby players at 350,000 a pop!

[bsando]

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/featured-post/36610/my-life-in-rugby-former-scotland-leicester-edinburgh-and-london-irish-back-greig-tonks/

To continue the theme, a few words from Tonks on his career with Edinburgh and Scotland.

That's great news that Tom Smith is doing much better than previously. Really hope there's more positive news and that his Lions predictions for Scotland come true.

[RDW]

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/featured-post/36610/my-life-in-rugby-former-scotland-leicester-edinburgh-and-london-irish-back-greig-tonks/

To continue the theme, a few words from Tonks on his career with Edinburgh and Scotland.

That's great news that Tom Smith is doing much better than previously. Really hope there's more positive news and that his Lions predictions for Scotland come true.

I was a big fan of Tonks - he was a classy player and a standout during a real mediocre/crap time for Edinburgh. I always thought the experiment of him at 10 should have been made more permanent but as a utility player he was always going to be moved around.

I remember before the 2017 Australia game us all commenting that him v Folau would be no contest, but he actually played pretty well and we won! One of the our best performances under Townsend IMO.

[bsando]

He had a very good rugby brain. Like you say, he did well during the mid to lower mid table years at Edinburgh. It was interesting to hear him say he left because he was getting fed up of the mediocre results or lack of progress.

That result against Australia was very impressive, I do remember Tonks being in a one on one against Folau in that match competing for a cross field kick. There was only ever going to be one winner in that instance haha. The Lee Jones hop over the bundling Aussie defenders to setup the try was the main highlight for me in that game.

[RDW]

I just remember Finn putting in an absolute worldy of a performance - that's when we knew he'd really cemented his place as a top international 10.

That was such a good period as a Scotland fan - that summer tour, the game against NZ in the autumn (and Doddie coming on ), the 2018 6N (THAT pass), then we blooded a lot of youngsters in the 2018 summer tour.

The cracks began to show soon after though. 2018 autumn tests were OK, then 2019 was a bit of a horrible year.

[NeilyBroon]

I just remember Finn putting in an absolute worldy of a performance - that's when we knew he'd really cemented his place as a top international 10.

That was such a good period as a Scotland fan - that summer tour, the game against NZ in the autumn (and Doddie coming on ), the 2018 6N (THAT pass), then we blooded a lot of youngsters in the 2018 summer tour.

The cracks began to show soon after though. 2018 autumn tests were OK, then 2019 was a bit of a horrible year.

Worst since 2013 for sure!

There's green shoots again, I feel like we're at a pivotal moment where we either become the full shabang or fall into insignificance next season. A lot depends on how our youngsters do at club and whether the project players make an impact when they eventually play for Scotland.

Duhan definitely looks the part for one of our less competitive positions, although will be interesting to see if VDW gets a shoe in. Hopefully Chamberlain gets good game time at Edinburgh and Ollie Smith at Glasgow, as our golden generation gets another season closer to changing of the guard for Scotland. Dobie could start pushing Price and Horne next season given the opportunity and would be good to see Sheil kick on too. That's not to mention Gordon, Flockhart and co. Fagerson Jr will need to push on imo, I think he needs a bit of mentoring, given his potential, he always feels a bit underpowered in the higher level games but he definitely has it in him to have the physical edge. Bit like Johnny Gray really. The right forwards coach for Scotland could do that potentially.

Plenty to be positive about in the coming year, could see a repeat of 2018, equally we could fall back to the lows of 2013. It's a very Toonbola/Finnsanity future. Wouldn't be Scottish if it wasn't!

[bsando]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p08hfh5s

They go into detail about Townsend's new direction and Glasgow at the end of this entertaining podcast with Tom English and Andy Burke. Gordon Reid is a funny man.

On 2019, as they say in the podcast, it was a maturing moment for Townsend. He had to recognise the game plan was broken and had its limits. Fast forward to where Scotland are now and it could go either way. Scotland end up pushing on and expanding on their hard to beat moto or they stagnate and become reminiscent of Andy Robinson circa 2012.

The Jason O'Halloran interview with Rugbypass had some good insight into how the Scottish clubs are up against it financially to even sign so-so Super Rugby players. The market dictates that they should be paid x amount of cash (a lot for Glasgow and Edinburgh to fork out) when they're more or less the same quality of Nick Grigg or a young Sam Johnson. Personally, I think the Scottish way of digging up young and potentially promising players is a better way forward than taking on players like Hickey or Matt Proctor. Sam Johnson and Grigg are prime examples of what you can achieve by offering a promising player a chance abroad.

[NeilyBroon]

Aye, it does feel like we're where Ireland were a few years ago pre-Schmidt. Plenty of talent but not being used correctly/poor tactical choices for the skillsets (ironically seems to have come full circle). I hope this season has truly changed Toonie, as I feel a back-to-basics approach in attack would work wonders. A bit of flair is fine if it's not your whole attack plan. O'Halloran also chatted a lot in that interview about how much difference it makes having a lot of offloads. That element seems to have left Scotland's game, and unless we get quicker rucking I'd suggest it would be a better route to go if we want to make inroads, and is simple from a gameplan perspective (rather than Toonie's 200 page play book).  

Also it will be interesting to see how much of an impact Johnny Bell may have on the way our players attack at an international level. I think it's a great learning opportunity for the international coaches to have a backs coach of his calibre at the SRU's disposal, I think Toonie would do well to listen to other backs coaches this coming season.

... Unless it's Hodge

[BigGee]

Well we were promised a few Glasgow signings this week and true to their word we kjck off todsy with George Turner signing on for 2 more years.

A good player, very dynamic who we may not have seen the best of yet due ti injuries.

[NeilyBroon]

Good news but it's more the holes in the squad that are the worry!

[jimbopip]

They are saying there will be another signing announced tomorrow. They tend to manage the announcement one by one.

[tigertattie]

Good news but it's more the holes in the squad that are the worry!

yup, there's quite a difference between "signing" news and "re-signing" news!

its pretty safe to assume that anyone not announced as leaving the club already aint going to be leaving now

[bsando]

You'd hope! Turner re-signing is a great bit of business, himself and Brown are great players to have at club level and Grant Stewart is a player I rate highly as well. Good to see one position is well stocked.

Another interview I've listened to today was Jim Hamilton speaking with Gatland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw1LpRgMNZo

He asked him straight out about Scottish selections and it would seem the shellacking by England in 2017 was the nail in the coffin as we all sort of knew anyway. It was good to hear him say he was impressed with the new direction though and that it hadn't gone unnoticed by him. Just imagine if Cotter had tried to play it safer in 2017 at Twickenham and it had been a close loss. I think we may have had at least two or three more players on the plane

[NeilyBroon]

You'd hope! Turner re-signing is a great bit of business, himself and Brown are great players to have at club level and Grant Stewart is a player I rate highly as well. Good to see one position is well stocked.

Another interview I've listened to today was Jim Hamilton speaking with Gatland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw1LpRgMNZo

He asked him straight out about Scottish selections and it would seem the shellacking by England in 2017 was the nail in the coffin as we all sort of knew anyway. It was good to hear him say he was impressed with the new direction though and that it hadn't gone unnoticed by him. Just imagine if Cotter had tried to play it safer in 2017 at Twickenham and it had been a close loss. I think we may have had at least two or three more players on the plane

I don't think it was a case of Cotter telling the boys to do different, more a mixture of player nerves, excitement and a collective clusterf**k of things going wrong Brown getting carded in 5 minutes was a bad omen for things to come. By the end of that game we had Weir on the wing and Bennett's international career was all but over after that (he still has time but he's more and more up against it as players come through). Dunbar's also arguably ended after that day as it lead to his recurring injuries and dip in form. It was probably the most horrible day for Scottish rugby since Cardiff 2010 when Paterson got the kidney injury and Thom Evans nearly died.

I still don't think it's a great excuse given that Gatland picked a lot of the squad on historical form (especially the Welsh boys) and could easily have looked at the other games and individuals in the Scotland squad and think "Yeah I could definitely use them from the bench or in the starting XV". If he can see it in Hogg he can see it in others.

[bsando]

Yeah I agree Neily, it is very harsh to say one game ruined a bunch of lads chances at Lions honours. I guess he had to blame it on that one game because all the rest were pretty good games for Scotland, even the loss to France was a tight affair with a lot of injuries in that fixture. I had completely forgotten about that Brown carding and the injuries in that game. Annoyingly for us, the lack of depth can really hurt Scotland when important players go off the field.

[NeilyBroon]

Yeah I agree Neily, it is very harsh to say one game ruined a bunch of lads chances at Lions honours. I guess he had to blame it on that one game because all the rest were pretty good games for Scotland, even the loss to France was a tight affair with a lot of injuries in that fixture. I had completely forgotten about that Brown carding and the injuries in that game. Annoyingly for us, the lack of depth can really hurt Scotland when important players go off the field.

Yeah agree, although I'd feel confident we could cover a crisis like that better now, which is testament to how far we've come in depth still. There have been a lot of players blooded in the 3 years since then. We'd have Kinghorn and Maitland and, at a push, Graham to cover Hoggy. Harris to cover wing. Finn could probably do a job at 12 with Hastings at 10 or if it gets desperate Kinghorn can cover 10. Depending on the bench you could be looking at Hutch to cover both centre positions too.

Forwards, both hookers can do a shift in the backrow, we'd have Dell off the bench for Sutherland and Nel is still playing international rugby (just) so can cover Fagerson from the bench. Second row we have a lot of options and I don't think I've seen a Scotland game since the early 00s where we've had to cover second row. I think the last time we maybe covered with Cowan? That's a half guess but I think I have a vague memory of it.

I hope to God we don't go through another game like those though, horrible to watch and you really feel for the players because at the end of the day it's just really bad luck and a career changer/ender.

[RDW]

You'd hope! Turner re-signing is a great bit of business, himself and Brown are great players to have at club level and Grant Stewart is a player I rate highly as well. Good to see one position is well stocked.

Another interview I've listened to today was Jim Hamilton speaking with Gatland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw1LpRgMNZo

He asked him straight out about Scottish selections and it would seem the shellacking by England in 2017 was the nail in the coffin as we all sort of knew anyway. It was good to hear him say he was impressed with the new direction though and that it hadn't gone unnoticed by him. Just imagine if Cotter had tried to play it safer in 2017 at Twickenham and it had been a close loss. I think we may have had at least two or three more players on the plane

I don't think it was a case of Cotter telling the boys to do different, more a mixture of player nerves, excitement and a collective clusterf**k of things going wrong Brown getting carded in 5 minutes was a bad omen for things to come. By the end of that game we had Weir on the wing and Bennett's international career was all but over after that (he still has time but he's more and more up against it as players come through). Dunbar's also arguably ended after that day as it lead to his recurring injuries and dip in form. It was probably the most horrible day for Scottish rugby since Cardiff 2010 when Paterson got the kidney injury and Thom Evans nearly died.  

I still don't think it's a great excuse given that Gatland picked a lot of the squad on historical form (especially the Welsh boys) and could easily have looked at the other games and individuals in the Scotland squad and think "Yeah I could definitely use them from the bench or in the starting XV". If he can see it in Hogg he can see it in others.

It was my once and only trip to Twickenham, something I paid 95 quid to witness!

[NeilyBroon]

Ouch. Yeah Twickenham is not the cheapest... I tend to travel to murrayfield instead! Only international I've watched there was the England v NZ autumn international a few years ago and the London sevens (which is great fun). Definitely a good day out though!

[RDW]

Been thinking about the return to play from a Glasgow point of view. It's going to be difficult for the players to get up for it. They've basically had a full off-season now and needing to start from scratch fitness and gameplay-wise, not to mention under a new coach. Problem is they're doing that knowing they've only got 2 games to play then they're done again. The only motivation is the rivalry with Edinburgh, but let's face it that's not exactly Roma v Lazio in terms of emotion.

It's going to be really weird for the player to be putting all this effort in for 2 games.

At least the international players will have the re-arranged games in mind, but it's still not clear when that will be. I can't imagine there will be games any sooner than October, so that's 6 weeks between the last Edinburgh game and first Scotland one.

[NeilyBroon]

I think in all likelihood they'll view the derbies as warm up games. It's a good chance for Wilson to get to know his squad and try combinations. It's also a great chance for the youngsters to show they're worthy of a spot in next season's 23. I'd imagine we'll see most of the squad rotated to get match fitness back up.

For Edinburgh it's more of a bugger as they'll have finals so can't really treat them as preseason.

[RDW]

I think in all likelihood they'll view the derbies as warm up games. It's a good chance for Wilson to get to know his squad and try combinations. It's also a great chance for the youngsters to show they're worthy of a spot in next season's 23. I'd imagine we'll see most of the squad rotated to get match fitness back up.

For Edinburgh it's more of a bugger as they'll have finals so can't really treat them as preseason.

Not much use if they then have 6-8 weeks of doing nothing! (even longer for the non-internationals). I know this is just the way it is, but my main point here is that it's going to be really weird for the players. At least Edinburgh have a playoff to work towards.

Can't imagine the Italians or Saffers are that fussed about the last 2 games either!

[NeilyBroon]

Presumably they won't be sitting around for 6-8 weeks!

I'd imagine by September organising training matches won't be as big an issue. Season then would start anyway, presuming all is okay (enough) come October.

[RDW]

If the rumours are correct then it will be international rugby in October and November, so for the clubs not in European knock outs (supposedly September) that's it after 2 games. For the non-internationals their 'season' will be over after 2 games. Just all seems a bit pointless but there's not really any good alternatives!

No idea what will happen after November - presumably this much vaunted global season will come into effect...few months off then kick off the new season with the 6Nations in the spring...??

[NeilyBroon]

If the rumours are correct then it will be international rugby in October and November, so for the clubs not in European knock outs (supposedly September) that's it after 2 games. For the non-internationals their 'season' will be over after 2 games. Just all seems a bit pointless but there's not really any good alternatives!

No idea what will happen after November - presumably this much vaunted global season will come into effect...few months off then kick off the new season with the 6Nations in the spring...??

They will have to, the loss of revenue and jobs would become too much and they can't just depend on the govt giving them a bailout as they're not the only sport to have suffered during this pandemic. If social distancing is indeed weaned in July then it makes the prospect of having at least half full stadiums in October a lot more practical, apparently they're going to try it with cricket next month. The TV revenue would also help no end, this coming season I think the fans will have to cough up if they want to see their sport continue.

Internationals don't normally stop club rugby and I don't think the pro14 will be affected by the global season, I think SANZAR will just have to extend their season to early 2021, an extended season is a prospect every nation is facing anyway.

I would imagine the pro14 will start their next season around then provided SA is good to go (although given they've only just breached 100,000 cases doesn't look great) alternatively provisions may be made for South African teams to play their seasons derbies over 2 months while they wait for an improvement in corona in SA.

[RDW]

If the rumours are correct then it will be international rugby in October and November, so for the clubs not in European knock outs (supposedly September) that's it after 2 games. For the non-internationals their 'season' will be over after 2 games. Just all seems a bit pointless but there's not really any good alternatives!

No idea what will happen after November - presumably this much vaunted global season will come into effect...few months off then kick off the new season with the 6Nations in the spring...??

They will have to, the loss of revenue and jobs would become too much and they can't just depend on the govt giving them a bailout as they're not the only sport to have suffered during this pandemic. If social distancing is indeed weaned in July then it makes the prospect of having at least half full stadiums in October a lot more practical, apparently they're going to try it with cricket next month. The TV revenue would also help no end, this coming season I think the fans will have to cough up if they want to see their sport continue.

Internationals don't normally stop club rugby and I don't think the pro14 will be affected by the global season, I think SANZAR will just have to extend their season to early 2021, an extended season is a prospect every nation is facing anyway.

I would imagine the pro14 will start their next season around then provided SA is good to go (although given they've only just breached 100,000 cases doesn't look great) alternatively provisions may be made for South African teams to play their seasons derbies over 2 months while they wait for an improvement in corona in SA.

They don't, but one of the stated aims of the season re-shuffle is to reduce the crossover. The intention is to have 2 internationals windows instead of 3 to avoid so much disruption to the club game. It's not overly satisfactory that so many club games are without the best players playing.

The flip side of that could mean clubs going a long time without any games. The flip side of that flip side is that clubs could run a separate tournament during international blocks, like how they do in the southern hemisphere (Currie Cup etc). That would be a big change in the NH though as nothing like it really exists just now.

I really don't see how we'll be able to launch into a full new Pro 14 season soon after this one ends.

[NeilyBroon]

If the rumours are correct then it will be international rugby in October and November, so for the clubs not in European knock outs (supposedly September) that's it after 2 games. For the non-internationals their 'season' will be over after 2 games. Just all seems a bit pointless but there's not really any good alternatives!

No idea what will happen after November - presumably this much vaunted global season will come into effect...few months off then kick off the new season with the 6Nations in the spring...??

They will have to, the loss of revenue and jobs would become too much and they can't just depend on the govt giving them a bailout as they're not the only sport to have suffered during this pandemic. If social distancing is indeed weaned in July then it makes the prospect of having at least half full stadiums in October a lot more practical, apparently they're going to try it with cricket next month. The TV revenue would also help no end, this coming season I think the fans will have to cough up if they want to see their sport continue.

Internationals don't normally stop club rugby and I don't think the pro14 will be affected by the global season, I think SANZAR will just have to extend their season to early 2021, an extended season is a prospect every nation is facing anyway.

I would imagine the pro14 will start their next season around then provided SA is good to go (although given they've only just breached 100,000 cases doesn't look great) alternatively provisions may be made for South African teams to play their seasons derbies over 2 months while they wait for an improvement in corona in SA.

They don't, but one of the stated aims of the season re-shuffle is to reduce the crossover. The intention is to have 2 internationals windows instead of 3 to avoid so much disruption to the club game. It's not overly satisfactory that so many club games are without the best players playing.

The flip side of that could mean clubs going a long time without any games. The flip side of that flip side is that clubs could run a separate tournament during international blocks, like how they do in the southern hemisphere (Currie Cup etc). That would be a big change in the NH though as nothing like it really exists just now.

I really don't see how we'll be able to launch into a full new Pro 14 season soon after this one ends.

Not ideal, but it's done during the WC, which is usually right at the beginning of the season anyway.

I dunno, I feel optimistic that the season will be running by October in some shape or form. As I said I just think it's too much of a financial drain for the clubs if they don't, it's hard enough for them out of season as it is without extending the break further.

Another solution is squad restrictions for the internationals (like the WC) with it limited to 30 so some players are left with clubs permanently. Again, not ideal but you'd still have some fringe squad players who are exceptional.

A lot of the internationals are down to SANZAR and how demanding they are with regards to schedule. Given they've not exactly been the most supportive of other unions in years gone by and were already fairly belligerent about NH rugby scheduling without the pandemic I'm not holding my breath.

[RDW]

Our debate is showing just how complicated this is! Take the SRU and IRFU as an example, who own the clubs - financially they will make a lot more money from playing a load of internationals in October or November (with our without crowds) than the Pro 14 resuming, so that's where their priorities will lie. The broadcast deal alone from say 8 internationals will probably be way more than the entire Pro 14 season.

You've then got the French clubs and to a certain extent the English clubs who couldn't give a flying f*** what the international team does!

Somehow they've got to stitch this all together. I suppose we probably need to treat the two things as separate issues - the short term solution probably won't match the long term plan. As such they might run Pro 14 and Internationals concurrently to get teams playing again and money coming in.

Who knows!!!

[Hazel Sapling]

It has taken the first global disaster since WWII to really force people to the negotiating table on a global season. It sums up the complexity.

[NeilyBroon]

I think the conclusion is that it's been too long since I've seen a game that wasn't recorded at least 3 months ago.

No rugby leads to far too much speculation.

[RDW]

Anyone been watching NZ super rugby? The games have been great. Very much helps that I'm in the right timezone!

I'm a huge Aussie rules fan now too - it's such a bonkers sport but so fun. I just can't get into rugby league though even though it's the biggest sport in Sydney.

[NeilyBroon]

Anyone been watching NZ super rugby? The games have been great. Very much helps that I'm in the right timezone!

I'm a huge Aussie rules fan now too - it's such a bonkers sport but so fun. I just can't get into rugby league though even though it's the biggest sport in Sydney.

Tempted to get a Sky pass but then I have to go through the faff of getting Now TV, whilst premier sports is rubbish they're at least easy and you get exactly what you're paying for and that's it.

Crusaders v Chiefs Would make nice Sunday morning viewing with a bacon sandwich on replay.

[RDW]

Chiefs have been a bit crap so far. Must be the new coach

[NeilyBroon]

Chiefs have been a bit crap so far. Must be the new coach

You mean battering it up the middle isn't working? Who'd have thunk it!

He'll definitely have a harder time grinding out wins in Super Rugby, it's just not how it works out there.

But to quote Melchett, "Doing precisely what we've done eighteen times before is exactly the last thing they'll expect us to do this time!"

[Hazel Sapling]

Marshall Sykes has gone to Edinburgh. What is going on at Glasgow?

[Tramptastic]

Our debate is showing just how complicated this is! Take the SRU and IRFU as an example, who own the clubs - financially they will make a lot more money from playing a load of internationals in October or November (with our without crowds) than the Pro 14 resuming, so that's where their priorities will lie. The broadcast deal alone from say 8 internationals will probably be way more than the entire Pro 14 season.

You've then got the French clubs and to a certain extent the English clubs who couldn't give a flying f*** what the international team does!

Somehow they've got to stitch this all together. I suppose we probably need to treat the two things as separate issues - the short term solution probably won't match the long term plan. As such they might run Pro 14 and Internationals concurrently to get teams playing again and money coming in.

Who knows!!!

The mutterings seem to be that the English & French leagues are playing hardball purely as a negotiating tactic - dunno why, a global season startin early next year would mean the clubs can start making their money back ASAP?

The thing is, if all the unions are on board with the new international windows and new league season then the PRL and LNR can't do much about it surely? like, less interrupting international windows, actual recovery time built in for the players, nobody having to pay extra to prevent players from playing internationally, I dont see the downside for the clubs???

[NeilyBroon]

Marshall Sykes has gone to Edinburgh. What is going on at Glasgow?

I don't know how much Cockers has had an influence but this is madness. Edinburgh have about 50 forwards in their squad alone, I just think this kind of move is counter-productive and probably career limiting. Cockers even said Sykes was still "raw" in other words, he won't get a look in next season.

...So leave him at the club where he's more likely to get time and become experienced!

There's redressing the balance, then there's taking all the eggs from one basket and chucking them into the other with some landing vaguely around it and some breaking.

[RDW]

Gilchrist, Toolis, Charmichael, McKenzie, Davidson, Sykes

Quite the selection!

[BigGee]

Gilchrist, Toolis, Charmichael, McKenzie, Davidson, Sykes

Quite the selection!

TOL article suggests that Edinburgh are primarily going to use Carmichael as a BS this season, which might explain the need for another second row. Sykes can, of course, play there as well.

Much as I would have liked to see Sykes stay with Glasgow, I am glad he has got a professional contract. He was a stand out junior when he was just 18 and we would have seen a lot more of him had he not done his knee in during his second junior season. I also have a bit of a soft spot for him as he comes from Ipswich, where I went to school for a while as well.

[RDW]

It's not like we're short of options at 6 either!

[BigGee]

There is going to be a bit of a changing of the guard at Edinburgh in the Row over the next few years.

I don't think Mckenzie has got to much more left in him and may well be bypassed by the youngsters even this season. Gilchrist and Toolis as well whilst not done yet, are certainly at the more mature end of the spectrum.

It would seem to be good forward planning to get the youngsters in and up to speed now. Carmichael, Davidson and Sykes are all players of great potential and they will keep the imcumbants very honest.

[NeilyBroon]

I hear they're rebranding Warriors again to Glasgow Reivers and downsizing to the Ayr club ground so better to bridge the gap between the Super 6 and Edinburgh.

[EST]

Marshall Sykes has gone to Edinburgh. What is going on at Glasgow?

Cameron Henderson and Marshall Sykes gone from the Academy in one summer - two standout players at junior level, and who could have been Glasgow's second row pairing of the future.

I'm sure there must be a recruitment plan in place, but alongside Davidson leaving, it doesn't seem that there is much in the way of forward thinking at the moment.

[NeilyBroon]

Marshall Sykes has gone to Edinburgh. What is going on at Glasgow?

Cameron Henderson and Marshall Sykes gone from the Academy in one summer - two standout players at junior level, and who could have been Glasgow's second row pairing of the future.

I'm sure there must be a recruitment plan in place, but alongside Davidson leaving, it doesn't seem that there is much in the way of forward thinking at the moment.

I'm not so sure. The only time the SRU and Glasgow social media are this quiet is when they're trying to hide something... or in this case, hide the fact they have nothing!

[tigertattie]

Marshall Sykes has gone to Edinburgh. What is going on at Glasgow?

Rats, sinking ship..............

[EST]

Marshall Sykes has gone to Edinburgh. What is going on at Glasgow?

Cameron Henderson and Marshall Sykes gone from the Academy in one summer - two standout players at junior level, and who could have been Glasgow's second row pairing of the future.

I'm sure there must be a recruitment plan in place, but alongside Davidson leaving, it doesn't seem that there is much in the way of forward thinking at the moment.

I'm not so sure. The only time the SRU and Glasgow social media are this quiet is when they're trying to hide something... or in this case, hide the fact they have nothing!

Yeah, if they have good news to share you think they would have by now! I wonder if they have been caught out contract wise by Covid somehow? Cockers does seem to like getting his singing business out of the way early, which may have helped.

If Nacks signs on, then Glasgow will have brought in two of the worlds best Locks, so I won't complain too much around the 2nd row - but the squad still has plenty holes and at junior level we don't seem to be able to keep hold of some of our best talent.

[NeilyBroon]

Marshall Sykes has gone to Edinburgh. What is going on at Glasgow?

Cameron Henderson and Marshall Sykes gone from the Academy in one summer - two standout players at junior level, and who could have been Glasgow's second row pairing of the future.

I'm sure there must be a recruitment plan in place, but alongside Davidson leaving, it doesn't seem that there is much in the way of forward thinking at the moment.

I'm not so sure. The only time the SRU and Glasgow social media are this quiet is when they're trying to hide something... or in this case, hide the fact they have nothing!

Yeah, if they have good news to share you think they would have by now!  I wonder if they have been caught out contract wise by Covid somehow? Cockers does seem to like getting his singing business out of the way early, which may have helped.  

If Nacks signs on, then Glasgow will have brought in two of the worlds best Locks, so I won't complain too much around the 2nd row - but the squad still has plenty holes and at junior level we don't seem to be able to keep hold of some of our best talent.

My concern is that will literally leave them with no budget for anyone else. The two of them would cost the club hundreds of thousands, I think Glasgow are actually better off with developing players in the second row and spending the money plugging the holes.

It's more "must" rather than "nice to have" signings at this stage. Get Ollie Smith in front of a contract and sign him straight away that will at least resolve the fullback issue, he's good enough to start a pro contract and is definitely worth keeping a hold of. Maybe sign Thompson too from the academy, we need a back-up flyhalf and he could do a job I reckon.

Forwards, perhaps Gary or Guy Graham would be good signings. Both abrasive forwards with a bit about them and won't be pricey relative to other options. Another young second row signing from another club (doesn't need to be SQ) may be an option, perhaps other smaller nation internationals could be tempted?

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