The golfers' Music Room

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Cover wise it's hard to look past Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley, not usually my kind of thing but the haunting beauty of his voice is a guilty pleasure, one of the weaker songs on his only true album to be fair.

I love that Prince solo and i've always got to the end and thought the exact same thing 'where the **** did his guitar go?', can't go wrong with a bit of Stevie Ray Vaughan but not a fan of Hendrix being covered, it's near impossible to get the guitar tone right to do him justice but SRV does an admirable job.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Davie wrote:

super_realist wrote:I think it's the singers voice which I don't like. He makes it an effort to listen to Muse.

That's exactly it for me. He always sounds out of breath and trying to catch it. Gets very irritating after a while. The music is pretty good but once I've got that breathlessness in my head I can't shake it

I saw them last June at the London Stadium and I noticed the breathing thing after a couple of songs and couldn't stop concentrating on it for the rest of the gig, they were the last true live band I hadn't seen and was quite disappointed afterwards.

Also saw the Stranglers in Hyde Park back in 2017 I believe playing on the second stage, was waiting waiting for Green Day on the main stage and have to say without Hugh Cornwell it wasn't for me.

I was there that day too, long day as it opened with the Damned then Stiff little Fingers and ended with the Stranglers (yes on the 2nd stage) then Green Day. As an aside, whilst making my way to nearer the front of the stage before the Stranglers came on (the previous band had just finished so there quite a bit of in/out movement going on) all of a sudden right in front of me was none other than Captain Sensible. Managed to say hello and have a chat with him, he was there because his mates son had been playing in the band that had just finished and was there to support him.

On the Stranglers, I thought they'd struggle after Cornwell left (and for a time they did) but Warne is good, different style to Hugh but still good.

JAS wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Davie wrote:

super_realist wrote:I think it's the singers voice which I don't like. He makes it an effort to listen to Muse.

That's exactly it for me. He always sounds out of breath and trying to catch it. Gets very irritating after a while. The music is pretty good but once I've got that breathlessness in my head I can't shake it

I saw them last June at the London Stadium and I noticed the breathing thing after a couple of songs and couldn't stop concentrating on it for the rest of the gig, they were the last true live band I hadn't seen and was quite disappointed afterwards.

Also saw the Stranglers in Hyde Park back in 2017 I believe playing on the second stage, was waiting waiting for Green Day on the main stage and have to say without Hugh Cornwell it wasn't for me.

I was there that day too, long day as it opened with the Damned then Stiff little Fingers and ended with the Stranglers (yes on the 2nd stage) then Green Day. As an aside, whilst making my way to nearer the front of the stage before the Stranglers came on (the previous band had just finished so there quite a bit of in/out movement going on) all of a sudden right in front of me was none other than Captain Sensible. Managed to say hello and have a chat with him, he was there because his mates son had been playing in the band that had just finished and was there to support him.

On the Stranglers, I thought they'd struggle after Cornwell left (and for a time they did) but Warne is good, different style to Hugh but still good.

I was at the main stage most of the day, the Hives, Gogol Bodello and then some of Rancid before giving the Stranglers a go, should have switched earlier in the day as Gogol and Rancid are not my thing at all, the whole post hardcore scene has somewhat passed me by. Good day and my highlight was Billy Joe screaming ....and **** Donald Trump, biggest noise of the whole day.

super_realist wrote:It's an opinion Jas and I don't think that The Edge is a great guitarist or that he's particularly diverse in his playing. Far too much reliance on effects.

No I don't think the Edge is a stand out either and may be a bit lacking in diversity of guitar style (although to give credit he has explored the effects side) but with the overall body of work that U2 as a band have produced it's a bit of a stretch to say that their material has too much similarity.

JAS wrote:

super_realist wrote:It's an opinion Jas and I don't think that The Edge is a great guitarist or that he's particularly diverse in his playing. Far too much reliance on effects.

No I don't think the Edge is a stand out either and may be a bit lacking in diversity of guitar style (although to give credit he has explored the effects side) but with the overall body of work that U2 as a band have produced it's a bit of a stretch to say that their material has too much similarity.

OK, replace lack of diversity with a lack of interest then. I don't think I've ever heard a U2 guitar riff that interested me.

Soul Requiem wrote:

JAS wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Davie wrote:

super_realist wrote:I think it's the singers voice which I don't like. He makes it an effort to listen to Muse.

That's exactly it for me. He always sounds out of breath and trying to catch it. Gets very irritating after a while. The music is pretty good but once I've got that breathlessness in my head I can't shake it

I saw them last June at the London Stadium and I noticed the breathing thing after a couple of songs and couldn't stop concentrating on it for the rest of the gig, they were the last true live band I hadn't seen and was quite disappointed afterwards.

Also saw the Stranglers in Hyde Park back in 2017 I believe playing on the second stage, was waiting waiting for Green Day on the main stage and have to say without Hugh Cornwell it wasn't for me.

I was there that day too, long day as it opened with the Damned then Stiff little Fingers and ended with the Stranglers (yes on the 2nd stage) then Green Day. As an aside, whilst making my way to nearer the front of the stage before the Stranglers came on (the previous band had just finished so there quite a bit of in/out movement going on) all of a sudden right in front of me was none other than Captain Sensible. Managed to say hello and have a chat with him, he was there because his mates son had been playing in the band that had just finished and was there to support him.

On the Stranglers, I thought they'd struggle after Cornwell left (and for a time they did) but Warne is good, different style to Hugh but still good.

I was at the main stage most of the day, the Hives, Gogol Bodello and then some of Rancid before giving the Stranglers a go, should have switched earlier in the day as Gogol and Rancid are not my thing at all, the whole post hardcore scene has somewhat passed me by. Good day and my highlight was Billy Joe screaming ....and **** Donald Trump, biggest noise of the whole day.

Ha, have seen Greenday several times as well. My highlight was meeting the Captain but another thing I remember of the day was on the really small stage down near the toilets near the South gate, there was a punky 3 girl band on, all three of them blond and fit as f***. The singer clocked me clearly eyeing them up, she just stared back, pouted and smiled, they had it and they knew it. Cant for the life of me remember what they were called.

JAS wrote: I remember of the day was on the really small stage down near the toilets near the South gate, there was a punky 3 girl band on, all three of them blond and fit as f***. The singer clocked me clearly eyeing them up, she just stared back, pouted and smiled, they had it and they knew it. Cant for the life of me remember what they were called.

By the power of google... they were called Hey Charlie

JAS wrote:
Ha, have seen Greenday several times as well. My highlight was meeting the Captain but another thing I remember of the day was on the really small stage down near the toilets near the South gate, there was a punky 3 girl band on, all three of them blond and fit as f***. The singer clocked me clearly eyeing them up, she just stared back, pouted and smiled, they had it and they knew it. Cant for the life of me remember what they were called.

I think I know who you mean, they were on before the other stages started if we're thinking of the same band, was with the other half so didn't get a decent look. Tried a big of digging and can't find them.

Green Day are definitely worth seeing that's for, their live show is greater than the sum of their actual material if that makes sense.

Mysterious ways, I will follow and sunday bloody Sunday. I think they are all good.

Bullet the blue sky is a decent song.

beninho wrote:Mysterious ways, I will follow and sunday bloody Sunday. I think they are all good.

Can't think of Sunday Bloody Sunday without thinking of Alan Partridge.

Soul Requiem wrote:

JAS wrote:
Ha, have seen Greenday several times as well. My highlight was meeting the Captain but another thing I remember of the day was on the really small stage down near the toilets near the South gate, there was a punky 3 girl band on, all three of them blond and fit as f***. The singer clocked me clearly eyeing them up, she just stared back, pouted and smiled, they had it and they knew it. Cant for the life of me remember what they were called.

I think I know who you mean, they were on before the other stages started if we're thinking of the same band, was with the other half so didn't get a decent look. Tried a big of digging and can't find them.

Green Day are definitely worth seeing that's for, their live show is greater than the sum of their actual material if that makes sense.

Found a clip , the back of my head must be just off the right of the camera https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJMexES-Zek

Green Day were awesome live I only saw them from American Idiot onwards though would love to have seen them live back in the Dookie/Nimrod era.

Like Green Day? Check out Bad Religion - angry since 1980, and good with it.

navyblueshorts wrote:Like Green Day? Check out Bad Religion - angry since 1980, and good with it.

My favourite all time lyric is from Struck A Nerve;

In negative disposition
As I'm bombarded by superlatives
Realizing very well that I am not alone
Introverted
I look to tomorrow for salvation
But I'm thinking altruistically
And a wave of overwhelming doubt
Turns me to stone

I do much prefer bands who are able to come up with a quality lyric without the need for rhyming.

Quite like some of Billy Joel’s songs, Piano Man probably being my favourite.

Are you ready Steve? Uh-huh

westisbest wrote:Quite like some of Billy Joel’s songs, Piano Man probably being my favourite.

Yeah. Pre-Christie Brinkley pretty good.

Like it or not, U2 definitely have a “sound” that very much comes down to The Edges guitar (and Bonos howling). But tbh I only think The Edge is part of the discussion because he’s famous.

Prince was a musical genious and made some great songs. But his weirdness probably prevented him from being completely accepted by the mainstream.

pedro wrote:Like it or not, U2 definitely have a “sound” that very much comes down to The Edges guitar (and Bonos howling). But tbh I only think The Edge is part of the discussion because he’s famous.

Prince was a musical genious and made some great songs. But his weirdness probably prevented him from being completely accepted by the mainstream.

Genius is a bit strong for any musician. If Prince never existed there wouldn't be a huge hole in the world of music. Adolph Rickenbacker or Les Paul though is another story.

Genius on its own is perhaps a little strong (though maybe not) but "musical genius" which is what pedro wrote is perfectly acceptable and (IMO) true. I thought you prided yourself on comprehension of what people wrote?

I'm not even sure musical genius is an apt description. Probably easier to throw about if you're a fan of said person.

If you'd read the following sentence you'd have realised that I kept it in the context of music and wasn't implying that anyone thought he was a genius in the true sense of the word.

I suppose you have to be able to comprehend Prince, and have a bit of musical knowledge to accept Prince, is pretty clearly a musical genius, you dont have to be a fan of his, but if you are a fan of music you will have to accept it.

Unfortunately Realist, thinks (thought?) Prince is nothing more than a "sappy balladeer" so probably isn't in a position to pass a comment on whether prince is a musical genius or isnt.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/dp5n3v/prince-was-a-genius-no-matter-how-you-define-it-jason-king-2016

I would also put Stevie Wonder in the list of musical geniuses.

Not sure I'd call Prince a musical genius, highly capable and talented musician yes but genius is probably reserved for ultra capables like Miles Davis or T Bone Walker.

beninho wrote:I suppose you have to be able to comprehend Prince, and have a bit of musical knowledge to accept Prince, is pretty clearly a musical genius, you dont have to be a fan of his, but if you are a fan of music you will have to accept it.

Unfortunately Realist, thinks (thought?) Prince is nothing more than a "sappy balladeer" so probably isn't in a position to pass a comment on whether prince is a musical genius or isnt.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/dp5n3v/prince-was-a-genius-no-matter-how-you-define-it-jason-king-2016

It's all about opinion, so why do you think citing someone else's opinion matters and who isn't even part of this forum? I'm sure I could find a citation which gave an opinion that he wasn't a "musical genius" but what would that prove?

You think he was a "genius" I don't, because I don't think he's left a hole or a vacuum in music by kicking the bucket.

Prince wrote and produced all of his music himself (plus a lot for others), could play almost every instrument to perfection, and excelled in different music genres (pop, rock, funk, soul etc.), plus was a Performer with capital P. Yes, he made a lot of crap but also timeless classics.

I understand why people didn’t like his person and the way he performed, but not many “artists” let alone (famous) musicians can claim his versatility and talent. Whether that’s being a genius is of course subjective, but uniquely talented is pretty obvious.

super_realist wrote:

beninho wrote:I suppose you have to be able to comprehend Prince, and have a bit of musical knowledge to accept Prince, is pretty clearly a musical genius, you dont have to be a fan of his, but if you are a fan of music you will have to accept it.

Unfortunately Realist, thinks (thought?) Prince is nothing more than a "sappy balladeer" so probably isn't in a position to pass a comment on whether prince is a musical genius or isnt.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/dp5n3v/prince-was-a-genius-no-matter-how-you-define-it-jason-king-2016

It's all about opinion, so why do you think citing someone else's opinion matters and who isn't even part of this forum? I'm sure I could find a citation which gave an opinion that he wasn't a "musical genius" but what would that prove?

You think he was a "genius" I don't, because I don't think he's left a hole or a vacuum in music by kicking the bucket.

Not sure if that's the definition of genius though.

Though, my real quibble is, you have said, you have no real knowledge of Prince apart from the odd song you've heard on the radio. And you think he was a sappy balladeer. Which, I think most music fans, would acknowledge, is not quite correct. Yet, instead of you don't know enough about him or his back catalogue to agree he is a musical genius, you just argue that he isn't.

Yep, its all subjective, but no real need to argue for the sake of it.

Sr2 has named who he thinks are musical geniuses, i dont have enough knowledge on either to argue his point.

If he was a genius, then wouldn't he transcend music a bit more? Wouldn't I know more about this great body of work if he was that important and that influential?

We can argue all day about it, but it's just our opinions. I'm not denying that instrumentally he could certainly play, but so can thousands of people, doesn't make them genius though, which is a term which is widely overused like "legend".

Pedro, you're right though, he wrote some absolute stinkers. Diamonds and Pearls, Purple Rain and Batdance for example. Complete drivel

super_realist wrote:If he was a genius, then wouldn't he transcend music a bit more? Wouldn't I know more about this great body of work if he was that important and that influential?

We can argue all day about it, but it's just our opinions. I'm not denying that instrumentally he could certainly play, but so can thousands of people, doesn't make them genius though, which is a term which is widely overused like "legend".

Pedro, you're right though, he wrote some absolute stinkers. Diamonds and Pearls, Purple Rain and Batdance for example. Complete drivel

How many songs do you know?

But I'm glad we have your opinion, which is someone isnt a musical genius unless SR1 has an extensive knowledge of your music.

Hows your mozart knowledge? Was he a musical genius?

I've probably heard a lot more than I thought I had. I had a look through some of his songs on YouTube and I have to say it's certainly not my cup of tea. I can't deny he's a highly talented musician  though even if I think most of his songs are awful.

Mozart has been pivotal in the history of music, I'm not sure Prince has been. Would people say Prince was a genius if he wasn't dead? I'm not so sure, platitudes tend to engratiate a person once they are brown bread.

I'm not disagreeing with your right to hold the opinion that he's a genius, think that if you like, but I don't see him as such and there's a lot of people like Dylan or Springsteen I wouldn't see as genius' either.

I'm trying to think of musical geniuses. Apart from Mozart, Beethoven and a lot of that ilk.

I'm all in on Stevie Wonder. Modern, i think Pharrell Williams is exceptional due to his varied work and producing skills.

Would we regard Hendrix as a genius for example? He could do things with a guitar that very few if any in popular music could and his importance to the furtherment of hard rock cannot be underestimated. He along with a few others like Cream, Led Zeppelin, original Fleetwood Mac and the Grateful Dead created a bridge between blues and rock thus creating a new genre. Can we say that Prince has had such impact on music and did he possess the same talent?

I personally feel that genius gets over used.

I think Hendrix has certainly been more influential, more creative and placed a far greater footprint on music than Prince even if I don't agree he's the best guitarist.

Hendrix, while obviously very talented. In general I'm a bit meh.

Hendrix was undoubtedly influential. He did lots of things no one else (at least not mainstream) had ever done. Whether he did them well is open to debate but the fact he did them first in the eyes of the general public is beyond question

Many musicians annoy me with their insistence they are "artists" or that their product is "art" and serves to be treated as such, doubly annoying when most of those claiming that title are usually on the low end of talent.

beninho wrote:Hendrix, while obviously very talented. In general I'm a bit meh.

He's more revered than Prince for instance so surely he must be a genius?

I'm just playing devil's advocate Ben here as genius is so subjective, I mentioned Miles Davis as his use of varying time signatures and all round musical excellence places him at a level above the others mentioned. I'm not big into Jazz but ability wise it's a different level altogether to any rock or pop.

A lot comes down to the image some musicians get. Hendrix, Dylan et al came around in a period with cultural revolution, break up in society etc. (60s-70s), and was very much a part of it - why’s why they’ve achieved an iconic status. It was very different in the 80’s and 90’s.

I'd suggest that Grunge came about because of a cultural revolution in the late 80's.

I don't doubt Hendrix could becseen by many as a genius, and he could tick the box.

My thing with Prince, and I'm not really a fan, is the all around musicality. Longevity, the varied musical styles and his instrumental skills, plus songwriting.

Though, i accept how people may not see it like that.

Dylan for me is dreadful. Absolutely terrible voice, songs are mostly dirges and in my view the most overrated musician of the last 60 years. Cannot see anything good about him at all. I simply cannot get any pleasure from listening to him. It's torture, but accept that plenty people love him, even if I can't see why.

Dylan wrote some good songs - just better performed by others rather than him

Soul Requiem wrote:I'd suggest that Grunge came about because of a cultural revolution in the late 80's.

Not sure, just think it was a term coined to lump rock bands together who came from the same area. Not a phrase I like. Soundfsrden, who I love, had been around since the early 80s, and Aic - dirt is obe of the great rock albums - were not really a "grunge" band.

Though, the grunge marketing and Nirvana helped a lot of groups sell more then they probably would have.

Soul Requiem wrote:I'd suggest that Grunge came about because of a cultural revolution in the late 80's.

Agree, thought about that as well. Did Nirvana make one or two albums? And today they almost have an iconic status. Helped by Cobains suicide of course, but nevertheless pretty mindbaffling. Still, I’m not sure how many would call Cobain a genius?

super_realist wrote:Dylan for me is dreadful. Absolutely terrible voice, songs are mostly dirges and in my view the most overrated musician of the last 60 years. Cannot see anything good about him at all. I simply cannot get any pleasure from listening to him. It's torture, but accept that plenty people love him, even if I can't see why.

I think Dylan was a cultural phenomena who wrote some pseudo deep lyrics that went well hand in hand with contemporary cultural trends. He still sticks around due the people who were young back then. Imo he’s too much mumbling, unshavedness and cigaret smoke.

pedro wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:I'd suggest that Grunge came about because of a cultural revolution in the late 80's.

Agree, thought about that as well. Did Nirvana make one or two albums? And today they almost have an iconic status. Helped by Cobains suicide of course, but nevertheless pretty mindbaffling. Still, I’m not sure how many would call Cobain a genius?

3 full albums. All great.

I love Nirvana, mainly because it got me really into music. With some birthday money as a 12 or 13 year old I brought Nevermind and automatic for the people. Love both to this very day.

Nevermind you mean.

At least you could say Grunge went hand in hand with a pretty powerful subculture that emerged as a counter to the 80’s yuppie culture.

super_realist wrote:Nevermind you mean.

Auto correct. Thought I deleted it!

beninho wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:I'd suggest that Grunge came about because of a cultural revolution in the late 80's.

Not sure, just think it was a term coined to lump rock bands together who came from the same area. Not a phrase I like. Soundfsrden, who I love, had been around since the early 80s, and Aic - dirt is obe of the great rock albums - were not really a "grunge" band.

Though, the grunge marketing and Nirvana helped a lot of groups sell more then they probably would have.

Well yes that the grunge scene is made up entirely of bands from the pacific Northwest but it goes far beyond that, it's born from the teen angst of the time and most certainly resulted in a cultural revolution in the youth of the late 80's. Alice in Chains were definitely a Grunge band, they like Soundgarden, Truly, Gruntruck, Love Battery and Green River combined the attitude of punk with the musical sensitivities of heavy metal, nobody encapsulated that more than AIC.

pedro wrote:At least you could say Grunge went hand in hand with a pretty powerful subculture that emerged as a counter to the 80’s yuppie culture.

Exactly, it showed the younger generation of the time that there was another way, it might well have ended up in a cacophony of suicide and drugs but it's impact is still felt today.