Scotland 2020 Internationals

First topic message reminder :

With club rugby in Europe back up and running I thought it might be time to begin a new International thread.

Scotland's Upcoming 2020 International Fixtures

Warm Up

Scotland vs Georgia 23rd October BT Murrayfield (KO TBC)

6 Nations

Wales vs Scotland 31st October 2.15pm KO (venue TBC)

Eight Nations Tournament pool games

Italy vs Scotland November 14th November 12.45pm KO (Venue TBC)

Scotland vs France 22nd November 3pm KO BT Murrayfield

Scotland vs Fiji 28th November 1.45pm KO BT Murrayfield

December 5th Eight Nations play-off matches (1st vs 1st, 2nd vs 2nd, 3rd vs 3rd, 4th vs 4th)

Captain Pugwash really was from another time!

Seaman Staines

Master Bates

Roger the Cabin Boy

Someone was having an absolute laugh when they wrote those characters, can you imagine if they did that today on children's TV!

Highland Shaun

i assume you understand why The Fugitive and The One armed Man are one and the same person?

BigGee wrote:Captain Pugwash really was from another time!

Seaman Staines

Master Bates

Roger the Cabin Boy

Someone was having an absolute laugh when they wrote those characters, can you imagine if they did that today on children's TV!

IMDB wrote:On 13 September 1991 national British newspaper 'The Guardian' claimed that certain characters names could be viewed in a vulgar context (e.g. Master Bates and Seaman Staines). Such character names did not form any part of the series and creator John Ryan successfully won retractions and settlements from both 'The Guardian' and another British newspaper, 'The Sunday Correspondent', which also printed a similar story.

Sadly not true

I still think he was having a laugh!

And a shame to ruin an urban myth!

Duncan Taylor getting a lot of praise on Twitter today and in reply to @jimbopip, nope :-(?

The others confusing me are Flockhart and Frodo.

Shaun, Bruce Flockhart is a young back rower with tremendous potential at Scotstoun. Like Magnus Bradbury on roller skates. And with a brain.
Callista Flockhart is a diminutive American actress best known for playing Ally McBeal.

Frodo The Ponderous is Wee Greg Laidlaw.

D'Arcy Rae missed part of last season after an operation on an arm : he also missed a court appearance for speeding and Police Scotland issued a warrant for his arrest.

https://twitter.com/thistlerugbypod/status/1307345356389220352?s=19.

Thoughts on this interesting tweet from earlier and also one of the comments to it suggesting Glen Young of Harlequins being worthy of a call up :-O?

It really is madness that Tim Swinson and
CHH could be on the verge of winning the Champions Cup.

Tiny Tim is every day of the week a good club player. He’s just not international standard.

Will be interesting to see what happens if Sarries win the euro cup. They won’t qualify for next year, or will they, to defend it which would be most odd.

Part of me wants them to win it to see what happens. The other part of me then remembers they were guilty of cheating on an institutional level and shouldn’t even be in this years tournament as a result.

Swinson is not coming back into the Scotland squad. He is only filling in for their season in the championship for Ssrries when they won't be playing Itoje all thst much.

Any euro glory is a bonus for him but he will retire properly at the end of the coming season.

CHH on the other hand is starting to filfill his promise of a few years back. He could yet be the squad bolter!

https://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/hotshots/hotshot-northampton-saints-centre-fraser-dingwall-110429.

Is this article hinting at a change of nations likely for Fraser Dingwall :-O?

I don't think any of these dual qualified players want to burn any bridges and why should they.

So much will depend on luck and/or circumstance.

He certainly looks a good player and i would have hoped Toonie would sound him out.

I'd love it if Toonie names him in Scotland's squad for the Autumn. He looks a sharp player, I'd be very happy to see him move towards Scotland rather than try and get more England involvement. It would be great having him and Hutchinson playing together and for Scotland as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if EJ involved him again with potentially one appearance in the 8Ns autumn championship whatever it is. It'll be a tough season to cap Scottish EQ players imo, they're going to be more likely to get opportunity with England just as fringe players will more likely get opportunity with Scotland.

You never know though, he may yet change his mind.

The money is probably much closer than it has been. England reduced the cap rate from £25k to c. £17k and the weekly rate for training has gone down as well.

From Dingwall's perspective, maybe he has realised that Tuilagi may be around until RWC2023 along with Farrell, Slade, Joseph and Marchant who are all different sorts of players to him. EJ has a history of picking players two or three times before sticking to his favourites. Ollie Lawrence, the Worcester centre, may end up being the big bruising centre to replace/back up Tuilagi.

When I have watched a (very) limited amount of Northampton, Hutchinson and Dingwall seem to have a habit of falling off a couple of tackles a game that I would like to see stamped out. Otherwise, both are talented with the ball in attack.

Wales game scheduled for Parc y Scarlets in October and, according to the SRU twitter account, DVDM scored on his last outing there .

Hopefully the squad will be announced in the next few weeks so we have something to chat about :P.

Shame it isn't in London I was gonna try go to this one but that got ruined by the new outbreak anyway. Oh well.. Yes I guess the squad must be coming out soon if it is less than a month until Georgia at home. Looking forward to seeing who gets selected and who misses out.

The SRU have cleverly setup a 2020/2021 membership programme that includes a ballot for international tickets and some other minor benefits to help gain some much needed capital. I've bought the Nevis membership just incase we can indeed attend matches later this year and hopefully the 6 Nations next year.Seems a good way for the SRU to generate some money though. Usually season membership would be a lot more expensive than that but I guess that usually guarantees tickets for all of Scotland's matches.

Scots in the semi-finals of Europe

Saracens - Swinson, Taylor and Maitland starting, Hunter-Hill on bench

Exeter - J Gray, Sam Skinner (at 7????) and Hogg starting, SHC on bench

Racing - Russell starts

Leicester - Scott starts

Aye Taylor sounds like he's having an Indian summer after having time to recover from injury. I'd still welcome his involvement for another season if he's on form!

Also Skinner at 7, watch this space. I expect Toonie will want him in the back row, probably at 6.

NeilyBroon wrote:Aye Taylor sounds like he's having an Indian summer after having time to recover from injury. I'd still welcome his involvement for another season if he's on form!

Just got gubbed again for Sarries and isn’t looking too happy

tigertattie wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:Aye Taylor sounds like he's having an Indian summer after having time to recover from injury. I'd still welcome his involvement for another season if he's on form!

Just got gubbed again for Sarries and isn’t looking too happy

Ah sh*te. That lad has no luck. Reckon that's his last chance gone if it's bad again.

Finn Russell really is looking chubby isn't he. Hopefully a period of time away from croissants and UK conditioning coaching will improve that!

NeilyBroon wrote:Also Skinner at 7, watch this space. I expect Toonie will want him in the back row, probably at 6.

I think that would be a wise decision, although perhaps he should be starting at 8? He is too good a player to just be benching as a lock or blindside. The new game plan would suit an abrasive defender and carrier like himself rather than a mobile blindside.

Ritchie, Watson, Skinner anyone? Haining, Bradbury or CDP on the bench?

Caught up on some of the Exeter highlights and Hogg looks as fit as he was back in 2016/17. He really has come on a lot since leaving Glasgow and seems to be hitting his best form now. Exciting times in terms of Scotland's international window.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12365705

Apparently Ian Foster is going to reinforce his initial All Blacks squad with another 10-11 players. Christie is being touted as a contender to be added to the squad.

Exeter's 7 doesn't really play like a normal 7, I wouldn't read too much in to it.

bsando wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:Also Skinner at 7, watch this space. I expect Toonie will want him in the back row, probably at 6.

I think that would be a wise decision, although perhaps he should be starting at 8? He is too good a player to just be benching as a lock or blindside. The new game plan would suit an abrasive defender and carrier like himself rather than a mobile blindside.

Ritchie, Watson, Skinner anyone? Haining, Bradbury or CDP on the bench?

Caught up on some of the Exeter highlights and Hogg looks as fit as he was back in 2016/17. He really has come on a lot since leaving Glasgow and seems to be hitting his best form now. Exciting times in terms of Scotland's international window.

If Watson, Skinner and Ritchie were the back row I'd prefer Skinner at 8. I'd put Fagerson at 8 with Skinner on the BS and Watson openside which would give a good mix of mobility, scavenging and grunt. I'd put Haining with Ritchie and Watson. Bradbury with maybe Crosbie and another.

Watson at 8 surely given his carrying ability. The 'false 8' like Pocock. Ritchie at 7, Skinner at 6. That looks like the best Scottish back row to me with some beef at #20 to come off the bench if they're getting overpowered.

Skinner has played 8 several times for Exeter, Watson has never played 8 to my knowledge.

I am not sure I would want a Skinner - Watson - Ritchie back row with either Skinner or Watson at 8. Skinner is not a dominant carrier, albeit he is effective. To get away with Skinner at 8, we would need a carrier in the second row like R Gray to support him. Ideally, Skinner can play an Itoje-esque role for Scotland as an overly dynamic second row with a serious work rate to free up the back-row.

Great to see that up to (probably) five Scots players will be among the 46 in the final. These are the sort of club games that our top players need to be in if we are going to get past the hump of winning close games internationally.

Yes but again the numbers in the Exeter back row don't correlate to 'normal' back row positions. Hence Don Armand playing 7. It just seems obvious that Watson is the best carrier in the Scotland back row. That lends itself to 8. Skinner is still a 'blindside lock'. I don't think he's an international 8.

Can we stop with the moving away our best player from his actual position chat?? Hamish Watson (7) should henceforth be his name.

I would like to see more of Haining at 8 - he took to international rugby really well in the 6N and has all the attributes to do well there IMO. Particularly with Bradbury still not exactly setting the heather alight, and Fagerson the smaller still to convince.

Skinner is a handy bench option to have IMO.

My 23 for the Georgia and Wales games:


1 Sutherland
2 Brown (McInally has not looked good lately)
3 Fagerson
4 J Gray
5 Cumings (GG has been a real workhorse for Edinburgh, but doesn't pair well with Gray)
6 Ritchie
7 Watson
8 Haining

9 Price
10 Russell  
11 VDM  
12 Hutchinson (this is a key selection choice IMO - I don't actually know where he'll go with this)
13 Harris
14 Graham
15 Hogg

Subs - Kebble, McInally, Nel/Berghan, Skinner (Gilchrist either needs to start or not be in the 23 - he's not an impact player), Bradbury/Fagerson, Horne, Hastings, Jones


I can't help but think we need Maitland in there somewhere to steady the ship, but I'd really, really, really like to see that back 3, particularly with the distribution they would get from Russell and Hutchinson.

I know what you mean on Maitland. I think I'd like to see Maitland start ahead of Graham and have Graham at 23 simply because Maitland in terms of Scotland's results is probably most deserving to retain his spot.

I'm intrigued to see who starts at 4/5 and 12/13 for this run of international games. However, I think Toonie being Toonie will mix it up quite a bit and hopefully by the final fixture he'll have a gameday XXIII that he thinks is right going by form.

I'll be so excited if Christie gets called up, that could be a game changer for igniting Russell and brining the likes of DVDM and Hogg into the game more. Scotland's attack was very rusty in the 6N. A bit like a Land Rover trying to perform like a sports car.

Also, I noticed Cotter has put together a pretty formidable coaching team to help Fiji become the team we all know they could potentially be. That is probably the banana skin Scotland need to be prepared for most.

bsando wrote:I know what you mean on Maitland. I think I'd like to see Maitland start ahead of Graham and have Graham at 23 simply because Maitland in terms of Scotland's results is probably most deserving to retain his spot.

I'm intrigued to see who starts at 4/5 and 12/13 for this run of international games. However, I think Toonie being Toonie will mix it up quite a bit and hopefully by the final fixture he'll have a gameday XXIII that he thinks is right going by form.

I'll be so excited if Christie gets called up, that could be a game changer for igniting Russell and brining the likes of DVDM and Hogg into the game more. Scotland's attack was very rusty in the 6N. A bit like a Land Rover trying to perform like a sports car.

Maitland instead of VdM imo. He's still unproven at international so should start on the bench and Maitland has been one of our best players for the last 5 years. VdM I imagine will end up being our starter for the foreseeable future so there's no rush, especially when we have class like Maitland and Graham kicking about. Darcy has also proven himself at international and, like Maitland, I think is a better all rounder than VdM.

I'd like to see us return to an offloading game as that seems to work for us best in attack. We're back to a place where we struggle for quick ball so we need to add a few strings to our bow so we can avoid long rucks ruining our attack. Alternatively we need to get wiser at the breakdown. How we played when Richie gray was coaching was probably the ideal. Fast and aggressive rucks with less players committed and a bit of a pod system going forward.

I suppose it comes down to how he seems these upcoming fixtures. If winning is all that matters then start Maitland. If he's already building for the next cycle then VDM has to start IMO - Maitland isn't going to be around for much longer at international level.

Georgia first up is an ideal first cap opportunity - he could run riot. I'd love to see what he can do in a decent backline given how good he's been in a DUncan Hodge coached Edinburgh backline!

RDW wrote:I suppose it comes down to how he seems these upcoming fixtures. If winning is all that matters then start Maitland. If he's already building for the next cycle then VDM has to start IMO - Maitland isn't going to be around for much longer at international level.

Georgia first up is an ideal first cap opportunity - he could run riot. I'd love to see what he can do in a decent backline given how good he's been in a DUncan Hodge coached Edinburgh backline!

Aye I think Hodge has probably ruined the chance of Bennett getting much more international game time!

Agree with RDW on the 23 except for Hutchinson. I reckon Toonie will stick with the tried and tested Johnson. Scott has been good at Leicester and probably has an argument to be the next cab off the rank at 12.

Would prefer not to have to go immediately to Kebble, it sums up how far Dell has fallen off the pace. Marfo and Bhatti had moments before disappearing. Hopefully this series gives us two consistent options!

I think Marfo is still with Ospreys who are rebuilding their squad and reputation so hopefully he can make an impact there. I haven't seen much of Dell so don't know how well he is doing at LI but would be good to have depth to support Sutherland and Kebble who will probably be the go to Looseheads going forwards.

Yes I think DVDM may run riot too! I don't think he can cover fullback which was why I thought he may as well just start rather than feature from the bench. However, Maitland could always just switch to FB if Hogg picked up an injury and DVDM would switch to wing to make it DVDM, Graham, Maitland. So you're right Neilly, perhaps a bench slot would be a better introduction for him. Toonie may want to play Kinghorn at FB for that game actually now I think of it, he could do with more international experience.

Harris seems a dead cert to start at 13 to me. Johnson hasn't played in a long time so hopefully he can start this weekend against Connacht and again at home to Scarlets.

bsando wrote:I think Marfo is still with Ospreys who are rebuilding their squad and reputation so hopefully he can make an impact there. I haven't seen much of Dell so don't know how well he is doing at LI but would be good to have depth to support Sutherland and Kebble who will probably be the go to Looseheads going forwards.

Yes I think DVDM may run riot too! I don't think he can cover fullback which was why I thought he may as well just start rather than feature from the bench. However, Maitland could always just switch to FB if Hogg picked up an injury and DVDM would switch to wing to make it DVDM, Graham, Maitland. So you're right Neilly, perhaps a bench slot would be a better introduction for him. Toonie may want to play Kinghorn at FB for that game actually now I think of it, he could do with more international experience.

Harris seems a dead cert to start at 13 to me. Johnson hasn't played in a long time so hopefully he can start this weekend against Connacht and again at home to Scarlets.

Interesting point on fullback cover. With Huw Jones now also covering, Darcy Graham and in a pinch Adam Hastings will Blair kinghorn become more of a luxury item?

He's looked a bit greedy recently at Edinburgh. Is he going through a phase like Hogg did or is he trying too hard to get noticed? It's a shame as a few years later or earlier he'd be easily in the 23. I guess technically he's only one injury away from a start but will spend a large part of his career as second fiddle at best.

Kinghorn is still prone to making one howler per game and they are often expensive ones

I think he needs to up his game to be in the match day 23 just now and i thjnk he will have to with the competition. Jones has shown he is a more than adequate FB and may well offer more from the bench

Kinghorn has fallen back a bit as teams are able to key in on him. He has to develop alternative ways to attack as he seems to be a bit too in love with running it back and having the blinkers on. His tackling can be somewhat suspect as well and his work in the air needs consistency.

It is a shame for him professionally, however it should drive him to be better. Maitland is rapidly approaching the end of his career and Kinghorn can either become Liam Williams and work on his game or he can see himself passed by the next Glasgow FB (Jones or Ollie Smith).

Agreed that Kinghorn hasn't been great recently and may actually benefit from a kick up the bum by not making the 23. Alternatively a confidence boosting run out against Georgia could do him good (that's summing we get a good win over them!).

The Champions Cup final is 6 days before the Georgia game so I don't think any of Gray, Skinner, Russell or Hogg should play in that game. That could free up playing Maitland at fullback to get VDM his start. I don't see the point in having VDM on the bench. Jones could take the 23 shirt to give him 25 minutes at fullback.

I didn't select Johnson as he hasn't played yet since the season restart. Anyone know if he's fit?

It's been very quiet but I think he's expected back for Glasgow at the beginning of the season from what I understand. So agree that he should wait to return for Scotland.

Id be tempted to start Lang with Hutchinson against Georgia to see what he can do in a Scotland shirt. Them, Harris and Scott have had the most gametime of our centres. Alternatively I'd love to see Bennett at OC but expect he may miss out.

Do we really think Laing has what it takes at this level...? He's been ok for Harlequins without setting the heather alight. I think we have better options worth pursuing.

Toonie had a look at him a while ago and he hasn't been picked since, so he maybe came to the same conclusion.

He was also injured for a large portion of the time he wasn't selected. If we're looking to the future a bit it'd be good to have more cover at 12. Lang is a big lad, has experience at 10 and is a decent distributor without being flash. He may not be first choice but is a good solid option that I think we'd be silly not to consider, especially looking at how Harris has come on in the last season with Scotland.

I prefer Scott but acknowledge that he hasn't got long left of his international career. McDowell still needs to show his best stuff before he can be considered for selection, the same could be said for paddy Kelly. Only youngn I'd consider atm is George Taylor. I think Christine would be ragged about a bit at international level like Pete Horne was.

Back 3 is a real conundrum.  We have Graham who is tiny but fast as and a real jinky runner but prone to getting a bit over excited.  Maitland - Mr Steady who reads the game so well and makes no mistakes.  duhan who is a force of nature but obviously unproven internationally but who has been improving every match, Hogg who needs nothing said about him other than - pure class.  Kinghorn - Fabulous talent and a silky smooth runner.  all can play FB or wing bar Duhan ( or even 10), all with a good claim on a starting place, all very different types of players.

i think its a really tricky selection decision

I would go Graham, Hogg, Duhan with Maitland as supersub

Not sure about Maitland as a sub, he will give you just about everything else, but not necessarily impact.

Graham, DVDM, Jones or Blairhorn for impact.

Maitland is there to keep the ship steady!

If I was selecting for Wales in a months time, I'd probably be looking at 15. Hogg 14. Graham 11. Maitland and 23. DVDM (for impact in that final 20-30). I think Maitland has to be starting and DVDM should be working his way up to a starting berth in the Autumn Nations Cup. International rugby is a big step up for every player no matter how good they are. And after reading some thoughts above I think I agree with those who say that DVDM would benefit from being introduced gradually to find his feet a bit.

And on Kinghorn, Liam Williams should definitely be the player he wants to emulate. They're very similar players aren't they? And Kinghorn has the ability to be just as good as him. He needs to work on his all round game though. His attack is electric but if he starts passing more he'll be even better. Hogg is doing that now at Exeter, in fact he did everything right in their semi to put the Exeter 9 under the sticks in the second half only for the 9 to slip while trying a step that wasn't on.

Tend to agree Bsando. DVDM has the habit of not committing to the tackle that Wales will want to exploit. He is better going forward than defending on high balls so want to have the consistent Maitland over him for a game that could be worth a £1m in prize money and Scotland really should be favourites to take.

If Kinghorn get his work under the high ball and tackling even to Seymour's level (let alone L Williams), he will get into the side more frequently than not.

Lang has the size to be more imposing on the game than he is. He is only 25 so could develop further but right now Johnson and Scott are definitively ahead of him. He is in the chasing pack with D Taylor, G Taylor, Dean and McDowall