The French Open 2020

First topic message reminder :

With the draw about to be made for RG, I thought I would get this topic going.

For me - and I say this every year - Rafa is clear favourite, although the strange nature of all sport this Covid-19 year might mean someone else (Thiem? Djoko?) might have a chance.

Halep stands out as the women's favourite, particularly as some of the top women are not appearing. More on this after the draw.

Swiatek gets the final going with a hold to love.

Excellent start from Swiatek who leads 3-0.

Kenin got it back to 3-3 but then dropped serve to give Swiatek a chance to serve out the first set at 5-3. But she missed a relatively easy shot on set point and got broken. It's 4-5.

Bit scrappy with both women looking a little tense. Some good shots but quite a few UEs.

Kenin then drops serve for the third time in the set to give Swiatek the first set 6-4.

Too many UEs for it to be considered a good match. Neither player has been that consistent. Swiatek looks more relaxed in the longer rallies, while Kenin seems too eager to go for the big winner.

Couldn’t pay me to watch women’s tennis. The past 10 years had been the worst era of women’s tennis I have ever witnessed

Medical time outs always leave a sour taste in the mouth.

Swiatek in touching distance of the trophy as she leads 4-1 in the second set.

Far too many UEs from Kenin who had to take an MTO in the second set.

slashermcguirk wrote:Couldn’t pay me to watch women’s tennis. The past 10 years had been the worst era of women’s tennis I have ever witnessed

I stopped watching when the shriekers began to dominate their game. There was also a time when the women's sport became political and subsidiary with the Williams sisters wearing weird outfits including negligees to sell Venus' clothes line.

Swiatek is steam-rolling Kenin in the second set.

1 hour and 24 minutes and we have a new Grand Slam winner - Swiatek 6-4 6-1.

All over as Swiatek takes the last six games and the title - 6-4, 6-1.

Don't know if Kenin was hampered by injury but there were numerous UEs and she just could not put Swiatek under any sustained pressure.

So we have another teenage women's GS champion and the list of Slam winners is extended.

Immense win for 19-year-old Swiatek. She wins the French Open steam-rollering Kenin 6-4 6-1. A forst ever Slam champion from Poland and her first ever title (never mind slam). Incredible. She hits her ground shots with such power and Kenin found it too much. A new star landed on the women's tennis scene. From qualifier in her first slam to slam champion all in two weeks.

Well done.

Yes, this is a remarkable achievement by Swiatek. It will be interesting to see how she gets on now.

She's a GS champ and everyone will want to beat her. It's an old cliche but it's worth repeating that it's harder to stay at the top than to get there (think Ostapenko, Bouchard to name but two).

For the time being, we should reflect that an untitled, unseeded 19-yr-old didn't drop a set, and conceded very few games, beating two GS champs on the way to a Slam title.

Wouldn’t be surprised if one set in the final tomorrow is longer than that women’s final. Women’s final are so often a disaster, wasn’t the Wimbledon final last year about 50 mins long. Just awful

I make that 17* current women players holding Slam titles.

* If you include Kim Clijsters.

slashermcguirk wrote:Wouldn’t be surprised if one set in the final tomorrow is longer than that women’s final. Women’s final are so often a disaster, wasn’t the Wimbledon final last year about 50 mins long. Just awful

Slasher - you might not have been too pleased with Wimbledon 2005 when the women's final was longer than the men's.

I know exactly what slashermcguirk means and there is no need to delve into the annals of the sport to find an exception to discount the point being made. Having followed the various arguments I am swayed by the argument that it is ultimately the paying punter that decides what they want to see or what they don't want to see. However many people still find the women's game entertaining and we shouldn't dismiss that opinion either.

The fact you had to go back 15 years to find an example says it all. Check out women’s French open final in 1988. Steffi Graf won 6-0 6-0 in 32 minutes. Had you hit traffic on the way to the match you would have probably arrived at the presentation ceremony

sirfredperry wrote:

slashermcguirk wrote:Wouldn’t be surprised if one set in the final tomorrow is longer than that women’s final. Women’s final are so often a disaster, wasn’t the Wimbledon final last year about 50 mins long. Just awful

Slasher - you might not have been too pleased with Wimbledon 2005 when the women's final was longer than the men's.

Does a mockery of equal prize money something I have never really understood.

Graf conceded just 20 games during the whole of the 88 French Open which included 9 in the semi against Sabatini

slashermcguirk wrote:The fact you had to go back 15 years to find an example says it all. Check out women’s French open final in 1988. Steffi Graf won 6-0 6-0 in 32 minutes.

The total time spent bouncing the ball tomorrow will probably be twice that!

JHM - Re the Djoko bouncing ball thing. I've been watching on ITV4 (Ch24) but a guy I play tennis with has been viewing the French on satellite/cable/Eurosport or whatever it's on.

He says commentator Frew McMillan had a long tirade on air against the Djoko repeated bouncing. I think they counted a 17-bounce one.

Wonder how many bounces he's allowed before the umpire steps in.

Soul Requiem wrote:Does a mockery of equal prize money something I have never really understood.

Graf conceded just 20 games during the whole of the 88 French Open which included 9 in the semi against Sabatini

I have nothing against equal prize money at the majors, after all, the crowds are generally the same, and I'm sure that more people are interested in a Serena Williams match than watching two unheard of men battling out a five setter. But the women should at the very least be playing five sets in the final of a major, maybe even from the quarter finals on.

Steffi Graf in 1988 was the greatest tennis player ever. That year alone she won the calendar year grand slam and the Olympic gold medal. All in one year! I would bet that may never be achieved in the 21st century.

The funny thing is the year after she was one match away from winning the calendar year slam again !! You also look at who she was beating in those finals, Martina Navoratilova, Chris Evert among others.

Graf hands down the greatest female player in my opinion. She had much tougher opposition than Williams. Navoratilova, Evert, Seles, Sanchez vicario, Sabbatini, Hingis (towards end of Grafs career but Graf even beat her in slam final), capriati and others


quote="Soul Requiem"]Does a mockery of equal prize money something I have never really understood.

Graf conceded just 20 games during the whole of the 88 French Open which included 9 in the semi against Sabatini [/quote]

I think Nadal statistically takes longer between points than Novak on average. I agree as a fan that he bounces the ball too much. Watch tomorrow though, Nadal often takes even longer getting ready to serve. A lot of fidgeting

quote="sirfredperry"]JHM - Re the Djoko bouncing ball thing. I've been watching on ITV4 (Ch24) but a guy I play tennis with has been viewing the French on satellite/cable/Eurosport or whatever it's on.

He says commentator Frew McMillan had a long tirade on air against the Djoko repeated bouncing. I think they counted a 17-bounce one.

Wonder how many bounces he's allowed before the umpire steps in.[/quote]

Atila wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Does a mockery of equal prize money something I have never really understood.

Graf conceded just 20 games during the whole of the 88 French Open which included 9 in the semi against Sabatini

I have nothing against equal prize money at the majors, after all, the crowds are generally the same, and I'm sure that more people are interested in a Serena Williams match than watching two unheard of men battling out a five setter. But the women should at the very least be playing five sets in the final of a major, maybe even from the quarter finals on.

Are more people interested in watching Federer, Nadal and Djokovic or Willians, Halep etc?

sirfredperry wrote:JHM - Re the Djoko bouncing ball thing. I've been watching on ITV4 (Ch24) but a guy I play tennis with has been viewing the French on satellite/cable/Eurosport or whatever it's on.

He says commentator Frew McMillan had a long tirade on air against the Djoko repeated bouncing. I think they counted a 17-bounce one.

Wonder how many bounces he's allowed before the umpire steps in.

As many as he wants within the 25 second limit. I read once that the time limit was brought it because one guy used to bounce the ball 40 or 50 times. Not sure if that's a true story of not.
Next time you're warming up on court, try bouncing the ball 15 times before practicing a serve - it takes a ridiculous amount of time.

I also agree with slasher - Nadal takes just as long if not longer. As much as admire their tennis skills, I generally find I can't watch entire matches between the two because the in-play to not-in-play ratio is such that I get bored with it.

TV ratings and crowds for top men’s matches infinitely higher than the women’s. there is no comparison

Soul Requiem wrote:

Atila wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Does a mockery of equal prize money something I have never really understood.

Graf conceded just 20 games during the whole of the 88 French Open which included 9 in the semi against Sabatini

I have nothing against equal prize money at the majors, after all, the crowds are generally the same, and I'm sure that more people are interested in a Serena Williams match than watching two unheard of men battling out a five setter. But the women should at the very least be playing five sets in the final of a major, maybe even from the quarter finals on.

Are more people interested in watching Federer, Nadal and Djokovic or Willians, Halep etc?

I'll get shot down for this no doubt but I think the time the pair take between points has been the difference between Federer winning three extra Wimbledon titles.

In the past the strength in depth in the women's game was shallow with most tournaments playing as seeded and with early rounds filled with 6-0 6-0, 6-1 6-0, 6-0 6-1, 6-2 6-0 etc matches that lasted maybe 40 minutes. Since then the women's game has evolved.

Who is going to come out on top in this 56th meeting between Rafa and Djoko?

This is their ninth GS final match, and after Rafa dominated the early head-to-head meetings, Novak has now edged ahead overall at 29-26.

Most years when Rafa has got to the RG final - and that's been nearly every year since his first triumph in 2005 - it's merely been a question of how many sets, sometimes merely how many games, his opponent will get.

This year is different in that the guy at the other end of the court is his great rival Novak - one of only two guys to beat Rafa at the French.

Chuck in the fact that it's colder than the usual early-June finish, the Wilson balls are heavier, and there's been only a very short clay-court season and you are looking at much more of an even contest than the usual Rafa demolition job in an RG final.

I'm still predicting a Rafa win this afternoon. But Djoko is likely to make it tough. The Serb can - and has - pointed to his win over Rafa at the French in 2015 as an inspiration.

Also, Djoko smashed Rafa in their last GS title match in Melbourne last year.

But I think Rafa will have the edge today.

For me Rafa to win in four sets. We all know he is the greatest clay court player of all-time by some margin. Djokovic is great on clay (the best after Rafa) but not quite in Nadal's class. Djokovic would stand a chance certainly if things had looked better coming in. Perhaps still carrying an injury and on the back of a gruelling semi tells me its not the ideal way to go into a final against Rafa. A lot will depend on if Novak can hang in there in sets until the business end where Rafa may get tight and offer up chances. I just have a feeling that Rafa comes in fresher, fitter and with less going on in the background.

Even as a big Djokovic fan, it’s hard to see a Novak win today. I think he will give it one heck of a fight but will come up short. In any other slam I would make Djokovic favourite but Nadal is a beast at the French open.

If Novak does win today that could arguably be his crowning moment of his career, even bigger than beating Federer in 3 Wimbledon finals.

Nadal in 4 sets but hope I am wrong obviously

Slasher - Yes, a win against Rafa in the final of the Spaniard's favourite and most-successful tournament would be an outstanding achievement for Djoko.

If Djoko is to win today I can't see him doing it in three sets, so it would have to be four or five.

Some have spoken of Djoko's possible fatigue after a long semi. But little is said about the fact that Rafa is now 34 and would also be feeling it if it's a long match today.

As it is yet another Slam will be won by a 30-something. Thiem managed to win in New York a few weeks ago but before that the last Slam won by an under-30, I think, was Murray's 2016 Wimbledon triumph.

I had a look at Djokovic's record at Roland Garros over the past decade:
2011: Got to semis - lost to an inspired Federer in 4 sets
2012: Lost in final in 4 sets to Nadal (after 3 consecutive slam finals where he'd beaten Nadal)
2013: Lost in semi-finals in 5 set classic to Nadal
2014: Lost in final in 4 sets to Nadal
2015: Beat Nadal in quarters (straight sets!) but lost to Wawrinka playing lights out tennis in final
2016: Won the title, beating Murray in final. Nadal didn't play
2017: Lost in quarters in straight sets to Thiem
2018: Lost in quarters in 4 sets to Cecchinato playing match of his life
2019: Lost in semis to Thiem in tight 5 setter

So other than the Cecchinato loss, Djokovic has lost to Nadal or other top claycourters - Thiem, Wawrinka over past few years. No matches between the two at Roland Garros over past 5 years. Nadal does have a commanding head-to-head lead on clay but Djokovic did beat him 5 years ago at Roland Garros, and has beaten him in Rome and Monte Carlo too.

I'm going against the grain here but I actually think Djokovic will win. Nadal of course is a monster at Roland Garros, but Djokovic is the only player who has a mental advantage over him in tight situations and can match him for fitness in those gruelling rallies. I do think we are in for a good match regardless of outcome though.

Its also a v significant match in terms of legacy of either player. If Nadal wins he matches Federer's 20 slams. If Djokovic wins, not only does it take him up to 18 and give an excellent chance of surpassing both players, it also gives him 2 of each slam, a feat which neither Federer nor Nadal have managed.

You would have thought the feat of winning each of the Slams twice in the Open Era would certainly not have been beyond the Big 3.

The problem, of course, has been the French. Rafa has so dominated at RG that Rog and Novak have only been able to win it once.

Rafa's problem has been the AO where Rog has a good record and Djoko an even better one.

But as long as Rafa is playing I think he has more chance of winning in Melbourne than Djoko has of winning in Paris.

Roof closed. Does that favour anyone?

Nadal breaks, Djokovic played too many drop shots

An immediate break for Rafa.

Nadal holds after Djokovic made it interesting at deuce

Nadal breaks again 3-0. Djokovic first serve % is under 35% so far.

Already some good rallies but a DF from Djoko contributes to a second break for Rafa.

Looking ominous already, Djokovic serving so poor

Djokovic seems to be loosening up but Nadal saves 3 BP, 4-0 to Spaniard

Djoko played wonderfully well in that fourth game but still couldn't break.

This is a tremendous start from Rafa.

Djokovic gets broken from 40-0 up, Nadal 5-0 crazy level for the Spaniard

Imminent medical time out coming do we think?

Crikey what an anti climax

Rafa's been ridiculously good so far.

Djokovic's first serve has deserted him. He'll never get back into this match unless it improves considerably.

Nadal wins first set 6-0, first bagel in the final since Nadal handed one to Federer in 2008.