The French Open 2020

First topic message reminder :

With the draw about to be made for RG, I thought I would get this topic going.

For me - and I say this every year - Rafa is clear favourite, although the strange nature of all sport this Covid-19 year might mean someone else (Thiem? Djoko?) might have a chance.

Halep stands out as the women's favourite, particularly as some of the top women are not appearing. More on this after the draw.

Gotta say very disappointed with Novak, so so poor. Nadal has been excellent though, you have to make him work for it though. 6-0 is criminal for a player of Novak’s experience

Wow, rafa so good and Djoko poor by his standards. I still expect at least 4 sets here though.

Just like that..I don't think Novak playing badly.nadal just ridiculous

Djokovic saves 3BP 1-0

Finally, finally Djoko gets on the board...

Nadal holds 1-1, Djokovic more aggressive at the start of the second set.

Nadal breaks 2-1

Man I was really hoping for an epic match! This is looking very routine for Nadal.

This is an embarrassing performance. Novak really needs to wake up and make him play

Rafa is playing an almost-perfect match. Very few UEs, excellent defence and devastating attacking play.

Nadal breaks again 4-1, the Spaniard is playing a level rarely seen before

Never thought I would say this but tempted to switch off. Biggest anti climax ever

Jeff Navarro wrote:Nadal breaks again 4-1, the Spaniard is playing a level rarely seen before

Not sure about that - Djokovic is somewhat gifting it to him with a very high amount of unforced errors.

One guy not serving well and, despite fighting hard, making a lot of UEs. The other guy playing faultlessly. Result? A right drubbing.

Anyone know how many points Djokovic won in the first set? The beeb & itv seem intent on plumbing Denise Lewis levels of inanity rather than giving any stat which might be interesting.

Definitely still feel this is a combo of Nadal playing great and novak poorly. He's missed so many routine shots, not even making Nadal work hard for it! Makes me laugh a bit given what Ivanisevic was reported to have said about the match up between these two. Amusing to see such arrogance get squashed.

Galted wrote:Anyone know how many points Djokovic won in the first set?  The beeb & itv seem intent on plumbing Denise Lewis levels of inanity rather than giving any stat which might be interesting.

There were quite a few deuce games, so probably more than you might think, given it was 6-0

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Nadal breaks again 4-1, the Spaniard is playing a level rarely seen before

Not sure about that - Djokovic is somewhat gifting it to him with a very high amount of unforced errors.

Nadal’s level is so high he’s making Djokovic do too much

Djokovic holds 2-5

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Galted wrote:Anyone know how many points Djokovic won in the first set?  The beeb & itv seem intent on plumbing Denise Lewis levels of inanity rather than giving any stat which might be interesting.

There were quite a few deuce games, so probably more than you might think, given it was 6-0

I was thinking it was quite high, wondering in particular if he got near 24 which would be enough to win a set in theory.

Also wondering what the most points anyone's won before winning their first game was, this must be up there.

No reaction from djokovic, no body language. Seems so disinterested

Galted wrote:Anyone know how many points Djokovic won in the first set?  The beeb & itv seem intent on plumbing Denise Lewis levels of inanity rather than giving any stat which might be interesting.

Djoko won 19 points in the first set to Rafa's 32.

Nadal wins second set 6-0 6-2 will be the mother of all comebacks from here.

Galted wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Galted wrote:Anyone know how many points Djokovic won in the first set?  The beeb & itv seem intent on plumbing Denise Lewis levels of inanity rather than giving any stat which might be interesting.

There were quite a few deuce games, so probably more than you might think, given it was 6-0

I was thinking it was quite high, wondering in particular if he got near 24 which would be enough to win a set in theory.

Also wondering what the most points anyone's won before winning their first game was, this must be up there.

He won 19 points.

Thanks, sirfred and Julius.

slashermcguirk wrote:No reaction from djokovic, no body language. Seems so disinterested

Yeah, that is a bit puzzling.

Just a case of Djoko now trying to make the third set respectable.

Where is the fighting spirit that Novak is known for? Never seen him so abysmal. Cannot believe that score line. I don’t understand why he doesn’t go into rallies with Rafa, just handing him points going for crazy winners. Make the guy work for it

One wonders when UEs become forced errors. Of course DFs and awful blunders go into the UE category.

But today, for example, we've seen Djoko hit three or four good shots only for Rafa to play excellent defensive shots. Frustrated, Djoko goes for a big-shot winner which goes just out. OK, officially that's a UE. Thoughts?

sirfredperry wrote:One wonders when UEs become forced errors. Of course DFs and awful blunders go into the UE category.

But today, for example, we've seen Djoko hit three or four good shots only for Rafa to play excellent defensive shots. Frustrated, Djoko goes for a big-shot winner which goes just out. OK, officially that's a UE. Thoughts?

No-one is forcing a lack of patience

Talking of the number of points won, Rafa smashed Rog at RG in the 2008 final. Federer only won FOUR games and won just 52 points.

Novak is now on 49 points won.

Not really surprised, to be honest. I started thinking Nadal would win this tournament without dropping a set around the L16/QF stage, and that's what is set to happen now.

Djokovic has been out of sorts for patches of this tournament against his last three opponents - same thing here, only now he's playing the greatest clay-courter of all time, and is getting thrashed as a result.

It's been a mostly forgettable French Open, bar the Schwartzman/Thiem match and parts of Djokovic/Tsitsipas.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

sirfredperry wrote:One wonders when UEs become forced errors. Of course DFs and awful blunders go into the UE category.

But today, for example, we've seen Djoko hit three or four good shots only for Rafa to play excellent defensive shots. Frustrated, Djoko goes for a big-shot winner which goes just out. OK, officially that's a UE. Thoughts?

No-one is forcing a lack of patience*

* Perhaps we can call them LPs - and keep a record of them!

Djokovic saves BP 2-1

Nadal holds to 30, 2-2

Nadal breaks Djokovic to love 3-2

This is beyond an embarrassing performance from Djokovic, woeful service game hands the break

What was happening to Nadal in 2015 at RG when he lost tamely to Djokovic 7-5 6-3 6-1? Then in 2016 he pulled out in the third round. I thought Nadal was finished and Djokovic, Wawrinka and possible Murray would take over.

sirfredperry wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

sirfredperry wrote:One wonders when UEs become forced errors. Of course DFs and awful blunders go into the UE category.

But today, for example, we've seen Djoko hit three or four good shots only for Rafa to play excellent defensive shots. Frustrated, Djoko goes for a big-shot winner which goes just out. OK, officially that's a UE. Thoughts?

No-one is forcing a lack of patience*

* Perhaps we can call them LPs - and keep a record of them!

He's now up to 33 & 1/3 of them!

No name Bertie wrote:What was happening to Nadal in 2015 at RG when he lost tamely to Djokovic 7-5 6-3 6-1?  Then in 2016 he pulled out in the third round.  I thought Nadal was finished and Djokovic, Wawrinka and possible Murray would take over.

Nadal’s 2015 was a crisis of confidence. 2016 he screwed up his wrist

Djokovic breaks back 3-3

Heavens above. Djoko breaks and it's 3-3 in the third.

There seems to be few lengthy rallies. At their peak they would regularly be having 15+ stroke rallies.

Djokovic holds 4-3

No name Bertie wrote:There seems to be few lengthy rallies.  At their peak they would regularly be having 15+ stroke rallies.

I think in these extremely slow conditions long rallies just kill you physically. Best to avoid them.

Jeff Navarro wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:There seems to be few lengthy rallies.  At their peak they would regularly be having 15+ stroke rallies.

I think in these extremely slow conditions long rallies just kill you physically. Best to avoid them.

So you reckon it is more to do with the court conditions rather than them just being "old" / past their physical prime and so adapting their game.

No name Bertie wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:There seems to be few lengthy rallies.  At their peak they would regularly be having 15+ stroke rallies.

I think in these extremely slow conditions long rallies just kill you physically. Best to avoid them.

So you reckon it is more to do with the court conditions rather than them just being "old" / past their physical prime.

Think it’s the conditions as it’s difficult to finish off the long rallies.

Nadal holds 4-4

Serving stats (mph):
.................. Djokovic ......... Nadal
max speed.... 120 ............... 121
1st serve av..  114 .............. 112
2nd serve av.. 89 ................ 91

I seem to recall Djokovic having a better / quicker serve than Nadal.  In this match they are about evens.

Djokovic saves BP leads 5-4