Glasgow and Edinburgh Ongoing Banter Thread 26

[Hazel Sapling]

First topic message reminder :

A continuation on previous threads discussing the past, the present and the future of Scottish rugby. A dose a day, keeps optimism away

Halfway through a Covid season and not far from the Rainbow cups, both teams are on the precipice of missing out on the top tier in Europe next year. The Rainbow Cup is a well thought out idea of including sides from South Africa, the home to a new Covid variant that vaccines may not work on, with international travel involving several regions of Europe.

Glasgow Squad

LH: Kebble, Bhatti, Lambert
Hooker: F Brown, Turner, Stewart, Matthews,
TH: Z Fagerson, Berghan, Pieretto, McCallum, McQuillan
Locks: Cummings, R Gray, Harley, McDonald, Bain, Bean
Back Row: Wilson, Gordon, M Fagerson, Darge, Dempsey, Miller, G Brown

SH: Price, G Horne, Dobie, Kennedy
FH: Weir, Miotti, P Horne, Thompson
Centres: S Johnson, McDowall, Tuipulotu, Grigg, Fergusson
Back Three: McLean, Forbes, McKay, Cancelliere, Tagive, Steyn, O Smith


Edinburgh Squad

LH: Schoeman, Venter, Grahamslaw
Hooker: McInally, Cherry, McBurney, Harrison
TH: Nel, De Bruin, Atalifo, Williams
Locks: Gilchrist, Toolis, Young, Hodgson, Sykes, Phillips
Back Row: Mata, Ritchie, Watson, Bradbury, Crosbie, Haining, Boyle, Kunavula, Muncaster

SH: Pyrgos, Vellacott, Shiel
FH: VDW, Chamberlain, Savala
Centres: Lang, Taylor, Bennett, Dean, Johnstone, Venter, Currie, Hutchison
Back Three: Graham, Kinghorn, Hoyland, Blain, Bofelli, Moyano, Immelman, Owsley


Previous Thread
https://www.606v2.com/t69760-the-glasgow-and-edinburgh-general-chat-discussions-are-limited-to-6-people-before-10pm-to-prevent-the-spread-of-jimboish
https://www.606v2.com/t69555-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-24-covid-funtimes?highlight=banter
https://www.606v2.com/t69038-glasgow-and-edinburgh-banter-thread-no-23-new-season-new-thread?highlight=banter

[Hazel Sapling]

It has been on the cards for a while with Carmichael. Hopefully he is fully recovered and there is no lasting damage.

At least with the Super Six, some of those players may be able to earn second chances. There is always a shortage of props on the horizon and Thornton, in particular, may be able to mature his game.

[BigGee]

Leone signs for Toulon, where he will join our other semi permantly injured second row, Big Brian

Makes you wonder what kind of contract he is on.

Nathan Brombys, at one of the fans events suggedted he was on some kind of pay on appearence deal for his second time at Scotstoun, he was considered a rugby risk even then.

I guess time will tell if Ulster have dodged a bullet or not!

[lostinwales]

Now that Tom Stoltman has won the world’s strongest man, could we convert him into our much needed number 8???

Having him running onto crash balls would be utterly frightening

6 foot 8, and 28 and a half stone. He wouldn't even need to run!

He lives close to where I was brought up and i've seen him out and about quite a few times (he's pretty hard to miss), I can confirm that he is absolutely huge - never seen a bigger human in the flesh.  Crazy to think that at 180kgs he won all of the events that involved speed/movement - it's all relative of course, but he is so dynamic for a man of that size.

I'll give you a thousand quid if you see him again and ask him if he thinks all that spandex is a little bit effeminate.

I'll even come and visit you in the hospital, so I can't say fairer than that.

Well, if somehow I managed to get away unscathed from Tom i'm certain his 'big' brother would catch up with me - he's only the 7th strongest man in the world  

I saw this and in the course of looking up the details noticed that your man mountain only came second in Britain's strongest man in 2020. The winner, a man called Bishop, was formerly Harlequin's S and C coach. He weighs in at a mere 150kgs. He used to play rugby, where he was a winger

[BigGee]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/harlequins-set-to-sign-scotland-centre-huw-jones/


Shuggy to Quins - a good move for him.

[EST]

About as good a move as he could have hoped for, he will love and thrive playing outside Smith i'm sure

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/harlequins-set-to-sign-scotland-centre-huw-jones/


Shuggy to Quins - a good move for him.

Excellent news, if any backline can get him back to the top of his game its got to be the Quins one!

[tigertattie]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/harlequins-set-to-sign-scotland-centre-huw-jones/


Shuggy to Quins - a good move for him.

Excellent news, if any backline can get him back to the top of his game its got to be the Quins one!

And he’ll get bantz from Marler

Shug and Quins are a perfect fit that’s for sure. I really don’t think he could have found a better team to move to

[RDW]

That's a much better move for him! Although hell find it tough to get a run at centre with Marchant there.

[George Carlin]

Oh thank god. A real team. Worcester must have been gutted to have missed out...

[bsando]

Although I think Bayonne would have suited Jones as a place to live and play rugby I think career wise harlequins will be a much better choice. Fast, free flowing rugby with an excellent support base. He’ll flourish there and hopefully continue getting selected for Scotland. He’s back!

[BigGee]

Sutherland goes to Worcester, bought out of his contract, that's a tough one for Edinburgh to take and leaves them short of a LH for next season.

[Hazel Sapling]

Sutherland takes a well worn path from Edinburgh to Worcester (Solomons, Bresler, Weir, CDP, DVDM and Sutherland). Shame they don't want a SH from Glasgow to go with the collection.

With ringfencing coming in, at least he is guaranteed to play in the Premiership for the next couple of seasons. Reid and Dell have not appeared to have much luck adapting to the Premiership at London Irish but Sutherland is the most talented of the lot.

In terms of Scotland, it may harm his chances if he is slow to get going down south with Kebble, Schoeman and Bhatti all playing up north. Fingers crossed he gets up to speed quickly and gives us 3 LH's starting most weeks for URC/Premiership clubs.

[George Carlin]

Jaysus H - what is it about Worcester? I've been there. It's something of a toilet.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

I’ve lived there, it has very little going for it. I don’t understand the appeal of playing for perennial underachievers for the sake of a few quid, where is the ambition??

[funnyExiledScot]

That is a dreadful move for Sutherland (and for Edinburgh). Why on earth would a Lions grade loosehead go there!!?

His agent has had a shocker there.

[BigGee]

I guess when you have had the injury that he has had, you can't turn down silly money. He knows what a short career it can be.

He also seems to have a very close relationship with Solly, who gsve him his first start in pro rugby.

[funnyExiledScot]

I suspect that's his rationale, plus he'll know Duhan pretty well. His injury record probably also counts against him moving to one of the better teams in the league. He's a risk.

Personally I think a fit Sutherland is a better player than Schoeman. Perhaps not as explosive around the park, but a better scrummager and gives away far fewer penalties. Sutherland has a wonderful opportunity to make his mark on this Lions tour, and if he gets into the Test side it'll be a massive coup for Worcester, whatever they are paying him.

Edinburgh now need to recruit, and I can't imagine there's much out there. Did Glasgow not let go of Alex Allan? Could we get him back??

[Hazel Sapling]

Allan and Marfo are both available among former Scots internationals. Think Dell is still contracted to LI.

Signing Allan for a season or two whilst seeing if Grahamslaw or Gamble can turn into club level props (and subsequently letting a new youngster come in to be 4th choice) would be preferable in my eyes to signing a journeyman NSQ. De Bruin covers both sides so only need one prop to come in or develop.

An alternative is to look at what Wasps did in signing 2 Scots from the Championship who had paid their dues. Are there any others who fit the bill?

[BigGee]

Allen is crocked and there is about as much chance of Cockers taking Marfo back as pigs flying!

I guess they will have to develop the youngsters, which could be no bad thing

[RDW]

Ach that's a shame. Not so much him leaving but the.fact he's going to Worcester! At least he'll be in the premiership which will be good for his development regardless. I wonder if part of it was he didn't want to be sharing the spot with Schoeman.

But yeah, Worcester...

[tigertattie]

Cant blame the Hawick prop at all for moving.

Shoemann is still Cocker's boy. Sutherland could well be Solly's boy. They are fighting it out at Edinburgh for the starting jersey and with Shoemann becoming SQ soon it wont do Sutherland any favours.

And of course Sutherland cant go looking a pay cheque in the mouth as it's a short career as well he knows.

[BigGee]

https://twitter.com/RugbyPass/status/1411633852360138753

A great interview with Lewis Bean by Jamie Lyall


This guy has some back story and is clearly made of the right stuff. He will be a very welcome addition to the Glasgow squad and great to hear how well his welfare was address in helping him settle in.

Nice to heat how fondly Big T remembers his time at Glasgow as well!

[George Carlin]

It wasn’t that you’d get shot at three times in a tour.
You could get shot at three or four times a day.

After one full season in Glasgow, he'll be looking to move back to Afghanistan as somewhere that's safer and friendlier to outsiders.

Just to get that in before the Edinburgh squadron do.

[RDW]

Over 3000 season tickets sales from Edinburgh, which is be fay and away a new record. Most years we don't even hit 2000.

I guess people really are desperate for a return to rugby!

[tigertattie]

Over 3000 season tickets sales from Edinburgh, which is be fay and away a new record. Most years we don't even hit 2000.

I guess people really are desperate for a return to rugby!

And finally a stadium to call our own. Too far too long while the SRU wasted money on Glasgow.

Hopefully this is the start of Edinburgh dominating the Celtic league again

[jimbopip]

Not A Pony has signed for Harleyqueens.
That's the rugby equivalent of Billy Bunter getting a job as quality control manager in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory, or Tigertattie being chief taster at The Scotch Pie factory.

Oh and Queens are one of the English sides Glasgow can be pooled with in the Euro Cup. Hat trick for Shug.

[BigGee]

Not A Pony has signed for Harleyqueens.
That's the rugby equivalent of Billy Bunter getting a job as quality control manager in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory, or Tigertattie being chief taster at The Scotch Pie factory.

Oh and Queens are one of the English sides Glasgow can be pooled with in the Euro Cup. Hat trick for Shug.

I would be very happy if we draw Quins, a nice easy away trip for me, makes a change from Exeter and Sarries!

[jimbopip]

Agreed Gee, that would be a good day out. You might get to meet Jynxy Joe, ex team mate and Quins nutter.

[BigGee]

Kyle Rowe signs for London Irish

He has been a very good sevens player and looked good when he got his chance with Edinburgh at the end of the season.

Good luck to him, hope he is not one that got away!

[tigertattie]

Not A Pony has signed for Harleyqueens.
That's the rugby equivalent of Billy Bunter getting a job as quality control manager in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory, or Tigertattie being chief taster at The Scotch Pie factory.

Oh and Queens are one of the English sides Glasgow can be pooled with in the Euro Cup. Hat trick for Shug.

I would be very happy if we draw Quins, a nice easy away trip for me, makes a change from Exeter and Sarries!

I would be very happy getting a job as cheif taster at the pie factory!

[RDW]

Sau having a great game for Fiji against NZ. What the hell is he doing now playing French second division rugby.

[RDW]

Kunavula scores too - great game!

[RDW]

Watson's have signed this young Saffer 10 who is also SQ. He was named in the team of the tournament in the SA under 21 league last year.

https://youtu.be/CHIfcLpPHRA

Obviously we need to be wary of the YouTube highlights reel (aka the Mike Penn law) but he looks a great distributer. Finn Russell-esque in being able to spot space and the skill to put the ball there.

I'm sure Edinburgh played a part in this - won't be long until all of that natural ability and skill is coached out of him!

[BigGee]

They have also signed Kwagga van Niewrk, who played U20s for us a couple of seasons back. He has been doing well in Varsity rugby in SA following a bad injury apparently. Clearly not given up on his professional dreams either.

I am quite looking forward to seeing some Super 6 on the tv this august, which will fill in a gap until the Pro games get going again towards the end of sept.

[BigGee]

https://twitter.com/Netwerk24Sport/status/1414090595107225602

That looks like Nathan Mcbeth, who played under 20s for us and played for the Lions against our Lions last week. I did wonder if he would not be back at some stage.

Looks like the replacement for Aki Seuili and if so, not a bad bit of business.

[BigGee]

Interview with Paul Burnell, 1990 GS hero who went on the 1993 Lions tour by Mark Palmer in the Scottish Sunday Times.

He talks about that tour, the last one prior to this where the Scots had a full representation as well as the relationship between the SRU and London Scottish, where he is club President. Relations, thankfully seem to be improving and there are talks about how it might pan out in the future.


The 1993 Lions tour of New Zealand was the last with as distinctive a Scottish flavour as the present expedition. Then, as now, some eight Scotland players were involved, with the largest concentration being in the tight five, where Damian Cronin, Kenny Milne, Peter Wright, Andy Reed and Paul Burnell all went.

This quintet found themselves cast as villains at several key points on the trip, their individual and collective shortcomings being lamented after humblings at the hands of Otago and Waikato as well as the first Test in Christchurch. With Ian McGeechan as head coach and Gavin Hastings as captain, Milne, Reed and Burnell all started a game defined by a couple of dreadful refereeing errors, one of which gave Grant Fox the last-minute penalty he scored to secure a 20-18 win for the All Blacks.

The three Scots were all dropped for the second Test in Wellington; Brian Moore, Martin Johnson and Jason Leonard all came in. “I was really disappointed at the time, your pride is hurt, but in hindsight I have no qualms about being replaced by a world-class player like Jason,” says Burnell, the tight-head who had already seen and heard his presence contested by those who could not understand why Jeff Probyn had been left at home. “My view was that I was the better player anyhow,” he smiles. “We outplayed England in 1990, and, in terms of the forwards, in 1992 and ’93. We had the better front five in those games. In ’92, we pushed them over for a try at Murrayfield.

“I always thought [selection] would be a close run thing. I’ve got huge respect for and am very friendly with Jeff Probyn, but you have to believe in your own ability. I’d trained as hard as I possibly could, and had put in what I thought were three or four really consistent seasons with Scotland.”

Waikato was a disaster. Three days after the tourists squared the Test series with a brilliant 20-7 win, the midweek side were demolished 38-10 in Hamilton. The all-Scottish tight five were crucified, both in the game and afterwards, and, more generally, there was a sense of some of the midweekers having gone off piste and onto something that sounds similar.

“We’ll hold our hands up and say it wasn’t our best performance, not just the Scotland front five or the Lions pack, but the whole team,” he says. “These things happen when you’re coming to the end of a long tour. Most of the focus was on the deciding Test and was the right focus put on that game? That’s a question. Even so, there is no reason why we should have been beaten. We had world-class players in that side, Stuart Barnes and Will Carling for two.

“I can always look in the mirror and say, even if I’m not the most skilful player, I always put 150 per cent in. Others may not have done, but I haven’t asked them. But what people have to realise is that, especially in New Zealand, you’re there to be shot down. Waikato were a very good side and the Lions team didn’t perform. But there were other midweek games where Scotland players weren’t involved and there were also bad results. People should remember that as well.

Burnell in action for the Lions during the 1993 tour
Burnell in action for the Lions during the 1993 tour
COLORSPORT/REX/SHUTTERSTOCK
“It does irk me sometimes when you hear criticism aimed at the Scotland forwards on that trip. Some of it is fair but some of it is unfair — other members of the squad probably need to look at themselves as well.

“When you look at how integrated Lions tours are now, if you read about ’83 and ’93, there seem to be quite a lot of similarities in terms of the midweek side and Test side. There probably was [a split in 1993], but memory fades. I remember it as a pretty happy tour. I came away from the experience with some really good friends, and I reflect on most of it really fondly.”

The Waikato hooker that day was one Warren Gatland, who holds the destiny of this year’s Scots in his hands. Burnell expects to see Hamish Watson and Rory Sutherland — “the best loosehead scrummager they have out there” — in the forwards, and if Zander Fagerson has perhaps the hardest task of the lot to shift Tadhg Furlong and Kyle Sinckler, the 25-year-old tight-head already looks at home at this new level.

“He’s an absolute quality player,” he says. “He could go on to be one of Scotland’s greatest. He can scrummage and he can definitely handle a ball as well. He’s in one of those positions where there is real strength in depth, but he’s an excellent, excellent player.”

Burnell, an understated but highly effective member of the 1990 Grand Slam team, won 52 caps out of London Scottish. Today he is president of the Championship club, who have gone semi-pro due to the effects of the pandemic and RFU funding cuts, and face further big decisions in the coming years as they look to define and secure their future. The prospect of them becoming a de facto third Scottish pro team in an expanded Pro14 have receded with the formation of the South African-heavy United Rugby Championship, but there could yet be another Caledonian route as a franchise in an expanded Super6.

“In terms of the Championship, there needs to be a huge amount of discussion and thought put in to where it sits within the English hierarchy,” says Burnell, who by day is a partner with Redgrave, a London-based executive search business. “What the RFU want out of the Championship and what the Championship can offer, there’s quite a big gap between the two. We’ve spent £10million in the last eight years on playing and we’ve come to the conclusion that we will try to put a professional side on the pitch but we won’t bankrupt the club to do that.

“We’re asking how we become more relevant to Scottish rugby. We’re still the third strongest Scottish side by a country mile, so how do the SRU leverage us in the M25, where there are probably more quality youngsters of Scottish heritage than there are in Scotland?

“The relationship with the SRU is very good right now. [London Scottish chairman] Malcolm Offord and I have spent the last four or five years trying to strengthen it and we’ve now gained credibility. We’ve decided to take our place back on the council and Malcolm is on the main board on an independent basis. We’ve got the voice of London Scottish and the exiles back in there.

“Could we have a role in a Super8 or whatever? Possibly. I still think the Championship is light years ahead in terms of standard of game at the moment, and we’ve also been a member of the RFU for many years as well. If we’re going to cut ties, that’s a big decision that the whole club would need to make. On paper, it’s certainly an interesting route, though.”

If the flak starts flying, Burnell will be right at home.

[George Carlin]

Watson's have signed this young Saffer 10 who is also SQ. He was named in the team of the tournament in the SA under 21 league last year.

https://youtu.be/CHIfcLpPHRA

Obviously we need to be wary of the YouTube highlights reel (aka the Mike Penn law) but he looks a great distributer. Finn Russell-esque in being able to spot space and the skill to put the ball there.

I'm sure Edinburgh played a part in this - won't be long until all of that natural ability and skill is coached out of him!

So he has a bad haircut and spends his time on the gainline making wildly risky flat passes?

About time we had a substitute for Finn.

[RDW]

Has Finn ever had a bad haircut? He's always been pretty sensible on that front, weirdly enough.

[RDW]

Murray McCallum signs a short-term deal with Glasgow. Hopefully he can kick off his career again.

[BigGee]

Murray McCallam gets his shot at redemption by signing a short term deal with the Warriors.

Interesting to see how he goes in a new environment. He would not be the first rejected Edinburgh player that we have turned around!

[BigGee]

The founder best me to it

Even from Oz!

[EST]

That move makes sense, at one point he showed a lot of promise and perhaps he can get his career back on track, although whenever i've seen him recently he's been pretty poor.

[RDW]

Cockers has left Edinburgh with immediate effect! Woah that was out of the blue.

To "pursue other opportunities"

Been no hints whatsoever - particularly if he was actually being lined up somewhere else

[Hazel Sapling]

Well, something has been off about Edinburgh this year and Cockerill leaving is not a great look for the SRU.

Hopefully, if the game plan is the problem, this will result in a bit of a clear out. I am not sure anyone of real reputation will want the job so there may need to be a risk taken on someone unproven such as Mike Blair.

[Tramptastic]

Well, something has been off about Edinburgh this year and Cockerill leaving is not a great look for the SRU.

Hopefully, if the game plan is the problem, this will result in a bit of a clear out. I am not sure anyone of real reputation will want the job so there may need to be a risk taken on someone unproven such as Mike Blair.

Theres always Hodge...

[RDW]

Blair isn't a bad shout - he's been coaching at Glasgow for years and was trusted with the Scotland job temporarily.

Not sure McRae or especially Hodge would be inspiring choices!

[BigGee]

Probably not as surprising as it seems, it just does not seem to have been working for Edinburgh this season and there were rumours during the season that he had lost the dressing room.

Cockers was just what Edinburgh needed at the time but maybe not the coach to develop there game to where it needs to be. Maybe he had the self awareness to realise that, or perhaps Malinder had to point it out to him!

Blair would be a good shout and could come in for the beginning of the season being already in SRU employment.

[RDW]

I'm not surprised he left - given how bad our season was, and the complete collapse the season before, it was clear he's taken the team as far as he can.

It's more the timing and the fact there were no rumours at all. Which makes me think it happened a while ago or is very fresh!

[BigGee]

I imagine it happened a while ago

If Blair is the one, they were never going to announce it till the summer tests were over in any case.

I think we will get an announcement pretty soon. It would be crazy to go into the new season with no coach!

[RDW]

The alternative is its hot off the press, that he lamped Dodson yesterday and we're stuck with Hodge for a season.

[Sponsored content]