England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

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Rum sort of field for Nadeem to Sibley...two short covers ???

Not noted for getting caught there , is he ? Strange theory...

Alfie

Generally wise words. I'm not convinced the toss per se was THAT much of a factor - conditions seemed reasonably equal through the first three days, with it getting harder to bat day 4 and really hard on day 5. First innings, England batted better and bowled better than India, setting up a position to win the game. I reckon they'd have done the same batting second, although the lead might not have been quite as big, and still been in a position today to push for a win chasing a relatively low score.

India certainly go into the second game with more questions to answer, particularly regarding their bowling line-up. No issues with the seamers, who both bowled well, or Ashwin, but Nadeem struggled and Sundar contributed more with the bat than ball. Obviously Jadeja is a big loss for them, but they still need another bowling option.

England need to decide how squad rotation and rest is going to work - Buttler going home for a break gives Foakes a chance, which I think we all agree should improve the keeping (even though Buttler has been good) but might weaken the batting a bit, especially in a position where we need quick runs. I assume Lawrence gets the next test (Crawley I think still missing and Bairstow not back from furlough), so it's just who to pick of the seamers (novel idea - Anderson and Broad...).

Still likely India will take the series - they are such a good team at home, and can play better than this, so England still have lots to do, but they've made an excellent start to the series

To be fair to Stokes he is the one coming out of the cold while everyone else had a chance to acclimatize and get into rhythm in SL.

Toss probably key again next match, not sure England would've fared much better if they bowled first

Yeah there was a lot of talk about how fit Stokes was to bowl ahead of this game, but no actual injury. Do think he was used sparingly because firstly he wasn't needed and secondly they are easing him back in, its a fair while since he's done any match bowling beyond T20 cameos. Id be more concerned about his lack of overs if India had been the ones making 500+

Shouldn't read much into his speeds either, Archer bowled a number of spells of medium pace simply because they felt they could get more from the pitch bowling wobble seam than banging it in.

Its not like he was going off the field constantly.


Keep forgetting Buttlers off, wont be ideal for England but a big chance for Foakes to step up. He wont be as cold coming in as some of the players have been, at least he's had some time in the SL warm ups and the practise fields. Maybe not a senior authority in the team but has the experience and standing and has been with the squad long enough now to be a voice.

Anderson/Broad could swap over, from what we aw in SL that shouldn't be a trade down and Broad will be chomping at the bit to make a point. Archer hasn't been overbowled so no reason he cant play again for this test, swap with Wood later in the series.

Top 3 is the area of concern for me. Crawley for Lawrence seems likely if he is fit, but its not exactly reassuring.

The rotation policy is so far looking very well justified. Its even arguable that resting in various formats is why players have been able to perform here, certainly don't think Roots batting has suffered from him not being under pressure to score faster in T20. Stokes would have a lot more reason to be worried about his fitness to bowl if he hadn't had the breaks.

India have bigger problems though.

Next test team will be Broad in for Anderson and Foakes in for Buttler. Unless injury strikes, the only other change I could see would be Moeen in for Bess, but I think that's unlikely for now. If Stokes can't bowl then maybe Woakes in for Lawrence, but that will lead to a shift of the batting order, which will be unpleasant.

Third test will see even more rotation with Wood, Crawley and Bairstow likely to come in to the side, as well as Anderson swapping over with Broad again.

Unsure on what India will do with their team. Kuldeep in for Nadeem seems to be a given. Is Rohit's place under threat?

Some fans will be allowed in the ground for the second test as well which will be nice.

I think Stokes bowling is a bit of a luxury in the sub-continent - he's definitely the third of three seamers in this attack, and the bulk of the overs are going to be bowled by the spinners, so if he's bowling a lot we definitely have problems. Still a useful option to have as he does make thing happen (like getting Kohli out), but he shouldn't be bowling much more than Root in these conditions.

It was certainly a wicket where a stock ball of a 125 km/h cutter was the option (outside the 20 overs when the ball is reversing), with only the occasional 140+ effort delivery as the variation, so I have no issues with how any of the seamers bowled.

Going forward, it could be significant that India bowled 80+ overs more than England in this game, especially given the shot turn-around to the next game and the lack of options India currently have while players are recovering from injuries picked up in Australia.

btw...While I try to overcome my disappointment & frustration heartiest congratulations to England for winning 3 in a row in sub continent & 6 in a row overseas overall

Their record is 7 overseas wins in a row around the WW-1 era
My heartiest best wishes that, that record from the dinosaur era stays intact

KP_fan wrote:btw...While I try to overcome my disappointment & frustration heartiest congratulations to England for  winning 3 in a row in sub continent & 6 in a row overseas overall

Their record is 7 overseas wins in a row around the WW-1 era
My heartiest best wishes  that, that record from the dinosaur era stays intact

6, as well. A 3-0 win in Sri Lanka preceded the 2-0 win that was also in Sri Lanka.

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:btw...While I try to overcome my disappointment & frustration heartiest congratulations to England for  winning 3 in a row in sub continent & 6 in a row overseas overall

Their record is 7 overseas wins in a row around the WW-1 era
My heartiest best wishes  that, that record from the dinosaur era stays intact

6, as well. A 3-0 win in Sri Lanka preceded the 2-0 win that was also in Sri Lanka.

Just like India invested heavily and has deep desires to win overseas i.e SA, Eng, NZ & Aus
similarly seemingly Eng has invested heavily in improving in subcontinent...and it shows in their results and especially batting

dummy_half wrote:I think Stokes bowling is a bit of a luxury in the sub-continent - he's definitely the third of three seamers in this attack, and the bulk of the overs are going to be bowled by the spinners, so if he's bowling a lot we definitely have problems. Still a useful option to have as he does make thing happen (like getting Kohli out), but he shouldn't be bowling much more than Root in these conditions.

I am going to respectfully disagree here Dummy, mainly because weirdly, Stokes actually has a better average/bowling record in the sub continent than he does in England/Australia (albeit on a more limited sample size!) - http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerCountries.asp?PlayerID=3883#bowl

I think that's mainly down to his ability to reverse swing the ball, I remember in particular on that tour of Bangladesh a few years back (where England got bowled out in a session lol) he was deadly with it, and his record in Sri Lanka is also superb. Also he can of course offer up menacing spells of the short stuff if things are flat too. And like you noted, he does have a knack of taking key wickets. I think if England are to win this series, he'll need to be contributing a fair bit over the series as a bowler, as well as obviously his batting.

England need only one more win to qualify for World Test Championship final

KP_fan wrote: England need only one more win to qualify for World Test Championship final

Two more, I think. Still a long-shot from here. If it does happen, it would be weird to play NZ in a two-game series and then play them in a standalone world final.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2008433

One more win for England would end India's chances.

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote: England need only one more win to qualify for World Test Championship final

Two more, I think. Still a long-shot from here. If it does happen, it would be weird to play NZ in a two-game series and then play them in a standalone world final.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2008433

One more win for England would end India's chances.

I see...one more win for Eng will knock India out...but not enuf for Eng to qualify....they need 2 more wins

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

dummy_half wrote:I think Stokes bowling is a bit of a luxury in the sub-continent - he's definitely the third of three seamers in this attack, and the bulk of the overs are going to be bowled by the spinners, so if he's bowling a lot we definitely have problems. Still a useful option to have as he does make thing happen (like getting Kohli out), but he shouldn't be bowling much more than Root in these conditions.

I am going to respectfully disagree here Dummy, mainly because weirdly, Stokes actually has a better average/bowling record in the sub continent than he does in England/Australia (albeit on a more limited sample size!) - http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerCountries.asp?PlayerID=3883#bowl

I think that's mainly down to his ability to reverse swing the ball, I remember in particular on that tour of Bangladesh a few years back (where England got bowled out in a session lol) he was deadly with it, and his record in Sri Lanka is also superb. Also he can of course offer up menacing spells of the short stuff if things are flat too. And like you noted, he does have a knack of taking key wickets. I think if England are to win this series, he'll need to be contributing a fair bit over the series as a bowler, as well as obviously his batting.

Hes still a luxury bowler though, regardless of being useful the mainstay of the bowling will still be two spinners. With two senior seamers ahead of him he's a bit part. He is the fifth bowler, and seam is always likely to play second fiddle. Having to turn to him to come in a nip some handy wickets, rotate, change things up or whatever is generally a sign that plan A isn't working. On absolute decks that arent offering the spinners much he does become more important and you would expect him to bowl a bit more (New Zealand, Lords on a sunny day, 90% of pitches in the UAE etc). But if England are asking their 3rd seamer to bowl long spells in India its a sign that the front line bowlers arent doing much.

Not a slight on him just a thing. A good thing for England, question for India is do they pick their man Hardik.

A marvelous victory for England. Root was superb throughout and the bowling unit all played their parts in stages. I'm was particularly happy for Leach today who has had some torrid times over the last 18 months but responded excellently to a bit of tap earlier in the game. His experience bowling on Taunton bunsens makes him vital for subcontinent Tests.

Seeing how India respond in the 2nd Test will be intriguing. They have a lot of class in the batting of course but there may just be an element of mental fatigue after the Australia series. Kohli batted by far the best in the second innings and it might not be a coincidence that he's had a break.

I'd presume that Kuldeep will replace Nadeem. With Shami and Yadav not in the squad for the first two Tests they can't rotate their seamers though which presumably England will. Could Thakur or Siraj replacing Nadeem with Sundar bowling more be an option?

For England I expect them to keep it simple. Broad for Anderson and Foakes for Buttler. The pink ball 3rd Test is where I think Broad and Anderson might be used in partnership. That pink ball does tend to swing.

Bess did look tired in the second innings but picked up four wickets in the first innings, continued his knack of scoring useful runs and nipped out Sundar in today despite not bowling terrifically. I hope he gets the 2nd Test.

king_carlos wrote:A marvelous victory for England. Root was superb throughout and the bowling unit all played their parts in stages. I'm was particularly happy for Leach today who has had some torrid times over the last 18 months but responded excellently to a bit of tap earlier in the game. His experience bowling on Taunton bunsens makes him vital for subcontinent Tests.

Seeing how India respond in the 2nd Test will be intriguing. They have a lot of class in the batting of course but there may just be an element of mental fatigue after the Australia series. Kohli batted by far the best in the second innings and it might not be a coincidence that he's had a break.

I'd presume that Kuldeep will replace Nadeem. With Shami and Yadav not in the squad for the first two Tests they can't rotate their seamers though which presumably England will. Could Thakur or Siraj replacing Nadeem with Sundar bowling more be an option?

For England I expect them to keep it simple. Broad for Anderson and Foakes for Buttler. The pink ball 3rd Test is where I think Broad and Anderson might be used in partnership. That pink ball does tend to swing.

Bess did look tired in the second innings but picked up four wickets in the first innings, continued his knack of scoring useful runs and nipped out Sundar in today despite not bowling terrifically. I hope he gets the 2nd Test.

Logically Kuldeep should come in for Nadeem..that's it.....but you never know with kohli....he gets a last minute itch and gambles in the hope of a extra-clever-magic-bullet type unexpected selection

ishant has had a long rest....as has Kuldeep and Bumrah & ashwin skipped the 4th test in Aus..so they should be reasonbly rested.

In the 3rd test...we might see an extra seamer is its D&N game and Jadeja will also be back by then

Has there been any update on Jadeja? A dislocated thumb on your bowling hand is a nasty injury that's for sure. I remember commentators in the Sri Lanka series mentioning that they'd heard he might miss the whole series.

He's a fantastic cricketer and a big loss for India. He adds a lot of control and the left-arm angle with that consistency would cause England's right-handers plenty of issues.

Reluctant to get too definite about selection as both teams are capable of springing surprises. But I'd imagine India will replace the ineffective Nadeem with Kuldeep (the alternative of bringing in Siraj and using Sundar more would surely only be considered if the pitch for this match is miraculously different!) And Sundar's bowling is also a concern though he batted really well in the first innings.

They really miss Jadeja. Not much else they can do at present : they might in a way like to have Saha behind the stumps and just let Pant bat - but there isn't really a spot for him with none of the top five being a serious bowling option. So one change is all I can see. Pink ball game might be another matter.

England fairly straightforward . Buttler is off home so Foakes gets a welcome change from endless nets and drink service. Presumably Jimmy will have a rest (they will want him fresh for the day/night game ) and Broad will be getting restless...and as Archer wasn't overbowled I'd imagine he will be OK for backing up on Saturday so only two changes.

Still the odd area of concern for England. Root (and Stokes) apart the batting looks a little unconvincing despite that first innings. Sibley did well day one but not so happy on day four, ditto Burns - and Lawrence is struggling. No alternatives at the moment with Crawley still crocked and Bairstow not back until game three so hopefully Root finds a couple of mates to stand up and not leave too much to him.
Buttler's batting will be missed I think , more than his keeping. (He was fine behind the stumps - obviously has worked hard at his work taking the spinners ; but I don't think anyone doubts Foakes' skills in this area. And I am not sure I agree with Olly about Jos being essential in decision making : I think he is an important dressing room influence ; but without having called up any stats to prove it I would suggest that his record on drs calls is actually pretty ordinary...was certainly poor in this match)  The batting though : Jos has been in very good recent form and coming in at seven gave the team serious depth - whether Foakes can do a similar job is open to question . True his WK/batting Test record is currently considerably superior to Buttler's , but it is based on a handful of games against Sri Lanka and West Indies : this Indian attack is another level of challenge.

And as to the spinners. They are not Swann and Panesar...not yet anyway. But they've basically done the job three games in a row now , albeit in a somewhat erratic fashion. Many seem to downgrade Bess for some loose patches of bowling and the seemingly "lucky" nature of some of his wickets ; but he has tended to get a lot of big wickets , often out of nowhere - don't think it is quite fair to keep calling it fluke. Leach got mauled by Pant ; but he didn't panic , came back well ; and did a superb job in the second innings.  

One observation : a trend is arguably forming about these two : Bess seems to be generally the more useful of the pair in first innings - not necessarily taking a lot of wickets , but exercising reasonable control and chipping in with vital breaks. While Leach is the man to take full advantage of a deterioration in pitch conditions and really put the screws on the batsmen in the latter stages of the match. Makes them a handy combination ; and I'd be surprised if England were to mess with them at present , for all the talk about Moeen being an option. Barring injury or exhaustion kicking in (not impossible!) I'd think Moeen might be more likely to make an appearance next English summer as rotation continues.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

dummy_half wrote:I think Stokes bowling is a bit of a luxury in the sub-continent - he's definitely the third of three seamers in this attack, and the bulk of the overs are going to be bowled by the spinners, so if he's bowling a lot we definitely have problems. Still a useful option to have as he does make thing happen (like getting Kohli out), but he shouldn't be bowling much more than Root in these conditions.

I am going to respectfully disagree here Dummy, mainly because weirdly, Stokes actually has a better average/bowling record in the sub continent than he does in England/Australia (albeit on a more limited sample size!) - http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerCountries.asp?PlayerID=3883#bowl

I think that's mainly down to his ability to reverse swing the ball, I remember in particular on that tour of Bangladesh a few years back (where England got bowled out in a session lol) he was deadly with it, and his record in Sri Lanka is also superb. Also he can of course offer up menacing spells of the short stuff if things are flat too. And like you noted, he does have a knack of taking key wickets. I think if England are to win this series, he'll need to be contributing a fair bit over the series as a bowler, as well as obviously his batting.

Very much with Olly here. As I've said earlier in this match discussion , I am pretty sure England are following a deliberate policy of easing Stokes back into bowling after his injury issues and recent layoff - and indeed intend to use him no more than necessary in these conditions in hopes of keeping him fresh and ready to fire throughout. If they are backs-to-the-wall in a later match and need some magic I would not be at all surprised to see him called on for a major effort. Back him to get a result too.

He's never going to do the Flintoff job of taking a lead role ahead of the main seamers - nor should he be asked to. But , in any conditions , I think he is a man Root can call on with a fair expectation of a serious contribution. And on this tour , with the need for two spinners and a long batting line-up , absolutely essential for England's chances of success.

alfie wrote: Makes them a handy combination ; and I'd be surprised if England were to mess with them at present , for all the talk about Moeen being an option. Barring injury or exhaustion kicking in (not impossible!) I'd think Moeen might be more likely to make an appearance next English summer as rotation continues.

Yes changing the spinners now would be even more bonkers than having picked Mo in the first test. He's a risk that doesn't need taking, and even at his best is only going to be delivering a similar option to Bess. I'm hard pressed to see how he gets in a side in England either, even though his record there is better than abroad ( and Bess' pretty ordinary). They are unlikely to be looking at two spinners at home, and don't need to worry about the tail with Woakes, Curran and Bess all being legit options. Not sure how the summer schedules going to pan out with white ball but he's still presumably going to be in those squads so wont get much first class cricket to make a point in, and by the time the season starts its something like 20 months since he played a first class match.

If they were going to select him it really had to be the plan to ease him back in in Sri Lanka. He's massively unfortunate that he picked up covid when he did (dependant how he got it of, you make your own luck etc) but to be honest it might've been a blessing for England taking him out of the equation. Bess and Leach have improved over the winter and have always been a good pair. There have been a few periods of filth but you could easily be describing Mo there, and overall their bowling has done the job.

Could easily have been the same trap England fell into with Samit Patel on the 2008/9 tour. If you're going to be bowling a lot of spin pick your best spinners.

The only way I can see him getting back in is if Stokes needs resting and they think he's the best option for propping up the batting whilst having a fifth bowling option, or at home again if Stokes is out and they want to play either 5 seamers or 4 that aren't Woakes and Scurran. Or if the next two tests Leach or Bess has an absolute meltdown, caveat that Leachs curse will probably strike and he will do something daft like fall over in the shower.

All in England just don't need a player who has been dropped several times, hasn't played red ball in a very long time, and has been bad in the white ball stuff he's played. Opportunities for him to knock the door down just aren't there. The kids in the reserve squad have more recent pedigree to demand a place. Mo's been given every opportunity by England when it comes to all formats and whilst at his bets he's been a saviour on a number of times its 2 years since that was the case with the ball and 4 with the bat.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eye-on-the-no-ball-no-leeway-for-spinners-as-tv-umpires-call-the-shots-1250864

Bit of stats on the spinners and no balls. Does seem its long term habit from certain bowlers that just has never been picked up because umpires werent even bothering to look for them. Some of the more gentle seamers (Anderson, Abbas) amongst those getting called more often as well which again tallies to a previous bias of umpires to watch quicks more closely.

Ultimately the proper checking of no balls has to be good for the game, although it is slowing it down especially when they are called on the sixth of an over. In theory through this year and next we should see the numbers come down as bowlers adjust to problems they may not have even been aware of. The danger is that it makes stepping up to international cricket harder, if its not being policed rigorously at youth and domestic levels players will develop bad habits that get shown up.

alfie wrote:And as to the spinners. They are not Swann and Panesar...not yet anyway. But they've basically done the job three games in a row now , albeit in a somewhat erratic fashion. Many seem to downgrade Bess for some loose patches of bowling and the seemingly "lucky" nature of some of his wickets ; but he has tended to get a lot of big wickets , often out of nowhere - don't think it is quite fair to keep calling it fluke. Leach got mauled by Pant ; but he didn't panic , came back well ; and did a superb job in the second innings.  

One observation : a trend is arguably forming about these two : Bess seems to be generally the more useful of the pair in first innings - not necessarily taking a lot of wickets , but exercising reasonable control and chipping in with vital breaks. While Leach is the man to take full advantage of a deterioration in pitch conditions and really put the screws on the batsmen in the latter stages of the match. Makes them a handy combination ; and I'd be surprised if England were to mess with them at present , for all the talk about Moeen being an option. Barring injury or exhaustion kicking in (not impossible!) I'd think Moeen might be more likely to make an appearance next English summer as rotation continues.

I think people get a little too caught up on Bess too Alfie - can you imagine what social media would have been like if it was around at the start of Anderson's career, or even someone like Swann? I think in an ideal world, England would have a regularly performing and available top line spinner (hopefully now Leach is seemingly past the worst of his illness, and in the "prime" of his career he can be that), but Bess is clearly a very promising talent who England are investing (rightly) a lot of time in...but he is only 23. He's going to have spells where it comes out as full tosses and half trackers, and also spells where it comes out brilliantly. The consistency will come over years, not games. Rashid a good example of a spinner, who even when he reentered the ODI side in 2015, was nowhere near the bowler he ended up being 3/4 years later.

Good note re: the discrepancy between first and second innings, Leach has really nailed the 4th innings imo, whereas as you note Bess seems better when it's more about containment. I remember I think on day 3, Nick Knight in a rare instance of insightful commentary, was comparing Bess to Ashwin and showing how Bess mainly gets a lot of overspin on the ball, rather than ripping turn...reminds me a bit of Nathan Lyon in that respect would you say?

I'd also say, Bess did look tired to me, particularly in that early spell on day 4...so I wouldn't rule out him rest for a game. Whether Moeen comes in, or maybe they rest him for the pink ball game and go with an extra seamer (pitch depending) is the debate!
I see Goose has beaten me to the point about if Stokes can't bowl/needs a rest, that is how I see Moeen getting a game also. If Stokes can't bowl, imo we'd need to bring in a 5th bowler, and I would plump for Moeen to come in, ahead of Lawrence and bat 3, rather than picking a Woakes to come in and then have to rejig Root/Stokes/Pope/Foakes up the order to accommodate him at 7. Moeen at 3 wouldn't be ideal, but I would rather that than having to rejig 3-4 other players positions.
But that is a purely hypothetical situation that hopefully doesn't become a realistic conversation!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Moeen at 3 wouldn't be ideal, but I would rather that than having to rejig 3-4 other players positions.
But that is a purely hypothetical situation that hopefully doesn't become a realistic conversation!

Out in single figures. Caught at deep square leg trying to (badly) hook Bumrah/Ishant/Any Other Fast Bowler. I'm calling it now!

Mo's test batting has been shot to bits for many years. Like you say, hopefully it is hypothetical but I would be bemused and angry in equal measures if he is batting anywhere near the top 6.

I'd actually rather Pope was moved up to 3 if Mo has to play to get a bowler in. Then I would bat Mo at 6 or even 7 behind Foakes. I don't want Pope to move from 6 yet but I'd rather that than see Mo walk out at first drop.

The India media grapevine is suggesting Axar Patel as the name that will come in.
Obviously Nadeem will be out
I don't think Axar is a wicket taking bowler....I am afraid that Patel will come in for Sundar...and Kuldeep for Nadeem

Kuldeep for Nadeem it always should have been......but Axar for Sundar will be a travesty

Probably of little interest for now, but England have named their squad for the upcoming five-match T20 series against India:

Squad: Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) (captain), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jofra Archer (Sussex), Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire), Sam Billings (Kent), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Sam Curran (Surrey), Tom Curran (Surrey), Chris Jordan (Sussex), Liam Livingstone (Lancashire), Dawid Malan (Yorkshire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), Reece Topley (Surrey), Mark Wood (Durham)

Reserves: Jake Ball (Nottinghamshire), Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)

The main headline, I think, is Liam Livingstone getting back into the squad after having a successful conclusion to his Big Bash stint. Alex Hales not recalled after a brilliant Big Bash, but I think he has an unpublished life-time ban from England duty.

Certainly little sign of England resting players for this series as they build up to the T20 World Cup.

As you say , Duty , minor interest at the moment. But squad makes reasonable sense. Most of them are white ball only at present ; and of the others Archer , Buttler , Bairstow , Sam C , Stokes and Wood are either recently or currently on Test Rest so it seems consistent with the overall rotation policy.

Should be of moderate interest as it is pertinent to the world cup and shows where the focus is this winter.

Should be another note that Livingstone is the beneficiary of Bantons struggles, and England finally giving up on trying to make Denly happen. Still no second spin option other than Mo, guess he also covers off Denly as a player who can muddle
out a couple of overs of variety on demand.

Hales, previously he wasnt performing so making no demands to be looked at again. As it is sure he had a good BBL, caveat that its not been a strong tournament this year with lower numbers of foreign stars due to COVID and some big name home players in the test bubble. Vaughn was all over him on commentary but I assume he has a stake in his management? Wouldn't be the first time he's misused his media roles to sell a used car. He was suggesting that its just Morgan standing in the way, which I dont believe is that case at all. Whilst the team management may have changed there's still selectors around and plenty of team members who weren't just peed off at his behaviour but also his reaction to getting left out of the world cup squad.

If England were short on batting there would be a much stronger case for him, but unless he can suddenly develop some handy off spin he's a risk they don't need to take (cough Root cough). Not only do they already have stacks of batsmen that equal him and are leaving some class out (cough Root cough) but also being a top order bat doesn't solve the issue they were tinkering with. Arguably Bantons exclusion (and Roots) is down to them not being finishers (Banton was tried down the order and struggled), Billings the beneficiary of this.

Then you could also look at the age profile of the squad and where Hales would fit into that, he would be very much a short term pick with the next world cup in mind.

Its certainly not cut and dried and I wouldn't have been upset if he'd been given a lifeline, but there's far more complexity to it than some of the social media and Vaughns narrative would suggest. This isn't just a case of a personal issue from Morgan.

Guardian reporting that Hales may well be offered the chance to train with the T20 squad over the summer as the first chance of forcing his way back in. I guess if there was some friction between him and the rest of the squad still, locking them all in together in India might not be the smartest idea!

Hales's seems a case of the longer he's out of the side, the more incredible a player he becomes. Not surprising old rent-a-quote Vaughan is hitching his wagon to the latest twitter storm. I'm sure he'd have loved someone undermining 3/4 years of hard work before the biggest tournament of many players lives if he was captain of course...

In the real world even when he was dropped from the white ball sides, Roy and Bairstow was the #1 opening partnership anyways, and England have plenty of similar or more talented batsmen in his spot who they can trust over him both now and for the future. Maybe they give him a chance to redeem himself in the summer, but in what is a crucial series for pre-World T20 planning/preparation, leaving him on the sidelines is clearly the right move.

No third spin option suggests that England are still looking to use the pace/seam attack to bowl most the overs in the World Cup. I'd say from the recent T20 squads that most the side is settled.

1.Buttler (wk)
2.Roy
3.Malan
4.Bairstow
5.Stokes
6.Morgan (c)

That seems nailed on if they keep form and fitness. Billings and Livingstone offer depth as finishers at 6 with Morgan and Bairstow able to shift up very adeptly.

9.Jordan
10.Archer
11.Rashid

I'd say those three seem pretty nailed on as well with the same caveats of form and fitness.

That leaves the very important 7 spot for a bowling all rounder that can score quickly. Surran and Mo are both good options. Sam doing well in the IPL has helped England's depth there.

Then the final bowling spot may well be horses for courses with Turran an additional death bowler, Wood offering pace and Topley the left-arm angle plus 6'7" frame that makes yorkers hard to dig out.

I did wonder if Woakes might get a recall for this series. He hasn't played a T20i since 2015 but is integral to the ODI side has a good T20 record and is clearly trusted by Morgan. I did wonder if that combined with his lower order batting might see him brought in from the cold with a World Cup looming. The bowling options are solid though and Turran is no mug with the bat.

Personally I'd have given Parkinson a shot given Indian conditions and his remarkable T20 record. There is a lot of pressure on Dilly and remarkable though he is for England in white ball cricket he has had injury issues.

Gah some potential bad news - Archer expected to miss the 2nd test with a stomach bug, which was troubling him on day 4/5 of the last test.

Know it would be a risk, but if he is indeed unwell and out, then I'd like to see Stone come in.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Gah some potential bad news - Archer expected to miss the 2nd test with a stomach bug, which was troubling him on day 4/5 of the last test.

Know it would be a risk, but if he is indeed unwell and out, then I'd like to see Stone come in.

A big blow if the case. I think we do need pace so I'd prefer Stone coming in as well I think. Keeps Jimmy fresh for the day-night Test as well.

king_carlos wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Gah some potential bad news - Archer expected to miss the 2nd test with a stomach bug, which was troubling him on day 4/5 of the last test.

Know it would be a risk, but if he is indeed unwell and out, then I'd like to see Stone come in.

A big blow if the case. I think we do need pace so I'd prefer Stone coming in as well I think. Keeps Jimmy fresh for the day-night Test as well.

England announce he is out, albeit they announce it due to an injection in his right elbow, which is more worrying than a stomach bug!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Gah some potential bad news - Archer expected to miss the 2nd test with a stomach bug, which was troubling him on day 4/5 of the last test.

Know it would be a risk, but if he is indeed unwell and out, then I'd like to see Stone come in.

A big blow if the case. I think we do need pace so I'd prefer Stone coming in as well I think. Keeps Jimmy fresh for the day-night Test as well.

England announce he is out, albeit they announce it due to an injection in his right elbow, which is more worrying than a stomach bug!

Potentially a bigger blow if he were out for the series. Though Wood will be back for T3 and T4, could potentially play both. He pulled through back to back Tests in Sri Lanka. Admittedly he didn't bowl in the second innings of T2 there but Anderson and Curran only bowled a few between them before the spinners came on and took 10 wickets.

I hope that Woakes isn't called upon as an experienced hand. He has improved a lot as a bowler since his last Tests on the subcontinent in 2016 but Broad and Woakes would be very one paced. There must be a temptation to pick Jimmy and Broad together but again that is one paced and would then be asking Jimmy to play 3 Tests in a row if he is used in the day-nighter. Those sorts of pace attacks are asking for Stokes to be called on for frequent long spells as well which isn't ideal.

I hope that Stone gets the chance but it would be a big challenge for him I admit. He would be taking the new ball against a very good batting lineup with early wickets vital. Rohit hasn't fired since returning to the Test side but if he and Gill get in on a flat wicket they could do huge damage before a big middle order even arrives at the crease. A tough call ahead for Silverwood.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Gah some potential bad news - Archer expected to miss the 2nd test with a stomach bug, which was troubling him on day 4/5 of the last test.

Know it would be a risk, but if he is indeed unwell and out, then I'd like to see Stone come in.

stomach bug gets over in 3 to 4 days normally

king_carlos wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Gah some potential bad news - Archer expected to miss the 2nd test with a stomach bug, which was troubling him on day 4/5 of the last test.

Know it would be a risk, but if he is indeed unwell and out, then I'd like to see Stone come in.

A big blow if the case. I think we do need pace so I'd prefer Stone coming in as well I think. Keeps Jimmy fresh for the day-night Test as well.

England announce he is out, albeit they announce it due to an injection in his right elbow, which is more worrying than a stomach bug!

Potentially a bigger blow if he were out for the series. Though Wood will be back for T3 and T4, could potentially play both. He pulled through back to back Tests in Sri Lanka. Admittedly he didn't bowl in the second innings of T2 there but Anderson and Curran only bowled a few between them before the spinners came on and took 10 wickets.

I hope that Woakes isn't called upon as an experienced hand. He has improved a lot as a bowler since his last Tests on the subcontinent in 2016 but Broad and Woakes would be very one paced. There must be a temptation to pick Jimmy and Broad together but again that is one paced and would then be asking Jimmy to play 3 Tests in a row if he is used in the day-nighter. Those sorts of pace attacks are asking for Stokes to be called on for frequent long spells as well which isn't ideal.

I hope that Stone gets the chance but it would be a big challenge for him I admit. He would be taking the new ball against a very good batting lineup with early wickets vital. Rohit hasn't fired since returning to the Test side but if he and Gill get in on a flat wicket they could do huge damage before a big middle order even arrives at the crease. A tough call ahead for Silverwood.

Sliverwood fudged around the idea of playing Broad and Anderson together when asked. Pretty much a "yeah they are both good enough but also we want to vary and balance the attack and manage them". Seemed to a case of be ideal world we'd play them both with two spinners and a quick and Stokes and have enough batting and not have to worry about who plays in the following test. But in reality we will pick one of them in turn.

I'd say Stone is the most likely, then Anderson and Broad, then Woakes or whoevers knocking about the squad. Its not ideal but then he didnt contribute a great deal in T1 so not the end of the world either. You'd still expect Leach and Bess to do the heavy lifting regardless of who's picked. If Stone doesn't get the spot of Archer you have to ask why they bothered bringing him at all, even if its just for one test till either Archers fit or Wood can jump in.

Gooseberry wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Gah some potential bad news - Archer expected to miss the 2nd test with a stomach bug, which was troubling him on day 4/5 of the last test.

Know it would be a risk, but if he is indeed unwell and out, then I'd like to see Stone come in.

A big blow if the case. I think we do need pace so I'd prefer Stone coming in as well I think. Keeps Jimmy fresh for the day-night Test as well.

England announce he is out, albeit they announce it due to an injection in his right elbow, which is more worrying than a stomach bug!

Potentially a bigger blow if he were out for the series. Though Wood will be back for T3 and T4, could potentially play both. He pulled through back to back Tests in Sri Lanka. Admittedly he didn't bowl in the second innings of T2 there but Anderson and Curran only bowled a few between them before the spinners came on and took 10 wickets.

I hope that Woakes isn't called upon as an experienced hand. He has improved a lot as a bowler since his last Tests on the subcontinent in 2016 but Broad and Woakes would be very one paced. There must be a temptation to pick Jimmy and Broad together but again that is one paced and would then be asking Jimmy to play 3 Tests in a row if he is used in the day-nighter. Those sorts of pace attacks are asking for Stokes to be called on for frequent long spells as well which isn't ideal.

I hope that Stone gets the chance but it would be a big challenge for him I admit. He would be taking the new ball against a very good batting lineup with early wickets vital. Rohit hasn't fired since returning to the Test side but if he and Gill get in on a flat wicket they could do huge damage before a big middle order even arrives at the crease. A tough call ahead for Silverwood.

Sliverwood fudged around the idea of playing Broad and Anderson together when asked. Pretty much a "yeah they are both good enough but also we want to vary and balance the attack and manage them". Seemed to a case of be ideal world we'd play them both with two spinners and a quick and Stokes and have enough batting and not have to worry about who plays in the following test.  But in reality we will pick one of them in turn.  

I'd say Stone is the most likely, then Anderson and Broad, then Woakes or whoevers knocking about the squad. Its not ideal but then he didnt contribute a great deal in T1 so not the end of the world either. You'd still expect Leach and Bess to do the heavy lifting regardless of who's picked. If Stone doesn't get the spot of Archer you have to ask why they bothered bringing him at all, even if its just for one test till either Archers fit or Wood can jump in.

Quite right that Silverwood fudged that question. Much as we all want to know, there's no benefit in giving Kohli and co two days' notice.

England picked Bess for the first Test when it would have been easy to go back to Moeen and say it was due to his batting, more experienced etc. etc. but they stuck with Bess because he deserved his chance on the back of his wickets in SL and the fact he was the man in possession. Surely, if they have picked Stone as cover for Archer as the pace man, he has to be the pick? Anyone else and you are basically saying we don't trust you now we have a realistic chance of getting something our of the series!

Although I will continue to champion Ollie Robinson as a potential gun operator and he is out there as a reserve. Albeit he doesn't fit the express pace role!

Has to be Stone to come in. Anderson absolutely has to play the third test because of the pink ball factor, and there's little chance of him being able to if he's chosen to play tests one and two. Woakes isn't a good bowler overseas, and Moeen can't be drafted in as a third spinner option because that would leave England light on seam bowlers.

Agree it would be a tough game for Stone, but it's cricket at the highest level and it's meant to be difficult. He's currently the back-up option behind Archer and Wood in the 90MPH+ role, yet we've seen very little of him other than a test match against a hapless Irish batting side. Get him in and let's see what he's made of.

Archer's suffered elbow problems before so this sounds quite problematic, especially if he needed an injection to get him through the last test.

Not good news. I agree Stone is the logical replacement , whatever they do regarding the Anderson/Broad rotation ; but it probably isn't the ideal time to chuck Stone into the cauldron...then again , when is ?

Does highlight the downside to the rest and rotate deal : in an ideal world Wood would be on hand to step straight back in to resume his fine Sri Lankan form.  Unfortunately that is not the world we all currently inhabit.

The Woakes alternative would seem a bit risky. His record in these parts isn't too flash , though I suspect he has improved since last visit. He looks a better bet for the pink ball game in the somewhat unlikely case in which they elect to go with Broad and Anderson for this game (unlikely , but possible , I guess) or in the event of more injuries.

A real pity Archer has had this issue. He didn't tear down trees in this match , though his opening spell was excellent. But in the context of that game , on that pitch , I reckon his performance was far and away his best since those initial Tests against Australia ; and I was really looking forward to seeing how well he backed up.  Consolation perhaps (depending how the series progresses) : if he gets fit again over the reasonably short time , it is possible he might be fresh for a 4th Test tilt if Wood has burnt a lot of petrol in game three...but that is really getting ahead of ourselves.

Think we should be grateful there are currently so many pace bowling options around. Australia is rightly hailed as being a country with a wealth of pace options : but in the recent India series they found they had none - that they trusted - even when it was fairly clear that at least one of their first choice quicks was running on fumes. I reckon it basically cost them the series.

Minor personal note : at least I will be able to watch this second game from the start as consolation for my own match scheduled for tomorrow being abruptly cancelled as Victoria is plunged back into hard lockdown for five days from tonight.

Those of you wrestling with thousands of cases and far too many daily deaths might think it bizarre that our local authorities have reacted so savagely to some 13 cases in a quarantine hotel. But I think the government is very twitchy at present given they have allowed a major tennis tournament to proceed (still going on even now , but without any spectators from tonight) while still limiting return of residents. And with obvious major problems persisting with quarantine arrangements. Politics.

Anyway not crying over a minor annoyance , others have a lot more to worry about. But being in good recent form I am disappointed one of three remaining matches is gone from this already shortened season...hope the Test Match makes up for it !

.@englandcricket have announced a twelve-man squad for the second Test against India.

Out go Dom Bess, Jimmy Anderson, Jos Buttler and Jofra Archer.

In come Ben Foakes, Moeen Ali, Olly Stone, Stuart Broad and Chris Woakes.


So Moeen in for Bess, Foakes for Buttler, Broad for Anderson and then a shoot out between Stone and Woakes for the final spot.

Very tough on Bess and a gamble on Mo. Bess did look tired bowling in the second innings but has that knack of taking wickets. On balance I'm happier with Mo coming in for a bowler than a batsman. Still a big roll of the dice though.

Mo will probably bat 7 with Foakes shunted down to 8 as well. Which is a minor quibble but I apologise in advance for complaining about it anyway if Foakes bats well but gets stranded with the tail.

As said before I really hope Stone gets a shot. Woakes is a yard faster than his previous appearances in the subcontinent and can hit the pitch hard now so if he were bowling on days 4/5 then might be able to extract some variable bounce. With pitches where the movement on latter days is up and down rather than lateral I often think bowlers who are accurate and can bowl a 'heavy ball' slightly back of a length can extract that variable bounce just as well as true fast bowlers. In the first innings when the pitch is flat Root will need some pace to call on though.

Moeen.

Well I can only hope he proves me wrong. The choice between Woakes and Stone will probably boil down to whether or not England feel they need a little extra batting, and that's if there's a choice - Root commented that Stokes has a sore knee. It may be the case that Stokes can't bowl, in which case both Woakes and Stone will come in to shore up the bowling resources, with Lawrence making way. In better news Crawley's back in the nets so will hopefully return for the third test.

Why is Butler been removed...is it merely pre-emptive rest? If so rest from wha is he being restedt?
There is an American saying "Don't Fix What ain't broke"

Bess dumped .....I told ya his lucky wkts notwithstanding....doesn't look like an international bowler.

Archer's injury whatever it is, will be a big blow to Eng.....and a pity we will not see this most exciting young fast bowler throughout the series.

Why do they not have Wood?...what is wood being rested from?
Though Olly stone from what I saw of in youtube doesn't look bad.....Flintoff like action and a bit short on length will be exciting to watch....if he can sustain he reported 90mph pace in the heat & humidity of chennai

Although if I were selecting I would always pick safe, swinging Woakes who can bat very well too

Duty281 wrote:Moeen.

Well I can only hope he proves me wrong. The choice between Woakes and Stone will probably boil down to whether or not England feel they need a little extra batting, and that's if there's a choice - Root commented that Stokes has a sore knee. It may be the case that Stokes can't bowl, in which case both Woakes and Stone will come in to shore up the bowling resources, with Lawrence making way. In better news Crawley's back in the nets so will hopefully return for the third test.

I do wonder if that’s why Moeen is in...I did comment earlier in the week that if Stokes couldn’t bowl, then Moeen coming in for Lawrence makes sense to keep the middle order in their batting spots (and let’s face it, Moeen can’t do worse at 3 than Lawrence did last test).

Feels a bit harsh on Bess, albeit as Carlos noted he did look tired on day 4/5 of the last test, and did bowl some tripe in between his wicket delivery on day five.

Genuine chance of finally having the Woakes, Stokes, Foakes triple...! Do hope they give Stone a go however

JDizzle wrote:.@englandcricket have announced a twelve-man squad for the second Test against India.

Out go Dom Bess, Jimmy Anderson, Jos Buttler and Jofra Archer.

In come Ben Foakes, Moeen Ali, Olly Stone, Stuart Broad and Chris Woakes.


So Moeen in for Bess, Foakes for Buttler, Broad for Anderson and then a shoot out between Stone and Woakes for the final spot.

So I think depending on Stokes's bowling health, these are the two possible XIs...

Stokes fit to bowl:
Sibley
Burns
Lawrence
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Moeen
Leach
Broad
Stone

If Stokes isn't fit to bowl:
Sibley
Burns
Moeen
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Woakes
Leach
Broad
Stone

Whatever happens, I am really not keen if they end up with Woakes and Broad as the two main seamers.
Love me some Chris Woakes, but if you're not going to play Stone when Archer/Wood are both out, there isn't any point him being on tour.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ind-vs-eng-2nd-test-2020-21-after-slow-start-chepauk-pitch-likely-to-take-fast-turn-in-second-test-1251395

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ind-vs-eng-2nd-test-2020-21-after-slow-start-chepauk-pitch-likely-to-take-fast-turn-in-second-test-1251395

Kind of think this is a mistake? India might still win on it, but making it a raging turner brings England’s lesser spinners into the game and makes it a bit more of a lottery. The first Test pitch was better for India IMO, they just picked the wrong team and the players picked didn’t execute like they can.

OK not happy with the changes - though I recognize most are more or less unavoidable. Reckon it is a considerably weakened team as a result whatever the final XI.

Bess is presumably being given a break because of the tiredness we all observed in the second innings rather than because England share KP_fan's rather dismissive opinion of him. Just hope Moeen is on the ball : Bess was also contributing with the bat so I mean in both areas...He did do well with the bat on the last tour of India : but that was a long way back on Moeen's "form graph".

If the pitch is going to spin like mad then I suspect Olly's first team is correct. The nightmare scenario of Stokes unable to bowl is hopefully just that : while I don't mind having Woakes to bat , and Lawrence is not looking too likely at present , I prefer the current top six to Moeen at three...

Apart from anything else , gooseberry will have a meltdown

JDizzle wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ind-vs-eng-2nd-test-2020-21-after-slow-start-chepauk-pitch-likely-to-take-fast-turn-in-second-test-1251395

Kind of think this is a mistake? India might still win on it, but making it a raging turner brings England’s lesser spinners into the game and makes it a bit more of a lottery. The first Test pitch was better for India IMO, they just picked the wrong team and the players picked didn’t execute like they can.

Would agree JDizzle - found this note from Tim Wigmore interesting - https://twitter.com/timwig/status/1359810765528698880

Making the pitch turn from day one, surely brings Leach/Moeen into the game earlier...both I'd say have shown when it's spinning, are dangerous (think Moeen in Southampton/Sri Lanka, Leach here and in Sri Lanka)...whereas you can clearly get after Leach in particular if it's a fairly dead pitch. Inconsistent bounce surely only going to help Broad, as a hit the deck bowler too.

Albeit we should take it with a note of caution, there was a lot of chat before the 1st test it was going to be a green seamer...