Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

The best thing about our system is that every single person in the country gets an equal vote under equal circumstances. Unless a National ID card scheme is introduced this will just alienate poorer voters. Just another way to rig the system.

BamBam wrote:Not one of them would have responsibility for anything more important than the stationary cupboard in the private sector. Just shows what good quality bootlicking and the right family connections can do

Your 'stationary' comment leaves me unmoved.

One of these days I’ll get that the right way round

Whoever the next PM is they need to be the same calibre of Brexit cowpat merchants as Johnson. These people need to be held accountable for the mess they’ve made.

Dunno, we're running out people who said it would easy and have subsequently failed to deliver when given the opportunity.

Samo wrote:Whoever the next PM is they need to be the same calibre of Brexit cowpat merchants as Johnson. These people need to be held accountable for the mess they’ve made.

There's only trouble ahead for them as far as I can see. For pretty much every other government, the end of the pandemic means a return to normal (as far as that's possible). Economies will recover. When the UK emerges from the pandemic, that recovery will inevitably be hampered by the trade barriers we've chosen to erect between us and our largest and closest market. What will the government blame that on, once their most reliable smokescreen has gone? Will enough of the electorate happily believe it's big bad Brussels? How many of us will believe what the government says, after everything that's happened? Trust is very hard to win back.

When fantasy clashes with reality there is only one winner. The only question is how long they can delay the inevitable

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Samo wrote:Whoever the next PM is they need to be the same calibre of Brexit cowpat merchants as Johnson. These people need to be held accountable for the mess they’ve made.

There's only trouble ahead for them as far as I can see. For pretty much every other government, the end of the pandemic means a return to normal (as far as that's possible). Economies will recover. When the UK emerges from the pandemic, that recovery will inevitably be hampered by the trade barriers we've chosen to erect between us and our largest and closest market. What will the government blame that on, once their most reliable smokescreen has gone? Will enough of the electorate happily believe it's big bad Brussels? How many of us will believe what the government says, after everything that's happened? Trust is very hard to win back.

But we have our blue passports back...

GSC wrote:Dunno, we're running out people who said it would easy and have subsequently failed to deliver when given the opportunity.

Surely there’s plenty more to come!

Steve Baker
Nigel Farage
Mark Francois
Andrew Bridgen
Jacob Rees-Mogg
Andrea Ledsom

We’ve got at least 3 months of comedy value from each of these titans. I reckon there’s one or two on this forum who are convinced that it’ll all be alright once Nigel gets the gig

It's quite telling that this new financial support wasn't agreed during yesterday's cabinet meeting, which Johnson had to come out of empty-handed, but this morning, and announced by the chancellor.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It's quite telling that this new financial support wasn't agreed during yesterday's cabinet meeting, which Johnson had to come out of empty-handed, but this morning, and announced by the chancellor.

You mean the guy who works in the office in No.11 which has a view over the no.10 garden?

"Remember the importance of ventilation," says the man who's allowing nightclubs to stay open.

Tony Blair knighted.

Happy New Year, folks.

Along with David Winton Harding, the billionaire businessman who has donated more than £1.5m to the Tory party. The whole thing stinks.

'Boris Johnson says the energy price cap provides protection for consumers and the government is determined to "do what we can" to help through its payments and allowances.

But he says there is a need for the UK to have a "better supply of cheap and renewable energy" - and says Labour failed to do this when in power.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-59881202

Exactly how long do the Tories need to have been in power before they accept responsibility for things that have or haven't been done?

The Whigs didn't do much about it either.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:'Boris Johnson says the energy price cap provides protection for consumers and the government is determined to "do what we can" to help through its payments and allowances.

But he says there is a need for the UK to have a "better supply of cheap and renewable energy" - and says Labour failed to do this when in power.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-59881202

Exactly how long do the Tories need to have been in power before they accept responsibility for things that have or haven't been done?

Well we almost signed up to an energy tarrif that would have signed us up to spending almost as much on energy each month as we do on our mortgage.

I do appreciate that the UK is not the only country seeing step energy price rises but the failure to replace the gas storage facilities we had was always going to see us more exposed than we should have been.

So much of what is going on is a total disaster, and invariably the government has either made conscious decisions that have made things worse or have avoided making any decisions at all.

PMQ’s is quickly turning into must see TV. Johnson will be shaking hands with as many Covid Positive people be can right now.

I have a feeling he's going to resign. Stonewalling isn't going to cut it, not least with his own MPs, and if he just comes out with a stream of nonsense attacks on what Labour would supposedly do if they were in power, as he tends to do when he's on the defensive at PMQs, it'll just fall so flat. I don't see him having the courage of contrition either. So either he'll get Raab to do PMQs, or he'll die on his @rse, or he resigns before Wednesday lunchtime.

I dont think he’ll resign. He’s too much of a sociopath, he wants to push this as far as he can. A lot more of his MP’s are starting to lose patience though, they’ll want to start rebuilding the partys reputation (HAH) as soon as they can to get into a better position come election time.

Whatever we want him to do and whatever we think of the latest revelations one thing is absolutely certain. His position is very much weakened compared to a few months ago, and he does not have the self awareness, talent or ability to claw his way back.

You saw from his smirking when he was asked about it a couple of days ago that he truly thought he could 'charm' his way out of it. It's clear now that for once that's not going to work for him, so I guess it is going to be insincere contrition at the despatch box today. I'm not sure that's going to be enough. Does the party really want to take this hit for a man who's already done what they needed him to do? And are they really going to effectively condone a prime minister misleading the House, just because he's their man?

Sunak's in Ilfracombe today

I've never seen a murder live on TV before, but Starmer had him on absolute toast. Johnson apologises but refuses to resign and is seemingly hiding behind this inquiry. Typical, trying to ride it out so people forget.

I dont know why we're bothering continuing with the inquiry. A party happened and he admitted to being there. He has lied to Parliament about it, he's bang to rights. Theres surely no way back from this.

PMQs was just the usual undignified spectacle - this time featuring a man, who had an illegal drinks gathering during lockdown but said it was 'work', calling on another man, who also had an illegal drinks gathering (or two, or three) during lockdown but said it was 'work', to resign because of aforementioned gathering(s).

What a farce.

It's a matter of time really

Duty281 wrote:PMQs was just the usual undignified spectacle - this time featuring a man, who had an illegal drinks gathering during lockdown but said it was 'work', calling on another man, who also had an illegal drinks gathering (or two, or three) during lockdown but said it was 'work', to resign because of aforementioned gathering(s).

What a farce.

Pushing the concept of false equivalence to breaking point.

The objective for the Tories is to win (or at least not to lose) seats at future elections, starting with the English local elections in May. Does keeping Johnson as leader after all this make that task easier or harder?

While there will always be a large section of the population who would follow him into the gates of Mordor if he asked them, the papers are starting to turn. Without the might of the right wing press behind him he's dead in the water. Tories should want rid as soon as possible.

There is a suggestion that the May 20th party was to celebrate his recovery from Covid.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:The objective for the Tories is to win (or at least not to lose) seats at future elections, starting with the English local elections in May. Does keeping Johnson as leader after all this make that task easier or harder?

The answer to that really is't obvious - comes down to whether a damaged Boris is more of a vote (seat / council) loser if the Midlands and Shires than no Boris is in the north. Basically I don't think the Tories have another leader who can hang on to the former Red Wall seats, even against Starmer as the Labour leader*

* Starmer's appeal, such as he has any, is definitely to the metropolitan middle classes, as a more lefty version of Blair, rather than to the more working class northern heartlands of socialism and nationalised industry.

Fortunately for Bojo, Prince Andrew is already stealing the headlines. Britain can certainly be proud of its ruling classes.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:The objective for the Tories is to win (or at least not to lose) seats at future elections, starting with the English local elections in May. Does keeping Johnson as leader after all this make that task easier or harder?

2022 local elections will be interesting. In 2018, where most of the seats being contested were last up for election, Labour was the party on the upswing and the Tories were in a slight slump. With that in mind, there may not be many losses for the Tories to deal with.

Worth noting, also, that Labour performed extremely poorly at last year's local elections, so if the Tories do encounter losses it'll be intriguing to see if they fall mostly into Labour's hands or a combination of the smaller parties.

Keeping Johnson as leader doesn't look to be viable in the medium or long-term, so right now I'd expect him to resign by summer. Summer would be the ideal for the Tories because it's the best time to run a leadership contest. But whether the next leader is successful or not depends, of course, on who it is. I'm not convinced Truss or Gove would be massive vote winners! It would be better, I think, for the Tories to go for an unknown or almost unknown that isn't in the public eye so much, as that person may be better able to distance themselves from the corruption and scandal of the Johnson years.

JuliusHMarx wrote:Fortunately for Bojo, Prince Andrew is already stealing the headlines. Britain can certainly be proud of its ruling classes.

Prince Andrew - scum, no doubt, but a smokescreen.

I'd say Jeremy Hunt is well placed. Runner-up last time, and never a member of a Johnson cabinet.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'd say Jeremy Hunt is well placed. Runner-up last time, and never a member of a Johnson cabinet.

That would cheer up some lefty broadcasters who love to giggle as they 'accidentally' mispronounce his name.

But, yes, well-placed if he chooses to run again.

Sunak seems to be favourite, followed by Truss and Hunt.

Hunt is relatively untainted (apart from the prepandemic NHS underfunding thing) and is at least competent but none of them are inspiring

lostinwales wrote:Sunak seems to be favourite, followed by Truss and Hunt.

Hunt is relatively untainted (apart from the prepandemic NHS underfunding thing) and is at least competent but none of them are inspiring

If Jeremy Hunt is one of the top contenders, it shows what a shallow pool the Tories are picking from...

Duty281 wrote:PMQs was just the usual undignified spectacle - this time featuring a man, who had an illegal drinks gathering during lockdown but said it was 'work', calling on another man, who also had an illegal drinks gathering (or two, or three) during lockdown but said it was 'work', to resign because of aforementioned gathering(s).

What a farce.

It was quite entertaining to see the backbench Tories asking questions on anything else they possibly could, and acting like the apology and the party hadn't happened.

And then every other question being someone telling Boris he has to quit, with the answer being "wait until the inquiry is completed"

If Boris thinks he can wait this out, he's drastically underestimating the depth of public feeling on this. Suggest they should probably go early on punting him

One look at the undermining and belittling the likes of Gove and Rees-Mogg are showing to Scottish Tory leader Douglas Ross after he dared to stick by his comments and call for Johnson to resign is a great example of why so many north of the border are completely disillusioned with the union.

Samo wrote:One look at the undermining and belittling the likes of Gove and Rees-Mogg are showing to Scottish Tory leader Douglas Ross after he dared to stick by his comments and call for Johnson to resign is a great example of why so many north of the border are completely disillusioned with the union.

Why? Are so many Scottish people unaware these tedious political games go on in any political party?

Duty281 wrote:

Samo wrote:One look at the undermining and belittling the likes of Gove and Rees-Mogg are showing to Scottish Tory leader Douglas Ross after he dared to stick by his comments and call for Johnson to resign is a great example of why so many north of the border are completely disillusioned with the union.

Why? Are so many Scottish people unaware these tedious political games go on in any political party?

It isn't a game to everybody and the 'well THEY do it too' argument (which some are pushing now and plenty pushed in support of Trump) is very poor one.

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Samo wrote:One look at the undermining and belittling the likes of Gove and Rees-Mogg are showing to Scottish Tory leader Douglas Ross after he dared to stick by his comments and call for Johnson to resign is a great example of why so many north of the border are completely disillusioned with the union.

Why? Are so many Scottish people unaware these tedious political games go on in any political party?

It isn't a game to everybody and the 'well THEY do it too' argument (which some are pushing now and plenty pushed in support of Trump) is very poor one.

It's just a point. Politics is politics wherever you go - full of liars, backstabbers, sycophants and duplicitous clowns. Doesn't matter if it's the most parochial parish council or the House of Commons.

And it's definitely a game to the people who play it.

Duty281 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Samo wrote:One look at the undermining and belittling the likes of Gove and Rees-Mogg are showing to Scottish Tory leader Douglas Ross after he dared to stick by his comments and call for Johnson to resign is a great example of why so many north of the border are completely disillusioned with the union.

Why? Are so many Scottish people unaware these tedious political games go on in any political party?

It isn't a game to everybody and the 'well THEY do it too' argument (which some are pushing now and plenty pushed in support of Trump) is very poor one.

It's just a point. Politics is politics wherever you go - full of liars, backstabbers, sycophants  and duplicitous clowns. Doesn't matter if it's the most parochial parish council or the House of Commons.

And it's definitely a game to the people who play it.

Yes but there comes a point when the line has been crossed. To Johnson its always a game, always a campaign. And he's been good at that. But he's never shown the inclination to do the job he worked so hard to obtain. He still treats it as a game. People accept or ignore the the gaming to a certain point, relying on historical experience that, more or less, things will be OK. But there are always things that actually do matter to people. Scots do care how they are treated by their neighbours.

Although its almost certainly not the worst of his actions the picture of johnson partying when people's relatives died alone has crossed the line and then some.

When you add in the people prosecuted for much minor transgressions based on the rules his government put in place. When you consider the people forced to resign over related issues - like Stratton for just talking about the parties - he's in huge trouble.

You have to give credit to the Scottish Conservatives for seeing the writing on the wall and acting on it. The sooner the wider party does the same and washes its hands of him the better. It's only going to damage 'the brand' further if they allow Johnson to limp on - and the opposition parties will be delighted if they do.

Duty281 wrote:

Samo wrote:One look at the undermining and belittling the likes of Gove and Rees-Mogg are showing to Scottish Tory leader Douglas Ross after he dared to stick by his comments and call for Johnson to resign is a great example of why so many north of the border are completely disillusioned with the union.

Why? Are so many Scottish people unaware these tedious political games go on in any political party?

Its got nothing to do with political games. The cabinet are always going to defend their PM, but its the undermining that highlights a bigger issue.

I dont like Douglas Ross, never have, never will. But he holds a seriously powerful position in Scotland as leader of the Scottish Tories and leader of the opposition in parliament. By writing him off as "just a Scottish MP" is a slap in the face and shows a huge lack of respect to what goes on in Scotland.

Not to mention that it's an absolute gift to the SNP.

It's ok the inquiry will find no evidence of criminality. Some aides will get sacrificed, nothing to see here etc

Looks like the Liar in Chief is almost finished drawing up plans for Operation Save Big Dog (yes, really). He’s likely to promise reform of No. 10, and sack a load of office staff to save his own skin. It seems he thinks this, coupled with likely exoneration from the inquiry will be enough to get the public back on side, but I think his reputation is beyond repair. Well, what little reputation he had left.

If you’re one of the office staff being lined up against the wall, surely you would want one hell of a severance package to agree to sign an NDA, or else what would stop you going straight to the press to throw even more fuel on the fire? This could backfire massively. It’ll be pretty funny when it does.

It will backfire. How I don't know yet, but it is almost guaranteed. The stories about how they were trying to stop him mixing when he had covid. The man has no self control at all.

In the meantime they will try anything to take the attention away from Johnson. Trash the BBC? Asylum seekers? Knight Williamson?