Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

The best thing about our system is that every single person in the country gets an equal vote under equal circumstances. Unless a National ID card scheme is introduced this will just alienate poorer voters. Just another way to rig the system.

It is better to have an orderly transition than a disorderly transition. Of course the opposition parties would prefer a disorderly transition as that would enhance their opportunities for enhancing their own political power.  ps: I suppose this depends how long the transition will take and how truly bad and unworkable it is to work under Boris.

Even in resignation he's a disgrace. Just Frak off already.

Johnson to the end. No apology. No shame. No integrity.

Just when you think the world couldn't get any weirder, I've just seen a suggestion that rather than Raab stepping up and acting as an interim PM, Theresa May might be asked to do the job. The rationale being that she knows the rpoes and all the security staff, and has no further ambition to become party leader and PM after October.

No name Bertie wrote:It is better to have an orderly transition than a disorderly transition. Of course the opposition parties would prefer a disorderly transition as that would enhance their opportunities for enhancing their own political power.  ps: I suppose this depends how long the transition will take and how truly bad and unworkable it is to work under Boris.

There is no orderly transition with that fool in no.10. His party has all but disowned him and he has no authority any more. An orderly transition can only take place with a caretaker PM, even if that caretaker is someone like Raaaaaab. Him staying will only guarantee complete chaos.

Samo wrote:

dummy_half wrote:

Samo wrote:Brexit hardman Steve Baker has thrown his hat in the ring aswell. Christ we’re in bother. I only take comfort knowing that most of them cant be as bad as Johnson.

Are you sure? I don't see anyone in the shower of sh!te that is likely to be any better, unless the Conservative party membership come to their senses and select someone outside of the cadre of Brexit ideologues and Johnson sycophants. And even then, isn't Jeremy Hunt top of the list? Uninspiring is the kindest thing I can say.

There are atleast a few who are semi-competent,  and wont lurch from scandal to scandal.  Johnson was wholly unfit to lead a village fete, let alone a government position.  Surely has to go down in history as one of the worst PM's ever, certainly the worst in living memory, certainly of the last 100 years.

And it really is a sad indictment of the Tory party that with 357 possible options, we still can't name one person, with any confidence, who would do a better job.

guildfordbat wrote:Johnson to the end. No apology. No shame. No integrity.

I would have expected nothing else... He still thinks he's a victim.

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Johnson to the end. No apology. No shame. No integrity.

I would have expected nothing else... He still thinks he's a victim.  

Very Trumpian... Obviously can't be that he's ever done anything wrong.

It's a very undignified end to an undignified premiership.

There was a chance that history could have been kinder to Johnson than how contemporaries view him. At the helm during Covid and a constitutional overhaul, it could be argued that he faced the toughest job of any PM since Churchill's first stint, and he may have been viewed in increasing favour as the years ticked by - similar to how Gordon Brown is seen nowadays.

But this dismal end has ensured Johnson's premiership will be viewed in highly unfavourable terms. The Tories need to ensure that he leaves ASAP.

I never had any high expectations of Johnson, because I've always thought of him in low regard as a politician, and so it has proved. He squandered an 80-seat majority and had no vision, no ideas, no anything.  Like Cameron and Blair before him, he only wanted power for power's sake, he had no ideas as to how to transform the country. And that's largely what we see across Westminster - vision-less, idea-less clones of each other, well personified by the political non-entity that is Starmer.

Johnson's premiership took a fatal blow when Cummings left, and it is only due to the insipidness of the opposition that allowed him to go on for so long.

I hope the Tories don't drag out the leadership contest for months. There should be no reason why they can't get it done in 2-3 weeks, especially as most of it is done inhouse. Only the final two get put to the members.

We'll wait and see the list of confirmed contenders. For now the majority of those rumoured to be running look a typically bland and uninspiring bunch. The Tories need to go back to their roots, after over a decade of gradually drifting to the centre - small-government, low-tax (cut VAT especially) and plenty of deregulation as the baseline. That can fire up their base who are drifting into a state of inertia. Then they need to offer policies that focus on housing expansion, moves toward greater self-sufficiency in energy as a means of lowering bills (focusing on nuclear and coal), and cutting crime to win/retain working-class and lower middle-class voters. Back to basics.  Oh and scrap the TV licence fee. Immediately.

Despite everything, the new leader will inherit a good deck of cards - a big majority, another GE isn't for two years, and the opposition is dismal.  A polling bounce when the new leader arrives will likely put the Tories back into the lead.

I see Sunak is considered one of the leading contenders, which is a laugh - the only Tory considered more unpopular than him is Johnson! Raab not running for the leadership, he wouldn't have got anywhere near in any case. I suppose Johnson will also resign his seat of Uxbridge in time, so one of the first things the new Tory leader will have to contend with, most likely, is a by-election.

How disrespectful to his own MPs, who gave him more second chances than he ever deserved, to refer to them as 'the herd'. Forgive me, but he really is a Kumquat.

Turns out on of the reasons he’s so keen to cling to power is he and his delightful wife have organized a lavish piss up at Chequers for their wedding anniversary. He’s not even Prime Minister anymore and he’s already caught up in another self made scandal. You couldnt make it up.

Tugendhat is the first serious contender out of the gate, writing an article in the Telegraph announcing his run. And the comments below the article proceeded to tear him apart, which was good to see.

I see Patel is also considering a run - does she, like Sunak who is also contemplating a challenge, not grasp her unpopularity with the electorate at large?

Duty281 wrote:Tugendhat is the first serious contender out of the gate, writing an article in the Telegraph announcing his run. And the comments below the article proceeded to tear him apart, which was good to see.

I see Patel is also considering a run - does she, like Sunak who is also contemplating a challenge, not grasp her unpopularity with the electorate at large?

Can't see Patel making much headway with the Conservative rank and file - an opinionated woman over-promoted far beyond her level of competence. Sunak has probably blown his chance as well, firstly with the non-Dom issue and then with being one of Boris's assassins - I think he might have proven to be a competent if uninspiring leader, probably a bit too focussed on the micro-detail (a bit like Gordon Brown), not that that is necessarily a bad thing after incompetent but charismatic Boris, who had no attention to detail whatsoever.

There was some polling yesterday that showed Starmer with better favourability than all of the contenders bar Sunak, which really surprised me. I thought Sunak stood no chance.

dummy_half wrote:... Sunak has probably blown his chance as well, firstly with the non-Dom issue and then with being one of Boris's assassins ....

Maybe that will go in Sunak's favor once all the stories about Boris Johnson start getting more widely known. I don't know much about Priti Patel but she seems to get things done even if that means going against protocol but maybe she is too inexperienced for PM.

dummy_half wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Tugendhat is the first serious contender out of the gate, writing an article in the Telegraph announcing his run. And the comments below the article proceeded to tear him apart, which was good to see.

I see Patel is also considering a run - does she, like Sunak who is also contemplating a challenge, not grasp her unpopularity with the electorate at large?

Can't see Patel making much headway with the Conservative rank and file - an opinionated woman over-promoted far beyond her level of competence. Sunak has probably blown his chance as well, firstly with the non-Dom issue and then with being one of Boris's assassins - I think he might have proven to be a competent if uninspiring leader, probably a bit too focussed on the micro-detail (a bit like Gordon Brown), not that that is necessarily a bad thing after incompetent but charismatic Boris, who had no attention to detail whatsoever.

Sunak could possibly suffer from the Heseltine effect but I don't think Johnson's popularity with party members remained like Thatcher's in 90. It's between Wallace, Sunak and my dark horse Penny Mordaunt (of all the possibles is tainted least by recent events). Ben Wallace has one massive thing in his favour, active service in Northern Ireland.

No name Bertie wrote:

dummy_half wrote:... Sunak has probably blown his chance as well, firstly with the non-Dom issue and then with being one of Boris's assassins ....

Maybe that will go in Sunak's favor once all the stories about Boris Johnson start getting more widely known.  I don't know much about Priti Patel but she seems to get things done even if that means going against protocol but maybe she is too inexperienced for PM.  

How exactly has Priti Patel 'got things done'?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:

dummy_half wrote:... Sunak has probably blown his chance as well, firstly with the non-Dom issue and then with being one of Boris's assassins ....

Maybe that will go in Sunak's favor once all the stories about Boris Johnson start getting more widely known.  I don't know much about Priti Patel but she seems to get things done even if that means going against protocol but maybe she is too inexperienced for PM.  

How exactly has Priti Patel 'got things done'?

Well, the only conceivable reason for her being in the Cabinet is she was doing Boris.

Soul Requiem wrote:

dummy_half wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Tugendhat is the first serious contender out of the gate, writing an article in the Telegraph announcing his run. And the comments below the article proceeded to tear him apart, which was good to see.

I see Patel is also considering a run - does she, like Sunak who is also contemplating a challenge, not grasp her unpopularity with the electorate at large?

Can't see Patel making much headway with the Conservative rank and file - an opinionated woman over-promoted far beyond her level of competence. Sunak has probably blown his chance as well, firstly with the non-Dom issue and then with being one of Boris's assassins - I think he might have proven to be a competent if uninspiring leader, probably a bit too focussed on the micro-detail (a bit like Gordon Brown), not that that is necessarily a bad thing after incompetent but charismatic Boris, who had no attention to detail whatsoever.

Sunak could possibly suffer from the Heseltine effect but I don't think Johnson's popularity with party members remained like Thatcher's in 90. It's between Wallace, Sunak and my dark horse Penny Mordaunt (of all the possibles is tainted least by recent events). Ben Wallace has one massive thing in his favour, active service in Northern Ireland.

dummy_half wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:

dummy_half wrote:... Sunak has probably blown his chance as well, firstly with the non-Dom issue and then with being one of Boris's assassins ....

Maybe that will go in Sunak's favor once all the stories about Boris Johnson start getting more widely known.  I don't know much about Priti Patel but she seems to get things done even if that means going against protocol but maybe she is too inexperienced for PM.  

How exactly has Priti Patel 'got things done'?

Well, the only conceivable reason for her being in the Cabinet is she was doing Boris.

The height difference would help.

Duty281 wrote:...
I never had any high expectations of Johnson, because I've always thought of him in low regard as a politician, and so it has proved. He squandered an 80-seat majority and had no vision, no ideas, no anything.  Like Cameron and Blair before him, he only wanted power for power's sake, he had no ideas as to how to transform the country. And that's largely what we see across Westminster - vision-less, idea-less clones of each other, well personified by the political non-entity that is Starmer.

...

I fundamentally disagree with the line you take about Blair. I think it is perfectly acceptable to discuss how he changed over the years in power, but when he first got the keys to no.10 he had a plan and a government that worked hard. He also left no.10 without fuss

I'd be kind of interested to see one of Mordaunt, Mercer, Wallace, Ellwood or Tugendhat get the nod. Mordaunt's kept her head down recently, but given the utter horse most of the rest of the alleged candidates typically talk, would be happy with any of the above. At least we might expect some character and adherence to rules etc.

Suspect the problem for whomever eventually gets it is all the cretins on the backbenches that'll continually carp on an on. As long as Rees-Mogg, Baker and any of the Brexit wonks are nowhere near anything come the end, I can live with that.

Still, at least the cluster**** that is Johnson's tenure is ending. Even the sun's come out in support of that, so maybe there is a God...

Keir Starmer not fined by the police because he isn't a twonk unlike our departing PM

BamBam wrote:Keir Starmer not fined by the police because he isn't a twonk unlike our departing PM

Always felt like a bit of a drummed-up charge to try and deflect from Boris's actions.

Further good news for the next Tory leader then, no danger of a strong opposition for the next couple of years and at the next GE.

Great news for all the flag shagging fantasists, I agree

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Labour vote share down outside London...Sadly that's where most of the marginals are..

Corbyn dud better outside the Capital in 2018..without a standard of living crisis.

Might have something to do with the Mail relentlessly pushing the "Beergate" non story all week - which they predictably dropped the day after the election.

Non story....

Oh look at that. A non story after all.

The usual suspects on Twitter are losing their sh!t over this. It's been a tough couple of days for them.

Speaking of which, today's Mail front page is wild enough, tomorrow's really could be special.

Duty281 wrote:Further good news for the next Tory leader then, no danger of a strong opposition for the next couple of years and at the next GE.

By that, do you mean they won't have a posturing fool opposite them at PMQs etc? Personally, I'd rather a rational, fact-based individual in a leading role within our politics and I don't give a stuff if some think he's 'dull' or some other nonsense accusation.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:The usual suspects on Twitter are losing their sh!t over this. It's been a tough couple of days for them.

Speaking of which, today's Mail front page is wild enough, tomorrow's really could be special.

Maybe Dacre will have a coronary? Never know...

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Further good news for the next Tory leader then, no danger of a strong opposition for the next couple of years and at the next GE.

By that, do you mean they won't have a posturing fool opposite them at PMQs etc? Personally, I'd rather a rational, fact-based individual in a leading role within our politics and I don't give a stuff if some think he's 'dull' or some other nonsense accusation.

I mean that Starmer has no ideas, no vision, no charisma and this is why the general public's reception of Labour under Starmer can be best described as 'lukewarm'. He is essentially Ed Miliband all over again. If Starmer had been dislodged as leader then Labour may have been able to find a new leader with those qualities. In an ideal world of course charisma/image etc. wouldn't matter, but it does in our democracy.

I'm not so sure that Starmer can be described as 'fact-based'. He lies like any usual politician, though certainly not as much as Johnson.

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Further good news for the next Tory leader then, no danger of a strong opposition for the next couple of years and at the next GE.

By that, do you mean they won't have a posturing fool opposite them at PMQs etc? Personally, I'd rather a rational, fact-based individual in a leading role within our politics and I don't give a stuff if some think he's 'dull' or some other nonsense accusation.

I mean that Starmer has no ideas, no vision, no charisma and this is why the general public's reception of Labour under Starmer can be best described as 'lukewarm'. He is essentially Ed Miliband all over again. If Starmer had been dislodged as leader then Labour may have been able to find a new leader with those qualities. In an ideal world of course charisma/image etc. wouldn't matter, but it does in our democracy.

I'm not so sure that Starmer can be described as 'fact-based'. He lies like any usual politician, though certainly not as much as Johnson.

He’s hardly going to be throwing out manifesto pledges a year or two away from a GE. Unless its something that needs immediate action and he can pressure the government into acting on (windfall tax) he’s got to keep his cards close to the chest for now.

Samo wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Further good news for the next Tory leader then, no danger of a strong opposition for the next couple of years and at the next GE.

By that, do you mean they won't have a posturing fool opposite them at PMQs etc? Personally, I'd rather a rational, fact-based individual in a leading role within our politics and I don't give a stuff if some think he's 'dull' or some other nonsense accusation.

I mean that Starmer has no ideas, no vision, no charisma and this is why the general public's reception of Labour under Starmer can be best described as 'lukewarm'. He is essentially Ed Miliband all over again. If Starmer had been dislodged as leader then Labour may have been able to find a new leader with those qualities. In an ideal world of course charisma/image etc. wouldn't matter, but it does in our democracy.

I'm not so sure that Starmer can be described as 'fact-based'. He lies like any usual politician, though certainly not as much as Johnson.

He’s hardly going to be throwing out manifesto pledges a year or two away from a GE. Unless its something that needs immediate action and he can pressure the government into acting on (windfall tax) he’s got to keep his cards close to the chest for now.

Well he should be, most opposition leaders announce what they're going to do 2-3 years away from a GE.

Sunak's out of the gate now with his leadership bid. He bizarrely claims he wants to 'rebuild the economy' when he has been the chancellor for most of the last two and a half years. Sunak may do decently with Tory MPs, but he won't do well if he makes it to the final two and a members vote (if there is one, of course).

Sunak is also immensely unpopular with the wider electorate, despite a temporary boost after resigning, and would probably be seen as a Johnson continuation.

Navy can breathe a sigh of relief as Steve Baker pulls out of the race to endorse Braverman.

Badenoch announces her candidature taking us to five confirmed runners so far. If I were a Tory member she'd probably have my vote.

As incredible as “Steve Baker endorses Suella Braverman” is its still not able to crack the top 10 funniest things to happen in the Tory party this week.

I don't know much about Badenoch, but given the set of bumholes on social media who have come out in support of her (Guido, Laurence Fox, Toby Young etc), I assume she's an absolute Muppet.

Explains why you'd give her your vote though Duty!

Ben Wallace drops out as support grows for Sunak from Tory MPs. Sunak would be the absolute worst choice for the Tories:

1) Will be seen as Johnson part 2 = low regard in the public eye and no chance for Tory renewal.
2) Is hugely unpopular with the electorate and is well known. His current net approval is -17, and that's only because of a temporary boost - he'll soon be down in the -20s and maybe even -30s. That puts him lower than Starmer (-13).
3) Is already weighed down and tainted by the scandal and lies of the Johnson administration.

All of those factors will make it difficult for the Tories to win a GE with Sunak at the helm.

Better a known with experience with examples of getting things done competently than an unknown who might end up being incompetent and some sort of evangelist sending Britain into oblivion.  In general what I read and see in the media I take with a large pinch of salt and most people formulate their opinions based on what they are fed by the media - because that is where the majority get their "information".

Sunak has to be the early favourite if only because he gets to look like a PM by running from Downing Street.
Badenoch is presumably hoping enough Tories just like the idea of Sir Keir having to campaign against the UK's first black PM (also a woman).

My preference so far would be Javid, followed by 'anyone but Truss'.

Biggest problem the Tories face is that the majority of “decent” MP’s they had saw threw Johnsons cowpat and told him to Frak off, so were purged from the party, leaving very few remaining to steady the ship.

They need to have a long think about the future of the party. Do they try and go back to a moderate right of centre outfit? Or do they keep going down the far-right populist UKIP road they currently are on?

Out of all the Tories who have a chance and I had to pick one on pain of death I’d probably pick Tugendhat or Mordaunt. Neither are inspired choices but they’re mostly clean of the Johnson poison. The rest are either more unfit than Johnson was or tainted by his legacy.

Far right populist. Christ people are clueless, Johnson was more centrist than Cameron.

Soul Requiem wrote:Far right populist. Christ people are clueless, Johnson was more centrist than Cameron.

Imagine unironically believing that.

In modern parlance what does "far right" mean?

Nine candidates standing at the moment - Sunak, Truss, Braverman, Zahawi, Hunt, Badenoch, Tugendhat, Javid, Shapps. Berry dropped out. He may never have been in. Mordaunt hasn't yet confirmed.

It's a very crowded space and we should expect to see further drop outs and deals done. Hunt, Javid and Shapps will probably drop out at some point to endorse Sunak in exchange for some cabinet position.

Braverman and Badenoch are occupying the same space (moving the Tories away from the centre to a more Thatcherite right) and one will likely drop out to endorse the other. They're offering the biggest change.

Truss is currently the main challenger to Sunak. I'm not sure about Zahawi, he has both the potential to go all the way and the potential to drop out in a couple of days.

Duty281 wrote:.... Sunak would be the absolute worst choice for the Tories

So if it were a choice between Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss you would choose Liz Truss? Maybe Liz Truss would be more popular but sometimes the popular choice could still end up being a disaster for Britain.

No name Bertie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:.... Sunak would be the absolute worst choice for the Tories

So if it were a choice between Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss you would choose Liz Truss?  Maybe Liz Truss would be more popular but sometimes the popular choice could still end up being a disaster for Britain.

Yes, absolutely, if I were a Tory. Sunak is tainted by the exact same scandal(s) that befell Johnson, he's also got a fixed-penalty notice. To stand the best chance of winning the next GE the Tories need to break away from a continuity candidate like Sunak.

I also see nothing about Sunak that suggests he's anywhere capable of doing a good job as PM.

Okay fine, but it seems to me that Liz Truss has been one of the most vociferous politicians in sending Britain into a direct economic and military conflict with Russia over the Eastern Ukraine issue.  There is also an urge to send Britain into conflict with China with various "warnings" being issued recently and for NATO to expand into the pacific region to tackle "wayward" states like China.

That may be true. The most hawkish candidate I've seen is Shapps, who's pledging to raise defence spending, says that the UK should act as Europe's 'good cop', and that we must take 'more action' to deter Moscow.

Up to ten candidates now with Mordaunt confirming she's in. She's currently got the second most MPs backing her, narrowly behind Sunak, with Truss in 3rd, Hunt in 4th and Badenoch in 5th. Patel may yet be the 11th candidate.

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Further good news for the next Tory leader then, no danger of a strong opposition for the next couple of years and at the next GE.

By that, do you mean they won't have a posturing fool opposite them at PMQs etc? Personally, I'd rather a rational, fact-based individual in a leading role within our politics and I don't give a stuff if some think he's 'dull' or some other nonsense accusation.

I mean that Starmer has no ideas, no vision, no charisma and this is why the general public's reception of Labour under Starmer can be best described as 'lukewarm'. He is essentially Ed Miliband all over again. If Starmer had been dislodged as leader then Labour may have been able to find a new leader with those qualities. In an ideal world of course charisma/image etc. wouldn't matter, but it does in our democracy.

I'm not so sure that Starmer can be described as 'fact-based'. He lies like any usual politician, though certainly not as much as Johnson.

I think a leader who is boring but pragmatic, respectable and talented is exactly what we need right now.