Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

Should we be there?

Well if you dont mind whats happening now and support sharia law then I guess not.

[beninho]

She's phenomenal, actually they both were. It wasn't as easy as the score looked. The power hitting was supreme.

A note for Naviratilova who was a brilliant summariser.

[Soul Requiem]

Martina comes across as someone who just loves watching tennis, her excitement on the big points is infectious. I'm actually in shock despite thinking she'd win, $2.5mil isn't bad at 18.

[beninho]

I cant think of anything like it in Brittish sport.

[beninho]

If I got 2.5m at 18, I probably wouldn't see 19.

[Soul Requiem]

I barely saw 19 without that money, can't think of an equivalent achievement in any sport. In a golfing sense the closest would be Todd Hamilton and even that doesn't come close.

[super_realist]

Ben, if someone flies into the UK without the proper authority, visa, passport etc they are returned to their point of origin.
Why do you object to doing this at sea?

You are only deemed an asylum seeker if your claim for asylum is assessed and approved, not just because they say they are asylum seekers. Sadly it seems the UK border force arent sufficiently skeptical about these claims and the overwhelming majority of these claims are approved without the need for any oresentation of papers or evidence and these economic migrants know this. If this wasnt the case, why on earth wohldnt you just stay in Germany, Austria, France, Belgium etc, and please dont suggest because they "support an English football team" again.

If you had the choice of any country in Europe, wjy oj earth woyld you choose Britain unless it was because we are such a soft touch

You are an asylum seeker if you claim asylum until the decision is made obe way or the other.  Once approved you are not an asylum seeker you are just someone with status in the uk.

There's many reasons why people want to cone to the UK. I doubt its the £36pw they get or the benefits available if successful,, which are lower then most other countries.

I get you don't like asylum seekers though.

Ha ha ha. I have akready said im in favour of genuine asylum seekers, not economic migrants.
If the majority of these people are genuine, why are they mostly young men? Arent women and children affected by this?

Also, im really sure theyre giving some housing lackie details of the application sufficient for you to make a decision as to whether they are genuine. If it gets to the point when they are given housing and their details make it down to someone as lowly as you theyve already been granted leave so why would you see any application?

[beninho]

If soneone is granted status in the uk, and are homeless, they can contact the local authority. Being homeless doesn't automatically mean you are provided with temporary housing or any housing for that matter, whether you come straight from asylum seeker accommodation or not.

To be provided with temporary housing, you need to be deemed as vulnerable. Families with dependent children are vulnerable, and single people are assessed for vulnerability. Again, not automatic for asylum seekers.

But, I've seen plenty of cases, where they provide all the documents that they used to show why they are vulnerable, victims of torture, slavery etc. Reasons why they received asylum and reasons why they are deemed as vulnerable.

But, its not all cases that are deemed as vulnerable and not everyone who receives status are provided with temporary accommodation. Even if they are genuine asylum seekers.

[beninho]

I'm sure you didn't think people just rocked up and were given housing, without having to provide any documents?

[dynamark]

To be fair people are not just left on a park bench even if they are not given'housing'.
Took my covid cert to the footy yesterday but they werent checking many due to the delays it caused .This morning it appears they will not be required.Leicester v Man City was one of the very best games I have ever seen MOTD did not do it justice .Could have easily been 4-4

[beninho]

Maybe not lark benches, but 2019/20 had recorded over 10k rough sleepers in London. Everyone in, has brought that down at the start if the pandemic, but that's been phased out. Heathrow, which is in my Borough, is one if the biggest spots in the country.

[super_realist]

I'm sure you didn't think people just rocked up and were given housing, without having to provide any documents?

Their lovely human traffickers implore them to throw away their documentation.
My point about the UK being a soft touch was not that Britain is a great place to live, or that they are given good benefits but that 100% of people who have needlessly sailed across the channel have not been turned back or ever returned.

Funmy how the loony left paint the UK as a racist, intolerant society who is averse to immigration but so many immigrants are taking their lives in their hands to get here.  France must be a really bad place to live if youd rather live in a racist intolerant hell hole like the UK

[beninho]

,Britain can't be racist as black people want to live here?

[super_realist]

,Britain can't be racist as black people want to live here?

No, i said of its as bad as people from the left claim it to be, why are people leaving a perfectly safe country in Europe such as France or the Netherlands, by dangerous means and at great expense to get here.
Surely if Britain was as bad as they claim it to be, illegal migrants and pboney asylum seekers would simply stay put in the safe countries they are already in.

Britain isnt racist just because there are racist people here. There are racists in Germany, France etc too, but you wouldnt say they were racist countries. So why is Britain racist?

[beninho]

I'm not sure if Britain is a racists country, probably just a country with racists, like many in the world.

I'm unsure what the "left" say about the country being bad country, Its not something I've heard. In fact I've seen your issues with the country spouted on a semi regular basis, and I'd hardly say you were the "left"

[super_realist]

I'm not sure if Britain is a racists country, probably just a country with racists, like many in the world.

I'm unsure what the "left" say about the country being bad country, Its not something I've heard. In fact I've seen your issues with the country spouted on a semi regular basis, and I'd hardly say you were the "left"

Ha ha, the left especially are constantly telling us that Britain is institutionally racist, despite independent reports showing us it is not.
We are told covid is racist, the countryside is racist, sheet music is racist etc.

Clearly, due to the numbers of immigrants we get we are not, or ceetainly no more racist than other Northern European countries, and are certainly more diverse than all of them.

[beninho]

We may or may not be more racist then other countries, I have no idea. But we have plenty of racists here.

But, I don't get the link between asylum seekers whether a country is racist. Germany, Italy, Spain Greece , France get more, does that mean they are less racist?

Hungary took some Asylum seekers and I would definitely put them close to being a racist country.

[dynamark]

Bit lighter subject film out shortly Phantom of the open a sort of Eddie the eagle look at Maurice Flitcroft and his attempts to play in the open golf .If you havent heard of him goolge it is a great and hilarious story

[Davie]

Bit lighter subject film out shortly Phantom of the open a sort of Eddie the eagle look  at  Maurice Flitcroft and his attempts to play in the open golf .If you havent heard of him goolge it is a great and hilarious story

I was born and grew up in the town where Maurice Flitcroft lived and (formerly) worked as a crane driver in the shipyard. Used to be able to see him for hours chopping a golf ball around our school playing fields. I must have spent hours watching him trying to play when I should have been paying attention to the lessons being taught!

[super_realist]

Bit lighter subject film out shortly Phantom of the open a sort of Eddie the eagle look  at  Maurice Flitcroft and his attempts to play in the open golf .If you havent heard of him goolge it is a great and hilarious story

I was born and grew up in the town where Maurice Flitcroft lived and (formerly) worked as a crane driver in the shipyard. Used to be able to see him for hours chopping a golf ball around our school playing fields. I must have spent hours watching him trying to play when I should have been paying attention to the lessons being taught!

You were probably still a a better player

[super_realist]

We may or may not be more racist then other countries, I have no idea. But we have plenty of racists here.

But, I don't get the link between asylum seekers whether a country is racist. Germany, Italy, Spain  Greece , France get more, does that mean they are less racist?

Hungary took some Asylum seekers and I would definitely put them close to being a racist country.

The point is that if a country were instituationally racist and therefore not a pleasant place for a migrant to come, why are so many desperate to come here and not just that but abandoning perfectly safe countries and risking their life to get here, whilst paying fortune for transport. Not a rational move if we are such an intolerant country is it?

If a country were openly hostile to you, would you sail across the busiest shipping lane in the world to get there? This isbtje sort of idiotic rhetoric that morons like Emma Kennedy would jave you believe

[beninho]

Just to clarify, you have raised issues with the people coming to the country, and have raiser views that they aren't honest and truthful when it comes to the claims of asylum. As have many many people including the government who want to send them back in the sea.

Then, is your argument that we are open and tolerant which is why they want to come here?

Also, maybe they have no idea if England is intolerant and just want to join family or friends?

[pedro]

Ok mac and ben won’t like this but: Britain, and the West in general, are the least racist places in the world. Not to say that there’s no racism here, but compared to where migrants come from chances are there’s much less.

[beninho]

The UK isn't remotely an overtly racist country. Its just a country with racists in it. I'd say America is more racist then here. And some other countries are horrendous.

[super_realist]

Just to clarify, you have raised issues with the people coming to the country, and have raiser views that they aren't honest and truthful when it comes to the claims of asylum. As have many many people including the government who want to send them back in the sea.

Then, is your argument that we are open and tolerant which is why they want to come here?

Also, maybe they have no idea if England is intolerant and just want to join family or friends?

Its a completely absurd assertion to even suggest that 100% of people coming to this country by illegal means are genuine asylum seekers.
The reason people are coming to this country is tjst they knkw that 100% of people crossing into this country have been allowed to stay.
Were they 100% genuine, they would arrive with identification to demonstrate they come from a country which one would require asylum from AND there would be a more even mix of ages and gender rather than mostly being men of working age.

Wanting to join "family and friends" isnt a justifiable reason to claim asylum any more than your laughable claim of the past that it might be to do with what football team they support.

The government dont want to return them to sea, they want to return illegitimate and illegal immigrants withoutba genuine claim for asylum to their point of origin, just as they would be legally bound to if they flew across without documentation.

If you sailed to America or Australia without the proper rights and documebtation yoy wouldnt be allowed to stay, why would you expect or want it to be different here?

[beninho]

The government can return people if they believe they don't meet the criteria for asylum.

Don't think I have any reason to claim asylum in Australia or America. But, if I did I could and they woukd have to process it under the laws.

[dynamark]

Sounds like Davie should be in the film.I just love the ingenuity of the man and his different names.The story of the convicts who were sent to Oz is interesting in that a lot were granted land after completing their sentences and did very well to establish communities.We have to have rules and without being the slightest bit racist and sympathetic to an extent we cannot take everyone who wants to come.

[super_realist]

The government can return people if they believe they don't meet the criteria for asylum.

Don't think I have any reason to claim asylum in Australia or America.  But, if I did  I could  and they woukd have to process it under the laws.

Yes, potentially that is the case but the UK system isnt set up to be efficient and so it takes over two years to process a claim, whilst immigrants claim that army camps previously good eblugh for our arked forces, arent good ebough for them, things cant be that bad then eh?
The system needs reform in the way that migrants can just disappear into the country. Two years needs to be two weeks. Goodness knows how many ne'er do wells are now here, we already have enough native ones

[super_realist]

The government can return people if they believe they don't meet the criteria for asylum.

Don't think I have any reason to claim asylum in Australia or America.  But, if I did  I could  and they woukd have to process it under the laws.

No they wouldn't. If they can't establish youre a genuine asylum seeker, then you dont have right to remain. Just claiming asylum, doesnt mean its granted, unless you cpme to the UK it seems, and that explains why theyre sailing across here.

[super_realist]

The government can return people if they believe they don't meet the criteria for asylum.

Don't think I have any reason to claim asylum in Australia or America.  But, if I did  I could  and they woukd have to process it under the laws.

No they wouldn't. If they can't establish youre a genuine asylum seeker, then you dont have right to remain. Just claiming asylum, doesnt mean its granted, unless you come to the UK it seems due to the shonky immigration system and hapless border control, and that explains why theyre sailing across here in record numbers. Like i said, a seriously soft touch despite being a crappy country, because they know their claims are bogus and that France, Germany etc arent buying it.

[beninho]

Obviously if the country doesn't accept you are a genuine asylum seeker you don't get leave to remain. And are then liable for deportation. I think everyone knows that claims asylum isn't getting asylum.

I cant say that I'm an expert on Australian or American asylum systems, but would trust they treat an application as it should lawfully be treated and investigated. I'd be surprised if they just said no, that sounds like it would breach numerous regulations.

Are you talking about the barracks that publi c health said was unsuitable, and that a court found to be unlawful and irrational? Seems that no one can defend that decision. Unless you think victims of torture, such as the ones who won the case, don't deserve basic rights. Which is a pretty strong take.

[super_realist]

Australia and America deal with claims efficiently. Australia for example turn them around in a fortnight and dont allow boats to dock.
We shouldn't be putting one in anything salubrious at all, and any immigrant has a cheek if they claim that an army barracks isnt good enough for them. F**K off back to France then. If youve paid £20k to a traffiker, pay your own accomodation.

[beninho]

Australia have had people in camps for years, not sure if it's 2 weeks.

But, im not fussed if it takes 2 weeks, 4 months or 4 years, as long as its done lawfully and fairly.

[super_realist]

Well I dont object either, but the British system is set up so they can disappear and as not a single one has been sent away that is an indocation that the system is not sufficiently robust.

Britain is far better for managed immigration, i just cant see the wisdom in a system where anyone who claims to be seeking asylum, regardless of whether they are and enters the country by boat is permitted to stay. It is naive in the extreme to suggest they can all be genuine and it would be ridiculous to claim the UK system works or doesnt need serious reform.

You seem content for any Tom, Dick or Abdul to just claim they are here for asylum, and you dont seem concerned as to whether they genuinely are or not.

[beninho]

All this and you still haven't grasped my views, or you are just guessing.

I dont mind anyone claiming asylum. I don't mind if the home office, after a full review of the application make a decision that they do not warrant asylum status. I do mind if the decision is not legally sound and can be overturned. I don't mind if it is legally sound and cannot be challenged in court.

I dont mind if someone who has been denied asylum lawfully is deported.

I do t think any of that is extreme. In fact it's very similar to my job. We make decisions that can be challenged in court and have to ensure everything is followed lawfully.

[McLaren]

Ben

Don't bother trying to argue with super about the mechanics of the asylum system. He doesn't want certain types of people in the country, it is as simple as that.

[super_realist]

Ben

Don't bother trying to argue with super about the mechanics of the asylum system. He doesn't want certain types of people in the country, it is as simple as that.

Mac, as ive saod many times before i am absolutely fine with managed immigration, i dont know why anyone wouldn't be. I'm not in favour of a free for all, illegal immigration or economic migrants posing as asylum seekers.
Why would you be?

[super_realist]

All this and you still haven't grasped my views, or you are just guessing.

I dont mind anyone claiming asylum. I don't mind if the home office, after a full review of the application make a decision that they do not warrant asylum status. I do mind if the decision is not legally sound and can be overturned. I don't mind if it is legally sound and cannot be challenged in court.

I dont mind if someone who has been denied asylum lawfully is deported.

I do t think any of that is extreme. In fact it's very similar to my job. We make decisions that can be challenged in court and have to ensure everything is followed lawfully.

The point is Ben is that not a solitary person who has sailed across the channel has been sent back. Given that it would be preposterous to think that all of these individuals are genuinely asylum seekers it sends the message to all economic migrants that all you need to do is pretend they're asylum seekers and Bob's your uncle, you're here to stay.
Clearly the system is faulty and not fit for purpose and only seems to encourage such crossings.

[JAS]

All this and you still haven't grasped my views, or you are just guessing.

I dont mind anyone claiming asylum. I don't mind if the home office, after a full review of the application make a decision that they do not warrant asylum status. I do mind if the decision is not legally sound and can be overturned. I don't mind if it is legally sound and cannot be challenged in court.

I dont mind if someone who has been denied asylum lawfully is deported.

I do t think any of that is extreme. In fact it's very similar to my job. We make decisions that can be challenged in court and have to ensure everything is followed lawfully.

The point is Ben is that not a solitary person who has sailed across the channel has been sent back. Given that  it would be preposterous to think that all of these individuals are genuinely asylum seekers it sends the message to all economic migrants that all you need to do is pretend they're asylum seekers and Bob's your uncle, you're here to stay.
Clearly the system is faulty and not fit for purpose and only seems to encourage such crossings.

Maybe going off at a bit of a tangent here but thinking specifically about “it sends the message…etc etc” what amazes me is that there are masses on the French Coast, barely 2 beans to rub together…..yet they all have iPhones & Samsung’s to communicate with each other with….how?? Is there somewhere along their journey from oblivion where they can pick up phones either free or for a fraction of the price we pay?

[beninho]

I see and deal with undocumented migrants, with no status, and not in detention centres. They have no recourse to public funds, but are just left out and about, to sleep rough.

The system is a shambles, but because the government can't run the home office properly shouldn't mean that genuine cases are impacted.

Take the application do it properly and make a decision. But, I don't think its only an issue here. After the mention of Australia and America yesterday, I checked and they both have loads in detention centres, costing fortunes. I would assume its difficult other places aswell.

[pedro]

Mac, which types that super doesn’t want is it that you want?

[dynamark]

Going back to Maurice for a sec one of his aliases was Arnold Palmtree !!!! apparently.

[super_realist]

I see and deal with undocumented migrants, with no status, and not in detention centres. They have no recourse to public funds, but are just left out and about, to sleep rough.

The system is a shambles, but because the government can't run the home office properly shouldn't mean that genuine cases are impacted.

Take the application do it properly and make a decision. But, I don't think its only an issue here. After the mention of Australia and America yesterday, I checked and they both have loads in detention centres, costing fortunes.  I would assume its difficult other places aswell.

The UK should have immigration assessment centres in the European countries that these economic migrants are coming from. If you pass you can get a flight, ferry or train to the UK, if you can't then stay in the perfectly safe and secure European countries you currently reside in.

[super_realist]

Heard some interesting stats about the NHS yesterday. Apparently 48% of the budget goes on non medical expenditure and 40,000 non clinical staff earn over £100,000 a year.

I really wish people would stop treating it as a national religion which cant be criticised when it is blatantly mismanaged and wasteful.
£200bn a year for a system which is worse than virtually every major European equivalent. Makes the BBC look like value for money

[Soul Requiem]

Isn't the NHS regularly rated in the top ten healthcare systems in the world?

I'm not denying it's mismanaged but there is a degree of assuming everywhere else is better.

[super_realist]

Isn't the NHS regularly rated in the top ten healthcare systems in the world?

I'm not denying it's mismanaged but there is a degree of assuming everywhere else is better.

Im not saying everywhere else is better but theres a lot of places that have shorter waiting times, better diagnosis and recovery, cancer survival, more beds per head of population etc.

If the NHS was such a great system, why has no other country implemented it?

[beninho]

40,000 is what, 3% of the workforce of 1.3m.

[McLaren]

Mac, which types that super doesn’t want is it that you want?

All of them.

[beninho]

I'm not keen on many ministers, obviously. So if Johnson is having a reshuffle I'd like to see Raab moved, Williamson moved. Those seem likely. Patel will stay, I guess, as will Havid and Sunak.

[JAS]

Heard some interesting stats about the NHS yesterday. Apparently 48% of the budget goes on non medical expenditure and 40,000 non clinical staff earn over £100,000 a year.

I really wish people would stop treating it as a national religion which cant be criticised when it is blatantly mismanaged and wasteful.
£200bn a year for a system which is worse than virtually every major European equivalent. Makes the BBC look like value for money

Doesn’t surprise me, I’ve seen similar on a much smaller scale in a smaller govt dept where the amount of public cash draining into multinational consultancies is eye-watering. You can’t really blame the multinationals (well you can if you want) but to engage them in the first place is a failure of management.

I don’t think people treat it as a religion I think people just want it to work and be there for them when they need it. As the worlds 5/6th wealthiest economy you’d not be unreasonable to expect a health service broadly commensurate with that position.

[JAS]

Isn't the NHS regularly rated in the top ten healthcare systems in the world?

I'm not denying it's mismanaged but there is a degree of assuming everywhere else is better.

Depends how/what you measure, waiting times? Outcomes? Lifesaves? Cost per life saved? Throughput per capita? Range of services available? Ability to flex to changing requirements?

If the NHS is comparatively good at any of those things just measure it regularly and voila!! We have one of the best healthcare systems in the world (from somebody’s statistical viewpoint).

Gut feel (and it is only from personal experience) there is huge potential for the NHS to be what most would reasonably expect it to be, there are bureaucratic irritations that hold it back somewhat. It could do better if it was managed better and that is no sleight on those on the frontline who do an admirable job.

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