England: Autumn Internationals

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England squad for autumn Tests:

Forwards: Jamie Blamire (Newcastle), Callum Chick (Newcastle), Jamie George (Saracens), Tom Curry (Sale), Trevor Davison (Newcastle), Nic Dolly (Leicester), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Ellis Genge (Leicester), Jonny Hill (Exeter), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Lewis Ludlam (Northampton), Joe Marler (Harlequins), George Martin (Leicester), Sam Simmonds (Exeter), Kyle Sinckler (Bristol), Will Stuart (Bath), Sam Underhill (Bath)

Backs: Mark Atkinson (Gloucester), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Tommy Freeman (Northampton), George Furbank (Northampton), Max Malins (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester), Raffi Quirke (Sale), Adam Radwan (Newcastle), Harry Randall (Bristol), Henry Slade (Exeter), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Freddie Steward (Leicester), Manu Tuilagi (Sale), Joe Marchant (Quins), Ben Youngs (Leicester)

In Positions:
1.Marler, Genge
2.George, Blamire, Dolly
3.Sinckler, Stuart, Davison
4.Itoje, Hill
5.Lawes, Ewels
6.Curry, Martin
7.Underhill, Ludlam
8.Dombrandt, Simmonds, Chick

9.Youngs, Randall, Quirke
10.Smith

11.May, Radwan
12.Farrell, Atkinson
13.Tuilagi, Slade
14.Freeman, Marchant
15.Steward, Malins, Furbank
-------------------------------------------------
England v Tonga - 6th November
England v Australia - 13th November
England v South Africa - 20th November

I'm guessing Autstraya put the squeeze Lynagh....

Interesting. Any reason given for the 2 call ups?

None that I saw 7.5

Oh didn't see Randall has dropped out injured.

Yes just seen that ...Randall has withdrawn

So Quirke must have a very good chance of a cap now. Still not sure about Lynagh

lostinwales wrote:So Quirke must have a very good chance of a cap now. Still not sure about Lynagh

Quirke should be starting the Tonga match for sure.

That's a shame for Randall. he does seem to pick up injuries on a regular basis. I had hoped to see both Randall and Quirke for the Tonga game.

That Times article is pretty shocking really. It sounds like Jones' style can only last so long and perhaps we're now seeing it come to its natural end.

Certainly feels like the negativity is on the increase and more people are speaking out. Perhaps a change of coach is needed, as Jones seems keen to point out change gets the best out of people and perhaps the final change needed in the run up to the RWC is for Jones to be moved on, certainly new coaches can bring a honeymoon effect and if that's times right it could coincide with the RWC.

It's an unfortunate time for Randall to be injured as Quirke will simply nail his chance. He'll be first choice by the 6 nations and then have vP coming into the squad as well.

Will be good to see what Mitchell can do. I'd have had him as starting scrum half previous to this series but thought Jones had decided against him. Been in good form.

I am sure that Randall has plenty of time on his side to work his way back into the squad, even if Quirke has a stormer. Mitchell has been in and around the squads for a while too, so may well get a bench spot.

As others have said, Lynagh I am not sure about - Watson was injured and then Marchant was called up as cover. So not sure who else has dropped out for Louis to get the call.

I think he is a great wing, physical in the carry, and looks hungry for the ball with an excellent step and I thought he might have been in the initial squad anyway, so am pleased for him - but don't want him to be there just because Australia are sniffing around.

yappysnap wrote:That Times article is pretty shocking really. It sounds like Jones' style can only last so long and perhaps we're now seeing it come to its natural end.

Certainly feels like the negativity is on the increase and more people are speaking out. Perhaps a change of coach is needed, as Jones seems keen to point out change gets the best out of people and perhaps the final change needed in the run up to the RWC is for Jones to be moved on, certainly new coaches can bring a honeymoon effect and if that's times right it could coincide with the RWC.

Yeah, hard to gauge sometimes without being in the environment. Theres some quotes in the Guardian :'Eddie Jones has defended his coaching methods and high turnover rate of backroom staff in response to criticism of his England regime.

A newspaper report published last week used anonymous accounts from players and former employees to paint a picture of a tense and demanding environment lacking in enjoyment. Jones has just finished rebuilding his coaching team for the third time with John Mitchell, his No 2, the most recent departure after the former All Blacks head coach departed for Wasps rather than continue overseeing the defence.

Tom Curry at England’s training camp in Jersey
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Mitchell’s exit is the latest example of the staff churn that has been persistent since Jones took over at the end of 2015, with assistant coaches, physios, doctors, analysts and psychologists leaving at a high rate. And while England had their worst Six Nations performance earlier this year when finishing fifth, their head coach remains defiant over his management style.

“These things happen. Everyone has an opinion on how you operate. I can’t say it’s right or wrong, I try to be a reasonable person,” Jones told BT Sport. “I’ve coached for a fair period of time and there have probably been times when I haven’t been as nice as I’d like to be. But I endeavour to be fair all the time and I’m excited where this team is going to go.

“The only thing you can do is respond and the only way we’ll respond is by playing good rugby so that’s what we intend to do.”

“Brutal” was one of the words used to describe the way Jones treats his staff, but the 61-year-old said: “I think the fact that I’ve been coaching for this period of time would indicate that that’s not the truth. Has it been a high turnover of staff? There’s been turnover in certain areas where we’ve looked to refresh the staff.

“This is my sixth year in the job and you’d expect that from your support staff. I think we’ve got a very good staff here and we appreciate their hard work.”


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Jones bristled when asked if he considered himself to be ‘old-school’. “No I wouldn’t. At all. And I don’t even know what that means. Some of the best old-school coaching is the best coaching,” he said'


To me he comes across very like Alex Ferguson, and yes that is a bit old school. I can very much see him being fire and brimstone at times and that leading to noses out of joint or some people being rightly upset. I'd be very surprised should he take that approach to everyone though. Strikes me that he judges pretty well when to put an arm around a shoulder or when to release a rocket. Reading the thing about Mitchell wanting to go and watch his son though struck me as Jones being completely in the wrong.

propdavid_london wrote:I am sure that Randall has plenty of time on his side to work his way back into the squad, even if Quirke has a stormer.  Mitchell has been in and around the squads for a while too, so may well get a bench spot.  

As others have said, Lynagh I am not sure about - Watson was injured and then Marchant was called up as cover.  So not sure who else has dropped out for Louis to get the call.  

I think he is a great wing, physical in the carry, and looks hungry for the ball with an excellent step and I thought he might have been in the initial squad anyway, so am pleased for him - but don't want him to be there just because Australia are sniffing around.

Think I may be the only England fan who does want to see us tie players up asap! Just feel at this time re scrum half Jones must be tempted to move onto the next wave of youngsters coming through. A set of good performances can put you foot in the door, time is still on Randall's side at 23 but with Mitchell the oldest at 24 it's not like a lot of opportunities may present themselves.

Sharkey06 wrote:On a rant here, but I would be interested to hear from anyone who wishes to defend Eddie's decision to pick Jamie Blamire and Nic Dolly in his England squad off the back of a couple of substitute appearances for their clubs ahead of more seasoned players like Jamie George, Jack singleton, Jack Walker, Gabriel Oghre, Tom Dunne, etc (yes I know Jamie George has now been called up due to injury to Luke Cowan-Dickie).

Personally I see it as a selection based on BT Sport highlights which is a real slap in the face for players who have done it for a season or more at club level.  i appreciate as has been said above Eddie puts little store in club form, as he clearly knows more than the rest of us.

Hey Sharkey, genuine question.....have you actually seen much of Blamire play?

He's got 50+ appearances in the prem for starters at the relatively young age of 23. Out of those you've listed, he's ahead of by quite a distance except George. I suspect George wasn't in initially as it's clear we know what he brings and he maybe needed a break or a bit of kick up the butt?

Blamire is quite unique as he's a big, strong lad and offers potentially something else to the other hookers in England...he can physically dominate. I see his style a bit like Marx of SA as an example.

Dolly I suspect is in due to his quite abrasive carry style and Eddie is taking a look at him. The only other hooker I can think that might be in with a shout is Barbury as Wasps who needs a clear run injury free....and to nail a position.

John Mitchell left the Emirate Lions under a cloud of being too strict and not being the best man manager. I would have thought if Jones is in the same mold as Mitchell the two would get on like a house on fire.

I find the inclusion of Furbank and Simmonds quite baffling tbh. Both have been looked at.....both have failed to deliver and then discarded.

I'm still quite surprised with Davison too....who is becoming a very strong scrumming prop, but doesn't bring anything out of the box really.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Sharkey06 wrote:On a rant here, but I would be interested to hear from anyone who wishes to defend Eddie's decision to pick Jamie Blamire and Nic Dolly in his England squad off the back of a couple of substitute appearances for their clubs ahead of more seasoned players like Jamie George, Jack singleton, Jack Walker, Gabriel Oghre, Tom Dunne, etc (yes I know Jamie George has now been called up due to injury to Luke Cowan-Dickie).

Personally I see it as a selection based on BT Sport highlights which is a real slap in the face for players who have done it for a season or more at club level.  i appreciate as has been said above Eddie puts little store in club form, as he clearly knows more than the rest of us.

The only other hooker I can think that might be in with a shout is Barbury as Wasps who needs a clear run injury free....and to nail a position.

Im not sure what will happen with Barbeary. Its looking more and more like back row...if he can stay off the physio table.

I like Frost the Wasps hooker who signed from Pirates i believe. He's an all action hooker...does the hooker job stuff and is great in the loose. One to watch there aswelll....

Picking Dolly also sends out a message that coming from nowhere and showing a run of great form can get you in the squad.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Sharkey06 wrote:On a rant here, but I would be interested to hear from anyone who wishes to defend Eddie's decision to pick Jamie Blamire and Nic Dolly in his England squad off the back of a couple of substitute appearances for their clubs ahead of more seasoned players like Jamie George, Jack singleton, Jack Walker, Gabriel Oghre, Tom Dunne, etc (yes I know Jamie George has now been called up due to injury to Luke Cowan-Dickie).

Personally I see it as a selection based on BT Sport highlights which is a real slap in the face for players who have done it for a season or more at club level.  i appreciate as has been said above Eddie puts little store in club form, as he clearly knows more than the rest of us.

The only other hooker I can think that might be in with a shout is Barbury as Wasps who needs a clear run injury free....and to nail a position.

Im not sure what will happen with Barbeary. Its looking more and more like back row...if he can stay off the physio table.

I like Frost the Wasps hooker who signed from Pirates i believe. He's an all action hooker...does the hooker job stuff and is great in the loose. One to watch there aswelll....

I like Sam Riley at Quins he looks like he could be a really good ball carrying hooker. Post the next world cup though, he's a bit too green currently.

I do wonder how high up the pecking order Dolly and Lynagh are and whether Eddie sees potential with them and wants to keep then out of the hands of Australia.

Eddie's got plenty of history of selecting promising young players - presumably when they are still at their most coachable - having a good look at them in camp, giving them detailed instructions on what they've got to work on, and then leaving them out until he deems them ready.

This close to an RWC - especially when he is leaving after it - these players may be closer to being selected than they would normally be, but the drill is the same.

Good to see that the RFU are giving a '6 figure sum' so probably about 100 grand to Tonga this weekend. Small step but I really do believe away sides should be getting a good flat rate for games. If we win all 3 games the England players will be getting 70 grand each, and if there are 3 losses just less than pre pandemic levels (Guardian).

£70,000 not bad for winning 3 games....

Think it's still split across the squad as well rather than the starters. I'd quite like a place in the stands enjoying the games!

Well that sucks. No Quirke, Lynagh or Malins this week due to pre existing injuries. Guess that means Youngs starts and probably Radwan and Steward. And it looks like Smith is carrying an injury.

Have their injuries just been announced? Thats a big shame. Especially Quirke. Hes the one i really wanted to see start v Tonga.

Where has this been announced 7.5?

Would be disappointing if its true. Randall also being injured means that Alex Mitchell will be guaranteed a spot.

Lynagh has just come through a pretty physical game so not surprised there.

I wonder who else will be dropped out - I assume that the squad will be reduced either later today or tomorrow.

Just seen it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59134825

Sorry should have said, from the RFU site. They haven't mentioned the Steward doubt though.

The year is 2035....

England go in to the world cup with experienced half back pairing...

9 Ben Youngs
10 Owen Farrell

It is disappointing, although could be a lot of smoke and mirrors - beeb did say that Marcus 'may' be OK for the Tonga game.

Sounds like Lynagh, Randall, Quirke, Watson, Malins, Stewart are all definitely out then - we could still field a pretty exciting side with a good number of youngsters.

Could still see a side like this -
Genge, Balmire, Stuart
Itoje, Hill
Martin, Underhill, Dombrandt
Mitchell
Smith
May
Farrell
Tuilagi
Radwan
Furbank

Bench: Marler, Dolly, Sinks, Lawes, Simmonds, Youngs, Marchant

Could swap in Atkinson for Farrell - but I feel that Jones will want to test the Smith-Farrell axis (if Smith is fit).
If Smith is out then I expect Farrell will move to 10 and Slade comes into side.

Why isn't it Youngs who gets injured?? Grrr!!!

Said before that careers are made on injuries for or against a lot. Youngs doesn't get injured alot.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Said before that careers are made on injuries for or against a lot. Youngs doesn't get injured alot.

Danny Care didnt/doesnt either...but his absence is well documented as not being playing related.

After Leicester's match at the weekend, you could always call up Ford as cover for scrum half and Marcus Smith.

propdavid_london wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Said before that careers are made on injuries for or against a lot. Youngs doesn't get injured alot.

Danny Care didnt/doesnt either...but his absence is well documented as not being playing related.

I've always been a Care fan as he's a fun player to watch but his England career spanning 3 different coaches without ever nailing down the starting shirt was definitely for playing related reasons. For all his attacking prowess his game management and kicking was found out as a starter at international level.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I find the inclusion of Furbank and Simmonds quite baffling tbh. Both have been looked at.....both have failed to deliver and then discarded.

I'm still quite surprised with Davison too....who is becoming a very strong scrumming prop, but doesn't bring anything out of the box really.  

I'm skeptical of Simmonds against the best international defences but in his defence I thought he was decent for England then fell out of favour after injuries rather than being tried and discarded?

The pictures from whatever England were doing in the sea in Jersey (looked like some sort of team building thing with massive surfboards) really made me laugh when I spotted Davison. His rig next to some of the other players looked like some punter in Jersey for a stag do had strolled into the session and joined in.

Eddie tends not to back track once he has made his mind up at the start of a campaign.
If he has excluded Mako/Billy and Ford etc then I doubt that any of them would get a call up, with Eddie preferring to stick to the squad he has selected.

I do agree though that the way Ford is playing at the moment would certainly merit a recall if needed. As a lot have said previously it feels as if Farrell is the one that could have done with being left out - just to re-set and regain form.
But others have said that he is integral to everything that is done within the squad - and becomes quite obvious that when Faz has a bad game then so does England.

Steward and Malins both being injured pretty much guarantees Furbank a start I'd guess. Unless a punt is taken on Freeman.

I'd probably go largely full strength but for scrum-half and hooker where George and Youngs are known quantities. Otherwise I'd get some minutes into partnership before Australia and SA. I reckon we will see Lawes or Martin at 6. On balance I'd prefer Martin there with Lawes in the row.

1.Marler
2.Blamire
3.Sinckler
4.Itoje
5.Lawes
6.Martin
7.Curry
8.Dombrandt

9.Mitchell
10.Smith

11.May
12.Farrell
13.Tuilagi
14.Radwan
15.Furbank

16.Blamire
17.Genge
18.Stuart
19.Hill
20.Underhill
21.Youngs
22.Slade
23.Marchant

If Smith is unavailable I really hope that Tuilagi and Marchant get a game together in the midfield.

king_carlos wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I find the inclusion of Furbank and Simmonds quite baffling tbh. Both have been looked at.....both have failed to deliver and then discarded.

I'm still quite surprised with Davison too....who is becoming a very strong scrumming prop, but doesn't bring anything out of the box really.  

I'm skeptical of Simmonds against the best international defences but in his defence I thought he was decent for England then fell out of favour after injuries rather than being tried and discarded?

The pictures from whatever England were doing in the sea in Jersey (looked like some sort of team building thing with massive surfboards) really made me laugh when I spotted Davison. His rig next to some of the other players looked like some punter in Jersey for a stag do had strolled into the session and joined in.

Jamie George is another who doesnt quite match Max Lahiffs modern day front row physique

GeordieFalcon wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I find the inclusion of Furbank and Simmonds quite baffling tbh. Both have been looked at.....both have failed to deliver and then discarded.

I'm still quite surprised with Davison too....who is becoming a very strong scrumming prop, but doesn't bring anything out of the box really.  

I'm skeptical of Simmonds against the best international defences but in his defence I thought he was decent for England then fell out of favour after injuries rather than being tried and discarded?

The pictures from whatever England were doing in the sea in Jersey (looked like some sort of team building thing with massive surfboards) really made me laugh when I spotted Davison. His rig next to some of the other players looked like some punter in Jersey for a stag do had strolled into the session and joined in.

Jamie George is another who doesnt quite match Max Lahiffs modern day front row physique

Ah Jamie. The human ice cream cone.

I still adore Dan Cole's ability to look exhausted after jogging out the tunnel, but then still look precisely as exhausted after playing 70 odd minutes.

No Martin or Dolly
Squad Update
Eddie Jones has retained 28 players ahead of England’s Test match against Tonga this weekend.
FORWARDS CLUB
Jamie Blamire Newcastle Falcons
Tom Curry Sale Sharks
Trevor Davison Newcastle Falcons
Alex Dombrandt Harlequins
Charlie Ewels Bath Rugby
Ellis Genge Leicester Tigers
Jamie George Saracens
Jonny Hill Exeter Chiefs
Maro Itoje Saracens
Courtney Lawes Northampton Saints
Joe Marler Harlequins
Kyle Sinckler Bristol Bears
Will Stuart Bath Rugby
Sam Underhill Bath Rugby
BACKS CLUB
Mark Atkinson Gloucester Rugby
Owen Farrell Saracens
George Furbank Northampton Saints
Max Malins Saracens
Joe Marchant Harlequins
Jonny May Gloucester Rugby
Alex Mitchell Northampton Saints
Raffi Quirke Sale Sharks
Adam Radwan Newcastle Falcons
Henry Slade Exeter Chiefs
Marcus Smith Harlequins
Freddie Steward Leicester Tigers
Manu Tuilagi Sale Sharks
Ben Youngs Leicester Tigers

A bit odd that players have been released back while injured players stay?

Simmonds and Ludlam released as well as Martin. Pretty much confirms Lawes at 6.

14 forwards and 13 in the 23. 3 THs in the squad so the spare man will surely be one of Stuart or Davison.

1.Marler
2.George
3.Sinckler
4.Itoje
5.Hill
6.Lawes
7.Curry
8.Dombrandt

16.Blamire
17.Genge
18.Stuart/Davison
19.Ewels
20.Underhill

That'd be a full strength pack from the squad picked I'd guess.

Unless they shift Curry to 8 to fit Underhill in, then have Dombrandt on the bench.

Frak me.

If Smith ends up being out for the whole AI's and we don't call up Ford to start then i'm out. What's the point in wasting games with Faz at 10? The game-plan won't be anything like what we'd have with either Smith or Ford at pivot, we might win but there's no progression there it's just 2011 repeating itself.

Still, excited to see Curry at 8, Lawes at 6 and Ewers at 4 can't wait for that pack to get out there...

No mention of Steward carrying an injury in the RFU article.

lostinwales wrote:No mention of Steward carrying an injury in the RFU article.

BBC article says that he's a doubt with a leg injury. Just a doubt it says though, it confirms Malins as definitely unavailable this weekend.

Steward was limping towards the end of the London Irish-Tigers game but finished the match, then was available and bang in form the two weeks after. It might be that whatever that niggle was has been aggravated though.

Marcus Smith is really injured after a summer of waiting to see him play against the big boys?
What the heck did Owen Farrell do to him?

king_carlos wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I find the inclusion of Furbank and Simmonds quite baffling tbh. Both have been looked at.....both have failed to deliver and then discarded.

I'm still quite surprised with Davison too....who is becoming a very strong scrumming prop, but doesn't bring anything out of the box really.  

I'm skeptical of Simmonds against the best international defences but in his defence I thought he was decent for England then fell out of favour after injuries rather than being tried and discarded?

The pictures from whatever England were doing in the sea in Jersey (looked like some sort of team building thing with massive surfboards) really made me laugh when I spotted Davison. His rig next to some of the other players looked like some punter in Jersey for a stag do had strolled into the session and joined in.

Jamie George is another who doesnt quite match Max Lahiffs modern day front row physique

Ah Jamie. The human ice cream cone.

I still adore Dan Cole's ability to look exhausted after jogging out the tunnel, but then still look precisely as exhausted after playing 70 odd minutes.

Dan Cole has been caught leading kick chases this season. I have no idea what they subjected him to in pre season but he's rolled back the years. Not that you'd know it from looking at him he still looks mid 50s stalwart prop from down the local club.

I'm glad Ford isn't being called up to face Tonga. He's got a job to do against Bath on Friday. I agree with Faz being a bad call with whatever new strategy we have particularly because it's against Tonga who will offer little resistance and make him look like a competent option only for it to fall apart later.

So it'll be:

1.Marler
2.George
3.Sinckler
4.Itoje
5.Hill
6.Lawes
7.Curry
8.Dombrandt

9 Youngs
10 Farrell
11 May
12 Atkinson
13 Manu
14 Radwan
15 Furbank

Just saw Billy is out for a month with a knee injury