England Autumn Internationals - MARK II

First topic message reminder :

England squad for autumn Tests:

Forwards: Jamie Blamire (Newcastle), Callum Chick (Newcastle), Jamie George (Saracens), Tom Curry (Sale), Trevor Davison (Newcastle), Nic Dolly (Leicester), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Ellis Genge (Leicester), Jonny Hill (Exeter), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Lewis Ludlam (Northampton), Joe Marler (Harlequins), George Martin (Leicester), Sam Simmonds (Exeter), Kyle Sinckler (Bristol), Will Stuart (Bath), Sam Underhill (Bath)

Backs: Mark Atkinson (Gloucester), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Tommy Freeman (Northampton), George Furbank (Northampton), Max Malins (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester), Raffi Quirke (Sale), Adam Radwan (Newcastle), Harry Randall (Bristol), Henry Slade (Exeter), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Freddie Steward (Leicester), Manu Tuilagi (Sale), Joe Marchant (Quins), Ben Youngs (Leicester)

In Positions:
1.Marler, Genge
2.George, Blamire, Dolly
3.Sinckler, Stuart, Davison
4.Itoje, Hill
5.Lawes, Ewels
6.Curry, Martin
7.Underhill, Ludlam
8.Dombrandt, Simmonds, Chick

9.Youngs, Randall, Quirke
10.Smith

11.May, Radwan
12.Farrell, Atkinson
13.Tuilagi, Slade
14.Freeman, Marchant
15.Steward, Malins, Furbank
-------------------------------------------------
England v Tonga - 6th November
England v Australia - 13th November
England v South Africa - 20th November

Cumbrian wrote:

propdavid_london wrote:So many excellent young back rowers -

Kenningham and Will Evans at Quins
Wasps have Barbeary and the Willis brothers
Martin at Tigers
Lewis Ludlum at Saints
The other Curry at Sale

And ontop of that - Underhill isnt exactly old, and has only been slightly off pace since coming back from injury.
Dombrandt and Simmonds still in the mix...

There are going to be many excellent players that will miss out.  
And just depends on what Eddie wants - be it carrying power and handling (Dommers/Simmonds/Barbeary) or fetchers  (Jack Willis/Will Evans) or all rounders (Martin/Ludlam/Kenningham).  

Nice to have options

You can throw Ted Hill for Worcester and Miles Reid for Bath into that, they an excellent young players.

A little way behind them are the likes of Jack Clement (Gloucester), Emeka Ilione (Leicester).

In fact, I could have given another half a dozen names that I would be happy to see start for England and be confident of being competitive.  I don't think we've ever had this level of depth.  Sure the holy trinity were giants, but they didn't have this number of player breathing down their necks.   It is a bittersweet fact that some very good players are not going to have the international career they might have had if they had been born ten years earlier.

The Welsh “scouts” in charge of scouring Granny Facebook pages will be frothing at the mouth

GeordieFalcon wrote:Eddie likes his back rowers who realign in defence quickly etc.

I wonder if thats one drawback of Ted Hill. Maybe why George Martin has overtaken him...

Martin does like making a lot of tackles. If Eddie is going with Lawes at 6 then George Martin is probably the closest thing England has to a like for like replacement.

I still think Kenningham could be a good option at 6 as well actually. Like a taller Robshaw so the lineout option is there and you could fit a Curry style fetcher alongside him for maximum annoyance to the opposition attack coach. Much like the Underhill/Curry combo achieved at the world cup.

I see that nice Mr Jones has published a new book in time for Christmas. Sounds like the perfect gift for "the man who has everything".

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/30/eddie-jones-forthright-leadership-rugby-union-the-breakdown

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Eddie likes his back rowers who realign in defence quickly etc.

I wonder if thats one drawback of Ted Hill. Maybe why George Martin has overtaken him...

Martin does like making a lot of tackles. If Eddie is going with Lawes at 6 then George Martin is probably the closest thing England has to a like for like replacement.

I still think Kenningham could be a good option at 6 as well actually. Like a taller Robshaw so the lineout option is there and you could fit a Curry style fetcher alongside him for maximum annoyance to the opposition attack coach. Much like the Underhill/Curry combo achieved at the world cup.

Im struggling with Kenningham....what is Kenninghams point of difference over some of his competitors...? I dont see much to be honest.

I think Kenningham's point of difference is that he is almost the complete all rounder. Maybe not outstanding in any one area, but very good at a lot of them. He's quick, makes a lot of tackles, jumps in the lineout and is strong over the ball. At Prem level his carrying looks ok too

When we're always banging on about balance in the back row, having a player who can do it all to a good/very good standard is a very helpful option, off the bench if nothing else, I really like him

But surely thats Tom curry? And id argue hes a better alrounder.

Curry is better than everyone though. And you do need a strong overall game, not much point being a standout in 1 area and a liability in another. Kenningham is good, he'd be a bit down my list for England at the moment though. But then I'd have him over Lawes every day of the week.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Curry is better than everyone though. And you do need a strong overall game, not much point being a standout in 1 area and a liability in another. Kenningham is good, he'd be a bit down my list for England at the moment though. But then I'd have him over Lawes every day of the week.

It's the kind of thing we'll have to revisit in a few years but Curry could be an all time great.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Curry is better than everyone though. And you do need a strong overall game, not much point being a standout in 1 area and a liability in another. Kenningham is good, he'd be a bit down my list for England at the moment though. But then I'd have him over Lawes every day of the week.

Yes, Curry is top class.

Im just not getting the "thing" with Kenningham. But hes very young, so ill stand down for the moment and watch his development with interest.

...i wouldnt have him over Lawes

I'm clearly not getting the Lawes thing. Has the occasional glance at a ruck but every time he's in the backrow we seem to stutter there. Great option to have in the lineout and nice touches in midfield. A less productive Croft. Beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholder.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Curry is better than everyone though. And you do need a strong overall game, not much point being a standout in 1 area and a liability in another. Kenningham is good, he'd be a bit down my list for England at the moment though. But then I'd have him over Lawes every day of the week.

Yes, Curry is top class.

Im just not getting the "thing" with Kenningham. But hes very young, so ill stand down for the moment and watch his development with interest.

...i wouldnt have him over Lawes

22 vs 23 years for Curry who has 35 caps. Well worth remembering that players so good so young are rare though.

So hes not even that young....defo not getting the "thing".

Id rather Earl, or Willis, or Ludlum or Underhill...

Eddie on Ollie Lawrence (from his book)

“He’s [Lawrence] still a kid, only 21, but the way that some of the media raves about him you would think he’s already assured of becoming one of the best players in the world. He might do that, one day, but his attitude was not hungry or disciplined enough.”

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm clearly not getting the Lawes thing. Has the occasional glance at a ruck but every time he's in the backrow we seem to stutter there. Great option to have in the lineout and nice touches in midfield. A less productive Croft. Beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholder.

To be fair comparing anybody to a peak Tom Croft is a bit unfair. Skills and pace most backs would like in the body of the type of flanker that's currently very popular (a little ahead of the curve). Lineout jumping he was one of the best at the time and his work rate around the park was excellent but often overlooked because Tigers used him as the link man in the backline instead of the 7 (mostly Moody or Jennings at the time). Just a shame Croft was so liable to picking up injuries he only got 40 England caps in the end.

Kenningham looks good but I'm not sure he's throwing his hand up before any of the more established lads. Lets see how he gets on this season but I'm not sure he's going to overtake anyone anytime soon.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Curry is better than everyone though. And you do need a strong overall game, not much point being a standout in 1 area and a liability in another. Kenningham is good, he'd be a bit down my list for England at the moment though. But then I'd have him over Lawes every day of the week.

Yes, Curry is top class.

Im just not getting the "thing" with Kenningham. But hes very young, so ill stand down for the moment and watch his development with interest.

...i wouldnt have him over Lawes

He could be a genuine threat at the lineout if he works hard in that department. Makes a lot of tackles, jackles and is generally a menace. If you want a Lawes type 6 but less physical and more mobile he could be the one to go to. I'm hoping that he's going to be paired with Evans at Quins as that will be a good indicator to what could happen if he slotted in aside Curry for England.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm clearly not getting the Lawes thing. Has the occasional glance at a ruck but every time he's in the backrow we seem to stutter there. Great option to have in the lineout and nice touches in midfield. A less productive Croft. Beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholder.

To be fair comparing anybody to a peak Tom Croft is a bit unfair. Skills and pace most backs would like in the body of the type of flanker that's currently very popular (a little ahead of the curve). Lineout jumping he was one of the best at the time and his work rate around the park was excellent but often overlooked because Tigers used him as the link man in the backline instead of the 7 (mostly Moody or Jennings at the time). Just a shame Croft was so liable to picking up injuries he only got 40 England caps in the end.

I didnt realise he got that many!

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Curry is better than everyone though. And you do need a strong overall game, not much point being a standout in 1 area and a liability in another. Kenningham is good, he'd be a bit down my list for England at the moment though. But then I'd have him over Lawes every day of the week.

Yes, Curry is top class.

Im just not getting the "thing" with Kenningham. But hes very young, so ill stand down for the moment and watch his development with interest.

...i wouldnt have him over Lawes

He could be a genuine threat at the lineout if he works hard in that department. Makes a lot of tackles, jackles and is generally a menace. If you want a Lawes type 6 but less physical and more mobile he could be the one to go to. I'm hoping that he's going to be paired with Evans at Quins as that will be a good indicator to what could happen if he slotted in aside Curry for England.

I want MORE physical....

Ted HIll was the one i hoped would really make it his spot...but id happily have George Martin. He looks to have that physical edge i like from a 6.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm clearly not getting the Lawes thing. Has the occasional glance at a ruck but every time he's in the backrow we seem to stutter there. Great option to have in the lineout and nice touches in midfield. A less productive Croft. Beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholder.

To be fair comparing anybody to a peak Tom Croft is a bit unfair. Skills and pace most backs would like in the body of the type of flanker that's currently very popular (a little ahead of the curve). Lineout jumping he was one of the best at the time and his work rate around the park was excellent but often overlooked because Tigers used him as the link man in the backline instead of the 7 (mostly Moody or Jennings at the time). Just a shame Croft was so liable to picking up injuries he only got 40 England caps in the end.

And plenty of critics, including wanting to be a back a bit too much.

GeordieFalcon wrote:So hes not even that young....defo not getting the "thing".

Id rather Earl, or Willis, or Ludlum or Underhill...

Different players mature at different times, especially forwards. For a kid who's still not played a full Prem season, Kenningham has a very complete skill set and no real weak points.

He's more rounded than probably any of the candidates except Curry, and compared to Curry he has less maturity in his decision making (but has had less game time and is learning fast), but I think is a marginally better carrier. His real point of difference is likely to be his work rate, which Robshaw found difficult to keep up with and which we know is something that Eddie values highly.

I think Kenningham is a player that Eddie is watching for the future and will definitely have some work ons. But I also think that Eddie will be looking at him as the sort of player who is useful in a tournament squad because he can cover multiple roles in the team.

is Workrate a difference these days though.

You dont make Eddies squad unless your bare minimum is a high workrate...

GeordieFalcon wrote:is Workrate a difference these days though.

You dont make Eddies squad unless your bare minimum is a high workrate...

Yeah but there's good work rate and then there's those that go and do crazy stats, Martin and Ludlow put in some great tackle stats. Some of the tackle numbers are pretty exceptional. Only four players have stolen more lineouts than Kenningham this season (in the league), he's stolen as many as Itoje and Johnny Hill. He's definitely got something about him, 6N might be too early but perhaps next summer tour.

I feel like a lot of the names being thrown around here for backrow are over optimistic. At least a few on the lists are good Prem options at best, remember Int rugby is a different animal and it takes a lot to step up to it.

Just thinking of the Saints backrower who's name escapes me who got about 1 cap after a good season or two and then vanished.

And obviously if these guys dare to look at social media while around camp, or be praised by the Press then that could do for them too...

Phil wrote:Just thinking of the Saints backrower who's name escapes me who got about 1 cap after a good season or two and then vanished.

And obviously if these guys dare to look at social media while around camp, or be praised by the Press then that could do for them too...

Harrison? He's had a great club level career but just looked like he never knew what to do when he got his England chance

I think there is an element of succession planning and having competition should help push the guys at the top. Curry should be around for years. Underhill is not old but prone to injury. Lawes realistically will be gone after the RWC, possibly before although he's playing very well at the moment. But as we have seen with Willis injuries can hit any time.

Most players are never going to be amazing for England, the most people can do is make the argument alot of the time. Generally a very small handful you can tell quickly one way of the other (e.g. Steward and Tompkins), most are going to need about 10 games give or take.

Collier too old for tight head back up?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Collier too old for tight head back up?

If he'd had more caps previously then he might have more chance. Not sure you'd want a rookie at 30 acting as back up. Having said that Eddie went for Davison who's late twenties though he can play both sides which is why I suspect.

He's a good Prem player but unless we're desperate I think Collier's missed his chance.

Anyone reckon Kelly may get a go in the 6Ns? With a more attacking 9 and 10 the inevitable Slade at 13, maybe the defensive glue and pretty strong carrying game to knit things together. More of a back up to Tuilagi fitness depending I'm thinking? Re the comments on Lawrence from Jones, can't work out if its a looked at and discarded or he's looking for the reaction now?

Kelly's rise has been remarkable but I'm not sure his attacking game has developed enough yet for international rugby. He's very aggressive in the tackle and runs good lines but doesn't quite have the power of a crash ball runner, pace and guile of Marchant, distribution of Slade (when he clicks). He isn't weak in any of those areas, but just doesn't quite stand out in any either.

His defence is increasingly impressive and he has a great eye for a turnover which is very useful in a modern midfielder given they tend to be involved in or around so many breakdowns these days. Dunbar was briefly excellent at that for Scotland before his injuries. BOD of course did it for years with Ireland. Kelly has dealt very capably with Manu/Rohan and Esterhuizen this season. His defence has gone up another notch since working with Kevin Sinfield it seems.

Atkinson at the weekend showed both why he frustrates me when he took contact a few times with options to go wider but also why he can be so effective when he drew the defence onto him due to his crash ball potential then dropped the grubber in behind for Harris. That was a really nice touch.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Anyone reckon Kelly may get a go in the 6Ns? With a more attacking 9 and 10 the inevitable Slade at 13, maybe the defensive glue and pretty strong carrying game to knit things together. More of a back up to Tuilagi fitness depending I'm thinking? Re the comments on Lawrence from Jones, can't work out if its a looked at and discarded or he's looking for the reaction now?

That would mean discarding the Slade/Marchant partnership which looked pretty useful for a first outing. If I were to go for a newbie in there as an allrounder that does everything well but doesn't have any massive stand out ability, it would be Dingwall. Pace enough to get away with playing on the wing, size enough to break through tackles, but not Manu like, ball skills enough to play across the backline, kicking skills subtle enough to put through those killing little grubbers, good offloading game, very solid tackler and a good breakdown game. He showed most of these skills Saturday, but I would still have Marchant.

I've said it before, Kelly is for post world cup. He's developing really nicely but needs to round out his game just a little bit more before he can step up to international rugby and stay there. A bit more work on his footwork, distribution and kicking. He has all those things he just needs to tune them up a little and it's probably just an experience thing as he's only 20.

For the 6N I'd be looking at;

9. Youngs, Quirke
10. Smith, Ford
Distributing centre - Slade, Atkinson
Running centre - Marchant, Manu

Keep what we had for the AIs but replace the probably injured Farrell with a better flyhalf and give us a better option off the bench.

I'm going to have to go and watch the Saints game from the weekend because when I've seen Dingwall before he seems a bit like where Kelly is currently. Good all round skills but needs to take it up a notch before he can go to international rugby. I'm also not sure Dingwall is physical enough for international rugby.

I'm trying to think of what Jones may do based on his previous picks and skill sets of centres. Whereas I'd have several players ahead of Slade without Farrell he's going to play. Kelly for me is already one of our best defensive centres, certainly at 12. I agree doesn't have the complete skillset yet but neith did Tindall and with the right balance around I think he may be in the squad. There's about 4 or 5 players there though who I like, guess it's who takes any opportunity and again may end up being the (un)luck of an injury somewhere.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I've said it before, Kelly is for post world cup. He's developing really nicely but needs to round out his game just a little bit more before he can step up to international rugby and stay there. A bit more work on his footwork, distribution and kicking. He has all those things he just needs to tune them up a little and it's probably just an experience thing as he's only 20.

For the 6N I'd be looking at;

9. Youngs, Quirke
10. Smith, Ford
Distributing centre - Slade, Atkinson
Running centre - Marchant, Manu

Keep what we had for the AIs but replace the probably injured Farrell with a better flyhalf and give us a better option off the bench.

I'm going to have to go and watch the Saints game from the weekend because when I've seen Dingwall before he seems a bit like where Kelly is currently. Good all round skills but needs to take it up a notch before he can go to international rugby. I'm also not sure Dingwall is physical enough for international rugby.

I don't see Atkinson as a 'distributing centre'. He can carry powerfully and distribute via hand or foot. His strength is that he carries in both hands and generally retains the option to run, kick or pass making life difficult for defenders. The same is somewhat true for Slade but he is not quite as powerful as a carrier.

Exiledinborders wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I've said it before, Kelly is for post world cup. He's developing really nicely but needs to round out his game just a little bit more before he can step up to international rugby and stay there. A bit more work on his footwork, distribution and kicking. He has all those things he just needs to tune them up a little and it's probably just an experience thing as he's only 20.

For the 6N I'd be looking at;

9. Youngs, Quirke
10. Smith, Ford
Distributing centre - Slade, Atkinson
Running centre - Marchant, Manu

Keep what we had for the AIs but replace the probably injured Farrell with a better flyhalf and give us a better option off the bench.

I'm going to have to go and watch the Saints game from the weekend because when I've seen Dingwall before he seems a bit like where Kelly is currently. Good all round skills but needs to take it up a notch before he can go to international rugby. I'm also not sure Dingwall is physical enough for international rugby.

I don't see Atkinson as a 'distributing centre'. He can carry powerfully and distribute via hand or foot. His strength is that he carries in both hands and generally retains the option to run, kick or pass making life difficult for defenders. The same is somewhat true for Slade but he is not quite as powerful as a carrier.  

I was thinking more that if Slade were to be injured then Atkinson would be someone who could play the secondary playmaker role in the backline. The advantage to Atkinson over someone else is that he'd also be cover as the running option as he can carry hard as well.

Do we honestly think Atkinson has an international future? I know he's not far off but realistically he's only going to be in contention if there are injuries.

He was ok. The reason in part I brought up Kelly though was who will be better by the end of 2022, especially being in the England environment?

I was really excited to see Odogwu in the England camp (before injury).
Anyone know when he is back?

Bit from the Guardian. Sounds like it was covid which eventually got to Mitchell too. Can't imagine he's a guy to go much out of his way to protect former employers if he felt it went against the truth.

'John Mitchell has denied that he abruptly left his role as England’s defence coach after a falling out with Eddie Jones despite signing an extension to his contract just three months before he quit the role.

Mitchell, who has since taken up a coaching role at Wasps, rejected reports that an argument with Jones in the summer over whether he could watch his son Daryl, an international cricketer for New Zealand, play for Middlesex on a day off had precipitated his departure.

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Instead, the 57-year-old New Zealander highlighted the toll of working for England within tight bubble restrictions and the better work-life balance afforded to him at a Premiership club as reasons for his exit.

While that may be true, the bubble restrictions in force during the Six Nations were significantly eased over the summer – Mitchell’s last campaign with England – and only partially explains the about-turn, having signed on through to the 2023 World Cup in February. Mitchell insists he came to the decision in April and informed Jones in May.

“It was an easy decision actually in the end,” Mitchell said. “I had a normal chat and at the end said: ‘Eddie, I’m done mate, thanks very much. You’ve now got the opportunity to find someone else.’

“I think at 57 years of age I value things differently in my life, and just made a decision that I felt that I wanted to get out of international rugby at that point. And you’re sick of the bubbles, sick of the time away from home and I wanted to look at returning to club rugby.

“I wake up and coach every day wanting to enjoy it and wanting to be myself. That’s the most important thing to me. I woke up one day in April, having been thinking about it for a month at least, and just thought: ‘I’ve got to make sure I live by what I value the most.’ I thought: ‘It’s time to make the right decision.’”


Mitchell also insisted he still enjoys a “very good relationship” with Jones and said the fact he had endured the disappointment of being sacked as the All Blacks head coach after their World Cup last-four exit in 2003 meant he was less minded to stay on until 2023 in an effort to go one better with England than in Japan two years ago.

“If a gold medal was important to me and a World Cup, if that was my main priority, then maybe my decision would be different, but I value life more than just winning a World Cup,” he said. “My life has been exposed before in not winning a World Cup so I know exactly what that’s like. I’m certainly not going to put myself in that situation again.”'

propdavid_london wrote:I was really excited to see Odogwu in the England camp (before injury).  
Anyone know when he is back?

Thought I'd read December but no sign as yet.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

propdavid_london wrote:I was really excited to see Odogwu in the England camp (before injury).  
Anyone know when he is back?

Thought I'd read December but no sign as yet.

Last update was mid to late January similar to Dan Robson & Jack Willis.
Joe Launch hopefully before the end of the year.

Mitchell seems to have had a lot of abrupt exits from coaching roles, much like Jones actually. Perhaps he's someone who's always looking over the horizon at the next gig and can't settle where ever he finds himself. He's definitely also burnt bridges in the past and fallen out with players and staff at other clubs so there could be that aspect, certainly him and Jones are probably pretty similar so might cause friction.

I guess we'll see with how he goes at Wasps.

Who are the England coaches now by the way? Can someone list them as i've totally failed to keep track of the merry-go-round!

Coach wise:

Eddie - head coach
Cockerill - coaching advisor or something similar
Plumtree - forwards
Gleeson - attack/backs
Siebold - defence

Proudfoot not Plumtree as scrum coach.

I believe Cockerill's reported title when he joined was forwards coach.

Whatever the titles it sounds like Proudfoot is working with the forwards around set-piece and tight work whilst Cockerill is focused around the forwards in defence and the breakdown. I believe Cockers is also working with the squad as a whole on contact work.

Cheers guys, it feels like there's been such a turnover of staff it's difficult to keep up!

I guess Gleeson will be happy with how the attack went over the autumn, especially in such a cobbled together side it still managed to click more often then we ever did in the 6N's.

Plumtree had a harder task and probably broke even, dominating the Oz team and then stealing some early results from SA before getting slowly ground down. Tactically it didn't look like England had a way of dealing with the Boks but the backs did enough to secure the game.

I would have thought that Proudfoot would be rightly proud of his autumn's work. Considering how inexperienced and cobbled together the England pack was, to come out ahead against Oz and edge a half against the Boks before being ground down is a pretty decent return.

The pack did excellently I thought when factoring in multiple unavailable players in several positions.

LH - Marler and Genge both hit by covid
Hooker - LCD and George injured
Lock - Launchbury injured and Kruis in Japan
Back row - Willis

If available I'd expect all those players to feature ahead of guys who played in the Autumn.

Some wouldn't count Kruis but I'd put good money on him being straight back in the squad next season if he's in the Premiership. When talking about the squad going forward I think he's a player to still consider. If he signs with a Premiership side for next season he could be a perfect player to consider for the summer tour to Australia even. The Japan season finishes in May so if fit he'd be in shape for July. If Itoje and/or Lawes need a break after the Lions tour being able to bring in another test Lion with 45 caps is fairly ideal.

The only real position of concern for me in the pack is TH where I think there's a huge drop after Sinckler.

Poorfour wrote:I would have thought that Proudfoot would be rightly proud of his autumn's work. Considering how inexperienced and cobbled together the England pack was, to come out ahead against Oz and edge a half against the Boks before being ground down is a pretty decent return.

Yea I think that's what I meant, the pack did as well as expected really in the first two games and then over achieved in the first half of the SA game and underachieved in the second.

king_carlos wrote:The pack did excellently I thought when factoring in multiple unavailable players in several positions.

LH - Marler and Genge both hit by covid
Hooker - LCD and George injured
Lock - Launchbury injured and Kruis in Japan
Back row - Willis

If available I'd expect all those players to feature ahead of guys who played in the Autumn.

Some wouldn't count Kruis but I'd put good money on him being straight back in the squad next season if he's in the Premiership. When talking about the squad going forward I think he's a player to still consider. If he signs with a Premiership side for next season he could be a perfect player to consider for the summer tour to Australia even. The Japan season finishes in May so if fit he'd be in shape for July. If Itoje and/or Lawes need a break after the Lions tour being able to bring in another test Lion with 45 caps is fairly ideal.

The only real position of concern for me in the pack is TH where I think there's a huge drop after Sinckler.

If it means that Ewells finally gets jetisoned then it's a good thing. Kruis is quality really anyway but we don't know how he'll go after the step down in rugby in Japan.