Scotland 2022 summer tour

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Scotland 2022 Six Nations Lookahead

A place to discuss the rollercoaster of dark horse conversation and sheer despair. Somewhere in-between, someone will go off on a mild tangent.

Schedule
5th Feb - England (H)
12th Feb - Wales (A)
26th Feb - France (H)
12th March - Italy (A)
19th March - Ireland (A)

Scotland's recent performances
2021: 4th (3 wins, same as 2nd)
2020: 4th (3 wins, same points as 3rd)
2019: 5th (1 win, 1 draw)
2018: 3rd (3 wins, same as 2nd)
2017: 4th (3 wins, same points as 2nd)

majesticimperialman wrote:With bath winning tonight  has Red path played him self in to the Scotland squad or out of it?

What's really important here is that we now have genuine competition for the 12-13 jerseys.

12: Johnson-Redpath-Tiopulotu
13: Harris-Steyn-Tioulotu-Jones
I honestly think any of them would be good enough for Test rugby. With the exception of Redpath and Tiopulotu the others have plenty of experience ( maybe Steyn could do with some more) and, more importantly, experience of winning important matches in a Scotland jersey. I realise I have omitted Currie-Bennett. A few years ago they would have walked into the Scotland squad. Also, if Shona-Seaman destroy the Craggies this afternoon that will really make a statement for Toonie to mull over.
It's weird to think that Huw Jones is probably last in most peoples' pecking order when he is still one of the most devastating attacking 13's in the world. If it was NFL Harris would play all the defensive sets and Jones would trot out to run in the tries when we were attacking, then sit down and post about it on Instagram until the next attacking lineout.

Jimbo, you forgot Hutchinson at 12. Unfortunately, he seems to be becoming the forgotten man and may not get his opportunities until S Johnson is out of the picture (30 at RWC 2023 so may keep going until 2025).

Can understand leaving out Duncan Taylor as the man can't stay fit sadly, but Scott is in the also-rans as well.

A good 60 minutes from Sutherland - dominant in the scrum and a try to his name. He looks fit and strong - will likely start against England.

Hazel Sapling wrote:Jimbo, you forgot Hutchinson at 12. Unfortunately, he seems to be becoming the forgotten man and may not get his opportunities until S Johnson is out of the picture (30 at RWC 2023 so may keep going until 2025).

Can understand leaving out Duncan Taylor as the man can't stay fit sadly, but Scott is in the also-rans as well.

According to the Observer today Toonie has tried 24 different centre pairings in 49 matches Having grown up watching pairings like The Frank And Walter show (Bunce and Little) or Carling-Guscott I do find that slightly surprising. As Glasgow fan it surprises me not at all. Is Toonie searching for that magical pairing which will slay all enemies or is he picking pairings depending on the opposition? Does he even know the answer there?

At the moment I can't see much between Tuipulotu and Johnson at 12. Redpath may be a more creative attacking option...
Harris is the outstanding defensive 13...no doubt but Steyn is a much better finisher and is better defensively than ...Huw Jones who is the most devastating attacker but whose defence often lapse into the "No-one told me it was a party! I was ambushed by the cake" territory.

The Tombola will be spinning like the head of that little girl in The Exorcist.

jimbopip wrote:

Hazel Sapling wrote:Jimbo, you forgot Hutchinson at 12. Unfortunately, he seems to be becoming the forgotten man and may not get his opportunities until S Johnson is out of the picture (30 at RWC 2023 so may keep going until 2025).

Can understand leaving out Duncan Taylor as the man can't stay fit sadly, but Scott is in the also-rans as well.

According to the Observer today Toonie has tried 24 different centre pairings in 49 matches Having grown up watching pairings like The Frank And Walter show (Bunce and Little) or Carling-Guscott I do find that slightly surprising. As  Glasgow fan it surprises me not at all. Is Toonie searching for that magical pairing which will slay all enemies or is he picking pairings depending on the opposition? Does he even know the answer there?

At the moment I can't see much between Tuipulotu and Johnson at 12. Redpath may be a more creative attacking option...
Harris is the outstanding defensive 13...no doubt but Steyn is a much better finisher and is better defensively than ...Huw Jones who is the most devastating attacker but whose defence often lapse into the "No-one told me it was a party! I was ambushed by the cake" territory.

The Tombola will be spinning like the head of  that little girl in The Exorcist.

Another old girl friend of mine.....

By the way, as a Saints guy, I quite like Hutchinson as an attacking centre, his try yesterday against Worcester is a great example.  But think his defense is a bit below International level.  If you need to chase a game, he might be your man.  Otherwise, I think you can find someone a bit better to pair with your Lions outside centre.

Toonie also thinks we can find someone better to pair with The Hardest working Man In World Rugby. He has a short list whittled down to 14 or 15 likely candidates. Which is a very short list for Toonie.

I think he will play Redpath at 12. He has proved himself fit now and from what we saw of him last year, he just looked born to international rugby.

He and Harris are going to be our centre pairing for the next WC, so the sooner we get them going the better.

How I long for the simple days of who will it be outside the world class battering ram Graeme Morrison... Marcus Di Rollo? Nick De Luca? Shlong...?

Really goes to show how far we've come in 10 years at centre, despite not having a settled pairing. I'd be happy with all of the IC options. I agree with above sentiments that Redpath would probably compliment Harris, however Tuipolotu and Johnson edge it for me given they've had far more game time in the last 6 months, don't want another Duncan Taylor situation where he's rushed back to international after a major injury unnecessarily, only to underperform. Given our fly half scenario I'd be tempted to bench Redpath, have Hogg cover FH and give the other bench spot to Maitland. I don't rate kinghorn beyond Edinburgh.

So who's there next Saturday??

Time to start double guessing Toonie?
I'll stick my head above the parapet then.

1.Schoeman/Sutherland (not sure who'll start, probably depends on how fit Sutherland looks in training)
2. Turner Ashman, I think Toonie will be looking to play at a fast, fast pace and Ashman can inject more speed in the latter stages than Rambo
3.Zander Nel I don't see Sebastian as an international TH.
4. Gilchrist Gray has been out of form for a while, maybe extreme homesickness, but GG has been on form.
5. Cummings Just keeps getting better. Hodgson to bench
6. Fagerson
7. Darge RD has been in all the SRU media blether this week so maybe Hamish isn't 100%
8. Bradbury Haining
9. Aldi Price Vellacot or the other uncapped 9! We're fecced if Aldi gets injured early
10. NOT BLAREHORN Dancer. Blarehorn
11. Duhan
12.Johnson Tuipoluto
13.Harris
14. Steyn
15. Hogg

The nightmare scenario is we end up, fairly sharpish, with an uncapped 9 and Blarehorn at 10. Redpath could bench as he could cover 10 or 12. Or possibly Titman starts and Steyn benches covering centre and wing. he problem is the more one tries to understand Toonie's thought process the more confused one gets.

Did Jimbo really just pick Gilchrist??

A bit to experimental for a Calcutta Cup 6N opener Jim. Toonie has actually proved a little less inclined to use the Tombola in his international guise than he ever was at Glasgow. With England a little bit disorganised by injuries and covid, this is surely the time to put out a settled team.

1. Sutherland - had a good game for Worcester at weekend and has certainly not been overplayed this year
2. Turner - the pick of the hookers at the moment
3. Fagerson Z - No real competition here unfortunately
4. Gray J - his class and experience is needed here
5. Cummings - free to roam a bit if JG does the grunt
6. Ritchie - I really don't see how he can be left out, always turns up for Scotland
7. Watson - Darge is close but will surely bench this time
8. Fagerson M - this one was tricky, Bradbury is close but does Toonie really believe in him?
9. Price - a no brainer even though his recent form has been a bit patchy
10. Russell - again no real debate
11. VDM - another shoe in
12. Redpath - three games under his belt and he is the star waiting to shine, got to start him
13. Harris - nothing to say
14. Kinghorn - gives the bench options that Toonie wants
15. Hogg - As always

Subs

Schoeman - touch and go with Sutherland and both will play a big part
Ashman - the young man's time is coming and he needs to start getting international experience
Nel - The old warrior will need to do 10-15 mins and still has that in the tank
Gilchrist - this is a tricky one and was a toss of the coin with Skinner, who lost as he played this weekend
Bradbury - This spot between him and Haining
Darge - makes his debut off the bench
Vellacott - A great player to add some pace in the last 20 mins
McLean/Graham/Bennett/Steyn/Tuipolotu - really can't make up my mind on this one, all have their merits

Actually Gee our selections are very similar.
Front rows; I couldn't decide between Sutherland and Shooey. I think both are in the 23.
Second row; I think GG has played more than Jonny recently and has certainly showed a bit more dog.
Back row; Eddie Jones is playing mind games with his "We're up for a fight" nonsense. It's as if he wants Toonie to pick three big, heavy bruisers. Bradbury-Haining-Fagerson say. Which would suit England, methinks. Hamish wasn't 100% fit before the squad announcement iirc and Darge has been punted heavily in the SRU media this week. Normally it would be Hamish and no arguments but...  At 6 I totally forgot Mbawza, mea culpa and you are right he is a certain starter. Fagerson or Bradbury? One starts, does the other bench or is it Haining?
At 12? Redpath has had very little rugby this year; certainly since the last Calcutta Cup. Either he is fresh and raring to go or still needs a few games to really be up to speed. Tuipoluto looks like he could be a really good 12, but is this the game to find out? Johnson is the safe choice there.
If it's a 5-3 split we can have Vellacot, Redpath and Blarehorn on the bench. Steyn on the wing covers centres and Blarehorn covers 10,11, 14 and 15. Redpath can cover 12 or 10.
If it's a 6/2 bench then Redpath or Blarehorn miss out. Unfortunately Graham and McLean could both miss out as they don't offer the defensive clout of Steyn or the flexibility of Blarehorn. All they do is score breathtaking tries.

Seems like most positions pick themselves but here’s my punt at it anyway to give a third team to Jimbo and Gee’s.

Sutherland
Turner
Nel
Gilchrist
Gray
Ritchie
Watson
Fagerson
Price
Russell
DVDM
Redpath
Harris
Maitland
Hogg

MacInally, Schoemann, Fagerson, Cummings, Christie, Darge, Vellacott, Kinghorn

The long term weather forecast says it’ll be wet and windy so I’ve selected for a repeat of 2020’s gael. A shame for the Russell vs Smith match up but could work out well for us if smith does get the nod ahead of Ford. Ford showed everyone how to win in poor weather two years ago and I’d feel more afraid with him running the show than smith or Bailey in poor conditions.

I predict a 6-2 split and impact subs for what I feel might be a tight game. Nel is scrummaging well this season and I’d feel happy seeing him pack down against England rather than Fagerson who hasn’t been at his best in recent games. Fagerson comingmonnin the second half is a big impact sun.

I’m a bit hesitant about who should start in the back row. Ritchie, Watson and fagerson would be a safe bet but Bradbury and Christie have both had good seasons. And then there’s Darge! Surely it’ll remain a settled selection but you never know..

I agree with jumbo and think Gilchrist deserves to start, he is an experienced player and if it isn’t going to be a try fest then having someone like him in the boiler room could be beneficial. Cummings or Hogdson to bench, once again for the impact off the bench.

My team:

Sutherland
Turner
Fagerson
Gray - just sneaks in ahead of Gilchrist
Cummings
Ritchie
Watson
Bradbury - a must start for me, our only 8 capable of carrying ball properly at international level and he is bang on form
Price - lets hope he gets his mojo back
Finn
VDM
Repath - hasn't skipped a beat since he came back and oozes quality
Steyn - never going to happen, but I always think that Finn is at his best with a strike runner at 13, I think we have missed this something in attack since Harris has cemented his place - Steyn can provide that balance of good defence and a stronger attacking game than Harris
Graham
Hogg

Schoeman
Ashman
Nel
Gilchrist
Fagerson
Darge
Vellacott
Kinghorn

Bhatti out of the squad with injury, replaced by the lesser spotted Alan Dell, who we have not seen for a while. That does not say a lot about what the coaches feel about Keeble's form, unless he is out with injury as well, he did get clattered on Saturday as well.

Rowe and DVDM back with the squad.

Maitland goes back to Sarries and Bayliss goes back to Bath to recover from his concussion.

None of them likely to have featured in the first match anyway but Bhatti would have been useful if there was an injury.

Passing through here once more for the big stuff. Been busy with covid fixing/avoiding (of other people) and a breast cancer embuggeration for my wife, which treatments are all going well for thankfully.

Seems i have missed a lot of chat here! Massive PE in dubai, needing intensive care, cockers moving on, resurgent pro teams and an aussie 8 sent from the heavens to answer our world cup prayers.

Hope all on here are well and thriving currently. I do love pre-6n week.

I am optimistic this year. Lots of soft signs that things are in rude health with out lot. Welsh regions struggling in europe and URC and Edin and Glasgow top 2 of the league. A recent drubbing by exeter to keep feet on the ground but fronting up physically against some good sides all the same. Quality, experienced players playing well and the pundits who never look our way recognising potential - hopefully that feeds into referee’s perceptions where we are as a team too.

This weekend look at the likely back lines - british lions half back pairs all round. Sam Johnson who always plays well against england against a new / inexperienced cap. Chris Harris (one of the beat 13s around in today’s gameplan) against slade. Some inexperienced wingers against duhan and one other. Haven’t even mentioned Hogg! Cautiously optimistic for this weekend and having Ireland and Wales knocking lumps out of each other first up doesn’t hurt either.

France are the team to beat for everyone else. For us it’s ireland, will GT find a recipe that works for our bogey side? I do think that wales, england and italy are beatable this season, france may be a better bet for a win than ireland for us. Will it be enough? Let’s see and enjoy the ride!

Hope that your wife gets through that okay Long Road. 

Good point about a strike runner EST, how many times has Russell linked up with Vakatawa at Racing? But having an out and out attacking 13 seems to have been a victim of the Tandy defensive plan. It feels like the only player who will usurp Harris before he is too old is a centre who offers parity in defence and something extra in attack. Good luck to whoever that is, Harris loves smashing people.

Kebble is back in SA according to the incredibly factual land of social media so perhaps he is injured then?

Wwll he got a head injury on saturday, so likely was ruled out this week anyway.

Glasgow got a gap week now, so he may have taken the opportunity to head home. I imagine some of the other Glasgow players will be heading for some winter sun as well.

Shame he’s not involved with Bhatti out. But hard to see Dell getting game time with both Sutherland and Schoeman in good form anyway. I think Kebble is solid prop, always gets over the gain line.

So if Maitland is back to Saracens then that pretty much means it is all in with the new generation for this 6N (Unless injuries occur).

Rowe, Kinghorn, Graham, Steyn, Maclean to line up with DVM. In poor weather conditions I think I’d want Graham in there as he’s so slippery and agile. There’ll be plenty of dropped balls anyway so might as well pick a player who can slip tackles and find gaps in crowded spaces. Can’t wait to see what the coaches go for.

Just comparing our team now to the bunch of punters we fielded a decade ago who got tonked 6-13 by Engerlund at Murrayfield:

FB 15 Rory Lamont
RW 14 Lee Jones
OC 13 Nick De Luca
IC 12 Sean Lamont
LW 11 Max Evans
FH 10 Dan Parks
SH 9 Chris Cusiter
N8 8 David Denton
OF 7 Ross Rennie
BF 6 Alasdair Strokosch
RL 5 Jim Hamilton
LL 4 Richie Gray
TP 3 Euan Murray
HK 2 Ross Ford (c)
LP 1 Allan Jacobsen

Replacements:
HK 16 Scott Lawson
PR 17 Geoff Cross
LK 18 Alastair Kellock
FL 19 John Barclay
SH 20 Mike Blair
FH 21 Greig Laidlaw
CE 22 Graeme Morrison

Surely, SURELY we're in a better place now?

George Carlin wrote:Just comparing our team now to the bunch of punters we fielded a decade ago who got tonked 6-13 by Engerlund at Murrayfield:

FB 15 Rory Lamont
RW 14 Lee Jones
OC 13 Nick De Luca
IC 12 Sean Lamont
LW 11 Max Evans
FH 10 Dan Parks
SH 9 Chris Cusiter
N8 8 David Denton
OF 7 Ross Rennie
BF 6 Alasdair Strokosch
RL 5 Jim Hamilton
LL 4 Richie Gray
TP 3 Euan Murray
HK 2 Ross Ford (c)
LP 1 Allan Jacobsen

Replacements:
HK 16 Scott Lawson
PR 17 Geoff Cross
LK 18 Alastair Kellock
FL 19 John Barclay
SH 20 Mike Blair
FH 21 Greig Laidlaw
CE 22 Graeme Morrison

Surely, SURELY we're in a better place now?

Of that backline, I would say only Chris Cusiter would be challenging for a spot in our current team.

In the forwards, RG and probably Denton. We never really found out how good Ross Rennie was unfortunately and Ross Ford, who was good for us but still not sure he is as dynamic as Turner and Ashman.

So yes, we do seem to be in a much better place.

RDW wrote:Did Jimbo really just pick Gilchrist??

I did and so did Toonie.
A very heavy front 5 and the weather forecast probably ruled out Darge. Skinner and Bradbury on the bench suggests loads of one out rugby.

Anyone know if the U20s is televised anywhere this year??

tigertattie wrote:Anyone know if the U20s is televised anywhere this year??

It is on the BBC iplayer live

Well lads I got myself a ticket to the game tomorrow. A last minute invite from the old man and a very welcome one.

The last time I saw Scotland play England at Murrayfield IanBru sold me two tickets for it. It was actually the match BigGee mentions above where charge down hogdson took the match winner and Scotland butchered a simple two on one that would have probably been enough to win. Denton was brilliant and the MOM. Hopefully it’ll be a better spectacle than 2012 and 2020.

Scotland u20s doing well after 20mins.
Leatherbarrow at 8 and the whole pack superlative.
Backs slightly less so.

That Ollie Leatherbarrow is an absolute handful. He could be a cracking player

And Scotland lead 12-10 at half time.

McLintock at 15 also looking good, but the midfield D is soft.
Paul Graysons son is 12 for England, and looking pretty sharp.

BigGee wrote:That Ollie Leatherbarrow is an absolute handful. He could be a cracking player

Dust him down after tonight and get him in the full team tomorrow

We’ve been crying out for a good 8 for years. In a few years time it could well be leatherbarrow

Now that was a run

tigertattie wrote:

BigGee wrote:That Ollie Leatherbarrow is an absolute handful. He could be a cracking player

Dust him down after tonight and get him in the full team tomorrow

We’ve been crying out for a good 8 for years. In a few years time it could well be leatherbarrow

Not sure he would be an 8 at full international level, but he is certainly a good all round back row forward

BigGee wrote:

tigertattie wrote:

BigGee wrote:That Ollie Leatherbarrow is an absolute handful. He could be a cracking player

Dust him down after tonight and get him in the full team tomorrow

We’ve been crying out for a good 8 for years. In a few years time it could well be leatherbarrow

Not sure he would be an 8 at full international level, but he is certainly a good all round back row forward

Yeah he was playing at 7 last season. Certainly worth keeping an eye on though

That's a harsh yellow

We have played well in parts in this game, but you can't give away three coast to coast tries and expect to get anything from a game like this,

The speed of thought and action of the English backs has been the difference in this game.

They are youngsters but Scotland have capitulated

Heads are down and England running riot

Scotland's tackling has not been good.

I miss the A team games on 6N eve. There just seems to be no appetite from the Unions for them anymore. I guess the logistics of preparing an entirely different 23 - most who were training with the main squad - plus orrssure from English clubs make it not worthwhile.

Would have been nice to have seen certain players and combos together.

Our current A team would be something like

1 Kebble
2 Cherry
3 Sebastian
4 Hodgeson
5 Sykes
6 Christie
7 Darge
8 Haining

9 Vellacot
10 Thomson
11 McLean
12 Hutchinson
13 Bennett
14 Rowe
15 Smith

Although worth saying that as always England look like a fully adult professional team in terms of physique. Scotland look like under 20s!

tigertattie wrote:They are youngsters but Scotland have capitulated

Heads are down and England running riot

hardly a capitulation, tattie. Forwards never took a backward step.

Scotland were soft out wide and in broken play all night. It took England until halftime to target that area.

tigertattie wrote:They are youngsters but Scotland have capitulated

Heads are down and England running riot

Capitulated is a bit harsh. We are always going to struggle against England at this level, a lot of our players have hardly played this season.

It will be more informative to judge this group over the whole series and see if they can learn from their experiences in games like this.

Deserved 4-try bonus for Scotland, and long overdue yellow for England.

Final score 24-41.

and we get a well deserved BP.

The score probably flattered England a bit in this game, but as usual at this level, they are a long way ahead of us.

Lets see how the rest of the series goes.

I only caught bits of this game, as I flittered between the other Brit isle game...

It's tough watching when playing against a nation who could honestly select 4/5 U20 teams and theyd all be competitive.

I'm looking forward to the match tomorrow, every year I hear the same old rhetoric around Scotland (outside favourites, dark horses, improvement) but this is the first time i'm looking at their squad and genuinely have them as contenders.

I don't think Scotland will quite have enough to win it, but I certainly see them as slight favourites against England, and favourites away to Wales. Winning both of these games puts a very different spin on the France home game, where Scotland will certainly fancy themselves.

Scotland should be targeting 3 wins as a minimum, 4 with a touch of luck, and dare I say it I wouldn't be the most shocked man on the planet to see a Scotland championship, I think a GS is too far out there with Ire away last up.

I wish them well, and I think they can thank Gatland for the experience of a lot of players who has used the lions tour as a springboard.

Well the bbc 6ns kick off show is a bit of a dud.

3 Welsh, 2 English and even Rory best has rocked up as a representative of Ireland.

Scotland seem to have boycotted the affair

Cheers Dave, I agree with you on the Lions. That’s a new one for us, half the starting XV being lions. They’re the players who need to perform today and lead by example.

I have England as slight favourites too mostly because I think their bench is much better than ours.

Well good luck everyone - deep breaths, stay calm and we'll all get through this together.

I'm sure it'll be a stress free next 8 weeks!

bsando wrote:Cheers Dave, I agree with you on the Lions. That’s a new one for us, half the starting XV being lions. They’re the players who need to perform today and lead by example.

I have England as slight favourites too mostly because I think their bench is much better than ours.

I agree the bench for England looks a little higher quality, but I just can't get over that for the first time that I know of the Scotland players have the edge individually, in units and systems, quality wise and experience wise.

I wouldn't underestimate England, but with the return of Murryfield crowd, Scottish club performance, Lions contingent etc I get the same feeling about Scotlands chances to push to win this tournament as I do Frances...

If not now, then when?!

I think France have to win this tourny, but I also think Scotland HAVE to win 3/4 games, otherwise all this progression will start to slide away. For England this is a bit of a freebie, no pressure, new faces, new units... they either go out and get beat by Lions, or they go out and beat up Lions, it's no lose really.

I think Scotland 24 - 21

Watched the u20s to the 70th minute when England got to their penultimate try. It felt like we were up for it in the first half and came out flatter in the second. Our bench did not have the talent to keep it going. Our defensive structure through the match was poor leaving wide channels open. We fronted up well because at times there were 4-5 players within 5 yards of each other.

Patrick Harrison the hooker looks ready and his loan at Wasps hopefully got him in the shop window. He is too good to be behind McBurney and should be getting time as McInally and Cherry are over 30.

Leatherbarrow looks to be learning off Simmonds but does not have the pace. Maybe he can get a bit bigger and I think his comparable is more M Fagerson/Aldritt/Moriariy if things work perfectly.

Disappointed by Townsend, I thought he did not control the backs well and he made mistakes throughout. There is talent there and going down to Stade Nicois or London Scots for a year or two would do him a world of good. Those links are poorly used by the SRU as Chamberlain could definitely have been loaned this season (unless there is something going on I am not aware of?). Did not see any of Cunningham to see if he is in a similar boat.

So how's everyone feeling after that?

Apart from drunk, of course.