WALES V ITALY.

First topic message reminder :

35minutes gone and Italy 12 points to Wales7.

Was not expecting this score in the first half.

Nice from Adams

Who expected that?

Well done Italy

Josh Adams

Capuozzo's tweet before the match:

https://twitter.com/CapuozzoAnge/status/1504864240489877504

Well done Italy.

Young team with alot of players with potential.  Average age 26 with most of their key players younger than that.  No 9 still an issue but will Garbisi the younger at 9 for the u20s be the next player off the rank.

Crowley seemed spot on with tactics and their defensive set up seem to have improved alot since he took over.

Have to wonder if Polledri is the Italian Tugaligi, when he comes back he will be great but will he be around long enough.  Having him at 8 really would help them.

Pivac, still questions hang over him.  Good in defeat against England and France.  They often seem they aren't unlucky losers but always look second best.  Think the team is better but poor management.  Unlike Italy most of their key players are the wrong side of 30 and this WC might be the last hurrah for some.

Poor ALW lost his 50th, 100th and 150th I think.

This is going to receive a lot of ribbing from opposition fans! Will take a long time to get over. God damn!

I could not watch live. Watching knowing the result the best moment was Jiffy awarding the MOTM to Adams!

[quote="The Oracle"]This is going to receive a lot of ribbing from opposition fans! Will take a long time to get over. God damn! [/quot]

I was going to p[ost a thread asking how may points Wales would win by. Glad i did not post it now.

Still who would of thought that Italy would win their first of the 6ns against Wales.
And wining it in Wales. it was a cracking game tho.

Oracle.

Wales 2021 6ns champions. 2022 Fith place, will their be questions of Pivac staying on to the RWC 2023?

majesticimperialman wrote:Oracle.

Wales 2021 6ns champions. 2022 Fith place, will their be questions of Pivac staying on  to the RWC 2023?

Yes of course

OMG WELL DONE ITALY!!

Josh Adams giving his POTM medal to Capuozzo....bravo Josh Adams...true spirit and reflection of his character

The thing for Wales is that they alternate having their tougher games home with having them away. Home advantage means a lot in the 6N and Wales tend to yoyo between very good and very bad finishes in the table.

I tend to think they are rarely quite as good as the hype when they win the tournament, but also rarely as bad as the table suggests when it goes like this. The schedule alternately helps and handicaps them.

Italy have been gradually getting better and have been in the game for long periods this year. It was only a matter of time before they put an 80 minute performance together - though it is surprising that they managed to do it against one of the best finishing sides in the tournament and away from home.

Poorfour wrote:The thing for Wales is that they alternate having their tougher games home with having them away. Home advantage means a lot in the 6N and Wales tend to yoyo between very good and very bad finishes in the table.

I tend to think they are rarely quite as good as the hype when they win the tournament, but also rarely as bad as the table suggests when it goes like this. The schedule alternately helps and handicaps them.

Italy have been gradually getting better and have been in the game for long periods this year. It was only a matter of time before they put an 80 minute performance together - though it is surprising that they managed to do it against one of the best finishing sides in the tournament and away from home.

All games are tough when you’re playing sh*te!

For a period up until a few years ago when France were poor, yes Wales had the situation where they had relatively easier games grouped together away (all of the blue teams) and then England and Ireland at home, and vice versa the following year. Now France are good again we have a very hard game in with the blues. No no easy feat, if it ever was.

For no other reason than fancying a change, I do think it would be good to mix up the fixtures a bit. Why do we stick to the same in perpetuity? Wales have had the blue teams either home or away since the formation of the 6N. It’s nice and easy to remember the fixtures, in fairness, but I like a bit of change now and then

It was a very nice and sporty gesture of Josh Adams to give his MoM medal to the young Italian kid whose run made the winning try.

He probably felt a bit embarrassed to have got it, though he was one of the better Welsh players, but still very good to give it to the match winner like that.

Congratulations to Italy. As much as it pains me to say it, they thoroughly deserved the win.

BigGee wrote:It was a very nice and sporty gesture of Josh Adams to give his MoM medal to the young Italian kid whose run made the winning try.

He probably felt a bit embarrassed to have got it, though he was one of the better Welsh players, but still very good to give it to the match winner like that.

I would have given it to our hooker if I had to pick a Welsh player. Adams was ok, scored a nice try. But so did Watkin so I’m not sure how Adams warranted it. Thought Adams was lucky at a few rucks as he seemed to interfere a bit and go off his feet, etc.

Such fine margins. Not taking anything away from Italy, but we were over the line with Wyn Jones late on and it was adjudged to be held up. Italy then went and scored. If we’d been awarded it (I know, I know….ifs and buts) we’d have the bonus point try and I think would have been out of sight. And then potentially finishing 3rd depending on the England result. As it is, we were held up, switched off and conceded a try and ultimately the game resulting in 5th place! Ifs and buts

BigGee wrote:It was a very nice and sporty gesture of Josh Adams to give his MoM medal to the young Italian kid whose run made the winning try.

He probably felt a bit embarrassed to have got it, though he was one of the better Welsh players, but still very good to give it to the match winner like that.

Josh Adams was total class after doing that. What an absolute diamond. He's not my favourite player by a long way (he always seems to score against us English!) but he really showed today what rugby is all about. Wonderful gesture.

I hope that Capuozzo has a long and successful career with Italy - despite being a tiny chap he's pretty special.

The Oracle wrote:This is going to receive a lot of ribbing from opposition fans! Will take a long time to get over. God damn!

Normally they'd be people lining up to get the knife in! I think the Welsh fans in general have been on such a downer of late, it feels almost sad to knock you.

Nice to Italy getting a win though, hopefully they'll kick on a bit.

Reflecting on the game yesterday. If i was a Welsh fan.( which i am not) but if i was a Welsh fan the one question i would like an answer to. is why when Wales had those 3/4 penalties in Italy's half is why they did not take one kick at goal?

Was it arrogance on behalf of Wales? was it disrespect for Italy? The one thing to come out of yesterday game is that it is not over untill 80minutes are up.

And lets hope jiffy learned a lesson yesterday not to give MOM  untill the game is over.

https://twitter.com/jimhamilton4/status/1505457029879668736?t=CCiAu17f7atxeNQxIakOTA&s=19

(Sound on)

Sorry Wales fans but this is excellent! Works perfectly with every break he does.

England fan who loved the game - not wanting to rub it in, but Italy are starting to get their act together, have a much better development system now, and have started to get good young players coming through. Clearly some issues Italy still need to resolve defending multiple phases, and Wales will be disappointed thinking they could/should have won. But evidently a big step up performance wise from Italy who have improved throughout the tournament in my opinion. It was just amazing to see what that win meant to them - the pressure on Garbisi (who is only 21) for that final kick must have been off the scale, even if it was a sitter.

Totally agree with all those saying it was a class moment from Josh Adams as well after the game. I've never quite understood the sense of giving out the POTM aware a few minutes before the end... but good on Josh for how he reacted in the circumstances.

Anyway, on a bit of a tangent with Wales, is there an issue with not taking penalties? Much like the England game Wales lost despite outscoring the opposition 3 tries to 1. Much as we all like tries when they come, do Wales need to learn to judge better when to take the points on offer, or are you folks happy with the current approach? There were a few occasions in the first half that Wales seemed to ignore the easy points, go for glory, and get nowt.

Feel bad for Wales, but absolutely happy for Italy, which is also good for Rugby. Josh Adams, as already said, class.

Throughout the tournament Italy never lacked for commitment and their defense was usually top notch despite little meaningful possession. And for the match winning play by a kid weighing in at just over 11 stone!!!!!! Awesome.

doctor_grey wrote:Feel bad for Wales, but absolutely happy for Italy, which is also good for Rugby.  Josh Adams, as already said, class.  

Throughout the tournament Italy never lacked for commitment and their defense was usually top notch despite little meaningful possession.  And for the match winning play by a kid weighing in at just over 11 stone!!!!!!  Awesome.  

To put that into some sort of meaningful context, he is less than half the weight of Uni Antonio! Maybe about the same as one of his legs

BigGee wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Feel bad for Wales, but absolutely happy for Italy, which is also good for Rugby.  Josh Adams, as already said, class.  

Throughout the tournament Italy never lacked for commitment and their defense was usually top notch despite little meaningful possession.  And for the match winning play by a kid weighing in at just over 11 stone!!!!!!  Awesome.  

To put that into some sort of meaningful context, he is less than half the weight of Uni Antonio! Maybe about the same as one of his legs

He looks it!

mikey_dragon wrote:Can’t help but feel pleased for them…

100%, and what a try to win it. Superb.

Big wrote:On a bit of a tangent with Wales, is there an issue with not taking penalties?  Much like the England game Wales lost despite outscoring the opposition 3 tries to 1.  Much as we all like tries when they come, do Wales need to learn to judge better when to take the points on offer, or are you folks happy with the current approach?  There were a few occasions in the first half that Wales seemed to ignore the easy points, go for glory, and get nowt.

No I'm not happy with the current approach, it's moronic. Unless you're well on top up front, or well adrift and chasing the game, or of course if it's from the touchline, you should be taking the points every time. We even turned down relatively easy kicks when we were 13-9 down against France, who we must surely have known are hard to break down defensively.

Uncontested easy points, it's idiocy to turn them down. Is there a good reason that I'm just not seeing?

Not taking easy 3 points when you attack is poor, and the Welsh attack is poor, is just dumb.

On the commentary I thought Dylan Hartley was actually quite good.
Jiffy was he usual annoying pain in the arse and as soon as the Italian try was scored I had to laugh about his MotM award.
Fair play to Josh Adams, he did the right thing but not everyone would have done so

After the loss to Italy, fans and other people  was saying Pivac should go. as it is his fault Wales lost yesterday.

My question is who is at fault the head coach or the captain for the decisions he made or the entire team for the way they played?

We are clueless & toothless in attack, we have no pattern of play apart from to move side to side on the pitch, then when we don't make a break we kick the ball away.

I don't know what the long term answer is but I really don't think Pivac will improve us & sadly neither will any of his back room staff.

Bit if a mixture, Maj. Some players did not put the effort in. Saw the video yesterday of the Italian prop sprinting from his own half to chase the kick from (I think) Ioane, while Wyn Jones the prop jogged halfheartedly. Some players delivered shocking final passes in promising positions that were too low, too far in front, etc. and lead to the moves ending. But overall the attacking moves were poor. Sean Holley did his analysis bit on Scrum V last night and pointed out the terrible shape of our back line. That has to come from the coaches, surely? A lot of these players were under Gatland and they played much differently, so it must be the patterns and plays the coaches are pushing onto them. Similarly, the one up runners and lack of support at the breakdown. I'm sure that's a tactic to allow maximum players in attack once the ball is won, but each team targeted us there and we were turned over with ease.

So a combo for me. Personally, I think Gatland knew he had a limited bunch of players coming from poorly performing clubs (regions) and applied a limited gameplan that anyone could follow and just made sure we were super fit and relentless in our approach. Secure the ball and pressure the opposition. Nothing fancy, because we didn't have the players for it. And he got us into a good place where we were very competitive. I think Pivac is trying to get us to be a bit more fancy but that's a struggle for players coming from poor club environments. It's running before they can walk, in a way. They're just not up to the task.

Im sure Wales fans feel pretty low now but it is great for Italy to get the win especially one away from home. Strange campaign for Wales playing very well v France and England and very badly v Ireland and Italy. I do feel the writing is on the wall for Pivac though at least Wales still do have some great players. I underestimated Adams, he is a top player.

Wales will have a lot of players the wrong side of 30 post the next RWC and will see a major transition.
The list of players in an around the squad this year, if I was a Welsh fan, is quite scary; AWJ, Owen's, Francis, W.Jones, Tipuric, Navidi, Faletau, Biggar, Anscombe, Priestland, Halaholo, J.Davies, North, Cuthbert, L.Williams.

A number will no doubt try to play on but will pose bigger risks with form and injury profile for test rugby.
France, England and Ireland all have a younger age profile in their squads and not sure a summer tour to South Africa is the place to go to create a younger blend of squad players either.

Players and coaches need to go: Pivac, Jones, Humphreys, Jenkins.

Anscombe, Johnny McNicholl, Gareth Davies, Seb Davies, Elias, Ellis Jenkins, Sheedy, Watkin. I'm not sure who else we lose from the back-row as nobody else really put a foot wrong there. AWJ, depending on what capacity he should stay in the squad but not at the expense of starting Beard / Rowlands.

To come in; Patchell, Lloyd, Owens, North, Tipuric, Ratti, Jarrod Evans, Ben Thomas, Nicky Smith.
If Tompkins and North aren't available I think we should put a fly-half at centre. The Scarlets U20 centre James looks very good, would like to see him get a crack at pro rugby.

What new coaches would you bring in mikey?

Actually posted that on the wrong thread, meant to post on the Wales one.

majesticimperialman wrote:What new coaches would you bring in mikey?

A coaching team of Scott Robertson, Pat Lam, Stuart Lancaster and Steve Borthwick!

What about Rob Howley?

Collapse2005 wrote:What about Rob Howley?

He’s in Canada I think isn’t he?

mikey_dragon wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:What new coaches would you bring in mikey?

A coaching team of Scott Robertson, Pat Lam, Stuart Lancaster and Steve Borthwick!

Wouldn't mind the WRU buying Adam Jones out of his contract at Quins!