Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[JuliusHMarx]

First topic message reminder :

I am not prone to defending the old firm but what do you mean by not close to CL standard? They are probably pretty similar to other pot 4 teams.

They clearly aren't capable of competing in it, furthermore if they were genuinely Champions League standard they wouldn't have to rely on Russian league expulsion to get in automatically and wouldn't have such a dismal qualifying record against Malmo, Copenhagen, Midtylland etc.

Teams that are CL standard actually appear in it, rather than once every five years. Evidently they are there to make up numbers.
Getting third position is the aspiration and that looks a step too far for Rangers at least and likely Celtic

Fancy editing this one before I go forth and rip the utter Poopie apart point by point?

Not at all. Celtic and Rangers are proving categorically why they are pot 4. They have been terrible.
Unless they do their part in improving the SPL and thus increasing revenue so they can compete at this level they are only ever going to be able to do ok in Europa and Conference, it's clear as day they aren't up to the CL under the status quo.
Not really sure how you can "rip that apart"
Celtic and Rangers are partially responsible for how bad the quality of the domestic League is, but do nothing to improve it. It's self fulfilling and any reasonable OF fan would admit they aren't good enough for the Champions League and unless things change domestically, they never will.
That's pretty reasonable isn't it?

Yes, it comes down to money, but if your teams can't be arsed to improve the product, then expect this every year until your coefficient denudes to the point where automatic qualification doesn't occur.

Rangers and Celtic aren't good enough. It's just a fact.

Ok points
1. Russian expulsion, they were already going to be ahead of Russia in the coefficient. Rangers pretty much over the past 4 seasons dragged the Scottish coefficient from 23rd to 8th FACT
2. Rangers have faced Danish opposition twice since their resurgence, comfortably beating Midtylland in the Europa league qualifying and taking 4/6 points off Brondby in the group stage last season. I can’t and won’t speak about how the other half of the OF have performed.
3. I know this will be painful for you to grasp but the Scottish league is the 8th best league in Europe and in terms of finance is there punching above it’s weight.
4. Rangers were ranked 33rd at the end of last season, at the point of the CL group stage draw they were ranked 29th, had that ranking been used in the CL draw they would have been in POT 3, but for a Ramsay penalty they would have been in pot 1

Saying they can’t compete is utter Love sacks, there is a mile of difference between saying they’ve performed poorly compared to last season and saying they can’t compete. If they ship the same amount of goals in the next 3 games and 0 points then you’d be moving toward a semblance of a point but we’re not there yet are we.

5. Civic.

[super_realist]

No hypocrites on the left though?

Not saying there aren't any but an example would be good.

Eh, how about Labour harbouring racists like Corbyn and Abbot? How about wanting to get rid of private schools whilst sending children to private school?

[super_realist]

The reason it matters that people have been comparing this with gender identity is because it is a way to undermine trans people. You have to know the argument goes something along the lines of if people can identify as cats then transgenderism is just as ridiculous.

But whatever the motives for the cat stuff is, do you have any link I could check out that actually confirms pupils identified as cats?

Mac, there's a specific example from 2 years ago in Melbourne in which the teacher tolerates a child identifying as a cat . You could use this new thing called a search engine. It halps you find topics of interest and articles based on key words. It's really impressive. 

This whole trans thing is pretty ridiculous anyway. For the number of people it affects, it is given way too much time in politics. The fact that vile groups like Stonewall who used to be a force for good for gay people and gay rights have got their hooks into so many business and who refuse to do work with people due to what latent views they might hold is ridiculous, as is nonsense like critical race theory, gender ideology etc. 

I don't think a trans woman, is an actual woman, do you? I don't think calling a mother a "birthing parent" or that breast feeding should be replaced as "chest feeder" are worthwhile things, do you?

[super_realist]

Anyone gone from contract to permanent (for less money) but job security, pension, bonus etc? Regretted it or not?

[JAS]

Anyone gone from contract to permanent (for less money) but job security, pension, bonus etc? Regretted it or not?

I did, I freelanced for 20 years, enjoyed it but once I got on the wrong side of 50 gaps started to appear in between contracts (ageist illegitimate childen!!). So I took the decision to go back permit in 2018 (luckily a good call not long before covid). Yes the pay was Poopie compared to contracting, but a really good pension scheme and 30 days holiday plus flex days very much softened the blow. It was a move I would simply NEVER have contemplated 5 years earlier, even 2 years earlier when I ended up having quite a big gap between 2 contracts.

After I took the plunge back, whilst I was on less than half what I could be on as a freelancer it was stable and I kind of was enjoying it until a promotion opportunity came along last year (for a role which I could have done standing on my head) and I got knocked back. I did start having niggles of regret at that point but then when a better opportunity with a BIG salary rise came around last summer I grabbed it and to be honest with everything factored in (holidays, pension, bonus etc) I'm now not that worse off than I would have been freelancing.

Swings and roundabouts really, if you have niche skills and someone is willing to pay top whack for them, milk it. Can't speak for other sectors but I know in IT though many technical skills are highly valued and attract BIG day rates but the flip side is that many have a limited shelf life so people need to be aware of not backing themselves into a career cut-de-sac

[super_realist]

That's the issue JAS, IN Norway contractors have to be offered a permanent role after three years, therefore people often get binned citing "end of contract" after two. 

Drawback is I'd have to either rent or sell my Edinburgh place to make it work as I'd be giving up my living expenses which pays for flights and accommodation in Norway as well as accepting less money, but like you say, I'd have pension, shares, bonus, holiday pay, healthcare etc. 
Just trying to negotiate a higher starting rate and if I get that will probably take plunge.

[super_realist]

This is the sort of woke madness Mac thinks doesn't exist. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66119218

[JAS]

This is the sort of woke madness Mac thinks doesn't exist. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66119218

First observation I’d make is that the marketing people clearly never done any due diligence or did and chose to ignore.

Having said that I tend to agree that it’s a bit crazy, politicians and policy makers need to focus on real issues at the moment, not this kind of useless fluff.

By the way it’s simply madness, nothing to do with woke, misuse of the word woke…again!!

[super_realist]

This is the sort of woke madness Mac thinks doesn't exist. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66119218

First observation I’d make is that the marketing people clearly never done any due diligence or did and chose to ignore.

Having said that I tend to agree that it’s a bit crazy, politicians and policy makers need to focus on real issues at the moment, not this kind of useless fluff.

By the way it’s simply madness, nothing to do with woke, misuse of the word woke…again!!

Woke had an original definition, but it's morphed into something else, such as telling us how to live our lives, what we can and can't see, what our opinions should be etc.

[super_realist]

Another shambolic  BBC cover up.
When is this organisation going to be defunded?

[McLaren]

Super

If an organisation was shut down every time one of its men was exposed as being a sex pest there wouldn't be many left.

[JAS]

This is the sort of woke madness Mac thinks doesn't exist. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66119218

First observation I’d make is that the marketing people clearly never done any due diligence or did and chose to ignore.

Having said that I tend to agree that it’s a bit crazy, politicians and policy makers need to focus on real issues at the moment, not this kind of useless fluff.

By the way it’s simply madness, nothing to do with woke, misuse of the word woke…again!!

Woke had an original definition, but it's morphed into something else, such as telling us how to live our lives, what we can and can't see, what our opinions should be etc.

Still the same to me and most people who would take the time to check what it actually meant. It hasn’t morphed on its own, it’s been hijacked by the intolerant right because the intolerant right don’t like it because they don’t care about being aware or awake to injustice, it must be a horrible concept for them to deal with, so they mischaracterise a word as a deflection.

[super_realist]

Super

If an organisation was shut down every time one of its men was exposed as being a sex pest there wouldn't be many left.

Mac, it's the constant cover ups. Saville, Bashir, Harris, this one and the fact we pay for this as forced licence holders. 
It would appear BBC didn't act at all on this complaint and it took a tabloid newspaper to bring it to our attention.

[McLaren]

Good point Jas. It's a bit like when social justice warrior became a slur. Like supporting social justice causes was a bad thing?

[super_realist]

This is the sort of woke madness Mac thinks doesn't exist. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66119218

First observation I’d make is that the marketing people clearly never done any due diligence or did and chose to ignore.

Having said that I tend to agree that it’s a bit crazy, politicians and policy makers need to focus on real issues at the moment, not this kind of useless fluff.

By the way it’s simply madness, nothing to do with woke, misuse of the word woke…again!!

Woke had an original definition, but it's morphed into something else, such as telling us how to live our lives, what we can and can't see, what our opinions should be etc.

Still the same to me and most people who would take the time to check what it actually meant. It hasn’t morphed on its own, it’s been hijacked by the intolerant right because the intolerant right don’t like it because they don’t care about being aware or awake to injustice, it must be a horrible concept for them to deal with, so they mischaracterise a word as a deflection.

 Ha ha ha. Wokeness isn't about just being "aware" or "awake to injustice" 
Perhaps ask a victim of Rotherham child abuse how they feel about injustice when Police failed to investigate because they "didn't want to get accused of "islamophobia" by the intolerant left, or perhaps ask a female inmate how they feel about a man going to a woman's prison because "they are trans".

[super_realist]

Good point Jas. It's a bit like when social justice warrior became a slur. Like supporting social justice causes was a bad thing?

Nothing wrong with social justice Mac, the issue is when people do it to further their own image when they don't really care. 
Gary Lineker would be a perfect example of how it is just to use Social Justice Warrior as a pejorative by saying he supports Just Stop Oil despite taking over 100,000 air miles in the last few years and driving a Mercedes C63.
Holly Willoughby another taking a helicopter to Glastonbury. 

Funny how those climate wonks didn't protest the lefty hell hole of Glastonbury isn't it?

[McLaren]

Super

If an organisation was shut down every time one of its men was exposed as being a sex pest there wouldn't be many left.

Mac, it's the constant cover ups. Saville, Bashir, Harris, this one and the fact we pay for this as forced licence holders. 
It would appear BBC didn't act at all on this complaint and it took a tabloid newspaper to bring it to our attention.

Woke BS. If an independent contractor wants to sell nudes that's between them and the customer.

[super_realist]

Super

If an organisation was shut down every time one of its men was exposed as being a sex pest there wouldn't be many left.

Mac, it's the constant cover ups. Saville, Bashir, Harris, this one and the fact we pay for this as forced licence holders. 
It would appear BBC didn't act at all on this complaint and it took a tabloid newspaper to bring it to our attention.

Woke BS. If an independent contractor wants to sell nudes that's between them and the customer.

Mac, it is illegal to buy sexual pictures of someone under 18. Thought you'd know that from your Emma Watson days.

[McLaren]

Super

I don't get how someone who has watched Matt Dillahunty for many years still thinks the behavior of the person making the argument speaks to the truth of the claim. Whether Holly uses a helicopter or Lineker takes a flight says nothing about what should happen to tackle climate change.

[McLaren]

Super

I am around the same age as Emma Watson.

[navyblueshorts]

This is the sort of woke madness Mac thinks doesn't exist. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66119218

Apart from the absurd stance from TfL, the worst bit of this is the nonsense about cake being 'unhealthy'. They have no idea what they're talking about.

[JAS]

Super

If an organisation was shut down every time one of its men was exposed as being a sex pest there wouldn't be many left.

You don’t think we should have a supposedly impartial state funded broadcaster? On the basis of…it’s made a few mistakes? If you think it’s poorly run just think about the political leanings of the chairman & chief exec and who appointed them.
How to destroy a state entity, chapter 1, install your own people to help destabilise it.

Does Norway have one? Just curious

[JAS]

So...if some nonce was quite clearly attempting to groom your child would you
A) Report him to the police
B) Report him to his employer
C) Go sort him out yourself
D) Give him the ultimately hideous punishment of throwing orange confetti over him
E) Something else

How many people would HONESTLY select B?

[McLaren]

Jas

As long as you don't pick C) I'm not bothered. Sounds like some "daddies little princess" type macho BS.

[McLaren]

Anyway,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66159357

[JAS]

So...if some nonce was quite clearly attempting to groom your child would you
A) Report him to the police
B) Report him to his employer
C) Go sort him out yourself
D) Give him the ultimately hideous punishment of throwing orange confetti over him
E) Something else

How many people would HONESTLY select B?

Mac the only sensible answer is A) and only the parents (and possibly Sun Journos) will know why they chose B) over A) beginning to sound to me like a manufactured sting without proper foundation. Who would EVER have guessed the Sun would get involved in such shenanigans

[navyblueshorts]

So...if some nonce was quite clearly attempting to groom your child would you
A) Report him to the police
B) Report him to his employer
C) Go sort him out yourself
D) Give him the ultimately hideous punishment of throwing orange confetti over him
E) Something else

How many people would HONESTLY select B?

Mac the only sensible answer is A) and only the parents (and possibly Sun Journos) will know why they chose B) over A) beginning to sound to me like a manufactured sting without proper foundation. Who would EVER have guessed the Sun would get involved in such shenanigans

I'd probably choose A), first, and then B) as a followup.

Re. The Sun: I wonder who owns it? Hmm....

[I'm never wrong]

Philosophical question. Do you identify a person who is suspected of sexual offences? On the one hand, if they are named and the person is found not guilty or the offence was made up, they are forever tainted. But against that, if a person is named it can bring people forward who were also assaulted by the person concerned, but were not going to come forward as they thought they wouldn't be believed. They feel more likely to be believed if others were affected as well.

[McLaren]

INW

If routinely naming suspects of sexual offences was shown to improve conviction rates and outcomes for victims I would accept a fairly high rate of mistaken identity cases. Tend to view these things like drugs, you just have to accept some side effects to get the benefit.

If it wasn't possible to know if naming was a benefit I might still cautiously support naming alleged perpetrators because covering this stuff up over the years doesn't seem to have done any good.

[JAS]

INW

If routinely naming suspects of sexual offences was shown to improve conviction rates and outcomes for victims I would accept a fairly high rate of mistaken identity cases. Tend to view these things like drugs, you just have to accept some side effects to get the benefit.

If it wasn't possible to know if naming was a benefit I might still cautiously support naming alleged perpetrators because covering this stuff up over the years doesn't seem to have done any good.

On that basis I guess you'd be ok with being incorrectly identified then? Just an unfortunate side effect??

In the Social media age, being wrongly accused of an offence, particularly a sexual one, must be one of the most hideous experiences imaginable. In theory, you could ruin someones life with an accusation.

[super_realist]

Super

I don't get how someone who has watched Matt Dillahunty for many years still thinks the behavior of the person making the argument speaks to the truth of the claim. Whether Holly uses a helicopter or Lineker takes a flight says nothing about what should happen to tackle climate change.

Yes it does. 
If you actually care about climate change, then you minimise your impact by altering your behaviour. 

It isn't an excuse to simply say, "well it's not my fault that civilisation hasn't come up with better options, so I'll just pollute as much as I want and blame other people until something else is done about it"

[super_realist]

Super

If an organisation was shut down every time one of its men was exposed as being a sex pest there wouldn't be many left.

You don’t think we should have a supposedly impartial state funded broadcaster? On the basis of…it’s made a few mistakes?  If you think it’s poorly run just think about the political leanings of the chairman & chief exec and who appointed them.
How to destroy a state entity, chapter 1, install your own people to help destabilise it.

Does Norway have one? Just curious

No, I don't think we should have a state broadcaster. Why would you, especially one clearly not impartial.

[JAS]

Super

If an organisation was shut down every time one of its men was exposed as being a sex pest there wouldn't be many left.

You don’t think we should have a supposedly impartial state funded broadcaster? On the basis of…it’s made a few mistakes?  If you think it’s poorly run just think about the political leanings of the chairman & chief exec and who appointed them.
How to destroy a state entity, chapter 1, install your own people to help destabilise it.

Does Norway have one? Just curious

No, I don't think we should have a state broadcaster. Why would you, especially one clearly not impartial.

Well see that's arguable and it's a circular argument that has no end and we've been round the loop a few times, left leaning people say its biased toward the Tories and right leaning people say the opposite. On that basis the only natural conclusion most objective people would come to is that over the piece it will average out as impartial.

i.e. for every Gary Lineker there's a Tim Davey

[super_realist]

I don't mind the BBC existing, I object to having to pay for it if I dare to watch live television. 
They shouldn't have a hold on that aspect.

[McLaren]

On that basis I guess you'd be ok with being incorrectly identified then? Just an unfortunate side effect??

Doubt I'd be happy about it but if you were being strictly rational about it maybe you'd have to accept it.

[McLaren]

Yes it does. 

[super_realist]

Yes it does. 

My mistake Mac, bit of a mistype. 
My point was that Lineker and his accolytes are hypocrites. How can you be on favour of a group, whilst indulging gratuitously and greedily in the very resource they are so keen to ban?
Does Lineker drive a 6 litre Merc because he's "climate conscious"? You can't claim to support a group whilst showing how little you actually care. He has plenty options which would give a better "optic"

[McLaren]

I don't mind the BBC existing, I object to having to pay for it if I dare to watch live television. 
They shouldn't have a hold on that aspect.

The only live terrestrial TV I have watched in the last 10+ years is the WC and Olympics and I still happily pay the TV license.

[super_realist]

I don't mind the BBC existing, I object to having to pay for it if I dare to watch live television. 
They shouldn't have a hold on that aspect.

The only live terrestrial TV I have watched in the last 10+ years is the WC and Olympics and I still happily pay the TV license.

Must have an awful lot more money than you used to Mac. Was only a few years ago you were talking about stealing your neighbours WiFi

[McLaren]

Super

This might be a rabbit hole but we should probably be careful about beleiving tabloid claims about what cars celebrities drive.

The biggest impact Lineker (Hamilton, watson, vettell, Thompson etc) can make is cashing in their status to promote awareness of climate change. Some hypocritical behavior might lessen that message but it doesn't change whether or not the argument that we should do something about climate change is true.

I just find the current trend for purity so tiresome. Yes it might be ideal of Lineker drove a prius but we can't always get everything.

[McLaren]

Must have an awful lot more money than you used to Mac. Was only a few years ago you were talking about stealing your neighbours WiFi

I don't remember making that claim, or indeed actually using a neighbours wifi, but I have been posting here since uni so it's entirely possible I did. I watched a lot of Neighbours in uni.

[navyblueshorts]

Philosophical question. Do you identify a person who is suspected of sexual offences? On the one hand, if they are named and the person is found not guilty or the offence was made up, they are forever tainted.  But against that, if a person is named it can bring people forward who were also assaulted by the person concerned, but were not going to come forward as they thought they wouldn't be believed. They feel more likely to be believed if others were affected as well.

If they're named when charged by police, I'm sure that would draw those others out. No need to name anyone prior to that.

[navyblueshorts]

INW

If routinely naming suspects of sexual offences was shown to improve conviction rates and outcomes for victims I would accept a fairly high rate of mistaken identity cases. Tend to view these things like drugs, you just have to accept some side effects to get the benefit.

If it wasn't possible to know if naming was a benefit I might still cautiously support naming alleged perpetrators because covering this stuff up over the years doesn't seem to have done any good.

Ridiculous. I hope this comes to pass and you're mistakenly accused in the national press. What a stupid position to adopt.

[navyblueshorts]

Super

If an organisation was shut down every time one of its men was exposed as being a sex pest there wouldn't be many left.

You don’t think we should have a supposedly impartial state funded broadcaster? On the basis of…it’s made a few mistakes?  If you think it’s poorly run just think about the political leanings of the chairman & chief exec and who appointed them.
How to destroy a state entity, chapter 1, install your own people to help destabilise it.

Does Norway have one? Just curious

No, I don't think we should have a state broadcaster. Why would you, especially one clearly not impartial.

Nonsense. Just because they don't deal with issues you'd like, or how you think they should be dealt with, doesn't make you any decent arbiter as to their independence.

[navyblueshorts]

Super

This might be a rabbit hole but we should probably be careful about beleiving tabloid claims about what cars celebrities drive.

The biggest impact Lineker (Hamilton, watson, vettell, Thompson etc) can make is cashing in their status to promote awareness of climate change. Some hypocritical behavior might lessen that message but it doesn't change whether or not the argument that we should do something about climate change is true.

I just find the current trend for purity so tiresome. Yes it might be ideal of Lineker drove a prius but we can't always get everything.

That's the point. If you're trying to lead, bloody do so by example FFS. I loathe hypocrisy and I suspect many others do as well. Hardly surprising, especially if the hypocrite in question is loaded and can easily afford to minimise their own impact.

[super_realist]

Super

This might be a rabbit hole but we should probably be careful about beleiving tabloid claims about what cars celebrities drive.

The biggest impact Lineker (Hamilton, watson, vettell, Thompson etc) can make is cashing in their status to promote awareness of climate change. Some hypocritical behavior might lessen that message but it doesn't change whether or not the argument that we should do something about climate change is true.

I just find the current trend for purity so tiresome. Yes it might be ideal of Lineker drove a prius but we can't always get everything.

Mac, it's well documented, as is his airmiles and personal travel 

I'm not asking for purity, I've had about 35 flights this year, I'm saying that if you are a large polluter, as Lineker is, don't pretend to care about climate. It's a simple equation.

How does being a famous name help any cause if you flagrantly ignore your own advice you want everyone to adhere to behaviour you don't do yourself. 
 More likely you're just likely to alienate people against you. 

If Shane Lowry or Boris Johnson were the face of Weight Watchers would you think that was helping to get the message of self respect, diet, nutrition and exercise across better than someone who actually did live the values?

[McLaren]

Being using hypocrisy as a reason for not accepting someone's argument is just ad hominem.

[super_realist]

Being using hypocrisy as a reason for not accepting someone's argument is just ad hominem.

It really isn't. Why would you attempt to make an argument when your behaviour already clearly demonstrates that you don't even buy into your own argument?

Lineker, like all of these morons is just doing it because he thinks it will make him "look good"
He knows that saying what most people actually think about Just Stop Oil etc would see him targeted by them.

Lineker wasn't making an argument. He was saying he supported Just Stop Oil whilst doing precisely nothing to demonstrate that he actually does. He's just another champagne environmentalist.

[navyblueshorts]

Being using hypocrisy as a reason for not accepting someone's argument is just ad hominem.

Not really. It's expecting someone to practice what they preach if that person is expecting others to do as they suggest. Standard human nature. TBH, I couldn't care less what these people say on this subject, but I think it's fair to criticise them for their behaviour on the subject vs. what they're suggesting others should do, and many wouldn't do as you say you'd do if these people are hypocritical re. their own behaviour, so they're not helping much there.

[Duty281]

I don't mind the BBC existing, I object to having to pay for it if I dare to watch live television. 
They shouldn't have a hold on that aspect.

https://www.cordbusters.co.uk/tv-licence-fee-evasion-highest/

According to the BBC’s Television Licence Fee Trust Statement for the year ending 31 March 2023, and the BBC’s Annual Report and Accounts 2022/23, the TV licence fee evasion rate has been on the rise.

The TV Licence fee evasion has been a growing concern for the BBC, with the estimated evasion rate for 2022/23 reaching 10.31%, up from 9.38% in the previous year.

This is the first time since 1995 that the estimated rate of evasion has exceeded 10%. This increase represents a significant loss in revenue for the BBC, with the estimated loss amounting to around £430 million.

This is excellent news.

[JAS]

I don't mind the BBC existing, I object to having to pay for it if I dare to watch live television. 
They shouldn't have a hold on that aspect.

https://www.cordbusters.co.uk/tv-licence-fee-evasion-highest/

According to the BBC’s Television Licence Fee Trust Statement for the year ending 31 March 2023, and the BBC’s Annual Report and Accounts 2022/23, the TV licence fee evasion rate has been on the rise.

The TV Licence fee evasion has been a growing concern for the BBC, with the estimated evasion rate for 2022/23 reaching 10.31%, up from 9.38% in the previous year.

This is the first time since 1995 that the estimated rate of evasion has exceeded 10%. This increase represents a significant loss in revenue for the BBC, with the estimated loss amounting to around £430 million.

This is excellent news.

I don't think it is really because if it aint funded properly, it's offerings will become even more Poopie. Also the license payers left that aren't contentious objectors will have to fill the difference. I bet they all think they're effin heroes as well. Looks like the Right wing demonisation of the BBC is having it's desired destabilisation effect then.
With regard to the evasion/avoidance it's a bit like the whole Cayman Islands, Non dom and other spurious aggressive tax avoidance/evasion. They think they're so clever but actually it the rest of us that either have to make up the difference or watch public services disintegrate or at the moment...both!!

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