Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[JuliusHMarx]

First topic message reminder :

I am not prone to defending the old firm but what do you mean by not close to CL standard? They are probably pretty similar to other pot 4 teams.

They clearly aren't capable of competing in it, furthermore if they were genuinely Champions League standard they wouldn't have to rely on Russian league expulsion to get in automatically and wouldn't have such a dismal qualifying record against Malmo, Copenhagen, Midtylland etc.

Teams that are CL standard actually appear in it, rather than once every five years. Evidently they are there to make up numbers.
Getting third position is the aspiration and that looks a step too far for Rangers at least and likely Celtic

Fancy editing this one before I go forth and rip the utter Poopie apart point by point?

Not at all. Celtic and Rangers are proving categorically why they are pot 4. They have been terrible.
Unless they do their part in improving the SPL and thus increasing revenue so they can compete at this level they are only ever going to be able to do ok in Europa and Conference, it's clear as day they aren't up to the CL under the status quo.
Not really sure how you can "rip that apart"
Celtic and Rangers are partially responsible for how bad the quality of the domestic League is, but do nothing to improve it. It's self fulfilling and any reasonable OF fan would admit they aren't good enough for the Champions League and unless things change domestically, they never will.
That's pretty reasonable isn't it?

Yes, it comes down to money, but if your teams can't be arsed to improve the product, then expect this every year until your coefficient denudes to the point where automatic qualification doesn't occur.

Rangers and Celtic aren't good enough. It's just a fact.

Ok points
1. Russian expulsion, they were already going to be ahead of Russia in the coefficient. Rangers pretty much over the past 4 seasons dragged the Scottish coefficient from 23rd to 8th FACT
2. Rangers have faced Danish opposition twice since their resurgence, comfortably beating Midtylland in the Europa league qualifying and taking 4/6 points off Brondby in the group stage last season. I can’t and won’t speak about how the other half of the OF have performed.
3. I know this will be painful for you to grasp but the Scottish league is the 8th best league in Europe and in terms of finance is there punching above it’s weight.
4. Rangers were ranked 33rd at the end of last season, at the point of the CL group stage draw they were ranked 29th, had that ranking been used in the CL draw they would have been in POT 3, but for a Ramsay penalty they would have been in pot 1

Saying they can’t compete is utter Love sacks, there is a mile of difference between saying they’ve performed poorly compared to last season and saying they can’t compete. If they ship the same amount of goals in the next 3 games and 0 points then you’d be moving toward a semblance of a point but we’re not there yet are we.

5. Civic.

[navyblueshorts]

I'm not saying Lucy Letby is innocent but the publicly available (or at least what has made the news) evidence used to convict her is pretty weak.  I would hesitantly conclude it was an incompetently run department with some grievances that got out of hand at worst, based on the available evidence.

A bit pointless, this? You aren't party to even 1% of the actual evidence, or the context in which it was discussed, in this case. More evidence of your 'scientific method'?

[navyblueshorts]

I'm not saying Lucy Letby is innocent but the publicly available (or at least what has made the news) evidence used to convict her is pretty weak.  I would hesitantly conclude it was an incompetently run department with some grievances that got out of hand at worst, based on the available evidence.

Good thing you weren't on the jury. She should hang.

No; no she shouldn't, and not because I have much sympathy for her. That would be the definition of state murder, and I don't want us either looking like America, Saudi Arabia etc or, perhaps more importantly, allowing for the state murder of any innocent individuals further down the line.

[navyblueshorts]

Good thing you weren't on the jury. She should hang.

That would look like a pretty hasty decision when she gets cleared in the next decade or so.

Doh!

[navyblueshorts]

The hospital managers that ordered the consultants who raised concerns to apologise to her should also be in the dock.

If they've actually done anything criminal, then yes. Assuming any relevant investigation corroborates the line put forward by the Consultants, I'd definitely like to see them sacked if still in any NHS position, and I'd like to see their pensions docked as well.

[McLaren]

Navy

I made it pretty clear I made the claim based on the available evidence.

I assume other people just assume the jury were provided more convincing evidence that is not yet in the public domain?

[Duty281]

Not sure what you mean by information not yet in the public domain. It was an open court trial, all reported on. Here's an index of everything that happened: https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/23152082.countess-nurse-lucy-letby-happened-trial/

And here specifically is the prosecution's summing-up: https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/23597625.recap-lucy-letby-trial-monday-june-19---closing-speeches/

https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/23600333.recap-lucy-letby-trial-june-20--prosecution-closing-speech/

https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/23603440.recap-lucy-letby-trial-june-21--prosecution-closing-speech/

https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/23606159.recap-lucy-letby-trial-june-22--prosecution-closing-speech/

[McLaren]

And have you read all of that? I'm waiting for a more spoon fed version.

[JuliusHMarx]

And have you read all of that? I'm waiting for a more spoon fed version.

Surely you've read it all, otherwise how can you make any sort of judgement that would be better informed than that of the members of the jury who were present in the court room for the whole trial?

[McLaren]

Do you think I trust a random sample of the UK population to make a sensible decision?

[Duty281]

And have you read all of that? I'm waiting for a more spoon fed version.

You said the publicly available evidence to convict her is weak. I'm pointing out it isn't and it's available for you to read if you want to understand why she's guilty beyond reasonable doubt (x14).

Amazing that you have the arrogance to sneer at the jury over their decision making capabilities, when it's seemingly beyond your grasp to do about 20 minutes worth of reading.

[McLaren]

If it's only 20 minutes I could just about fit it in.

[super_realist]

England's Ladies football team criticised for you guessed it,  a "a lack of diversity" Just pathetic. 
I see a few race baiters are claiming Letby was treated differently because she's white too.

[super_realist]

I said women should be believed. Bit of a stretch to suggest that means I think that would be enough to send someone to jail.

No, they shouldn't be believed. They should have their complaints taken seriously and investigated but treated with the same level of scepticism as anyone else is. 
Allegations of crime aren't just taken on what someone said, they're investigated in regards to the available evidence. 
The role of law is to determine whether there is enough evidence to find the defendant guilty of a crime  not guilty until it's proven false. That's law 101 Mac.

[super_realist]

Do you think I trust a random sample of the UK population to make a sensible decision?

Considering you vote Green and support Just Stop Oil it seems you will believe what a random and insignificant  sample of the UK says.

[JAS]

Anyone any idea how the seedings work in the CL qualifiers. Out of the 12 teams contesting the last 6 places how come in a supposedly seeded draw, the 1st (30th) & 3rd (40th) ranked teams have to play each other whilst other teams not ranked in Uefa’s top 100 get to play each other for a place in the group stage??

[JAS]

Who would snog a World Cup winning striker with the world watching :-p….and not expect any repercussions?? Was it an example of
Unbridled patriotic joy
Opportunistic sleaziness
Somewhere in between

[super_realist]

Wouldn't worry Jas, can't see Rangers being in it.

[JAS]

Wouldn't worry Jas, can't see Rangers being in it.

Doh!! Rangers are actually the highest ranked team in the final qualifying round, hence my point.

I don’t think they’ll make it either as PSV are better than they were at this point last year. You do realise as well that if they get through they’ll be Pot 3 this time rather than pot 4?

[super_realist]

Wouldn't worry Jas, can't see Rangers being in it.

Doh!! Rangers are actually the highest ranked team in the final qualifying round, hence my point.

I don’t think they’ll make it either as PSV are better than they were at this point last year. You do realise as well that if they get through they’ll be Pot 3 this time rather than pot 4?

Well they might be, but they appear to be even worse than last year. Probably best for them and Scottish football they get demoted to Europa. 
Scottish clubs are so far below CL level that there's no point in another humiliation.

[Soul Requiem]

Yup, much better for Rangers not to receive Champions League money.

[super_realist]

Yup, much better for Rangers not to receive Champions League money.

2 years ago they reached the Europa League final, last year they earned the title of the worst team ever to play in the Champions League. 
Reputational damage of being a whipping boy is much more harmful than the small amount received from getting annihilated in the group stage would assuage,  not to mention being in Europa would be more likely to earn valuable coefficient points. If Rangers and Celtic continue to stink out the Champions League as seems likely  it won't be long before accruing zero coefficient points has detrimental repercussions for Scottish teams. 

They were like Shane Lowry in a 100m final. Useless.

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

I made it pretty clear I made the claim based on the available evidence.

I assume other people just assume the jury were provided more convincing evidence that is not yet in the public domain?

OK. What you're saying is that you haven't a properly informed opinion, but have held forth on a demonstrably incomplete set of evidence. I have to ask if that is commensurate with the 'scientific method' you espouse so ardently...

[navyblueshorts]

Do you think I trust a random sample of the UK population to make a sensible decision?

That's the way the law works in this country. Someone as bright as your good self surely understands that?

[navyblueshorts]

Who would snog a World Cup winning striker with the world watching :-p….and not expect any repercussions?? Was it an example of
Unbridled patriotic joy
Opportunistic sleaziness
Somewhere in between

Yeah; pretty stupid. I'd go maybe 99:1 in favour of the sleaziness option. Maybe it's the stereotypical Latin temperament? Think he'll he'll be looking for a new job soon.

[Duty281]

Anyone any idea how the seedings work in the CL qualifiers. Out of the 12 teams contesting the last 6 places how come in a supposedly seeded draw, the 1st (30th) & 3rd (40th) ranked teams have to play each other whilst other teams not ranked in Uefa’s top 100 get to play each other for a place in the group stage??

I presume you're referring to Rangers and PSV.

Rangers and PSV are in the 'League Path', along with Braga and Panathinaikos, with Rangers being seeded and PSV not seeded. The only other team Rangers could have played at this stage was Panathinaikos. Rangers and the three others are in the league path because they didn't win their domestic league last season.

The other path - where Haifa, Young Boys, Athens, Antwerp, Czestochowa, Copenhagen, Galatasaray and Molde are - is the 'Champions Path' for teams who won their domestic league last season.

Does leave things somewhat imbalanced, I agree, but gives a greater chance for actual league winners.

[McLaren]

Navy

I made it pretty clear I made the claim based on the available evidence.

I assume other people just assume the jury were provided more convincing evidence that is not yet in the public domain?

OK. What you're saying is that you haven't a properly informed opinion, but have held forth on a demonstrably incomplete set of evidence. I have to ask if that is commensurate with the 'scientific method' you espouse so ardently...

I drew no conclusion based on an incomplete set of evidence, what else would you suggest?

Not being convinced she is guilty isn't a claim.

[JAS]

Anyone any idea how the seedings work in the CL qualifiers. Out of the 12 teams contesting the last 6 places how come in a supposedly seeded draw, the 1st (30th) & 3rd (40th) ranked teams have to play each other whilst other teams not ranked in Uefa’s top 100 get to play each other for a place in the group stage??

I presume you're referring to Rangers and PSV.

Rangers and PSV are in the 'League Path', along with Braga and Panathinaikos, with Rangers being seeded and PSV not seeded. The only other team Rangers could have played at this stage was Panathinaikos. Rangers and the three others are in the league path because they didn't win their domestic league last season.

The other path - where Haifa, Young Boys, Athens, Antwerp, Czestochowa, Copenhagen, Galatasaray and Molde are - is the 'Champions Path' for teams who won their domestic league last season.

Does leave things somewhat imbalanced, I agree, but gives a greater chance for actual league winners.

Cheers Duty, how refreshing to get a knowledgeable answer rather than the dull, snide insults surrounding Rangers that Super normally dumps into the conversation.

[super_realist]

Anyone any idea how the seedings work in the CL qualifiers. Out of the 12 teams contesting the last 6 places how come in a supposedly seeded draw, the 1st (30th) & 3rd (40th) ranked teams have to play each other whilst other teams not ranked in Uefa’s top 100 get to play each other for a place in the group stage??

I presume you're referring to Rangers and PSV.

Rangers and PSV are in the 'League Path', along with Braga and Panathinaikos, with Rangers being seeded and PSV not seeded. The only other team Rangers could have played at this stage was Panathinaikos. Rangers and the three others are in the league path because they didn't win their domestic league last season.

The other path - where Haifa, Young Boys, Athens, Antwerp, Czestochowa, Copenhagen, Galatasaray and Molde are - is the 'Champions Path' for teams who won their domestic league last season.

Does leave things somewhat imbalanced, I agree, but gives a greater chance for actual league winners.

Cheers Duty, how refreshing to get a knowledgeable answer rather than the dull, snide insults surrounding Rangers that Super normally dumps into the conversation.

Most would imagine PSV are more likely to progress, and most current buns would take a Europa run over an inevitable CL pasting X6.

[Soul Requiem]

Most would imagine PSV are more likely to progress, and most current buns would take a Europa run over an inevitable CL pasting X6.

Football is built upon money, every team if given the choice would take going into the Champions League over the Europa League.

Champions League Prize Money

Winner €20m
Runner-up €15.5m
Semifinalists €12.5m
Quarterfinalists €10.6m
Round of 16 €9.6m
Group-stage wins €2.8m
Group-stage draws €930k
Reaching group stage €15.64m

Europe League Prize Money

Qualified to group stage: €3,630,000
Match won in group stage: €630,000
Match drawn in group stage: €210,000
1st in group stage: €1,100,000
2nd in group stage: €550,000
Knockout round play-offs: €500,000
Round of 16: €1,200,000
Quarter-final: €1,800,000
Semi-final: €2,800,000
Runner-up: €4,600,000
Champion: €8,600,000

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

I made it pretty clear I made the claim based on the available evidence.

I assume other people just assume the jury were provided more convincing evidence that is not yet in the public domain?

OK. What you're saying is that you haven't a properly informed opinion, but have held forth on a demonstrably incomplete set of evidence. I have to ask if that is commensurate with the 'scientific method' you espouse so ardently...

I drew no conclusion based on an incomplete set of evidence, what else would you suggest?

Not being convinced she is guilty isn't a claim.

Yes, I'm afraid you did draw a conclusion:

I'm not saying Lucy Letby is innocent but the publicly available (or at least what has made the news) evidence used to convict her is pretty weak.  I would hesitantly conclude it was an incompetently run department with some grievances that got out of hand at worst, based on the available evidence.

Damned by your own post I'm afraid.

[McLaren]

This is painful. That is clearly a separate "claim" than one about her guilt.

And "hesitantly" should be a major clue as to how strongly I hold that belief.

The point still stands, on what I have read up on and the evidence I have seen, I am not convinced of her guilt. And if I have only seen incomplete evidence then it is even more sensible to withhold making a conclusion on her guilt. I really don't see an alternative rational move?

[super_realist]

Most would imagine PSV are more likely to progress, and most current buns would take a Europa run over an inevitable CL pasting X6.

Football is built upon money, every team if given the choice would take going into the Champions League over the Europa League.

Champions League Prize Money

Winner €20m
Runner-up €15.5m
Semifinalists €12.5m
Quarterfinalists €10.6m
Round of 16 €9.6m
Group-stage wins €2.8m
Group-stage draws €930k
Reaching group stage €15.64m

Europe League Prize Money

Qualified to group stage: €3,630,000
Match won in group stage: €630,000
Match drawn in group stage: €210,000
1st in group stage: €1,100,000
2nd in group stage: €550,000
Knockout round play-offs: €500,000
Round of 16: €1,200,000
Quarter-final: €1,800,000
Semi-final: €2,800,000
Runner-up: €4,600,000
Champion: €8,600,000

Which run did Rangers more good? Being confirmed as  the worst team in Champions League history, or very nearly winning their forst European trophy since the early 1970's. 
I guarantee every single football fan would take the latter, regardless of Champions League money. 

Last year's CL has damaged Celtic and Rangers as clubs capable of drawing real talent. They are on a gamble situation of buying players and hoping they can sell them on in two years. Compare that to ONeiill, Smith, Lennon and even Strachan teams.

I sincerely doubt most fans of a team do poorly equipped for the CL would take getting r***d 6x versus a chance of a decent run in Europa

[super_realist]

This is painful. That is clearly a separate "claim" than one about her guilt.

And "hesitantly" should be a major clue as to how strongly I hold that belief.

The point still stands, on what I have read up on and the evidence I have seen, I am not convinced of her guilt. And if I have only seen incomplete evidence then it is even more sensible to withhold making a conclusion on her guilt. I really don't see an alternative rational move?

Good job you don't work in law Mac.

[Duty281]

This is painful. That is clearly a separate "claim" than one about her guilt.

And "hesitantly" should be a major clue as to how strongly I hold that belief.

The point still stands, on what I have read up on and the evidence I have seen, I am not convinced of her guilt. And if I have only seen incomplete evidence then it is even more sensible to withhold making a conclusion on her guilt. I really don't see an alternative rational move?

Your alternative rational move would be to actually read up on the evidence, which is available, although you continually insist it isn't and have criticised the court reporting, even though it has been excellent.

You also definitively claimed that Letby would be cleared in the next decade or so.

[JAS]

Most would imagine PSV are more likely to progress, and most current buns would take a Europa run over an inevitable CL pasting X6.

Football is built upon money, every team if given the choice would take going into the Champions League over the Europa League.

Champions League Prize Money

Winner €20m
Runner-up €15.5m
Semifinalists €12.5m
Quarterfinalists €10.6m
Round of 16 €9.6m
Group-stage wins €2.8m
Group-stage draws €930k
Reaching group stage €15.64m

Europe League Prize Money

Qualified to group stage: €3,630,000
Match won in group stage: €630,000
Match drawn in group stage: €210,000
1st in group stage: €1,100,000
2nd in group stage: €550,000
Knockout round play-offs: €500,000
Round of 16: €1,200,000
Quarter-final: €1,800,000
Semi-final: €2,800,000
Runner-up: €4,600,000
Champion: €8,600,000

Which run did Rangers more good? Being confirmed as  the worst team in Champions League history, or very nearly winning their forst European trophy since the early 1970's. 
I guarantee every single football fan would take the latter, regardless of Champions League money. 

Last year's CL has damaged Celtic and Rangers as clubs capable of drawing real talent. They are on a gamble situation of buying players and hoping they can sell them on in two years. Compare that to ONeiill, Smith, Lennon and even Strachan teams.

I sincerely doubt most fans of a team do poorly equipped for the CL would take getting r***d 6x versus a chance of a decent run in Europa

I can see your thinking and there is some validity in it but I'd still take a pop at CL football over EL (lets face it they cant be as bad as last year - and they won't be - especially from Pot 3 rather than Pot 4). Yes Rangers made a fair whack 2 years ago, the defeat from Malmo at this stage in the CL was gutting at the time but in retrospect they ended up with more cash and more coefficient points than if they'd beat Malmo and got into the CL. Something went badly wrong in the dressing room last year and it cost GvB his job. That was then and this is now. The ideal would be beating PSV, getting to the group stage and getting 3rd place in group and dropping into EL after xmas.

You can trot out how rank they were in the group stage last year all you like (and of course they were) but remember they beat PSV at the same stage last year to get there and that same PSV side went on to knock Arsenal out of the EL. So they were no mugs then and they look to have improved. I wouldn't be as gutted as I was 2 years ago if they don't make it next week as the EL may well help them rebuild a bit of confidence.

[super_realist]

Most would imagine PSV are more likely to progress, and most current buns would take a Europa run over an inevitable CL pasting X6.

Football is built upon money, every team if given the choice would take going into the Champions League over the Europa League.

Champions League Prize Money

Winner €20m
Runner-up €15.5m
Semifinalists €12.5m
Quarterfinalists €10.6m
Round of 16 €9.6m
Group-stage wins €2.8m
Group-stage draws €930k
Reaching group stage €15.64m

Europe League Prize Money

Qualified to group stage: €3,630,000
Match won in group stage: €630,000
Match drawn in group stage: €210,000
1st in group stage: €1,100,000
2nd in group stage: €550,000
Knockout round play-offs: €500,000
Round of 16: €1,200,000
Quarter-final: €1,800,000
Semi-final: €2,800,000
Runner-up: €4,600,000
Champion: €8,600,000

Which run did Rangers more good? Being confirmed as  the worst team in Champions League history, or very nearly winning their forst European trophy since the early 1970's. 
I guarantee every single football fan would take the latter, regardless of Champions League money. 

Last year's CL has damaged Celtic and Rangers as clubs capable of drawing real talent. They are on a gamble situation of buying players and hoping they can sell them on in two years. Compare that to ONeiill, Smith, Lennon and even Strachan teams.

I sincerely doubt most fans of a team do poorly equipped for the CL would take getting r***d 6x versus a chance of a decent run in Europa

I can see your thinking and there is some validity in it but I'd still take a pop at CL football over EL (lets face it they cant be as bad as last year - and they won't be - especially from Pot 3 rather than Pot 4). Yes Rangers made a fair whack 2 years ago, the defeat from Malmo at this stage in the CL was gutting at the time but in retrospect they ended up with more cash and more coefficient points than if they'd beat Malmo and got into the CL. Something went badly wrong in the dressing room last year and it cost GvB his job. That was then and this is now. The ideal would be beating PSV, getting to the group stage and getting 3rd place in group and dropping into EL after xmas.

You can trot out how rank they were in the group stage last year all you like (and of course they were) but remember they beat PSV at the same stage last year to get there and that same PSV side went on to knock Arsenal out of the EL. So they were no mugs then and they look to have improved. I wouldn't be as gutted as I was 2 years ago if they don't make it next week as the EL may well help them rebuild a bit of confidence.

Do you seriously think being in pot 3 will turn them into a pot 3 quality team? I think that's wishful thinking. I can't see anything other than yet another CL disaster, which is really not so much a disaster as a reckoning for fans as to the true level. Celtic weren't much better and we're woefully exposed as lightweight and lacking fitness.

[ralphjohn69]

Most would imagine PSV are more likely to progress, and most current buns would take a Europa run over an inevitable CL pasting X6.

Football is built upon money, every team if given the choice would take going into the Champions League over the Europa League.

Champions League Prize Money

Winner €20m
Runner-up €15.5m
Semifinalists €12.5m
Quarterfinalists €10.6m
Round of 16 €9.6m
Group-stage wins €2.8m
Group-stage draws €930k
Reaching group stage €15.64m

Europe League Prize Money

Qualified to group stage: €3,630,000
Match won in group stage: €630,000
Match drawn in group stage: €210,000
1st in group stage: €1,100,000
2nd in group stage: €550,000
Knockout round play-offs: €500,000
Round of 16: €1,200,000
Quarter-final: €1,800,000
Semi-final: €2,800,000
Runner-up: €4,600,000
Champion: €8,600,000

Which run did Rangers more good? Being confirmed as  the worst team in Champions League history, or very nearly winning their forst European trophy since the early 1970's. 
I guarantee every single football fan would take the latter, regardless of Champions League money. 

Last year's CL has damaged Celtic and Rangers as clubs capable of drawing real talent. They are on a gamble situation of buying players and hoping they can sell them on in two years. Compare that to ONeiill, Smith, Lennon and even Strachan teams.

I sincerely doubt most fans of a team do poorly equipped for the CL would take getting r***d 6x versus a chance of a decent run in Europa

I can see your thinking and there is some validity in it but I'd still take a pop at CL football over EL (lets face it they cant be as bad as last year - and they won't be - especially from Pot 3 rather than Pot 4). Yes Rangers made a fair whack 2 years ago, the defeat from Malmo at this stage in the CL was gutting at the time but in retrospect they ended up with more cash and more coefficient points than if they'd beat Malmo and got into the CL. Something went badly wrong in the dressing room last year and it cost GvB his job. That was then and this is now. The ideal would be beating PSV, getting to the group stage and getting 3rd place in group and dropping into EL after xmas.

You can trot out how rank they were in the group stage last year all you like (and of course they were) but remember they beat PSV at the same stage last year to get there and that same PSV side went on to knock Arsenal out of the EL. So they were no mugs then and they look to have improved. I wouldn't be as gutted as I was 2 years ago if they don't make it next week as the EL may well help them rebuild a bit of confidence.

Do you seriously think being in pot 3 will turn them into a pot 3 quality team? I think that's wishful thinking. I can't see anything other than yet another CL disaster, which is really not so much a disaster as a reckoning for fans as to the true level. Celtic weren't much better and we're woefully exposed as lightweight and lacking fitness.

The point is if they do get through, and are in Pot 3, they then guarantee drawing a Pot 4 team, which will probably give them a better chance of finishing 3rd in the group.

[super_realist]

If your aunty had balls she'd be your uncle. Rangers and Celtic have virtually zero chance of finishing top 2. 
I haven't seen anything in their transfers which elevate them from being tje worst team in Champions League history to one which could finish third.

[JAS]

Most would imagine PSV are more likely to progress, and most current buns would take a Europa run over an inevitable CL pasting X6.

Football is built upon money, every team if given the choice would take going into the Champions League over the Europa League.

Champions League Prize Money

Winner €20m
Runner-up €15.5m
Semifinalists €12.5m
Quarterfinalists €10.6m
Round of 16 €9.6m
Group-stage wins €2.8m
Group-stage draws €930k
Reaching group stage €15.64m

Europe League Prize Money

Qualified to group stage: €3,630,000
Match won in group stage: €630,000
Match drawn in group stage: €210,000
1st in group stage: €1,100,000
2nd in group stage: €550,000
Knockout round play-offs: €500,000
Round of 16: €1,200,000
Quarter-final: €1,800,000
Semi-final: €2,800,000
Runner-up: €4,600,000
Champion: €8,600,000

Which run did Rangers more good? Being confirmed as  the worst team in Champions League history, or very nearly winning their forst European trophy since the early 1970's. 
I guarantee every single football fan would take the latter, regardless of Champions League money. 

Last year's CL has damaged Celtic and Rangers as clubs capable of drawing real talent. They are on a gamble situation of buying players and hoping they can sell them on in two years. Compare that to ONeiill, Smith, Lennon and even Strachan teams.

I sincerely doubt most fans of a team do poorly equipped for the CL would take getting r***d 6x versus a chance of a decent run in Europa

I can see your thinking and there is some validity in it but I'd still take a pop at CL football over EL (lets face it they cant be as bad as last year - and they won't be - especially from Pot 3 rather than Pot 4). Yes Rangers made a fair whack 2 years ago, the defeat from Malmo at this stage in the CL was gutting at the time but in retrospect they ended up with more cash and more coefficient points than if they'd beat Malmo and got into the CL. Something went badly wrong in the dressing room last year and it cost GvB his job. That was then and this is now. The ideal would be beating PSV, getting to the group stage and getting 3rd place in group and dropping into EL after xmas.

You can trot out how rank they were in the group stage last year all you like (and of course they were) but remember they beat PSV at the same stage last year to get there and that same PSV side went on to knock Arsenal out of the EL. So they were no mugs then and they look to have improved. I wouldn't be as gutted as I was 2 years ago if they don't make it next week as the EL may well help them rebuild a bit of confidence.

Do you seriously think being in pot 3 will turn them into a pot 3 quality team? I think that's wishful thinking. I can't see anything other than yet another CL disaster, which is really not so much a disaster as a reckoning for fans as to the true level. Celtic weren't much better and we're woefully exposed as lightweight and lacking fitness.

The point is if they do get through, and are in Pot 3, they then guarantee drawing a Pot 4 team, which will probably give them a better chance of finishing 3rd in the group.

Super is allergic to logic like that Ralph. Is it yourself who has a soft spot for Hearts? That was a brilliant result for them (and Scottish football last week). So important for Jock teams to beat Norwegian, Turkish, Austrian, Swiss and Serb teams as those are the countries threatening our co-efficient ranking. Hope Hearts can prevail and get group stage again, hard to believe the Scottish kids are back at school now and all 5 clubs that qualified for Europe are still in!!

[super_realist]

It's not logic. Most pot 4 teams are no worse than Rangers. If Rangers were the worst ever pot 4 team last year, what makes them any better now?

[ralphjohn69]

Most would imagine PSV are more likely to progress, and most current buns would take a Europa run over an inevitable CL pasting X6.

Football is built upon money, every team if given the choice would take going into the Champions League over the Europa League.

Champions League Prize Money

Winner €20m
Runner-up €15.5m
Semifinalists €12.5m
Quarterfinalists €10.6m
Round of 16 €9.6m
Group-stage wins €2.8m
Group-stage draws €930k
Reaching group stage €15.64m

Europe League Prize Money

Qualified to group stage: €3,630,000
Match won in group stage: €630,000
Match drawn in group stage: €210,000
1st in group stage: €1,100,000
2nd in group stage: €550,000
Knockout round play-offs: €500,000
Round of 16: €1,200,000
Quarter-final: €1,800,000
Semi-final: €2,800,000
Runner-up: €4,600,000
Champion: €8,600,000

Which run did Rangers more good? Being confirmed as  the worst team in Champions League history, or very nearly winning their forst European trophy since the early 1970's. 
I guarantee every single football fan would take the latter, regardless of Champions League money. 

Last year's CL has damaged Celtic and Rangers as clubs capable of drawing real talent. They are on a gamble situation of buying players and hoping they can sell them on in two years. Compare that to ONeiill, Smith, Lennon and even Strachan teams.

I sincerely doubt most fans of a team do poorly equipped for the CL would take getting r***d 6x versus a chance of a decent run in Europa

I can see your thinking and there is some validity in it but I'd still take a pop at CL football over EL (lets face it they cant be as bad as last year - and they won't be - especially from Pot 3 rather than Pot 4). Yes Rangers made a fair whack 2 years ago, the defeat from Malmo at this stage in the CL was gutting at the time but in retrospect they ended up with more cash and more coefficient points than if they'd beat Malmo and got into the CL. Something went badly wrong in the dressing room last year and it cost GvB his job. That was then and this is now. The ideal would be beating PSV, getting to the group stage and getting 3rd place in group and dropping into EL after xmas.

You can trot out how rank they were in the group stage last year all you like (and of course they were) but remember they beat PSV at the same stage last year to get there and that same PSV side went on to knock Arsenal out of the EL. So they were no mugs then and they look to have improved. I wouldn't be as gutted as I was 2 years ago if they don't make it next week as the EL may well help them rebuild a bit of confidence.

Do you seriously think being in pot 3 will turn them into a pot 3 quality team? I think that's wishful thinking. I can't see anything other than yet another CL disaster, which is really not so much a disaster as a reckoning for fans as to the true level. Celtic weren't much better and we're woefully exposed as lightweight and lacking fitness.

The point is if they do get through, and are in Pot 3, they then guarantee drawing a Pot 4 team, which will probably give them a better chance of finishing 3rd in the group.

Super is allergic to logic like that Ralph. Is it yourself who has a soft spot for Hearts? That was a brilliant result for them (and Scottish football last week). So important for Jock teams to beat Norwegian, Turkish, Austrian, Swiss and Serb teams as those are the countries threatening our co-efficient ranking. Hope Hearts can prevail and get group stage again, hard to believe the Scottish kids are back at school now and all 5 clubs that qualified for Europe are still in!!

Na, I'm an Aberdeen fan, we also have a big qualifier this week, especially given the figures quoted above. Not usually got much time for Hearts but like to see all Scottish teams doing well in Europe if possible, makes it more interesting if nothing else.

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Since too many posts were made, this topic has been divided automatically. You can find the rest of this topic here :
https://www.606v2.com/t71206-another-drive4show-anything-goes-thread

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