England post 2022 6Ns, Aus tour and beyond

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Hate to say it and I don't wish him injured but I'm glad Ewels not available!
If you're disappointed with Malins and Daly being selected, imagine how most of us feel about Youngs being there.
In fairness, Malins and Daly been superb this season but please give Radwan and Arundell a run.

I have just lost all hope in Jones management.

He seems incapable of putting together combinations that will work, he always plays something that would be good apart from one selection which spoils the whole concept.

majesticimperialman wrote:Thanks.

Pretty much games back to back from 1 until about 10. If you've not got anything else on then stock the fridge and kick back.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:I have just lost all hope in Jones management.

He seems incapable of putting together combinations that will work, he always plays something that would be good apart from one selection which spoils the whole concept.

I would question the use of 'just'. The last 3 years have been one carp selection after another.

Recwatcher16 wrote:A little disconcerted that Nowell is playing against NZ and Cokanasiga is missing due to injury.

Cokanasiga is on the bench for Bath on Sunday, when they play the Barbarians....

It's not unheard of for club and country to make different conclusions on a player being fit to play. May well be the England management ruled Joe out so he was released to his club. Then the Bath medical team felt he was fit.

It's a sticky area. I've heard a few stories around different interpretations of when players should return to contact training after significant injuries in this regard. We've seen international sides in recent years retain players rehabbing over a weekend during windows when they are able too. I imagine this may be part of that.

If you push a player too hard in a fitness test and they aggravate the injury you will get pelted for it. If you don't push a player hard enough and they pull up early then you get pelted for it. The other option is to postpone a strenuous test if you're 50/50 on whether the player is ready for it. If they are then released to their club it's up to a different medical team.

Rehabbing injuries isn't an exact science. Especially with injuries that aren't black and white hence "how ready" a player feels can come into it. Richie McCaw played 5 RWC games in 7 weeks with a fractured metatarsal in his foot. Not all players can do that though. A sticky area!

I don't think Eddie has ever been shy about picking a player who hasn't any conditioning, so if he doesn't think Joe is fit I would tend to agree with him. The issue is players are seen as meat and play when and where they are told to.

The selection for Saturday has a lot in common with the squad sent out for the semi-final against New Zealand (names in bold are in tomorrow's 23).

FB 15 Elliot Daly
RW 14 Anthony Watson
OC 13 Manu Tuilagi
IC 12 Owen Farrell (c)
LW 11 Jonny May
FH 10 George Ford
SH 9 Ben Youngs
N8 8 Billy Vunipola
OF 7 Sam Underhill
BF 6 Tom Curry
RL 5 Courtney Lawes
LL 4 Maro Itoje
TP 3 Kyle Sinckler
HK 2 Jamie George
LP 1 Mako Vunipola
Replacements:
HK 16 Luke Cowan-Dickie
PR 17 Joe Marler
PR 18 Dan Cole
LK 19 George Kruis
FL 20 Mark Wilson
SH 21 Willi Heinz
CE 22 Henry Slade
CE 23 Jonathan Joseph

12 of the 23 are named to play again, and the bench is a similar 5-3 split. Arguably, Genge, JVP and Steward are upgrades, though Mako, Youngs and Daly all had good games that day. Smith is seen as an upgrade at flyhalf, but will have to go some to match Ford's display.

We have a slower back three overall, and the locks are not as experienced. While the back row is physically similar to 2019, Simmonds and Underhill have different strengths. Simmonds, JVP and Smith potentially offering more pace close to set pieces and breakdowns.

Overall, it does look a bit like Jones is trying to recapture the balance England had, with a few new faces to freshen things up.

Well the next coach will not be Edwards. He's signed a contract with France after talks with England resulted in no offer being tabled.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:I have just lost all hope in Jones management.

He seems incapable of putting together combinations that will work, he always plays something that would be good apart from one selection which spoils the whole concept.

This.

Jones was terrific when he started. Exactly what we needed. But he has seemed to become increasingly stale and I am in general finding it ever harder to watch England play.

On the Rugby Paper podcast, Chris Robshaw is optimistic about England.

He wasn't unequivocally supportive of Jones. he said Itoje is one of the best locks in he world, so that's where he should be played. However, he did say that Jones often selects on the mix of skills he wants the team to have.

He touched on this with reference to Tom Curry. Curry hasn't hit the heights of the early part of his career, and some blame Jones for switching him to number eight. Robshaw thinks Jones recognized he had a backline with no real jackling threat, and had looked to compensate elsewhere. He doesn't believe Curry was being groomed as a starting number eight.

Can't help wondering ability at the breakdown is one reason why Nowell is in the squad.

Rugby Fan wrote:Can't help wondering ability at the breakdown is one reason why Nowell is in the squad.

Agree - I'm sure that is right.

Should be the game of the autumn.

Wow. New Zealand are likely to be angry after that.

The English rugby Union should issue a formal apology for that honking rendition of the NZ anthem. Was like they rolled out an old retired music teacher to try play the music for the first time on an out of tune piano.

Wasted turnover ball kicked away followed by stupid intercept ...

Now the ref giving fantasy knock-ons - gonna be a long evening

Nightmare start from JvP........Youngs rubbing off on him

Now the ref giving fantasy knock-ons - gonna be a long evening

French refs and knock-ons eh?

Well well eh?

All this field position and now an incorrect pen coming from a fantasy knock-on leads to a try - FFS why are the officials these days so useless?

7 points gifted and counting ...

Can we ask for someone to do a video?

Why was Genge punished for that scrum?

Whatever the ref is doing.....our defence is awful

Offside fair enough but why didn't he play advantage for a bit?

Geordie wrote:Why was Genge punished for that scrum?

Awful ref ...

Shambolic....terrible showing

So tmo intervenes in wrong ref decision in RWC final but doesn't today? Hmmm


Raynal wearing black shirt

Shambolic would be a step up

Genuinely don't think I've seen a worse 20 minutes from a referee at any level.

Thankfully someone else has seen the obvious neckroll. Also a shoulder to the head just before that.

England are pants but the ref is shocking too ... so far; invented a knock-on when England were in an attacking position, gave a scrum pen 100% wrong way and called a ball out when it wasn't ...

You can't put this on the ref....we've been awful

Duty281 wrote:Genuinely don't think I've seen a worse 20 minutes from a referee at any level.

Thankfully someone else has seen the obvious neckroll. Also a shoulder to the head just before that.

Don't forget the other French ref that didn't understand the laws around the knock-on etc ... close call as to which is worse

Sgt_Pooly wrote:You can't put this on the ref....we've been awful

I said England are pants but I can 100% call the ref out for obviously wrong or missed calls ... England being poor doesn't excuse him

Half of their points have come directly from his mistakes

Now NZ are pushing early in the scrum

Let off there for the missed touch kick

Another early push - ref clueless

Heaf wrote:Another early push - ref clueless

And was talking to the England front row about balance. Hilarious officiating.

Another stupid error by England - difficult to know who is worse, England or the ref ...

I think it might be England

No better sign of England's regression since the World Cup than with those awful 40 minutes. How many tackles have been missed?

Only positive is England are 'only' 14 points behind, and can still comeback into this one with an early score.

Heaf wrote:I think it might be England

It's definitely England. Shocking performance in such a complete way there's no simple we need to change X or Y.

Unfortunately it seems we're stuffed until after the RWC when we'll have to start all over again with a new coach ...

England poor, Raynal worse. NZ excellent.

Heaf wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:You can't put this on the ref....we've been awful

I said England are pants but I can 100% call the ref out for obviously wrong or missed calls ... England being poor doesn't excuse him

Wasn't directed at you in particular Heaf.

He made some errors for both sides but we're putting ourself in some terrible positions. Basic, stupid errors....defence is awful, attack isn't much better.

JVP needs to be hooked, he's out of his depth.

Heaf wrote:Another early push - ref clueless

apart from England clearly stepped back trying to buy a pen

Stop whining about the ref and open your other eye

Too many players who should be in this side are playing this weekend in the prem

TJ wrote:

Heaf wrote:Another early push - ref clueless

apart from England clearly stepped back trying to buy a pen

Stop whining about the ref and open your other eye

Err - I've said England are pants and probably worse than the ref.  England being bad doesn't mean the ref isn't too ...

JvP having a poor game. Almost be glad when Young's gets on.
Almost.