2022 FIFA World Cup

by Duty281 Mon 07 Nov 2022, 2:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

The strangest World Cup of them all will begin in Qatar in just a couple of weeks. The first World Cup (and surely not the last!) to be held in Arabia; the first World Cup not to take place in May, June or July; only the second World Cup to be hosted in Asia; and the last World Cup to be played with the 32-team format, as from 2026 the tournament will expand to 48 teams.

Free-scoring Brazil are, as usual, the bookmakers' favourites for the World Cup. It's been quite a barren run for the five-time winners - 20 years since they last won the tournament, and they've only made it past the quarter-finals once in the last four iterations. They were runners-up in last year's Copa America, but have since gone on an unbeaten run which has seen them cruise through qualification.

Argentina, the Copa America champions, are installed as the second favourites, in what will surely be Messi's last chance of World Cup glory. The Argentines are on a very long unbeaten run, having not experienced defeat in any fixture for over three years. Will Messi finally emulate Maradona and lead his side to their first World Cup in 36 years? Uruguay and Ecuador are the only other South American entrants; Colombia and Chile have missed out.

Turning to Europe, France are defending their second World Cup crown - they will be hoping it will go better than their first defence when they were dispatched in the group stage in 2002. On paper they still retain a strong side; in reality they're on a poor run of form, having been knocked out of the last Euros in the Last 16, and some key players will miss the World Cup through injury.

Europe, of course, has a wide range of potential winners extending beyond France. England, with an array of exciting attacking talent, will try to end all those years of hurt and misery, having come so close last year to breaking the duck. But they have also struggled in recent times, with Southgate struggling to get the best out of his creative talents. Germany and Spain both won the World Cup in the last decade, and are hoping to bounce back from disappointments in 2018. Belgium's golden generation has one last chance to deliver, as does Ronaldo for Portugal. The Dutch and the Danes will remain optimistic, and Wales are in it for the first time since 1958.

Or, perchance, for the very first time a winner outside of Europe and South America? African champions Senegal are likely leading this charge, with Mane and Koulibaly at the heart of their side, although no African nation has ever made the semi-finals of this competition. The North Americans are well represented with all three host nations of 2026 - Canada, USA and Mexico - and Costa Rica making an appearance, although you'll have to go back to 1930 for the last, and only, time a North American team made the semi-final stage.

Oceania have zero representation - unless you count Australia, but in footballing terms Australia are as Asian as Israel are European - and haven't done so since New Zealand's unbeaten run in 2010. The Asian continent hasn't done anything of note since South Korea in 2002, and their best hope this year probably comes from the South Koreans or Japanese, although hosts Qatar will be hoping to navigate themselves through a tricky group.

Um...come on, England?

Odds on the outright winners:

Odds on Golden Boot:

World Cup Schedule:

by Duty281 Tue 06 Dec 2022, 9:00 pm

6-1! That was quite something. Portugal may be giving the others something to think about with a superb attacking display. Ramos with one of the great hat-tricks and one of the great World Cup stories...especially if he fires Portugal to glory.

That's the end of the last 16. No World Cup for the next couple of days and only seven matches remaining (well actually eight if you count the pointless third-place play-off game which I'm amazed is still a thing).

by alfie Wed 07 Dec 2022, 12:24 pm

Be nice to get a few good nights sleep now...

Decent last 16. Five European , two South American and - unusually - an African , probably not the one most expected. Have to give Morocco credit for being defensively solid with just one goal against them in four matches ! Might need to step up further for Portugal but who knows ?

Suppose Brazil are going to have too much for Croatia but the other games are a bit of a knife edge I think. Hope Netherlands beat Argentina but I won't be placing bets ; and I will not dare jinx England by even speculating on their chance against France Smile

But IF they could get past the excellent French outfit , I would really love to see a semi against Portugal : last time that happened was a long time ago but it actually led on to a rather auspicious finish...

by Duty281 Wed 07 Dec 2022, 12:51 pm

I think Brazil and Portugal are pretty strong favourites for their games, although Croatia and Morocco have both developed a dangerous knack of finding a way through without being brilliant, or even good, which is worth consideration.

The other two games are tighter. I think the Dutch are favourites to beat Argentina, but there's always the chance that Argentina finally lift their game to a level that closer befits the potential they have, similar to how Portugal did last night. Although I doubt they'll be dropping Messi! I think it could be quite a dull game, unless there's an early goal, as the Dutch will be happy to sit back and rely on their three titans at centre-back, and Argentina will be wary of getting done on the counter, as the USA were.

And France-England. Well I think France are favourites no matter what, but they're only narrow favourites if England play two-centre backs, and strong favourites if England go with three. England have to trust their attacking options, aim to win the midfield battle, and give the French something to worry about, and they can only do that by playing a back-four.

If they sacrifice an attacker, such as Foden or Saka, to play a back-five then England will spend long parts of the game besieged against a French side that can score from virtually anywhere, plus they'll be exhausted by chasing the ball in the Qatari heat. It would also inhibit England's chances on the counter-attack, which is a great strength of theirs if the game is 0-0 or, even better, if England are ahead. We saw in the Italy game that England's counter-attack was severely limited by the back-five with no Saka and Walker playing as a centre-back. And if France took an early lead then the back-five doesn't lend itself to chasing the game, and we wouldn't see adjustments until at least the second half.

England's propensity for slow starts also worries me a bit. It's usually taken them at least 25-30 minutes to properly switch on, as it were. The Welsh game was a drag for the entire first half and Senegal nearly took an early lead. Mind you, the same thing about slow starts can be said about the French.

Wouldn't mind a semi-final against Portugal, but when I think of Portugal I only think of 2000, 2004 and 2006. Never good.

by Oakdene Wed 07 Dec 2022, 3:45 pm

It will be interesting to see how the extra time & penalties affect Croatia & Morocco. After Portugals performance last night it is hard to see Morocco being as strong as they were against Spain.

by GSC Wed 07 Dec 2022, 5:54 pm

Maybe Modric can roll back the years and produce one more vintage performance in a Croatia shirt. But in truth Croatia have been pretty poor throughout and largely dependent on Belgium and Japan's inability to convert some pretty glaring chances. Can't really see past a Brazil cruise.

Portugal had a cruise of their own, while Morocco spent 120 minutes watching Spain move it side to side in front of them. Would guess Portugal have too much going forward again but maybe not to the same degree as the last game.

Argentina Netherlands looks a bit of a stalemate to me. Argentina have been a bit too easy to set up for and Van Gaal tends to get it right at big tournaments. But equally the Netherlands are also pretty reliant on individual inspiration going forward. Have a feeling this might go all the way to penalties like the semi in 2014.

England France is a tie worthy of a final so someone can feel hard done by to be exiting at the quarters. Think England may have the better side on paper but the France attack Vs the England defense is the biggest mismatch. If Gareth is brave he can win this game, don't think we'll see 5 at the back but proactivity has been an issue

by Duty281 Wed 07 Dec 2022, 7:40 pm

It does seem a shame that England-France is coming at the QF stage, it should be a semi-final at the very least.

by Oakdene Thu 08 Dec 2022, 8:42 am

Duty281 wrote:It does seem a shame that England-France is coming at the QF stage, it should be a semi-final at the very least.

I think this will be the game of the tournament & could end up 4-3 or some silly scoreline.

by Duty281 Thu 08 Dec 2022, 11:27 am

I wouldn't be surprised if that does happen!

Sterling set to rejoin the England squad, but I guess with him being out of the loop for the last few days that he won't be starting v France.

by GSC Thu 08 Dec 2022, 11:39 am

I think the big thing for England is for as dangerous as the French front 4 are, they're not gonna press with anything like the intensity that the US and Senegal did. Should be able to avoid the issues playing out we encountered in that game

by GSC Thu 08 Dec 2022, 11:46 am

No surprises Luis Enrique leaves Spain. They've got a talented group of players coming through but the ethos was just all wrong

by Duty281 Thu 08 Dec 2022, 1:47 pm

Yes, the front four for France have very little defensive workrate and, in general, the French pressing has been lacklustre in this tournament, which we saw most obviously during the first 15 minutes of the Australia game.

A lot of talk about England's defence, but one team in this match-up has kept three clean sheets in a row and the other has conceded in every single game so far.

Fingers tightly crossed that Southgate plays a back four. But with no Ben White there's no concrete leaks!

by Jimmy Moz Thu 08 Dec 2022, 8:02 pm

I'll be passionately cheering on France but I do fancy England to beat them

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 12:02 am

Ben White returned home from England's World Cup camp following a alleged bust-up with assistant boss Steve Holland. White left the Three Lions' Al Wakrah training base in Qatar last week to go back to London, with the FA citing personal reasons. It's understood the Arsenal defender became unhappy in the England camp and struggled to mix with his fellow team-mates. And the final straw came when he had a fall out with Gareth Southgate's No2 Holland in front of the rest of the squad.

Claims the Daily Star...

by alfie Fri 09 Dec 2022, 5:50 am

Duty281 wrote:Ben White returned home from England's World Cup camp following a alleged bust-up with assistant boss Steve Holland. White left the Three Lions' Al Wakrah training base in Qatar last week to go back to London, with the FA citing personal reasons. It's understood the Arsenal defender became unhappy in the England camp and struggled to mix with his fellow team-mates. And the final straw came when he had a fall out with Gareth Southgate's No2 Holland in front of the rest of the squad.

Claims the Daily Star...

Unwanted distraction ? At least with him gone home the squad can hopefully forget about it and just get on with the job.

by GSC Fri 09 Dec 2022, 10:24 am

Does come to a short end after the group stages.
Quarters today/tomorrow
Semis Tues/Wed
Final on Sunday

Also the third place playoff that still exists for some reason on saturday

by Oakdene Fri 09 Dec 2022, 10:39 am

Duty281 wrote:Ben White returned home from England's World Cup camp following a alleged bust-up with assistant boss Steve Holland. White left the Three Lions' Al Wakrah training base in Qatar last week to go back to London, with the FA citing personal reasons. It's understood the Arsenal defender became unhappy in the England camp and struggled to mix with his fellow team-mates. And the final straw came when he had a fall out with Gareth Southgate's No2 Holland in front of the rest of the squad.

Claims the Daily Star...

It must be tough going to a world cup knowing that you're not likely to play unless there's injuries. For some reason, I can imagine parts of the England squad to be quite cliquey.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 09 Dec 2022, 10:50 am

GSC wrote:I think the big thing for England is for as dangerous as the French front 4 are, they're not gonna press with anything like the intensity that the US and Senegal did. Should be able to avoid the issues playing out we encountered in that game

That's quite an assumption to make, isn't it? Deschamps is no mug, he'll have noted that shakiness, and he'll know his side is more likely to be able to capitalise on it. But it's sort of moot if England play a different formation.

An early goal for either side would be huge. I can't help thinking that it's a mixed blessing that England haven't conceded any meaningful goals in the tournament so far. How do they react to going a goal down?

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 11:25 am

Gareth Southgate will tell his England team to be bold and attack France in a move that may silence his critics.

In what some will see as a change of approach against top-class opposition, Southgate wants his players to impose themselves on the world champions. That would suggest Southgate may stick with a back four, having used five defenders in past knockout games against Italy, Germany and Croatia.

Such an approach would be popular with Southgate’s critics, who have accused him of being negative against top opposition, and his squad, some of whom have hinted they want to stick with a back four.

Kyle Walker said England had been able to keep possession better and attack teams with a four-man defence, while Kalvin Phillips agreed with Declan Rice that an extra midfielder could be key.

“The final we played in the Euros, any game when you’re outnumbered in the middle, it’s a lot more difficult,” said Phillips. “Regardless of whether you win or lose, you come off the pitch knowing it’s been difficult.

“So, I think we would go to match them up, play man-to-man in midfield, and if they beat us then at least we know we’ve tried our best to fight against them man v man. My initial reaction would be to match them up and get the same amount of bodies in midfield.”

Mustn't get too hopeful.

by Oakdene Fri 09 Dec 2022, 11:32 am

I think, & I am happy to be corrected, that most England fans would rather go out losing 3-2 than going out to a 1-0 defeat.

Have a go!

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 11:47 am

Yes, Croatia and Italy were tame exits as Southgate was terrified.

If England go 1-0 up v the Frogs it's imperative England don't try to sit on that lead.

by GSC Fri 09 Dec 2022, 11:55 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
GSC wrote:I think the big thing for England is for as dangerous as the French front 4 are, they're not gonna press with anything like the intensity that the US and Senegal did. Should be able to avoid the issues playing out we encountered in that game

That's quite an assumption to make, isn't it? Deschamps is no mug, he'll have noted that shakiness, and he'll know his side is more likely to be able to capitalise on it. But it's sort of moot if England play a different formation.

An early goal for either side would be huge. I can't help thinking that it's a mixed blessing that England haven't conceded any meaningful goals in the tournament so far. How do they react to going a goal down?

Maybe. Not sure their attack has too much interest in launching an intense press either way

by dummy_half Fri 09 Dec 2022, 11:56 am

Duty281 wrote:Yes, Croatia and Italy were tame exits as Southgate was terrified.

If England go 1-0 up v the Frogs it's imperative England don't try to sit on that lead.

While I don't always agree with Duty and his opinions on Southgate, I absolutely agree with this. We can sit back and defend if we're 3-0 up (obviously won't happen), but we need to remember that the best way of stopping the opponents putting your defence under pressure is to kepp them under pressure at the other end. Not quite 'the best form of defence is attack', but certainly remembering that we have to have a way out from the back when we have the ball, rather than just giving it back and coming under waves of pressure..

by **Pal Joey** Fri 09 Dec 2022, 11:59 am

Duty281 wrote:Yes, Croatia and Italy were tame exits as Southgate was terrified.

If England go 1-0 up v the Frogs it's imperative England don't try to sit on that lead.

Indeed. They wouldn't want to do that.

There's always a danger the Frogs might find their legs again and attempt to jump back into some sort of great escape scenario as the clock ticks down.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 09 Dec 2022, 12:15 pm

GSC wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
GSC wrote:I think the big thing for England is for as dangerous as the French front 4 are, they're not gonna press with anything like the intensity that the US and Senegal did. Should be able to avoid the issues playing out we encountered in that game

That's quite an assumption to make, isn't it? Deschamps is no mug, he'll have noted that shakiness, and he'll know his side is more likely to be able to capitalise on it. But it's sort of moot if England play a different formation.

An early goal for either side would be huge. I can't help thinking that it's a mixed blessing that England haven't conceded any meaningful goals in the tournament so far. How do they react to going a goal down?

Maybe. Not sure their attack has too much interest in launching an intense press either way

I think it's less about what their natural inclination is, and more about what they're sent out to do. But we'll find out soon enough!

by dummy_half Fri 09 Dec 2022, 12:40 pm

Certainly, the England v France and Netherlands v Argentina quarters feel the more interesting and competitive.

If France were at full strength, with Pogba and Kante in midfield, Benzema up front, I'd have them comfortably favourites, and obviously with Mbappe they have probably the best player on the pitch, but I think it's close to a 50/50 game - whoever plays well on the day will be the difference.

by Oakdene Fri 09 Dec 2022, 12:42 pm

dummy_half wrote:Certainly, the England v France and Netherlands v Argentina quarters feel the more interesting and competitive.

If France were at full strength, with Pogba and Kante in midfield, Benzema up front, I'd have them comfortably favourites, and obviously with Mbappe they have probably the best player on the pitch, but I think it's close to a 50/50 game - whoever plays well on the day will be the difference.

I actually think France are better balanced without Benzema.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 09 Dec 2022, 12:45 pm

I fancy the Dutch tonight, and for the title. I'm a terrible tipster, but there you go.

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 1:16 pm

I fancy the Dutch tonight as well, not sure about for the title though! They'd certainly earn it the hard way if they pulled it off, with Argentina, Brazil and France/England the likely route. Interestingly they're a very wide 16/1 to win the World Cup, that will come down quite a bit if they topple the Argentines tonight.

by dummy_half Fri 09 Dec 2022, 1:46 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I fancy the Dutch tonight, and for the title. I'm a terrible tipster, but there you go.

Same as me - that would prompt a sound 2-0 defeat for the Netherlands if I'd said it.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 09 Dec 2022, 2:23 pm

Duty281 wrote:I fancy the Dutch tonight as well, not sure about for the title though! They'd certainly earn it the hard way if they pulled it off, with Argentina, Brazil and France/England the likely route. Interestingly they're a very wide 16/1 to win the World Cup, that will come down quite a bit if they topple the Argentines tonight.

I'm still not sold on Brazil. I'm sure I'm in a minority, but I've read a lot about how they play with a smile on their faces and that just tells me how relatively easy they've had it so far. They won't be dancing if they find themselves a goal down.

I have to admit it's really annoyed me the way presenters and pundits have blown smoke up their *rses. No one's disputing their history, but they're not demigods. There's a reverence for Brazil that I don't like.

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 2:26 pm

Good luck to the English referee Michael Oliver who's in charge of this one. Brazil unchanged, Croatia look to be packing the midfield. Will we get an upset to begin the QFs? Croatia have done nothing so far to indicate that they can cause a shock. Two interesting stats courtesy of the BBC:

Since beating Germany 2-0 in the 2002 final, Brazil have lost everyone of their past four World Cup knockout stage games against European nations.

And in a run going back to Euro 2008, seven of Croatia's last eight knockout stage games at major tournaments have gone to extra time and they have progressed from all four such games at the World Cup - three via penalty shootout.

Croatia would certainly take penalties if you offered it to them!

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 2:56 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I fancy the Dutch tonight as well, not sure about for the title though! They'd certainly earn it the hard way if they pulled it off, with Argentina, Brazil and France/England the likely route. Interestingly they're a very wide 16/1 to win the World Cup, that will come down quite a bit if they topple the Argentines tonight.

I'm still not sold on Brazil. I'm sure I'm in a minority, but I've read a lot about how they play with a smile on their faces and that just tells me how relatively easy they've had it so far. They won't be dancing if they find themselves a goal down.

I have to admit it's really annoyed me the way presenters and pundits have blown smoke up their *rses. No one's disputing their history, but they're not demigods. There's a reverence for Brazil that I don't like.

I do think Brazil tend to get overrated based purely on their name, and the last few WC teams we've seen from Brazil haven't been up to much, but this iteration is much closer to living up to the hype.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 09 Dec 2022, 3:01 pm

Yeah I'd agree with that.

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 3:59 pm

Sluggish start from Brazil, unable to pick up Croatia's roaming midfield when they're in possession and not able to do much with the ball themselves. Could be a nervy second half. Croatia were getting deeper towards the end.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 09 Dec 2022, 4:17 pm

Someone on 5 Live [Edit: it was Nedum Onuoha] made the perfectly sensible point that once you're at the last eight of the World Cup, you're not meant to have an easy game. Maybe some got carried away by the South Korea game, Croatia were never going to be that open at the back.

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 4:56 pm

Well we can all be surprised with Croatia taking it the distance again, indebted to some very good saves from their keeper. Paqueta perhaps having the best chance. Taking Vinicius off was a strange choice, I thought. Neymar doesn't look 100%.

Eight shots on target for Brazil. None for Croatia. But they won't care.

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 5:38 pm

Wow, it's going to penalties. Brazil looked to have won it after Neymar carved out a beautifully well-worked goal, but Croatia got up the other end and scored off a deflection, following a superb advantage by the referee.

Brazil deserve the win on the balance of play, but Croatia never go away. Is it the end for the tournament favourites?

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 5:51 pm

Football, bloody hell. What a shock. Croatia have only beaten Canada so far, but they're in the semi-finals after four superb penalties (especially the fourth one which was perfect!). Brazil set the tone by sending up an inexperienced player to go first and he missed.

Stunning stuff. Five dry tournaments in a row for Brazil, which I think is their longest barren run since first winning it in 1958. Croatia only one (blocked) shot on target in the 120 minutes but they won't care.

France and England tomorrow...the winner will be big favourites for the World Cup.

Oh and just realised Neymar didn't take one. Was he up for penalty five? You don't mess about the shootouts like that. You send your best player up first and so on.

by **Galted** Fri 09 Dec 2022, 6:07 pm

by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 09 Dec 2022, 6:13 pm

Duty281 wrote:

France and England tomorrow...the winner will be big favourites for the World Cup.

I'm currently in France visiting my mate. We are going to a bar to watch the game tomorrow.

I may not get out alive to come back and argue about cricket with you, Duty, depending on how the evening goes.

by GSC Fri 09 Dec 2022, 6:17 pm

And there go the favourites

.

Croatia untouchable on pens and keep doing just enough to get there.

by **Galted** Fri 09 Dec 2022, 6:25 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Duty281 wrote:

France and England tomorrow...the winner will be big favourites for the World Cup.

I'm currently in France visiting my mate. We are going to a bar to watch the game tomorrow.

I may not get out alive to come back and argue about cricket with you, Duty, depending on how the evening goes.

Tell them that the English flag is just the French flag with a cross drawn on it if you get into any bother.

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 6:33 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Duty281 wrote:

France and England tomorrow...the winner will be big favourites for the World Cup.

I'm currently in France visiting my mate. We are going to a bar to watch the game tomorrow.

I may not get out alive to come back and argue about cricket with you, Duty, depending on how the evening goes.

Don't worry, Tino, I won't tell your other half.

Remember, if it kicks off, the French will surrender in time-honoured fashion.

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 6:34 pm

GSC wrote:And there go the favourites .

Croatia untouchable on pens and keep doing just enough to get there.

They won't be scared of the Netherlands or Argentina in the next round, that's for sure.

by GSC Fri 09 Dec 2022, 6:45 pm

And rightfully so when you put this Brazil team out. Happily underdogs from here on out

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 6:55 pm

I just think that if England win tomorrow they'll actually go on to win the World Cup, and it's very, very dangerous to get one's hopes up like this. I'm not frightened of any team left in this competition other than the French.

It's a bit like the game v Argentina in '86, or Brazil in 2002. Both quarter-final games, both narrowly lost by England, but if England had won either/both of those games then they'd have probably won the World Cup in those years. And West Germany 1990. Though that was a semi-final the same principle applies, and England were even closer to winning that one.

Can England do it tomorrow? History says no.

by Jimmy Moz Fri 09 Dec 2022, 7:04 pm

I've said it before. I really think and hope the world cup winner will be from a European Union country.

by **Galted** Fri 09 Dec 2022, 7:52 pm

Jimmy Moz wrote:I've said it before. I really think and hope the world cup winner will be from a European Union country.

I hope it'll be a country whose currency begins with 'p'.

by Duty281 Fri 09 Dec 2022, 8:37 pm

Argentina heading through, a sublime pass from Messi and a daft error from Dumfries leading to a 2-0 lead.

Incredibly flat performance from the Dutch, they've mustered one shot all game.

by GSC Fri 09 Dec 2022, 9:06 pm

If all el

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