2022 FIFA World Cup

by Duty281 Mon 07 Nov 2022, 2:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

The strangest World Cup of them all will begin in Qatar in just a couple of weeks. The first World Cup (and surely not the last!) to be held in Arabia; the first World Cup not to take place in May, June or July; only the second World Cup to be hosted in Asia; and the last World Cup to be played with the 32-team format, as from 2026 the tournament will expand to 48 teams.

Free-scoring Brazil are, as usual, the bookmakers' favourites for the World Cup. It's been quite a barren run for the five-time winners - 20 years since they last won the tournament, and they've only made it past the quarter-finals once in the last four iterations. They were runners-up in last year's Copa America, but have since gone on an unbeaten run which has seen them cruise through qualification.

Argentina, the Copa America champions, are installed as the second favourites, in what will surely be Messi's last chance of World Cup glory. The Argentines are on a very long unbeaten run, having not experienced defeat in any fixture for over three years. Will Messi finally emulate Maradona and lead his side to their first World Cup in 36 years? Uruguay and Ecuador are the only other South American entrants; Colombia and Chile have missed out.

Turning to Europe, France are defending their second World Cup crown - they will be hoping it will go better than their first defence when they were dispatched in the group stage in 2002. On paper they still retain a strong side; in reality they're on a poor run of form, having been knocked out of the last Euros in the Last 16, and some key players will miss the World Cup through injury.

Europe, of course, has a wide range of potential winners extending beyond France. England, with an array of exciting attacking talent, will try to end all those years of hurt and misery, having come so close last year to breaking the duck. But they have also struggled in recent times, with Southgate struggling to get the best out of his creative talents. Germany and Spain both won the World Cup in the last decade, and are hoping to bounce back from disappointments in 2018. Belgium's golden generation has one last chance to deliver, as does Ronaldo for Portugal. The Dutch and the Danes will remain optimistic, and Wales are in it for the first time since 1958.

Or, perchance, for the very first time a winner outside of Europe and South America? African champions Senegal are likely leading this charge, with Mane and Koulibaly at the heart of their side, although no African nation has ever made the semi-finals of this competition. The North Americans are well represented with all three host nations of 2026 - Canada, USA and Mexico - and Costa Rica making an appearance, although you'll have to go back to 1930 for the last, and only, time a North American team made the semi-final stage.

Oceania have zero representation - unless you count Australia, but in footballing terms Australia are as Asian as Israel are European - and haven't done so since New Zealand's unbeaten run in 2010. The Asian continent hasn't done anything of note since South Korea in 2002, and their best hope this year probably comes from the South Koreans or Japanese, although hosts Qatar will be hoping to navigate themselves through a tricky group.

Um...come on, England?

Odds on the outright winners:

Odds on Golden Boot:

World Cup Schedule:

by GSC Sat 10 Dec 2022, 7:59 pm

Can't really say definitively the key contact is in the area. Unlucky maybe? But kinda is what it is

The foul on Saka for the goal isnt debatable though

by Duty281 Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:00 pm

England getting completely done in here. A world-class strike and completely incompetent officiating. A clear foul on Saka in the lead-up to the French goal, he's since been given two softer fouls, and a clear takedown of Kane in the penalty area. Still, England are used to being cheated at major tournaments.

On the actual football, I think France are affording England too much respect and sitting too deep since the goal, a bit like how England usually setup after scoring against quality opposition. Foden was marked out of the game initially, but he's since moved to the centre and is getting more joy. I think Saka needs to come off for Rashford. Saka is looking for the safe option too often. A few times he's had a chance to run at Hernandez but has elected to take the safe sideways pass. Kane is looking sharp, forced a couple of saves from Lloris, and I fancy him to score should he get the ball in a promising position.

Main worry has been on the French counter, with England pushing a few too many forward. Henderson is getting very far up the field and has been caught in possession a couple of times. It's him and Saka doubling up on the right, with Walker hanging back, but it should be the other way round. A quick French break will see England exposed, ala Germany 2010. England are also transitioning the ball too slowly from the back to attack, a theme through the tournament, and someone needs to come deep, either Bellingham or Foden, to aid that transition.

Mbappe has been shackled well by Walker, but drifting to the centre no one is picking him up and Rice isn't in the same class. Griezmann is aiding France at every stage of their play, again no one picking him up, and he's dictating play. I'm worried about Shaw's positioning on the left if Dembele gets him in a 1 v 1.

England can get back into this, but they have to score next. Gareth needs to make the right changes if necessary.

by Jimmy Moz Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:01 pm

Close game. Hoping France get a second now to maybe finish the game off. England look far from out of it though

by westisbest Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:03 pm

Thought the one on Kane(should have been a free kick) was more of a foul than the one on Sako.

by Lowlandbrit Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:05 pm

Still a bit weird seeing an England side where (nearly) everyone is so comfortable and slick on the ball.
Don't get why they didn't just immediately ask the ref to look at a replay of the (no)penalty; probably would have been quicker, and easier to understand for viewers.

by alfie Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:12 pm

This time it is a penalty !

by alfie Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:14 pm

by Duty281 Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:15 pm

Yes! First time we see Saka with his head up, nice 1-2, and he wins a penalty.

Come on, England.

by Duty281 Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:17 pm

Rabiot nearly straight away gets France's second. Maguire about 30 yards out of position.

by Scottrf Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:23 pm

Duty281 wrote:I think Saka needs to come off for Rashford.

by Duty281 Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:25 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I think Saka needs to come off for Rashford.

Not now he doesn't!

by Scottrf Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:26 pm

Don’t want to jinx but been the much better team past the first 15 minutes. Still exposed on the counter, and don’t know what the ref is looking at. He’s trying to be light touch but it’s street football reffing at times.

by GSC Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:27 pm

Biggest game of the tournament so far and the ref has lost the plot

by Scottrf Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I think Saka needs to come off for Rashford.

Not now he doesn't!

Maybe for that one

by alfie Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:38 pm

England really need to score on top of this period of domination . You'd think they have to soon...

Saka looking so dangerous every time he gets the ball.

But it only takes one error ! France the ones to score

by GSC Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:39 pm

by Duty281 Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:40 pm

Southgate goes to his favourites to rescue it.

by alfie Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:41 pm

Can't believe this refereeing ! How is that not a penalty ? Is he blind ?

by alfie Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:42 pm

VAR at least seems to have a rough idea what it's doing ...

by Duty281 Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:42 pm

What the feck is this referee on?!!!

by alfie Sat 10 Dec 2022, 8:47 pm

Aargh !!!

Oh Harry ... Was that the last chance ? Still time ; but that is going to hurt - hope it doesn't take all the wind out of their sails...

by alfie Sat 10 Dec 2022, 9:01 pm

Gutted.

by GSC Sat 10 Dec 2022, 9:02 pm

That is so so cruel. But the way games between top nations go they get decided by such fine margins. Can't fault the performance.

by westisbest Sat 10 Dec 2022, 9:04 pm

Harsh luck on England. Would have put your house on Kane scoring that second penalty.

France not great at the back, looked decent going forward, as did England though.

I feel if it had gone to extra time England would have won.

On course for a France Argentina final.

by JDizzle Sat 10 Dec 2022, 9:06 pm

England were good. Sometimes you play good teams and the rub of the green goes their way and they produce moments of quality. It happens, that’s knock out football.

Morocco all the way.

by GSC Sat 10 Dec 2022, 9:10 pm

Yeah

Just doesn't feel great when you're on the other side of it. But that was everything we asked for. Matched them up, went out to win the game and had them thoroughly rattled. But they're the world champions for a reason

by alfie Sat 10 Dec 2022, 9:11 pm

Heck of a game anyway. Would have loved another 30 minutes , quite apart from obviously wanting England to stay in.

Afraid Kane will get bashed to death by trolls on the net now. He'll be anguished enough anyway...feel for him. Not the first to miss a vital penalty but what a horrible end to his cup...

Pity this was only a QF. Was worthy of a semi at least. France to win the whole thing now ? I think so.

by Duty281 Sat 10 Dec 2022, 9:11 pm

Well done to France. We'll bracket it as another heroic defeat. Three par tournaments in a row for Southgate, beating the teams England should beat, but falling short against the step up in quality. It's normally ever thus. That England got closer here tonight that they did v Croatia and v Italy (in terms of performance) is scant consolation.

Problem was when England were on top they didn't really create enough. France didn't have to make too many ventures forward to score twice. They were clinical.

Surprised Kane missed his penalty and it'll haunt him for a while. He may still be around in 2026, certainly his game doesn't rely on pace so there's no reason why he can't go on as long as Giroud can, but it's not a given. Looks like he'll have a trophy-less career. I think the penalty was also to go past Rooney in the all-time list.

Changes from Southgate came a little late, not sure they would have made a difference though, but who knows?

Referee was atrocious, there's nothing more to say. Missed two clear penalties (one redeemed on VAR) and France's first goal should never have happened. It did influence the result, because England expended energy chasing the game, even if England did have a chance to level it late on.

That was the World Cup final by my reckoning, same as in 2002 or 1990. Should be nothing in France's way and they should be the first to defend their crown since 1962.

Southgate? I've been firmly Southgate out since sometime before the last Euros, however he has shown improvement in this tournament and I think it was England's best under his stewardship (even if, ironically, it was the worst in terms of where England exited; that's tournament draws for you, England would have made the final in the other half!). I think I'm open to him staying now and giving it a crack until 2024. That was probably England's best performance under his management.

Well done France, again. Griezmann ran the game for large segments, and England didn't get close enough to him for the cross for France's second.

by **Pal Joey** Sat 10 Dec 2022, 9:22 pm

All aboard the train, JD.

England fought hard and had a few good opportunities. Harry should have put that penalty away. I also thought the ref gave a bit more weight towards France which wasn't in the spirit of the game; nor make for a fair contest. Didn't like Mbappe's reaction to Kane's penalty miss. That was pretty poor behaviour and sends the wrong message to all the kids watching.

It's looking like an Argentina - France final. A battle of the most cynical and sneeringly distrustful teams given that Brazil is already out. I wouldn't mind seeing Croatia upsetting the apple cart again and producing another upset - even on penalties would be OK by me.

Morocco getting past France would be a massive upset but we can always dare to dream.

by Duty281 Sat 10 Dec 2022, 9:35 pm

Won't mind either Croatia or France winning it. That could be the final again, like 1986/1990 was the same final (with different winners). Hope it's not Argentina, horrible team. Morocco winning it would just be weird, like Greece in 2004.

But it really, really should be France from this point. They'll be huge favourites for the semi-final, and have nothing to worry about from either Argentina or Croatia. The French have overcome the toughest hurdle, it's all downhill from here now.

by GSC Sat 10 Dec 2022, 9:38 pm

I wouldn't rule out Argentina hurting them. Defensively France are certainly vulnerable and Messi might have one last performance in him.

by Duty281 Sat 10 Dec 2022, 9:52 pm

alfie wrote:Heck of a game anyway. Would have loved another 30 minutes , quite apart from obviously wanting England to stay in.

Afraid Kane will get bashed to death by trolls on the net now. He'll be anguished enough anyway...feel for him. Not the first to miss a vital penalty but what a horrible end to his cup...

Pity this was only a QF. Was worthy of a semi at least. France to win the whole thing now ? I think so.

Kane was already the most-abused England player on Twitter at this World Cup (not much press given to it, and there still won't be, because Kane's white).

by **Galted** Sat 10 Dec 2022, 10:19 pm

Decent performance, looked the better team bar the first fifteen and last fifteen minutes. Bit strange that they let Deschamps choose which substitutions England made though.

Hope the Argies win from here, but will be sad that Maradona's not around to witness it if they do.

by westisbest Sat 10 Dec 2022, 10:46 pm

France’s toughest test may yet be ahead of them, if they overcome Morocco and Argentina beat Croatia.

Should be a great final if so.
Anything else, probably wouldn’t have interest in.

by Duty281 Sat 10 Dec 2022, 11:34 pm

Just saw a few highlights of it back. Ultimately, England were too deep and didn't get close enough to Tchouameni for the first goal. A great strike all the same, reminiscent of Nasri's v England in 2012. As England rebuild to 2024 and 2026, the defence is going to be the key part of that rebuild. Most of the midfield and attack is fine and still young. That's a very exciting future. But England need quicker defenders so they don't have to play so deep, they need to move on from Maguire.

Walker was superb all game, probably his best performance in an England shirt. Maguire had such a good chance before Giroud's winner, and Saka was excellently denied by Hernandez after an excellent cross from Shaw. Rashford's free-kick at the end...so very close. Kane's penalty miss will go down the same as Lineker's miss v Argentina in 1986, Waddle hitting the post in 1990, and Gazza just not reaching the ball in 1996. Very, very close margins. Just England seem to be on the wrong end of them, continually.

Also thought Matterface's commentary line of 'wanted Gary Lineker, got Chris Waddle,' about Kane was a disgrace. Why he's ITV's lead commentator is a mystery in any case.

by Jimmy Moz Sun 11 Dec 2022, 3:33 am

Ultimately the three talking points for England are:

* The possible penalty that wasn't given
* The penalty that equalised
* The penalty that was missed

France won because they scored two good goals from open play despite being the second best team for a lot of the game. People like Rio Ferdinand and other English pundits and media big up players like Saka, Foden and Bellingham as being these amazing exciting players, and yes they are talented indeed.

However, as fast and as exciting as there are, they didn't score or really create many chances for Kane against decent opposition like the USA or France. Saka, Foden and Bellingham can rip the opposition apart all they want. If you ain't getting the goals, you ain't going to win. Maybe it is time for Southgate to step down if England are that serious about winning a trophy.

by GSC Sun 11 Dec 2022, 8:51 am

Not sure England and Southgate could've done much more performance wise honestly. Some individual mistakes sure but ours got punished while Upmanecano and Hernandez in particular got away with theirs. Fine margins eh?

Hope Harry can pick himself up like Buyako and Marcus had to do after last year. Brutal when you're the fall guy in these situations.

Thought Southgate might step down after this tournament though last night might change his mind. Certainly no credible English replacements currently available so would have to go abroad if he decided to step down I think.

Will be the end of the line for a few I suspect, Walker, Maguire and Henderson among them. Sterling no longer a guaranteed starter. Some obvious replacements, some less clear

by mountain man Sun 11 Dec 2022, 11:09 am

Oh well. Gutted.
How that was not a penalty on Kane or at least a foul. Officials this WC been very very poor.

Hope Kane doesn't get too much grief for penalty miss, at least won't get racist crap Rashford etc did. Trolls, the lowest of the low. Just take a look at BBC HYSs on the football. Horrendous.

I really hope Southgate stays, the players obviously respect him and want to play for him and England. Unlike so many managers before.

Also pleased for Mcguire, he had a good tournament and proved all doubters wrong.

Bellingham simply brilliant. A new world star for sure. Can no doubt name his price but I hope he doesn't join an English club. The bitterness and inter club rivalry here is despicable and if he has a run of bad games no doubt he'll be slagged off.

Bring on the Euros I say!

by Duty281 Sun 11 Dec 2022, 11:46 am

England did enough to win the game, I can't fault the overall performance. In that sense it was like the Italy game in 2014.

Playing Maguire throughout the competition was a mistake, as it meant England had to play deep and couldn't press high. Sure, Maguire was fine against the Championship opposition of Wales, but he lost Giroud for France's second, while Hernandez superbly denied Saka at the other end a few minutes prior. Could have had Tomori playing, instead he was left at home.

Qualifying will be a snooze-fest - Italy, Ukraine, N Macedonia and Malta. Top two go through, so the Italy game doesn't matter too much. No Nations League until after the Euros, I think, so that's all the competitive action England will get until the Euros. Euro 2024 will be nice, it'll be back to normal. The first tournament since 2016 to be held in one country, and a country that doesn't have despicable human rights, and held at a normal time for international tournaments.

I'm fine with Southgate staying, as long as he's ditched 5atb for good. It's partially frustrating, because if England had set up like they did last night for the Euros final then I think they would have won it, with Italy 2021 not being as good as France 2022. It's not set in stone that Southgate will keep the 4-3-3, last night's result may cause him to revert to more defensive tactics. And I don't want Southgate to stay if his energy has gone, like Hodgson after 2014 with England just drifting aimlessly to the car crash that was 2016. If Southgate goes, Potter should be the only man they covet.

I think it's time for England to move on from Walker, Henderson, Trippier, Wilson, Coady, Maguire and Dier. Walker and Henderson had fine tournaments, Walker was immense last night, but they'll be 34 by the time of the next Euros, and 36 for the next World Cup. Time to find players that are younger. Sterling and Shaw should no longer be guaranteed starters, although LB is a problem area.

Next Euros starting XI - Pickford; new LB? Stones possibly? New CB/Tomori? James; Rice, Bellingham, new CM?; Foden, Kane, Saka/Rashford?

by GSC Sun 11 Dec 2022, 11:55 am

Chilwell potentially though he needs to start playing again.

Trent replacing Henderson might be his best chance of playing under Gareth. Not sure if it's workable but given where Henderson was receiving the ball worth a look. Be mount though

by Duty281 Sun 11 Dec 2022, 12:07 pm

It's a bit of a schedule squeeze, but England are in the U20 World Cup next summer (20 May-11 June, held in...Indonesia), followed by the U21 European Championship (21 June-8 July), so a chance for some of the youth to make a claim ahead of 2024.

Not sure if there'll be players playing in both tournaments or not.

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