S African teams can't compete financially with Irish due to no salary cap

First topic message reminder :

https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/unitedrugbychampionship/nothing-we-could-do-no-irish-salary-cap-ultimately-contributed-to-kitshoff-ulster-move-20221112

Stormers coach has his say on the Kitshcoff deal with Ulster:

What it essentially means is different contracting rules for different sides competing in the same competition, which is something that Stormers coach John Dobson acknowledges might be teething problems of the South African move up north.

"Because of the cap in England, we can actually compete with those numbers. But when it comes to the Irish clubs or France or Japan, it just blows you out the water.

"There is no way we can compete with that kind of money, and that's quite sad. Kitsy will immerse himself there and will be superb for them, but it does sit a little bit in the gullet that we were just blown away financially by Irish rugby.

"I think the cap is a good thing because it means we have to be fiscally responsible and produce our own talent. We don't go buy Irish players because it's a very different model here and we try to produce our guys.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

TJ wrote:Phillbb wants to show that the welsh teams are under resourced to allow for the poor playing standards and thus can play the victim. He bangs on about this all the time without a shred of evidence

This in a nutshell. Whilst I agree with the plight of some of our regional fans, and what they are asking for, the thing is, they would rather blame everything else around them rather than look at what the regions could do better.

What could the regions do better, that would make them win the URC / Heineken Cup?

Rather than spending a fortune on mediocre players, spend the money on a better caliber of coaches.

Be more professional.

They would do for a start.

RugbyFan100 wrote:
What could the regions do better, that would make them win the URC / Heineken Cup?

Thats a really good question & I don't know the whole answer.

That said, we never seem to play with the same intensity as the Irish sides & now the South African sides.

Oakdene wrote:That said, we never seem to play with the same intensity as the Irish sides & now the South African sides.

I agree with this. Would you say that this is a coaching "thing" ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Oakdene wrote:That said, we never seem to play with the same intensity as the Irish sides & now the South African sides.

I agree with this. Would you say that this is a coaching "thing" ?

Very possibly but that argument would carry more weight if one or more of the regions were more intense but it seems to happen for all of them. There may be an argument that due to numbers of injuries it is hard to have intensive training sessions but what do you do?

Oakdene wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Oakdene wrote:That said, we never seem to play with the same intensity as the Irish sides & now the South African sides.

I agree with this. Would you say that this is a coaching "thing" ?

Very possibly but that argument would carry more weight if one or more of the regions were more intense but it seems to happen for all of them. There may be an argument that due to numbers of injuries it is hard to have intensive training sessions but what do you do?

I don't think any of the coaches at the regions are up to much, not when you consider the teams from other nations in our league.

I'll be honest I used to go to loads of Scarlets matches but due to the poor product on offer my last game was the beginning of last season. Coaches & players just don't seem to be up for the fight.

TJ wrote:

Oakwell suggested the spread of salary spends in Ireland is £5m to £10.5m, £7.5m x 3 in Wales with the Dragons on £6m, Scottish teams on £7.5m and £7m with the Italians rather unknown.

sounds pretty much right from loads of analysis over the years.  this is the spend on players for the URC teams

Phillbb wants to show that the welsh teams are under resourced to allow for the poor playing standards and thus can play the victim.  He bangs on about this all the time without a shred of evidence

Erm, I've just provided the evidence. You even quoted the evidence I'd provided.

Well played.

TJ wrote:

PhilBB wrote:
I've already told you that I think the Oakwell numbers are short.

So whats your evidence for this?

The IRFU Annual Report.

Thanks.

Pot Hale wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

TJ wrote:

Phillbb wants to show that the welsh teams are under resourced to allow for the poor playing standards and thus can play the victim.  He bangs on about this all the time without a shred of evidence

Do you think the 4 Welsh teams and their coaches are resourced to the same level as the teams at the top of the URC?

I doubt very much that they are - there is little or no money in Welsh regional rugby - very poor gates, sponsors, tv monies, overpaid players, little or no regional academies, poor coaches, poor management, poor structures, no real identities, little fan engagement, massive bank loans, spiralling debts - it's a basket case at this point.

It's the same TV money for each participant in the URC, there are 5 regional academies, two of the four have 140+ year old identities

Other than that, good trolling. And nice to see you've unlocked your Twitter account again.

LordDowlais wrote:
Rather than spending a fortune on mediocre players, spend the money on a better caliber of coaches.

Be more professional.

They would do for a start.

Which 'better calibre of coaches' want to work with under resourced squads? Which coaches are you thinking of?

How does "be more professional" manifest itself?

Oakdene wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:
What could the regions do better, that would make them win the URC / Heineken Cup?

Thats a really good question & I don't know the whole answer.

That said, we never seem to play with the same intensity as the Irish sides & now the South African sides.

Really? So what's Munster's record in Wales this season?

Oakdene wrote:I'll be honest I used to go to loads of Scarlets matches but due to the poor product on offer my last game was the beginning of last season. Coaches & players just don't seem to be up for the fight.

Would you be up for the fight when you don't know if you're going to be paid next month?

PhilBB wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:
What could the regions do better, that would make them win the URC / Heineken Cup?

Thats a really good question & I don't know the whole answer.

That said, we never seem to play with the same intensity as the Irish sides & now the South African sides.

Really? So what's Munster's record in Wales this season?

One swallow doesn't make a summer.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Rather than spending a fortune on mediocre players, spend the money on a better caliber of coaches.

Be more professional.

They would do for a start.

Which 'better calibre of coaches' want to work with under resourced squads? Which coaches are you thinking of?

How does "be more professional" manifest itself?

I'm sure you could answer those questions yourself. You do not need me to tell you your teams failing on and off the pitch.

Oakdene wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:
What could the regions do better, that would make them win the URC / Heineken Cup?

Thats a really good question & I don't know the whole answer.

That said, we never seem to play with the same intensity as the Irish sides & now the South African sides.

Really? So what's Munster's record in Wales this season?

One swallow doesn't make a summer.

It was you who wrote "never", not me.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Rather than spending a fortune on mediocre players, spend the money on a better caliber of coaches.

Be more professional.

They would do for a start.

Which 'better calibre of coaches' want to work with under resourced squads? Which coaches are you thinking of?

How does "be more professional" manifest itself?

I'm sure you could answer those questions yourself. You do not need me to tell you your teams failing on and off the pitch.

I can't answer those questions because those questions are there to seek YOUR opinion. You've stated "employ better coaches" and "be more professional".

Which coaches? Being "more professional" means what?

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Rather than spending a fortune on mediocre players, spend the money on a better caliber of coaches.

Be more professional.

They would do for a start.

Which 'better calibre of coaches' want to work with under resourced squads? Which coaches are you thinking of?

How does "be more professional" manifest itself?

I'm sure you could answer those questions yourself. You do not need me to tell you your teams failing on and off the pitch.

I can't answer those questions because those questions are there to seek YOUR opinion. You've stated "employ better coaches" and "be more professional".

Which coaches? Being "more professional" means what?

It's pointless, you'll just tell me I'm wrong.

If you cannot see your own teams failings, then it is pointless debating it with you.

Who is the highest payed player at Cardiff these days ?

LordDowlais wrote:
It's pointless, you'll just tell me I'm wrong.

If you cannot see your own teams failings, then it is pointless debating it with you.

Who is the highest payed player at Cardiff these days ?

Highest paid player? Faletau. His wage is set by the WRU wage banding.

I wouldn't tell you were wrong. I'd prove to you that you are wrong. Can you see the difference?

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
It's pointless, you'll just tell me I'm wrong.

If you cannot see your own teams failings, then it is pointless debating it with you.

Who is the highest payed player at Cardiff these days ?

Highest paid player? Faletau. His wage is set by the WRU wage banding.

I wouldn't tell you were wrong. I'd prove to you that you are wrong. Can you see the difference?

So whats the point of having a player like him, if the coaches are like eddie the eagle ?

Thats what I mean about being more professional. Yes it's nice to have Faletau on 400K a year, but I would have rather used that money to get better coaches at the club.

LordDowlais wrote:

So whats the point of having a player like him, if the coaches are like eddie the eagle ?

Thats what I mean about being more professional. Yes it's nice to have Faletau on 400K a year, but I would have rather used that money to get better coaches at the club.

Well you may call David Young "Eddie the Eagle" but you're yet to tell me the name of somebody better who would take the job.

So let's review your version of professional....

The WRU sets aside a pot of cash each year that must be spent on the NS38 players. This means that Faletau (who was offered half that sum by Bath, by the way) was put in the £400k bracket but Cardiff are able to get £320k out of that pot to help pay for Faletau's salary.

So Faletau, in effect, costs Cardiff £80k.

So do you stand by your claim that it unprofessional to employ Faletau on a real time cost of £80,000 per season?

And, do you think it is unprofessional to offer £400k to a player whose club offered him £200k? If you do, you're labelling the WRU as unprofessional.

PhilBB wrote:And, do you think it is unprofessional to offer £400k to a player whose club offered him £200k? If you do, you're labelling the WRU as unprofessional.

The WRU are very unprofessional in my opinion, what went on a month ago with the vote for an independent pro chairman proves that.

I just think the regions could spend what money they have, a lot better. But that is just one thing. There are plenty more, and as a regional supporter, you cannot tell me that your team never winds you up with they way they conduct themselves at times.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:And, do you think it is unprofessional to offer £400k to a player whose club offered him £200k? If you do, you're labelling the WRU as unprofessional.

The WRU are very unprofessional in my opinion, what went on a month ago with the vote for an independent pro chairman proves that.

I just think the regions could spend what money they have, a lot better. But that is just one thing. There are plenty more, and as a regional supporter, you cannot tell me that your team never winds you up with they way they conduct themselves at times.

Hang on, you've not addressed my point about Faletau. Why have you just ignored it? You raised the point, I explained it. You then ignore it?!?!!?

Come on, if you're interacting in good faith then you need to address the point made about Faletau, let alone Dai Young.

So, to clear up the confusion:

- In your opinion, is in unprofessional to employ Faletau at £80k a year? Yes or No?
- Is Dai Young worth of being labelled "Eddie the Eagle"? Yes or No?

PhilBB wrote:- In your opinion, is in unprofessional to employ Faletau at £80k a year? Yes or No?

You do not need him. Spend the money elsewhere.

Dai Young is out of touch with modern rugby. He was good back in the day, but he either needs to improve, and get with the times, or he will forever get left behind by the more promising forward thinking coaches.

How much is Priestland on ?

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:- In your opinion, is in unprofessional to employ Faletau at £80k a year? Yes or No?

You do not need him. Spend the money elsewhere.

Dai Young is out of touch with modern rugby. He was good back in the day, but he either needs to improve, and get with the times, or he will forever get left behind by the more promising forward thinking coaches.  

How much is Priestland on ?

I don't know how much present Wales international Priestland is on but I do know he is part of the 38.

Thanks for the chat today but when I read "Dai Young is out of touch with modern rugby" having just read "Faletau for £80k is not needed" then I don't see anywhere else to go.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:- In your opinion, is in unprofessional to employ Faletau at £80k a year? Yes or No?

You do not need him. Spend the money elsewhere.

Dai Young is out of touch with modern rugby. He was good back in the day, but he either needs to improve, and get with the times, or he will forever get left behind by the more promising forward thinking coaches.  

How much is Priestland on ?

I don't know how much present Wales international Priestland is on but I do know he is part of the 38.

Thanks for the chat today but when I read "Dai Young is out of touch with modern rugby" having just read "Faletau for £80k is not needed" then I don't see anywhere else to go.

It's not just about the regions though, it about all of pro rugby.

Why have Faletau, as world class as he is, when you have Navidi ?

PhilBB wrote:I don't know how much present Wales international Priestland is on but I do know he is part of the 38.

He wouldn't be anywhere near the squad if Biggar was fit.

Coming back to the topic of the title.

Updated info on Ulster's playing budget in 2021/22 with info from their Annual Report.

Player costs: £4.17m on Professional Game Expenses which includes player/team management/medical costs.  Player costs were down £1.2m from last year with IRFU picking up the tab for six months of the year due to Covid impacts before they started re-charging the provinces.   However, medical costs were up due to additional resources brought in.  

Ulster Rugby owed IRFU £2.5m cumulatively at year end, down from £3.2m last year - the provinces have to pay down their respective debts to IRFU after Dec 2022.

As part of future planning and risk-management within the game, the IRFU decided during mid-2021 to incorporate as a Company Limited by Guarantee (CLG) to avoid its voluntary members becoming personally liable in the event of a financial collapse.  They are currently looking at how they will structure the four provincial branches accordingly.  Ulster Rugby plan to become a CLG by mid-2023. It remains to be seen if the other 3 branches will do likewise.  

Well just on the Cardiff point... Dai Young is a good coach. I'm not sure about the rest but in all fairness they were due a decent backs coach but then he snubbed them, a decision he must regret with the pressure now mounting on him as head coach. Faletau part of the 38, world-class and inspirational player - wise choice especially with Navidi injured. Dai can't do much more than he already has done given the regions budget malarky - which I'm hoping is somewhat resolved soon so we can look to invest. I guess Liam Williams is also in the 38, Thomas Young I doubt it. If Priestland is in there, it's a bad call.

Dragons done alright so far, surprisingly, with Dai Flanagan. The players we signed and retained also decent and much better than what we've been doing in previous years. A better measure might be how they go in South Africa.

LordDowlais wrote:
Why have Faletau, as world class as he is, when you have Navidi ?

I chose to walk away from the inanity of this conversation yesterday when you claimed that £80k a year was an "unprofessional" signing of Faletau

Now you're asking me why have a British Lion flanker and a British Lion number 8.

I mean, I'm genuinely unsure as to whether you're writing in good faith here or if you're on a silly wind up

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:I don't know how much present Wales international Priestland is on but I do know he is part of the 38.

He wouldn't be anywhere near the squad if Biggar was fit.

Then take it up with Pivac as to why he's in the 38

Or, maybe, re-assess your own take on rugby

Pot Hale wrote:Coming back to the topic of the title.

Updated info on Ulster's playing budget in 2021/22 with info from their Annual Report.

Player costs: £4.17m on Professional Game Expenses which includes player/team management/medical costs.  Player costs were down £1.2m from last year with IRFU picking up the tab for six months of the year due to Covid impacts before they started re-charging the provinces.   However, medical costs were up due to additional resources brought in.  

I guess you're not going to address the point that this is the recharge money only.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Why have Faletau, as world class as he is, when you have Navidi ?

I chose to walk away from the inanity of this conversation yesterday when you claimed that £80k a year was an "unprofessional" signing of Faletau

Now you're asking me why have a British Lion flanker and a British Lion number 8.

I mean, I'm genuinely unsure as to whether you're writing in good faith here or if you're on a silly wind up

Behave will you.

Navidi was playing number 8 for Cardiff and Wales before his injury. In the squad you also have Ellis Jenkins, Olly Robinson, Thomas Young to just name three. But lets jam pack one region with the Lions share of international back rowers, very professional from the pro side of rugby in Wales.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Why have Faletau, as world class as he is, when you have Navidi ?

I chose to walk away from the inanity of this conversation yesterday when you claimed that £80k a year was an "unprofessional" signing of Faletau

Now you're asking me why have a British Lion flanker and a British Lion number 8.

I mean, I'm genuinely unsure as to whether you're writing in good faith here or if you're on a silly wind up

Behave will you.

Navidi was playing number 8 for Cardiff and Wales before his injury. In the squad you also have Ellis Jenkins, Olly Robinson, Thomas Young to just name three. But lets jam pack one region with the Lions share of international back rowers, very professional from the pro side of rugby in Wales.

Any rugby team in the world would take Faletau for £80k a year. When he was signed, it was likely that Jenkins and Robinson would leave (as Boyde did).

Leinster must be rank unprofessionals in your mind, if you don't like one club having the "Lions share of internationals". Or didn't you think that comment through?

p.s Navidi has played 2,969 minutes at 8 for Cardiff compared with 8,801 minutes as a flanker. Because he's a flanker who sometimes has to play 8.

https://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/6002.php?playerID=25

If all you have is "Cardiff is unprofessional for signing Faletau" then how do you expect people to view your opinion?

RugbyFan100 wrote:"Regions need to spend their money more wisely!!"

[Regions spend smart money adding squad depth and British Lions players]

"Regions are stockpiling backrowers"


THICK
AS
A
SUBMARINE
WINDOW

It's quite the take, it really is.

"You should employ Warren Gatland"
"Sure, we'll give him a call"
...
...
....
"Hey, Warren, fancy coming to coach us?"
"Sure, I hear you've signed Faletau"
"Nah, we decided against it because it would be unprofessional to have Faletau and Navidi in the same squad"
".....@.....@......drrrrrrrrr"
"Warren? Warren? Are you there?"

Jack Conan 33 caps
Josh van der Flier 45 caps
Will Connors 9 caps
Max Deegan 2 caps
Calean Doris 23 caps
Rhys Ruddock 27 caps

vs

Thomas Young 4 caps
James Botham 9 caps
Taulupe Faletau 91 caps
Ellis Jenkins 15 caps
Shane Lewis-Hughes 3 caps
Josh Navidi 33 caps

One is the URC Champions, the other is "unprofessional" according to Dowlais-logic.

PhilBB wrote:Jack Conan 33 caps
Josh van der Flier 45 caps
Will Connors 9 caps
Max Deegan 2 caps
Calean Doris 23 caps
Rhys Ruddock 27 caps

vs

Thomas Young 4 caps
James Botham 9 caps
Taulupe Faletau 91 caps
Ellis Jenkins 15 caps
Shane Lewis-Hughes 3 caps
Josh Navidi 33 caps

One is the URC Champions, the other is "unprofessional" according to Dowlais-logic.

No.

One has oodles of money to be able to do it, and employ decent coaches at the same time. The other doesn't. Thats why the one with less money, should spend it more wisely.

Not logic, fact.

LordDowlais wrote:
No.

One has oodles of money to be able to do it, and employ decent coaches at the same time. The other doesn't. Thats why the one with less money, should spend it more wisely.

Not logic, fact.

And here you are telling the world that, in your logic, £80k isn't a wise spend on Faletau. Maybe you should review your understanding of the word "wise"?

Which decent coaches would want to work with underfunded squads? Do tell.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:Jack Conan 33 caps
Josh van der Flier 45 caps
Will Connors 9 caps
Max Deegan 2 caps
Calean Doris 23 caps
Rhys Ruddock 27 caps

vs

Thomas Young 4 caps
James Botham 9 caps
Taulupe Faletau 91 caps
Ellis Jenkins 15 caps
Shane Lewis-Hughes 3 caps
Josh Navidi 33 caps

One is the URC Champions, the other is "unprofessional" according to Dowlais-logic.

No.

One has oodles of money to be able to do it, and employ decent coaches at the same time. The other doesn't. Thats why the one with less money, should spend it more wisely.

Not logic, fact.

You just said they should lay out 350k on the coach. So, with that in mind, and also your claim that Cardiff shouldn't have spent £80k on Faletau, which players should they axe and which players should they sign?

You've got to back up your poor player spending claim with examples otherwise it really looks like you are just throwing tired insults around with no valid criticism whatsoever. One might even say "you have a bit of an agenda" here, as you have zero evidence so far to support any of your claims.

RugbyFan100 wrote:
You just said they should lay out 350k on the coach. So, with that in mind, and also your claim that Cardiff shouldn't have spent £80k on Faletau, which players should they axe and which players should they sign?

You've got to back up your poor player spending claim with examples otherwise it really looks like you are just throwing tired insults around with no valid criticism whatsoever. One might even say "you have a bit of an agenda" here, as you have zero evidence so far to support any of your claims.

£350k on a coach who would sign up to coach inferior players.

And who are these top coaches who would like up to coach in Wales but only if the likes of Faletau were playing elsewhere......

Coaches improve the players, a good coach will get a lot more out a team than a poor coach.

Anyway, it is futile debating with you two. You just dismiss everything people try and explain to you.

The four pro teams, according to you pair, are doing nothing wrong, the reason why they are failing is because of everything and everybody else. Lets just go with that is it ? It will save a lot of time for us all.

LordDowlais wrote:You just dismiss everything people try and explain to you.
.

You haven't tried to explain anything.

LordDowlais wrote:Coaches improve the players, a good coach will get a lot more out a team than a poor coach.

Anyway, it is futile debating with you two. You just dismiss everything people try and explain to you.

The four pro teams, according to you pair, are doing nothing wrong, the reason why they are failing is because of everything and everybody else. Lets just go with that is it ? It will save a lot of time for us all.

Ok, now you've had that little tantrum we can now progress to examining your opinion further.

Whilst we digest your opinion that signing Faletau for £80k is "unprofessional", you want £350k freed up from Cardiff's playing squad to pay for Warren Gatland to coach a squad that doesn't have Faletau in it.

Is that right so far? I hope so.

If so, which players are you getting rid of for "under performing and being overpaid"? And who are the other three "top coaches" you'd approach for the other three jobs in Wales.

PhilBB wrote:Ok, now you've had that little tantrum we can now progress to examining your opinion further.

Yes, very good.

PhilBB wrote:Whilst we digest your opinion that signing Faletau for £80k is "unprofessional", you want £350k freed up from Cardiff's playing squad to pay for Warren Gatland to coach a squad that doesn't have Faletau in it.

Please quote me as saying signing him for that much is unprofessional. What I have said is Cardiff do not need him, but don't worry, as you and you mate on here think the regions are behaving exactly how they should be when it comes to professionalism.

It would seem that it's everyone else's fault why the regions are on a downward spiral.

PhilBB wrote:If so, which players are you getting rid of for "under performing and being overpaid"? And who are the other three "top coaches" you'd approach for the other three jobs in Wales.

You watch Cardiff more than me Phil, stop playing silly buggers, you know who is not worth their money at your team. Unless you are deluded enough to think all the Cardiff players are doing just great.

Why should I answer where they get the coaches from ? Why don't you ask one of the Irish teams, they seem to get it right.

LordDowlais wrote:
Please quote me as saying signing him for that much is unprofessional.

https://www.606v2.com/t70894p100-s-african-teams-can-t-compete-financially-with-irish-due-to-no-salary-cap#4065940

Sure.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:You just dismiss everything people try and explain to you.
.

You haven't tried to explain anything.

Yes I have, but don't worry, as I have said, it's futile. Lets just stick to the remit that the four pro clubs are doing nothing wrong.

LordDowlais wrote: as you and you mate on here think the regions are behaving exactly how they should be when it comes to professionalism.

In your words, "Please quote me as saying" for claiming that.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Please quote me as saying signing him for that much is unprofessional.

https://www.606v2.com/t70894p100-s-african-teams-can-t-compete-financially-with-irish-due-to-no-salary-cap#4065940

Sure.

Nope, thats not a quote of me saying that.

That is me saying Cardiff do not need him. Like I said, it's futile debating this with you.

80K is a steel for a player of that caliber. But this is just your spin on it to try and make me look inept.

LordDowlais wrote:

You watch Cardiff more than me Phil, stop playing silly buggers, you know who is not worth their money at your team. Unless you are deluded enough to think all the Cardiff players are doing just great.

Why should I answer where they get the coaches from ? Why don't you ask one of the Irish teams, they seem to get it right.

The Irish teams have good coaches at the best teams and the best teams have more expensive squads than we have in Wales. That's why the best coaches go to Ireland and not Wales.

Do you now understand the basic flaw in your thinking? For the nth time, good coaches want to work with good squads.

And, also for the nth time, YOU claimed Cardiff should get rid of players. That is YOUR opinion. I am seeking some detail from YOU for YOUR opinion, detail you won't give.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Please quote me as saying signing him for that much is unprofessional.

https://www.606v2.com/t70894p100-s-african-teams-can-t-compete-financially-with-irish-due-to-no-salary-cap#4065940

Sure.

Nope, thats not a quote of me saying that.

That is me saying Cardiff do not need him. Like I said, it's futile debating this with you.

"But lets jam pack one region with the Lions share of international back rowers, very professional from the pro side of rugby in Wales"

The sarcasm of the comment "very professional" underlines your claim of it being unprofessional to sign him.

Either you don't understand the words you're typing, or you're now wriggling from being caught out.

Guys, play nicely.

Personal attacks will ultimately end with time on the naughty step.