Irish Provincial teams for next year

Genuinely interested on how Leinster and Munster will shape up over the coming year.
Thinking specifically what the teams will be during the Wc, what they will be after and what they will be at the end.

Below I have listed Ulster with a / being a position I am uncertain over:

15 - Payne, Payne, Payne
11 - Spence, Trimble, Trimble
13 - Cave, Cave/Spence, Cave/Spence
12 - Marshall, Wallace, Wallace/Marshall
11 - Gilroy, Danielli/Gilroy, Gilroy
10 - Humphreys, Humphreys, Humphreys
9 - Marshall, Pienaer, Pienaer
1 - McAllister, Court, McAllister/Court
2 - Kyriacou, Best, Best
3 - Fitzpatrick, Afoa, Afoa
4 - Muller, Muller, Muller
5 - Tuohy, Tuohy/Stevenson, Tuohy/Stevenson
6 - Henry, Ferris, Ferris
7 - Faloon, Faloon/Henry, Faloon/Henry
8 - Wannenberg, Wannenberg, Wannenberg

Assuming predictable WC squad selections i.e. no bolters
As you can see I reckon 2 internationals are Wallace and Court will be fighting to hold on to their provincial spot by the end of the season and that 1 Danielli will not make the team

Ok leinster

V D merwe, healy,healy
strauss,cronin,strauss/cronin
hagan,ross,ross

sykes,sykes,mclaughlin
toner,cullen,cullen

mclaughin, o'brien,????
ryan,jennings,?????
rudduck,heislip,????

boss,reddan,boss
berquiest,sexton,sexton

kearney,isa,isa
?????,darcy,darcy
o'malley,bod,????
Shaggy,shaggy,shaggy (think he will be over his injury for leinster)
isa, kearney,kearney

15 - Murphy, Jones, Jones
14 - Howlett, Howlett, Howlett
13 - Barnes, Barnes, Earls
12 - Mafi, Mafi, New NIQ
11 - Zebo, Earls, Zebo
10 - Keatley, ROG, ROG
9 - Murray, Murray, O'Leary/Murray
8 - Coughlan, Coughlan, Coughlan
7 - Ronan, Wallace, Wallace
6 - Leamy, Leamy, Leamy
5 - O'Driscoll, O'Connell, O'Connell
4 - Nagle, O'Callaghan, O'Callaghan/Ryan
3 - Botha, Botha, Botha
2 - Varley, Flannery, Varley/Flannery
1 - du Preez, du Preez, du Preez

Expecting Flannery, O'Leary, Ryan, O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Earls, Jones, O'Gara, Wallace to travel to World Cup.

What if Botha is selected for the WC ?

geoff998rugby wrote:What if Botha is selected for the WC ?

Then it will be Archer backed up by Peter Borlase.

When are the pro12 fixtures out

would be good to get an interpro game when everyone is away, especially if ireland are doing well

I don't know about a starting team during the World Cup but I'd like to see a few players get extended game time like Zebo, O'Mahoney, O'Donnell, Nagle, Darragh Hurley and Sherry.

I'd also like to see maybe Dave Foley get some games along with Archer and maybe Hanrahan to get some minutes on the field.

Certainly hope the forwards Hurley, Nagle, O'Donnell and O'Mahony get game time as well as Hanrahan. We need to build these areas.

red_stag wrote:15 - Murphy, Jones, Jones
14 - Howlett, Howlett, Howlett
13 - Barnes, Barnes, Earls
12 - Mafi, Mafi, New NIQ
11 - Zebo, Earls, Zebo
10 - Keatley, ROG, ROG
9 - Murray, Murray, O'Leary/Murray
8 - Coughlan, Coughlan, Coughlan
7 - Ronan, Wallace, Wallace
6 - Leamy, Leamy, Leamy
5 - O'Driscoll, O'Connell, O'Connell
4 - Nagle, O'Callaghan, O'Callaghan/Ryan
3 - Botha, Botha, Botha
2 - Varley, Flannery, Varley/Flannery
1 - du Preez, du Preez, du Preez

Expecting Flannery, O'Leary, Ryan, O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Earls, Jones, O'Gara, Wallace to travel to World Cup.

I would add Murray to the above list as well Stag.

I feel that O'Leary will end up going instead of him. Not that I agree with it.

Well I think it is 2 from 3 as far as the Munster 9's are concerned as Kidney doesn't seem to rate Boss. So Kidney will, effectively, be selecting the Munster 9 for the first 2 months.

Some things never change

I hope we see Duncan Williams get more game time.

Geoff,

Well it's kind of tough when we are the only province actually producing scrum halves.

MBTGOG wrote:Geoff,

Well it's kind of tough when we are the only province actually producing scrum halves.

Indeed. Eoin Reddan, Conor Murray, Tomas O'Leary, Peter Stringer, Frank Murphy are all Munster produced.

Isaac Boss was produced by NZ.

D4tress-

I don't see Kearney getting the 15 jersey back. Why would Schmidt move the best fullback in the NH out of position? The IRFU may interject but don't see the point considering it's jsut after the world cup and the coach will have 4 years to find a 15.

Can see McFadden at centre instead of Darcy and Carr on the wing!
So...

VDM, healy,healy
strauss,strauss/cronin,strauss/cronin
hagan,ross,ross

sykes,sykes,mclaughlin
toner,cullen,cullen

mclaughin, o'brien,o'brien
ryan,jennings,jennings
rudduck,heaslip,heaslip

boss,reddan,boss
berquiest,sexton,sexton

kearney/carr/fitz,kearney/carr/fitz,kearney/carr/fitz
Macken/Darcy, McF, McF
o'malley,bod,bod
Shaggy/conway,shaggy,shaggy
isa, isa, isa

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:D4tress-

I don't see Kearney getting the 15 jersey back. Why would Schmidt move the best fullback in the NH out of position? The IRFU may interject but don't see the point considering it's jsut after the world cup and the coach will have 4 years to find a 15.

Can see McFadden at centre instead of Darcy and Carr on the wing!
So...

VDM, healy,healy
strauss,strauss/cronin,strauss/cronin
hagan,ross,ross

sykes,sykes,mclaughlin
toner,cullen,cullen

mclaughin, o'brien,o'brien
ryan,jennings,jennings
rudduck,heaslip,heaslip

boss,reddan,boss
berquiest,sexton,sexton

kearney/carr/fitz,kearney/carr/fitz,kearney/carr/fitz
Macken/Darcy, McF, McF
o'malley,bod,bod
Shaggy/conway,shaggy,shaggy
isa, isa, isa

i was doing the backs and something was niggling at me and i couldn't for the life of me remember who i left out, only the prodigal son returned, irelands next denis hickey, fionn carr.

I think kearney will be pushed into full back and room will be found somewhere for isa
maybe even at inside centre for a while, close to the action without as much responsibilty
him and berquist could tear up a few youngsters in the opening games

MBTGOG wrote:Geoff,

Well it's kind of tough when we are the only province actually producing scrum halves.

We do have 2 on the books but some Saffer gets in the way.

With our front rowers and backs coming through I think we will be pulling our weight in years to come

Why will kearney be pushed into fullback? He is not better than Isa. We have the cover everywhere else. If it was 6 months ago it would make sense that the IRFU would tell Leisnter to play Kearney with the RWC looming but at the beginning of the cycle doesn't make any sense.

Carr, Fitzgerald, Horgan, Conway, Kearney, D.Kearney and Nacewa will all be fighting for back 3 places.

The only one who is guarenteed a spot is Isa really.

McFadden will be fighting for centre.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Carr, Fitzgerald, Horgan, Conway, Kearney, D.Kearney and Nacewa will all be fighting for back 3 places.

The only one who is guarenteed a spot is Isa really.

McFadden will be fighting for centre.

For now. Despite being a better player is there a chance Isa will lose out soon especially as Leinster will have to go from 5 NIW +1 Project to 4 NIQ + 1 Project.

My strongest Ulster lineup would be: -

Payne, Trimble, Gilroy
Cave, Marshall
Humphreys, Piennaar
Court, Best, Afoa
Muller, Tuohy
Ferris, Henry, Wannenberg

Geoff, during the World Cup we might see Payne actually get game time at centre, no? Don't forget we still have Adam Darcy who got better as the season went on. Also would you have Stevenson ahead of Tim Barker?.

Actually I think our forwards are looking very strong for next year (injuries permitting) with the likes of McAllister, Brady, Kyriacou, Fitzpatrick, Barker, Stevenson, Diack, Falloon, McComish fighting to get into the matchday squad. Choose between the two hookers and that isn't a bad lineup in itself!

No Spence?

red_stag wrote:No Spence?

Blasphemy!!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Why will kearney be pushed into fullback? He is not better than Isa. We have the cover everywhere else. If it was 6 months ago it would make sense that the IRFU would tell Leisnter to play Kearney with the RWC looming but at the beginning of the cycle doesn't make any sense.

Carr, Fitzgerald, Horgan, Conway, Kearney, D.Kearney and Nacewa will all be fighting for back 3 places.

The only one who is guarenteed a spot is Isa really.

McFadden will be fighting for centre.

Considering the IRFU are paying Kearney's wages, I'd say they would want him being played. Kearney signed a 2 year central contract in March which will keep him playing for Leinster & Ireland until the end of the 2013 season. Sean O'Brien didn't manage to get one of those.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/irish/9413563.stm

i'm taking names of the kearney doubters

don't fall into the cliche that he not a modern(last two years) full back

he was a counter attacking machine(lions) and is very good

once his injury is healed and hopefully he can get his confidence back quick he will be our no.15 at ireland and then prob at leinster aswell

red_stag wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Carr, Fitzgerald, Horgan, Conway, Kearney, D.Kearney and Nacewa will all be fighting for back 3 places.

The only one who is guarenteed a spot is Isa really.

McFadden will be fighting for centre.

For now. Despite being a better player is there a chance Isa will lose out soon especially as Leinster will have to go from 5 NIW +1 Project to 4 NIQ + 1 Project.

I don't think so. Why would you give up the best one!? Leisnter want to be winning trophies constantly.
We will have Berquist, Isa, Skyes, VDM next year isn't that it? Then Strauu makes up the +1. That's fine or am I being thick?

Wait, what? When was he a counter attacking machine for the Lions. Clip please!

"counter attacking machine"

That kind of terminology always makes me laugh.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

red_stag wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Carr, Fitzgerald, Horgan, Conway, Kearney, D.Kearney and Nacewa will all be fighting for back 3 places.

The only one who is guarenteed a spot is Isa really.

McFadden will be fighting for centre.

For now. Despite being a better player is there a chance Isa will lose out soon especially as Leinster will have to go from 5 NIW +1 Project to 4 NIQ + 1 Project.

I don't think so. Why would you give up the best one!? Leisnter want to be winning trophies constantly.
We will have Berquist, Isa, Skyes, VDM next year isn't that it? Then Strauu makes up the +1. That's fine or am I being thick?

Its fine I'm just thinking Leinster may need a player in another position in a season or two and may have very good back 3 options.

red_stag wrote:No Spence?

Personal pick Stag. I prefer Cave. Remember, he was being talked of as the BOD successor just a couple of years ago. Injury limited him last year but he looks like he is back fit.
Certainly Spence will play his share of games and will probably be ahead of Cave but as I said it's my personal pick.

Well no need to get personal Rav!

Oh wait.........

MBTGOG wrote:"counter attacking machine"

That kind of terminology always makes me laugh.

Think i might have been a bit ott with the machine part, but he is great with ball in hand and unlike some of the others we have tried out he is always steady under the ball, and runs a great line when joining the attack

Good with ball in hand?!
Runs a great line when joing the attack!?

We are talking about Rob Kearney right?!?!?!?!?!?

Stag- where do you think Leinster will need a NIQ in the next few years? Second row?

I'm only speculating Pete. I think that they may want a 13, 9 or lock.

D24,

I would have to completely disagree with you on him running great lines. He always looks so awkward trying to insert himself into attack getting lost.

Regarding his great lines

i can think of away against brive isa scored and rob ran a great line for it(late in the day now so i could have imagined this)

but pete and mbtgog are top of my told you so list when rob comes storming back.

D24tress wrote:but pete and mbtgog are top of my told you so list when rob comes storming back.

Actually all they have said is he isn't a running fullback. If he plays a solid under high ball, big boot kind of game then so can't say told you so. He has to be a counter attacking machine who runs great lines.

Rava wrote:My strongest Ulster lineup would be: -

Payne, Trimble, Gilroy
Cave, Marshall
Humphreys, Piennaar
Court, Best, Afoa
Muller, Tuohy
Ferris, Henry, Wannenberg

Geoff, during the World Cup we might see Payne actually get game time at centre, no? Don't forget we still have Adam Darcy who got better as the season went on. Also would you have Stevenson ahead of Tim Barker?.

Actually I think our forwards are looking very strong for next year (injuries permitting) with the likes of McAllister, Brady, Kyriacou, Fitzpatrick, Barker, Stevenson, Diack, Falloon, McComish fighting to get into the matchday squad. Choose between the two hookers and that isn't a bad lineup in itself!

Don't think Payne arrives till October. Besides we have Marshall, the underrated Whitten, Spence and Cave to do centre

Yeah I guess you are right. nacewa may step into 13. I wouldn't mind taking an IQ scrumhalf from Munster or Ulster, Williams and Porter look good.

Lock may become an issue. Come on Kev *crosses fingers*

Ok D4 that's fair. if he turns out to be the best 15 in the NH I will warmly take my hat off to you, sincerely.

Why am I top of the list? I don't want to be there. Oh shoot!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Yeah I guess you are right. nacewa may step into 13. I wouldn't mind taking an IQ scrumhalf from Munster or Ulster, Williams and Porter look good.

Lock may become an issue. Come on Kev *crosses fingers*

Ok D4 that's fair. if he turns out to be the best 15 in the NH I will warmly take my hat off to you, sincerely.

Pete I do think that the Connacht pairing of Paul O'Donoghue and Andrew Browne will move (or return as the case may be) to Leinster.

This is gonna sound very condescending and snobby but I think Leinster will want better

Rava wrote:My strongest Ulster lineup would be: -

Payne, Trimble, Gilroy
Cave, Marshall
Humphreys, Piennaar
Court, Best, Afoa
Muller, Tuohy
Ferris, Henry, Wannenberg

Geoff, during the World Cup we might see Payne actually get game time at centre, no? Don't forget we still have Adam Darcy who got better as the season went on. Also would you have Stevenson ahead of Tim Barker?.

Actually I think our forwards are looking very strong for next year (injuries permitting) with the likes of McAllister, Brady, Kyriacou, Fitzpatrick, Barker, Stevenson, Diack, Falloon, McComish fighting to get into the matchday squad. Choose between the two hookers and that isn't a bad lineup in itself!

I can't see Marshall starting ahead of Wallace early on but later in the season maybe.
Cave/Spence is a tricky one.
With Cave, Spence and Marshall available I just think we are more likely to see Payne at FB .
I think he may not be joining till mid Sept so D'Arcy will start the first couple.
I would most definitely have Stevenson ahead of Barker - he will push Tuohy in my view, as I indicated.
2nd row is looking quite respectable for next year.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:This is gonna sound very condescending and snobby but I think Leinster will want better

Your right. It does sound condescending and snobby. Good players are not born they are made. They are both only 23 and have potential to really deliver especially with game time in Pro 12 from Connacht.

MBTGOG wrote:Well no need to get personal Rav!

Oh wait.........

geoff998rugby wrote:

Rava wrote:My strongest Ulster lineup would be: -

Payne, Trimble, Gilroy
Cave, Marshall
Humphreys, Piennaar
Court, Best, Afoa
Muller, Tuohy
Ferris, Henry, Wannenberg

Geoff, during the World Cup we might see Payne actually get game time at centre, no? Don't forget we still have Adam Darcy who got better as the season went on. Also would you have Stevenson ahead of Tim Barker?.

Actually I think our forwards are looking very strong for next year (injuries permitting) with the likes of McAllister, Brady, Kyriacou, Fitzpatrick, Barker, Stevenson, Diack, Falloon, McComish fighting to get into the matchday squad. Choose between the two hookers and that isn't a bad lineup in itself!

I can't see Marshall starting ahead of Wallace early on but later in the season maybe.
Cave/Spence is a tricky one.
With Cave, Spence and Marshall available I just think we are more likely to see Payne at FB .
I think he may not be joining till mid Sept so D'Arcy will start the first couple.
I would most definitely have Stevenson ahead of Barker - he will push Tuohy in my view, as I indicated.
2nd row is looking quite respectable for next year.

Geoff, so you are not expecting Wallace to go to NZ then?

Stag-

i just think if Leinster have space for a NIQ player in those positions they will take them rather than those 2 lads. Does sound bad but that's what i can Leinster doing

I don't know pete. A few years ago the same would have been said about Cronin, Carr and Hagan and look where they are now.

Its the same as getting Cronin.

Ok well i guess we will just have to wait and see relly. If those lads are as good as the possible foreign signing I'd prefer those lads.

If we just keep buying players our Irish boys will never improve anyway.