Political round up.............

by **superflyweight** Mon 24 Oct 2022, 5:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

Duty281 wrote:Sunak speaks for a grand total of 84 seconds and then scuttles away to get his orders.

Crackpot.

by Duty281 Fri 08 Sep 2023, 1:06 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Labour's best chance is to get rid of Khan. Polls had him with big, double digit leads in the run-up to 2021, and it ended up being a lot closer than envisaged, so if he's only got a 1% lead now then that represents a big problem.

Another way to look at it is Khan leads by 33-32, but Labour in a GE in London are leading the same polling by 47-27, so Khan's unpopularity is manifest.

If Corbyn runs for Mayor then he'll be doing what he's done all his political life - helping the Tories.

Like in 2017 when he turned a Tory majority in to a Hung parliament.

I think you mean when he turned the easiest election win opportunity for Labour since 2005 into a loss.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 08 Sep 2023, 2:18 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Labour's best chance is to get rid of Khan. Polls had him with big, double digit leads in the run-up to 2021, and it ended up being a lot closer than envisaged, so if he's only got a 1% lead now then that represents a big problem.

Another way to look at it is Khan leads by 33-32, but Labour in a GE in London are leading the same polling by 47-27, so Khan's unpopularity is manifest.

If Corbyn runs for Mayor then he'll be doing what he's done all his political life - helping the Tories.

Like in 2017 when he turned a Tory majority in to a Hung parliament.

I think you mean when he turned the easiest election win opportunity for Labour since 2005 into a loss.

No I think I mean that he took Labour from 232 mps to 256 at the cost of plenty of Tory MPs...

Not sure that helped the Tory party....Which is strange because he has helped the Tory party his whole life apparently... laughing

by **superflyweight** Fri 08 Sep 2023, 2:41 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Labour's best chance is to get rid of Khan. Polls had him with big, double digit leads in the run-up to 2021, and it ended up being a lot closer than envisaged, so if he's only got a 1% lead now then that represents a big problem.

Another way to look at it is Khan leads by 33-32, but Labour in a GE in London are leading the same polling by 47-27, so Khan's unpopularity is manifest.

If Corbyn runs for Mayor then he'll be doing what he's done all his political life - helping the Tories.

Like in 2017 when he turned a Tory majority in to a Hung parliament.

I think you mean when he turned the easiest election win opportunity for Labour since 2005 into a loss.

No I think I mean that he took Labour from 232 mps to 256 at the cost of plenty of Tory MPs...

Not sure that helped the Tory party....Which is strange because he has helped the Tory party his whole life apparently...

They really need a slow hand cap emoticon for this site.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 08 Sep 2023, 2:43 pm

superflyweight wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Labour's best chance is to get rid of Khan. Polls had him with big, double digit leads in the run-up to 2021, and it ended up being a lot closer than envisaged, so if he's only got a 1% lead now then that represents a big problem.

Another way to look at it is Khan leads by 33-32, but Labour in a GE in London are leading the same polling by 47-27, so Khan's unpopularity is manifest.

If Corbyn runs for Mayor then he'll be doing what he's done all his political life - helping the Tories.

Like in 2017 when he turned a Tory majority in to a Hung parliament.

I think you mean when he turned the easiest election win opportunity for Labour since 2005 into a loss.

No I think I mean that he took Labour from 232 mps to 256 at the cost of plenty of Tory MPs...

Not sure that helped the Tory party....Which is strange because he has helped the Tory party his whole life apparently...

They really need a slow hand cap emoticon for this site.

For hit and run types ??

by Duty281 Fri 08 Sep 2023, 3:40 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Labour's best chance is to get rid of Khan. Polls had him with big, double digit leads in the run-up to 2021, and it ended up being a lot closer than envisaged, so if he's only got a 1% lead now then that represents a big problem.

Another way to look at it is Khan leads by 33-32, but Labour in a GE in London are leading the same polling by 47-27, so Khan's unpopularity is manifest.

If Corbyn runs for Mayor then he'll be doing what he's done all his political life - helping the Tories.

Like in 2017 when he turned a Tory majority in to a Hung parliament.

I think you mean when he turned the easiest election win opportunity for Labour since 2005 into a loss.

No I think I mean that he took Labour from 232 mps to 256 at the cost of plenty of Tory MPs...

Not sure that helped the Tory party....Which is strange because he has helped the Tory party his whole life apparently...

Wow, whoop-de-doo. Seven years of an unpopular Tory government, the Tories rife with division over Brexit, led by the hopeless Theresa May, and Corbyn pulls off a masterstroke of gaining 24 MPs. Rolling Eyes

by Duty281 Sat 16 Sep 2023, 3:20 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Dorries' constituency of Mid Bedfordshire was 59.8% Tory, 21.7% Labour, 12.6% Lib Dem at the last GE. It's a seat that has been Tory since the 30s, it even remained blue in the 1997 landslide. So it would be a tremendous scalp for Starmer if Labour won the by-election. Even with Labour's polling advantage, I wouldn't expect this to go anything other than blue at a GE, but in a by-election it's well within Labour's capabilities. If we remember the Tiverton by-election, the Tories won by a majority of 40.7% at the 2019 GE, but lost it to the LDs in that by-election. Mid Bedfordshire is a 38.1% majority. So a dollop of tactical voting and some Tory reluctance and Starmer will be laughing.

Seems as though I misjudged Mid Bedfordshire. Despite the Lib Dems finishing 3rd there in 2019, they are the favourites to win the by-election, going in at 8/15, with the Tories 7/4 and Labour 10/1. Suppose because it's rural?

Or maybe I didn't misjudge it. A poll in mid-Bedfordshire has shown Labour 29%, Tories 29%, Lib Dems 22%, and the odds have shifted to the Lib Dems being 6/5, Labour 2/1 and the Tories 12/5.

Just over a quarter of voters are undecided. The anti-Tory vote needs to get behind Labour, or risk splitting it and keeping the Tories in.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 18 Sep 2023, 11:53 am

Duty281 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Dorries' constituency of Mid Bedfordshire was 59.8% Tory, 21.7% Labour, 12.6% Lib Dem at the last GE. It's a seat that has been Tory since the 30s, it even remained blue in the 1997 landslide. So it would be a tremendous scalp for Starmer if Labour won the by-election. Even with Labour's polling advantage, I wouldn't expect this to go anything other than blue at a GE, but in a by-election it's well within Labour's capabilities. If we remember the Tiverton by-election, the Tories won by a majority of 40.7% at the 2019 GE, but lost it to the LDs in that by-election. Mid Bedfordshire is a 38.1% majority. So a dollop of tactical voting and some Tory reluctance and Starmer will be laughing.

Seems as though I misjudged Mid Bedfordshire. Despite the Lib Dems finishing 3rd there in 2019, they are the favourites to win the by-election, going in at 8/15, with the Tories 7/4 and Labour 10/1. Suppose because it's rural?

Or maybe I didn't misjudge it. A poll in mid-Bedfordshire has shown Labour 29%, Tories 29%, Lib Dems 22%, and the odds have shifted to the Lib Dems being 6/5, Labour 2/1 and the Tories 12/5.

Just over a quarter of voters are undecided. The anti-Tory vote needs to get behind Labour, or risk splitting it and keeping the Tories in.

Looks like the two Centrist parties will cancel eachother out.........Labour need to leading in polls like this really to have any chance.......

The uproar over Mad Nad will subside a little and the incumbent party will get undecideds anyway....

Still all three parties will think they can win this.....Smart money is on a Tory hold.........As in Scotland with an SNP hold in that by election.

New poll has the SNP up 5 and Labour down 6...

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 25 Sep 2023, 12:34 pm

Risha umpa lumpa Sunak is cutting inheritance tax......Good news for me but with a standard of living crisis basically crippling the poorest....an NHS on its ****......Immigration out of control and the Country struggling to find a law official that isn't a pervert.....

Is this what these Clowns think is a priority ????...Unbelievable....

by Duty281 Wed 04 Oct 2023, 1:39 pm

What do we think of proposals to raise the smoking age year on year? I saw a YouGov poll which showed most supported the proposal, so is that the general feeling here?

I don't support the proposal because I support people's right of choice, don't think it'll work or make much difference, and I'm curious that society is moving closer and closer to the day when marijuana will be legalised, but tobacco is rapidly heading the other way. And what other heavy restrictions/bans will be around the corner? Takeaways? Gambling? Alcohol? Sugar?

Tories mostly 14-20% behind at present in the polling. Struggling to break 30% nationally. Very Happy

by No name Bertie Wed 04 Oct 2023, 1:58 pm

It is my belief that there needs to be more government transparency and accountability, the government should focus on increasing trade but not in weapons, the funding of instability and wars abroad whether directly or indirectly needs to be stopped, there needs to be a focus on peace and diplomacy (anyone know about the Minsk agreements and why that was originally agreed?). Criminalizing what people want just drives the trade into organized criminal gangs. The prohibition in America following demands by certain lobbyists led to the growth of criminal gangs in America and the wealth associated with that went into controlling law enforcers, the legal system, the political system. The drugs war has resulted in partly failed states in South America.

by lostinwales Wed 04 Oct 2023, 2:44 pm

One thing that seems proven by the events since Feb 22 is that peace is dependent on having an effective military. An effective military is in part dependent on our ability to develop and build up to date weaponry. We cannot depend on the US stepping in to help out or to provide equipment in a timely fashion either. Collaboration on weapon development (like with the NLAW) and weapon sales help to support our defense industry.

Peace isn't free, just cheaper than the alternative.

by Samo Wed 04 Oct 2023, 2:47 pm

Duty281 wrote:What do we think of proposals to raise the smoking age year on year? I saw a YouGov poll which showed most supported the proposal, so is that the general feeling here?

I don't support the proposal because I support people's right of choice, don't think it'll work or make much difference, and I'm curious that society is moving closer and closer to the day when marijuana will be legalised, but tobacco is rapidly heading the other way. And what other heavy restrictions/bans will be around the corner? Takeaways? Gambling? Alcohol? Sugar?

Tories mostly 14-20% behind at present in the polling. Struggling to break 30% nationally.

If you're going to ban smoking its certainly the best way to go about it. Instead of stopping smokers you avoid creating new ones. Makes sense to me, especially as current smokers wont be affected.

However, prohibition never works.

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed 04 Oct 2023, 2:48 pm

Will Sunak require the military to have non-smoking guns?

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 04 Oct 2023, 4:25 pm

Duty281 wrote:What do we think of proposals to raise the smoking age year on year? I saw a YouGov poll which showed most supported the proposal, so is that the general feeling here?

I don't support the proposal because I support people's right of choice, don't think it'll work or make much difference, and I'm curious that society is moving closer and closer to the day when marijuana will be legalised, but tobacco is rapidly heading the other way. And what other heavy restrictions/bans will be around the corner? Takeaways? Gambling? Alcohol? Sugar?

Tories mostly 14-20% behind at present in the polling. Struggling to break 30% nationally.

Agree w/ you on this. Whatever next?! Legal age re. cigarette purchase is already 18. Let people be responsible for their own decisions. Perhaps it doesn't gel w/ idea of the NHS, but nothing much makes any decent sense in the UK anymore.

by Duty281 Wed 04 Oct 2023, 4:46 pm

Samo wrote:
Duty281 wrote:What do we think of proposals to raise the smoking age year on year? I saw a YouGov poll which showed most supported the proposal, so is that the general feeling here?

I don't support the proposal because I support people's right of choice, don't think it'll work or make much difference, and I'm curious that society is moving closer and closer to the day when marijuana will be legalised, but tobacco is rapidly heading the other way. And what other heavy restrictions/bans will be around the corner? Takeaways? Gambling? Alcohol? Sugar?

Tories mostly 14-20% behind at present in the polling. Struggling to break 30% nationally.

If you're going to ban smoking its certainly the best way to go about it. Instead of stopping smokers you avoid creating new ones. Makes sense to me, especially as current smokers wont be affected.

However, prohibition never works.

I'd say if they wanted to ban smoking, then just ban it. This will create a bizarre situation where, for instance, a 38 year old, in the near future, could stockpile a load of cigarettes and sell 'em to those affected by the ban.

Not as if the old bill are going to get involved is it? As you say, prohibition never works.

by Samo Wed 04 Oct 2023, 5:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:
Duty281 wrote:What do we think of proposals to raise the smoking age year on year? I saw a YouGov poll which showed most supported the proposal, so is that the general feeling here?

I don't support the proposal because I support people's right of choice, don't think it'll work or make much difference, and I'm curious that society is moving closer and closer to the day when marijuana will be legalised, but tobacco is rapidly heading the other way. And what other heavy restrictions/bans will be around the corner? Takeaways? Gambling? Alcohol? Sugar?

Tories mostly 14-20% behind at present in the polling. Struggling to break 30% nationally.

If you're going to ban smoking its certainly the best way to go about it. Instead of stopping smokers you avoid creating new ones. Makes sense to me, especially as current smokers wont be affected.

However, prohibition never works.

I'd say if they wanted to ban smoking, then just ban it. This will create a bizarre situation where, for instance, a 38 year old, in the near future, could stockpile a load of cigarettes and sell 'em to those affected by the ban.

Not as if the old bill are going to get involved is it? As you say, prohibition never works.

They obviously make more in taxes from smoking than they spend treating smoking related illnesses or they would have banned it decades ago.

by Duty281 Wed 04 Oct 2023, 8:24 pm

Saw this on X: The year is 2130 and the oldest person in the UK is also the only person who is legally allowed to buy cigarettes.. the pressure of having to manage an entire country's black market supply eventually gets the better of him. His passing is venerated like that of the last Tommy. Laugh

by **Pr4wn** Wed 04 Oct 2023, 10:56 pm

Penny Mourdant with one of the weirdest speeches I've seen in quite some time.

by Samo Thu 05 Oct 2023, 7:55 am

Finally caught up with the Tory conference. Simply incredible.

Blatant lies, making up Labour policies to attack, full on Transphobia, xenophobia and racism that would make Enoch Powell proud and borderline fascism. And that was just the home secretary!

Add on a transport secretary spouting unfounded conspiracy theorist Love sacks about 15 minute cities and we’ve truly crossed the point of no return with this mob. The rot brought on by Johnson isnt going away any time soon.

We need a general election and we need it yesterday.

by Duty281 Thu 05 Oct 2023, 11:53 pm

Good by-election test for Labour today. They're widely expected to gain a seat at the expense of the SNP, ahead of a revival in Scotland at the next GE.

Talking of the next GE, the Tories are expected to announce it for autumn 2024, not spring a slight surprise by holding it in, erm, spring 2024. Just a year to wait then...

According to the Telegraph: "Mr Sunak’s decision to scrap the second leg of HS2, which was due to run from Birmingham to Manchester, is the latest major policy decision in a few weeks.

It is part of a deliberate strategy from No 10 to paint Mr Sunak as the “change” candidate for the next election, with Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer framed as the status quo.

Tory strategists believe that Sir Keir, whose party has been way ahead in the polls all year, has made a miscalculation for not being bolder in announcing eye-catching policy changes.

They hope back-to-back announcements can alter the electoral dynamics, with Mr Sunak cast as a change-maker willing to square with the public on projects that have become unaffordable."

That's quite a hilarious strategy. Trying to paint the man who's been in the treasury or PM for most of the last four and a bit years as the 'change' candidate.

by GSC Fri 06 Oct 2023, 9:32 am

I think they've known it's hopeless since Truss tanked the country in two weeks, Sunak is really nothing more than the guy sent out to take the hit of this defeat since nobody with any serious future prospects is touching this. Come up with whatever strategy you want.

Pretty painful defeat for the snp, lot of work for Humza to do before the GE after the last year they've had

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 06 Oct 2023, 9:55 am

Pr4wn wrote:Penny Mourdant with one of the weirdest speeches I've seen in quite some time.

And to think she was seen as a strong contender for the leadership!

If she stands again, I doubt she'd get it. A post-defeat Tory leader is going to be one of the headbangers.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 06 Oct 2023, 9:57 am

Duty281 wrote:Good by-election test for Labour today. They're widely expected to gain a seat at the expense of the SNP, ahead of a revival in Scotland at the next GE.

Talking of the next GE, the Tories are expected to announce it for autumn 2024, not spring a slight surprise by holding it in, erm, spring 2024. Just a year to wait then...

According to the Telegraph: "Mr Sunak’s decision to scrap the second leg of HS2, which was due to run from Birmingham to Manchester, is the latest major policy decision in a few weeks.

It is part of a deliberate strategy from No 10 to paint Mr Sunak as the “change” candidate for the next election, with Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer framed as the status quo.

Tory strategists believe that Sir Keir, whose party has been way ahead in the polls all year, has made a miscalculation for not being bolder in announcing eye-catching policy changes.

They hope back-to-back announcements can alter the electoral dynamics, with Mr Sunak cast as a change-maker willing to square with the public on projects that have become unaffordable."

That's quite a hilarious strategy. Trying to paint the man who's been in the treasury or PM for most of the last four and a bit years as the 'change' candidate.

On top of that, they've been attacking Starmer for his supposed lack of personality, as if their man doesn't have the charisma of a pebble.

by Samo Fri 06 Oct 2023, 10:18 am

A bloody nose for the SNP, but maybe still too early to tell if its a sign of things to come. Its a worse result for the Tories who didnt even get their deposit back.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 06 Oct 2023, 10:25 am

I think it's time to formalise rules/Laws for politicians (and wannabe politicians) re. lying. It used to be accepted that one didn't, or if one did, one resigned etc. No longer. The continual lying, from politicians of all stripes is corroding what's an already weak trust in politicians and the political process.

While we're at it, I'd like to see any GE (or local election for an MP) manifesto as a legally binding document, with an independent body of some sort to rule on any attempt to alter action on any manifesto commitment. There'll be valid reasons to change course sometimes, but I wouldn't trust any politician to decide on the justifications for doing so.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 06 Oct 2023, 10:27 am

Samo wrote:A bloody nose for the SNP, but maybe still too early to tell if its a sign of things to come. Its a worse result for the Tories who didnt even get their deposit back.

It's the perfect result for Labour to have got in the week of the Conservative party conference. It's only one constituency, but still, it's one of the two major parties making progress and the other... not.

by Duty281 Fri 06 Oct 2023, 10:39 am

A really good result for Labour, exceeding expectations on the margin of the win and highlighting that many gains are ahead in Scotland next year. SNP's decline continues.

by Duty281 Fri 06 Oct 2023, 12:45 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:I think it's time to formalise rules/Laws for politicians (and wannabe politicians) re. lying. It used to be accepted that one didn't, or if one did, one resigned etc. No longer. The continual lying, from politicians of all stripes is corroding what's an already weak trust in politicians and the political process.

While we're at it, I'd like to see any GE (or local election for an MP) manifesto as a legally binding document, with an independent body of some sort to rule on any attempt to alter action on any manifesto commitment. There'll be valid reasons to change course sometimes, but I wouldn't trust any politician to decide on the justifications for doing so.

When was this golden age of politicians who lied would resign for doing so? Politicians have always lied. We're probably a bit more aware of it now, but lying does appear to have gone stratospheric since the days of Blair/Campbell, and social media has further amplified it. A big problem is many people are tribal, so they don't mind their side lying and won't call it out. Would also add many people do nil research if a claim supports their view and blindly retweet it/spread it around. Very concerning times ahead, especially with deepfake videos about to become much more prominent.

Not sure the validity of making a manifesto legally binding with how much circumstances can alter.. Would probably lead to politicians making informal promises as an alternative measure.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 06 Oct 2023, 2:12 pm

Big win for Labour last night dulled by the shocking turnout...

Corbyn got more votes in 2017 and won the seat in 2017.... but give Starmer the chance to say it's a renaissance anyway....

after all the 2017 election never existed.

by Duty281 Fri 06 Oct 2023, 2:16 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Big win for Labour last night dulled by the shocking turnout...

Corbyn got more votes in 2017 and won the seat in 2017.... but give Starmer the chance to say it's a renaissance anyway....

after all the 2017 election never existed.

By-elections in low turnout shocker. It was hardly a shocking turnout for a by election in poor weather.

Starmer's Labour got 58.6% of the vote, over 20% better than Corbyn in 2017 (an election that Labour lost), and won back the seat lost by Corbyn's Labour in 2019.

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 06 Oct 2023, 2:16 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Big win for Labour last night dulled by the shocking turnout...

Corbyn got more votes in 2017 and won the seat in 2017.... but give Starmer the chance to say it's a renaissance anyway....

after all the 2017 election never existed.

Who was the Labour leader when they lost it in 2019?

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 06 Oct 2023, 2:18 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Big win for Labour last night dulled by the shocking turnout...

Corbyn got more votes in 2017 and won the seat in 2017.... but give Starmer the chance to say it's a renaissance anyway....

after all the 2017 election never existed.

By-elections in low turnout shocker. It was hardly a shocking turnout for a by election in poor weather.

Starmer's Labour got 58.6% of the vote, over 20% better than Corbyn in 2017 (an election that Labour lost), and won back the seat lost by Corbyn's Labour in 2019.

3/4 of SNP supporters stayed home.......SNP were on 45% in the polls when Corbyn won the seat.....

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 06 Oct 2023, 2:27 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Big win for Labour last night dulled by the shocking turnout...

Corbyn got more votes in 2017 and won the seat in 2017.... but give Starmer the chance to say it's a renaissance anyway....

after all the 2017 election never existed.

Who was the Labour leader when they lost it in 2019?

The guy who was screwed by fake antisemitism garbage...Had all the press lying about him and had the current muppet lose the red wall through his Brexit stance stupidity...

and yet still got more votes and vote share than Brown and Miliband...... thumbsup

by Duty281 Fri 06 Oct 2023, 2:29 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Big win for Labour last night dulled by the shocking turnout...

Corbyn got more votes in 2017 and won the seat in 2017.... but give Starmer the chance to say it's a renaissance anyway....

after all the 2017 election never existed.

By-elections in low turnout shocker. It was hardly a shocking turnout for a by election in poor weather.

Starmer's Labour got 58.6% of the vote, over 20% better than Corbyn in 2017 (an election that Labour lost), and won back the seat lost by Corbyn's Labour in 2019.

3/4 of SNP supporters stayed home.......SNP were on 45% in the polls when Corbyn won the seat.....

The SNP won 36.9% in 2017 in Scotland in the 2017 GE (not 45%), when Corbyn won the seat. They're currently polling at around that same figure, or just higher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Scotland.

by Duty281 Fri 06 Oct 2023, 2:30 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Big win for Labour last night dulled by the shocking turnout...

Corbyn got more votes in 2017 and won the seat in 2017.... but give Starmer the chance to say it's a renaissance anyway....

after all the 2017 election never existed.

Who was the Labour leader when they lost it in 2019?

The guy who was screwed by fake antisemitism garbage...Had all the press lying about him and had the current muppet lose the red wall through his Brexit stance stupidity...

and yet still got more votes and vote share than Brown and Miliband......

Still don't understand context, I see...

Not sure the worth of comparing to two election losers, either. That's like painting Theresa May as a genius by comparing her to Hague or Howard.

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 06 Oct 2023, 2:32 pm

All I can say about Corbyn is that I'm centre-left and there is no way I'd have voted for him - not because of anything in the media, but because of his policies and lack of leadership qualities. I'm pretty sure Labour lost a huge number of moderate voters for the same reasons.

by **superflyweight** Fri 06 Oct 2023, 3:15 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:All I can say about Corbyn is that I'm centre-left and there is no way I'd have voted for him - not because of anything in the media, but because of his policies and lack of leadership qualities. I'm pretty sure Labour lost a huge number of moderate voters for the same reasons.

That and the fact that I tend not to want to vote for someone who never got over the fact that they couldn't hang around the student union anymore in case they look like a pervert.

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 06 Oct 2023, 3:20 pm

superflyweight wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:All I can say about Corbyn is that I'm centre-left and there is no way I'd have voted for him - not because of anything in the media, but because of his policies and lack of leadership qualities. I'm pretty sure Labour lost a huge number of moderate voters for the same reasons.

That and the fact that I tend not to want to vote for someone who never got over the fact that they couldn't hang around the student union anymore in case they look like a pervert.

That's why I don't run for Parliament.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 06 Oct 2023, 4:04 pm

We see what we see..... thumbsup

enjoy the weekend.

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 06 Oct 2023, 4:08 pm

I know a Labour local councillor who voted Tory in the 2019 election because he couldn't stand Corbyn and his cronies.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 06 Oct 2023, 4:33 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:I think it's time to formalise rules/Laws for politicians (and wannabe politicians) re. lying. It used to be accepted that one didn't, or if one did, one resigned etc. No longer. The continual lying, from politicians of all stripes is corroding what's an already weak trust in politicians and the political process.

While we're at it, I'd like to see any GE (or local election for an MP) manifesto as a legally binding document, with an independent body of some sort to rule on any attempt to alter action on any manifesto commitment. There'll be valid reasons to change course sometimes, but I wouldn't trust any politician to decide on the justifications for doing so.

That's not really enforceable, is it? What if the manifesto contains a big borrow and spend package and, a year after said government takes power, there's an economic crash like 2007/8? Would that legally binding spending package still have to happen even if it might bankrupt the country?

by **superflyweight** Fri 06 Oct 2023, 6:45 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:All I can say about Corbyn is that I'm centre-left and there is no way I'd have voted for him - not because of anything in the media, but because of his policies and lack of leadership qualities. I'm pretty sure Labour lost a huge number of moderate voters for the same reasons.

That and the fact that I tend not to want to vote for someone who never got over the fact that they couldn't hang around the student union anymore in case they look like a pervert.

That's why I don't run for Parliament.

It's why I voted against myself at the last election.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 09 Oct 2023, 9:50 am

Pr4wn wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I think it's time to formalise rules/Laws for politicians (and wannabe politicians) re. lying. It used to be accepted that one didn't, or if one did, one resigned etc. No longer. The continual lying, from politicians of all stripes is corroding what's an already weak trust in politicians and the political process.

While we're at it, I'd like to see any GE (or local election for an MP) manifesto as a legally binding document, with an independent body of some sort to rule on any attempt to alter action on any manifesto commitment. There'll be valid reasons to change course sometimes, but I wouldn't trust any politician to decide on the justifications for doing so.

That's not really enforceable, is it? What if the manifesto contains a big borrow and spend package and, a year after said government takes power, there's an economic crash like 2007/8? Would that legally binding spending package still have to happen even if it might bankrupt the country?

Hence my suggestion for some sort of independent body to oversee changes of tack. I'm just fed up of lying. What's the point of a manifesto? What's the point of a single word that comes out of any politician's mouth these days?

by **Pal Joey** Mon 09 Oct 2023, 10:28 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I think it's time to formalise rules/Laws for politicians (and wannabe politicians) re. lying. It used to be accepted that one didn't, or if one did, one resigned etc. No longer. The continual lying, from politicians of all stripes is corroding what's an already weak trust in politicians and the political process.

While we're at it, I'd like to see any GE (or local election for an MP) manifesto as a legally binding document, with an independent body of some sort to rule on any attempt to alter action on any manifesto commitment. There'll be valid reasons to change course sometimes, but I wouldn't trust any politician to decide on the justifications for doing so.

That's not really enforceable, is it? What if the manifesto contains a big borrow and spend package and, a year after said government takes power, there's an economic crash like 2007/8? Would that legally binding spending package still have to happen even if it might bankrupt the country?
Hence my suggestion for some sort of independent body to oversee changes of tack. I'm just fed up of lying. What's the point of a manifesto? What's the point of a single word that comes out of any politician's mouth these days?

I know exactly what you're saying and how you're feeling.

What's really frustrating and annoying is the growing trend of politicians blowing it out of both ends... talking about transparency and accountability on the one hand and then brazenly denying they said something or attempting to qualify (or add nuance) to their own words which are clearly on the record or available for all to see or listen to.

Not sure what the solution is though. So called independent bodies can be stacked favouring the incumbent politician (or Party) or the revelation of 'truth' can be obscured by design if such a body has a narrow scope of reference with the intention of not digging too deep or revealing any serious untruths. This is happening here with the covid inquiry - and some people are fuming that it's not a proper full-blown royal commission. In other words, it's just ticking the box, sweeping it under the carpet and hoping people will simply forget about those times and move on. It's not right.

The negative affect of this sort of governmental rule / behaviour is that is can also encourage more honest ones to follow suit and further blur the truth if called up for questioning. Maybe it's just a human nature or a self preservation thing? I'm pretty sure the same or even worse behaviour happened in the past but for parts of the 20th C... with all the turmoil and change... there seemed to be more politicians in the Western world with more dignity, decorum and honesty than there is today.

I'm probably wrong though. Perhaps they were simply more skilled liars and political obfuscators? And today's ones are cheap, mass produced imitations who are well aware the media cycle will turn away from them if they can ride out the political storms for shorter periods and then reappear as if nothing has happened - thinking they now have a clean slate... or that other politician's slates carry more filth? It's a very dirty old world...

by lostinwales Mon 09 Oct 2023, 2:26 pm

superflyweight wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:All I can say about Corbyn is that I'm centre-left and there is no way I'd have voted for him - not because of anything in the media, but because of his policies and lack of leadership qualities. I'm pretty sure Labour lost a huge number of moderate voters for the same reasons.

That and the fact that I tend not to want to vote for someone who never got over the fact that they couldn't hang around the student union anymore in case they look like a pervert.

Wiki wrote:Corbyn began a course in Trade Union Studies at North London Polytechnic but left after a year without a degree after a series of arguments with his tutors over the curriculum

by Duty281 Tue 10 Oct 2023, 2:18 pm

Quite concerning how easy it was for a protester to get close to Starmer.

Security should be tighter.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 10 Oct 2023, 3:36 pm

Duty281 wrote:Quite concerning how easy it was for a protester to get close to Starmer.

Security should be tighter.

Did you post that just before they arrested you?

by Duty281 Tue 10 Oct 2023, 3:45 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Quite concerning how easy it was for a protester to get close to Starmer.

Security should be tighter.

Did you post that just before they arrested you?

On the advice of my solicitor, I will be offering no comment at this stage.

by Duty281 Thu 12 Oct 2023, 11:37 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67087840

Tories have gained an MP....from the SNP.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 12 Oct 2023, 2:26 pm

So these 40 beheaded babies on the front of every broadsheet can't be verified..

So much for journalism.....6,000 deaths in the last ten years and 95% have been Palestinian......Despite Hamas not being a representation hundreds of thousands of people will have no water or electricity which is against international law.

The West moan about Russia breaking laws......Hypocrisy at its best.

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