Scotland World Cup buildup

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Italy
Saturday 29 July

Scotland v France
Saturday 5 August

France v Scotland
Saturday 12 August

Scotland v Georgia
Saturday 26 August

I think it's only fair to start another thread for this topic because I can see it being a popular topic in terms of discussion .

First things first is that 3 wins from 5 and a 3rd place finish probably exceeded expectations because most would have said 2 wins and the 4th place win, the one that most would have called was England to beat us as they were at home so imho we certainly deserve enormous credit for that one because we played very well against an England team that also had their moments, in fact I could already see improvements from the Eddie Jones era during that game and until DVDM clinched it at the death, I was still pretty worried we wouldn't win so was understandably over the moon that we did win.

The Wales and Italy matches were mixed bags tbh but we did get 5pts from both which was crucial, the Welsh game we didn't really perform first half and were in fact fortunate to go in at half time ahead but second half we were excellent and deserved the bonus point win.  The Italy game was a mixed bag in terms of; we had patches where we did well and others where we were hanging on, such as the last 2mins, I also felt that in that game our top centre pairing of Huwipulotu were quiet in attack though DVDM was a bit more involved that he had been in the previous few weeks before.

The France game was bloody frustrating because we showed glimpses of how well we can play especially in the second half for large parts but we were guilty of missing key opportunities and indiscipline from the captain of all people was our undoing which is where the frustration comes because as fans, we expect our captain to know what the ref will tolerate in terms of backchat!

The Ireland game was a game of 2 halfs, in the first half we were going toe to toe with them, it was probably the best we've played against them in a very long time; second half was a completely different story, we basically just capitalutated and handed the game to them with basic errors and more stupid indiscipline.

In terms of the coach, I have made my feelings known and really hope that the situation is resolved by at least mid to late April as we really need clarity on the situation!

Finally, for the summer warm up matches I'd like to see fringe players like Cameron Henderson, Ben Healy, Stafford McDowall, Kyle Rowe and Ollie Smith get some game time to see what they can offer either at the world cup (unlikely) or next 6N in 2024 .

I've not missed the Bryan Habana ads.

Well.... on the bright side... this is perfect preparation for the Boks and Ireland matches. The France defence is suffocating us. The constant pressure on our lineout is preventing us building any attacking momentum. Their counterattack are clinical.
Toonie needs to earn his wages right now by tweaking a couple of things and the team responding to them.

Bit lucky in the initial rolling from Graham after the tackle but at least it keeps it interesting.

This bunker review is silly. Just look at it now and assess whether it's red or yellow.

So this new review. Is this done by a separate tmo or does it mean no ones checking the game up until he's back?

If the Fagerson yellow becomes red, that would not be good. That was a shot to the noggin.

It was dangerous - I get that, and that is the most important thing. We had the tackle off the ball at the end of that move which is effectively forgotten about

Looks like someone put a little jet fuel in their water bottles after the pen.

Was that whole process really less disruptive to the game than just reviewing and deciding on the spot? I’m not convinced

That last angle shows how stupid he was.

So what advantage is there of reviewing a yellow/red card this way, over the old system? Just felt like no one had an issue with the old way it was done.

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Was that whole process really less disruptive to the game than just reviewing and deciding on the spot? I’m not convinced

Agree, no real benefit.

The annoying thing is he’s done this before. Twát.

I’d play Nel and Berghan in the World Cup as we’ll struggle in all our games with 14 men on the field.

Utter shame as we’ve come right back into this and now it’s Going to be tough.

Duty281 wrote:So what advantage is there of reviewing a yellow/red card this way, over the old system? Just felt like no one had an issue with the old way it was done.

It's felt that it will avoid mistakes like the Steward red vs Ireland...but ignores the fact that it takes away 2 or 3 other officials who have the chance to discuss.

Scotland are playing like the Harlem Globetrotters, Kinghorn is some baller!

What was said to Finn at half time? He was ok in the first half but in this second half he's playing like a man possessed.

TMO incorrect, they weren't playing penalty advantage at the time of that knock-on.

Duty281 wrote:TMO incorrect, they weren't playing penalty advantage at the time of that knock-on.

Looked that way to me as well. Ref didn't seem convinced either.

More Scottish points seems inevitable at this point.

Well the tmo is having a mixed game. Correcting some missed calls but yeah that knock on was before the pen.

Have enjoyed listening to Yannick Nyanga on commentary

Mcsweens wrote:Have enjoyed listening to Yannick Nyanga on commentary

Agreed, nice to have people who know what they’re talking about as pundits!

Well that was a hard fought win

Think Zander has demoted himself to the bench. His instructions will be when going on to tackle and scrum but don’t do anything silly.

Some confusing tactics from France at the end. They decide for a scrum after a penalty and win another penalty from it. Instead of scrumming again, they opt for a lineout and take on Scotland's strong maul defence. Then they fail to go wide in possession. Wouldn't have known it was France that were the man up.

Very good comeback from Scotland. Game of two halves. Would have been a bigger margin if not for the red.

Missed most of that, got to the pub and Scotland were down a man and in the lead with 2 mins to go. Good win, you can’t ask for more against the French.

Duty281 wrote:So what advantage is there of reviewing a yellow/red card this way, over the old system? Just felt like no one had an issue with the old way it was done.

Saves time. gives the 5th official 10 mins to review. I'm in favour

We can take a lot of positive from how we managed to turn that around, but Barclay is right if we give Ireland or SA that sort of lead in the first half we’ll give ourselves too much of a mountain to climb. Still work to be done then, but got to be happy with the 2nd half showing and result.

One problem we’re going to have now is making sure Kinghorn gets time at 15 for Edinburgh with a certain Mr Boffelli also in the squad

It was a proper game of two halves.

Wee hornito made a difference
Redpath distributed well (worried that Tuipulotu was a one season wonder)
Applause to big R Gray for another 80 min performance.

Dunno if this was an inspired half time team talk from Gregor or if Finn went off script in the second half again. Excuse the pun but right now it’s us who are the box of frogs. You just don’t know what we’re going to do or how we’re going to play.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well the tmo is having a mixed game. Correcting some missed calls but yeah that knock on was before the pen.

there was an earlier advantage but in the middle of the field. 2 advantages in that passage.

TMO should have carded the french 14 for the swinging arm on the falling Ben White. 2other hightackles missed as well. I'm sure a french fan will see things missed that they should have got. It all evens out

TJ wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well the tmo is having a mixed game. Correcting some missed calls but yeah that knock on was before the pen.

there was an earlier advantage but in the middle of the field.  2 advantages in that passage.

TMO should have carded the french 14 for the swinging arm on the falling Ben White.  2other hightackles missed as well.  I'm sure a french fan will see things missed that they should have got.  It all evens out

Oh yeah the French lost because of themselves.

TJ wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well the tmo is having a mixed game. Correcting some missed calls but yeah that knock on was before the pen.

there was an earlier advantage but in the middle of the field.  2 advantages in that passage.

TMO should have carded the french 14 for the swinging arm on the falling Ben White.  2other hightackles missed as well.  I'm sure a french fan will see things missed that they should have got.  It all evens out

Just checked back as well. You're wrong. Scrum from Scotland out to the knock on then the pen for holding on.

Think the nature of the win disguises that we handed a substantial lead to France B. It felt in the first half that the forward were playing not to be injured rather than to win.

Gilchrist and Dempsey were poor and the starting front row really struggled to impose themselves in the loose in the first half. Our scrum was good but our attacking line-out remains too inconsistent. The maul defence was a highlight for me, thought we were excellent.

Zander was dumb but not sure how that was a red and the swinging arm from the France 14 was a penalty only. Zander's was worse but the degree of danger between the two was not that wide. Hopefully it is a two week ban as we really need him for SA.

If we can play like we did in the second half for 80 minutes, SA and Ireland are in trouble. Our forwards had impetus and it created space for Kinghorn and Graham who were both excellent. If we play like the first half for 20-30 minutes, we will be too far behind for it to matter

Well that was dull as ditchwater. Predictable as seeing tigertattie waiting for Greggs to open.
The only interesting moments were the decision to kick the penalties for the first and last points. Very sensible decisions made by Captain Sensible
Hornito did well but his box kicks are even shorter than he is.
Matt Fagerson put in a heck of a defensive shift.
The lineout defence was much improved in the second half.
Redpath probably shoved Stafford off the bus.
The forward replacements all made a case for themselves. Hamish will have nightmares about Rory Darge getting over that last ruck and coming up with the 7 jersey in his hands.

ADHD Kid, Matt F, Dancer, Darge, Doohie, Blarehorn can sit out the next two games.

Well that was dull as ditchwater. Predictable as seeing tigertattie waiting for Greggs to open.
The only interesting moments were the decision to kick the penalties for the first and last points. Very sensible decisions made by Captain Sensible
Hornito did well but his box kicks are even shorter than he is.
Matt Fagerson put in a heck of a defensive shift.
The lineout defence was much improved in the second half.
Redpath probably shoved Stafford off the bus.
The forward replacements all made a case for themselves. Hamish will have nightmares about Rory Darge getting over that last ruck and coming up with the 7 jersey in his hands.

ADHD Kid, Matt F, Dancer, Darge, Doohie, Blarehorn can sit out the next two games.

Well I certainly did not see that coming at HT.

Good atmosphere at Murrayfield today, the crowd really got benind the team I thought.

Crazy old game though, but good to see we are a hard side to put away. I guess you got to remember that for most of those players, it was their first game as well.

Next week will be different gravy though

Watched highlights of the first half then the full second half. Great to come back and get the win but not ideal we went so far behind in the first place.

Fagerson red was definitely a red but for me it was at the low end of severity. He has had a red for this previously though so he'll be lucky to escape anything less than a 3 match ban. He gave away a couple of stupid penalties too before that which he's.prone to do. One of the key moments of the match was when Nel held up the scrum down to 7 men when the French didn't hook - they tried a second shove but didn't get anywhere. Nel is still a beast!

I liked the impact off the bench and that's going to be so important for the big pool games. You need to survive the first 50 minute onslaught from Ireland and SA and use your bench to make a difference. Darge makes great impact off the bench which may suggest Ritchie will start at 7 then move across to 6 when he comes on.

Finn probably had the most sensible match I've ever seen and did well with the ref. Maybe making him captain is a masterstroke of a decision!

Kinghorn and Darcy were outstanding and are so dangerous out wide. Darcy just gets involved in everything and we're a much less threatening team without him.

Good to get the win but concerns over the White injury and Fagerson red. Brutal test to come next week!

The more I think about it, the less the Fagerson red bothers me. It's like when big Jim used to play and get us in unnecessary fights. I think Zander is too much of a penalty liability and as you said RDW Nel still has it (maybe not for 80 though!). Even if we lose Zander for SA I'm not sure whether it'll impact our ability to win or increase the likelihood we'll lose. Sebastian did well enough that I wouldn't be overly concerned with him on the bench.

That being said do we have enough space in the squad for 3 tightheads? That'd be my only concern because we definitely need two for SA!!

His first penalty was so stupid - taking a player out past the ruck. That should never happen from an international level player. The 2nd was hon flopping over the ruck.

The red itself was also from him being a bit lazy and not getting into a good position.

It's a shame really because he'd be a world class player if he wasn't so daft. It is the one aspect of his game that is so poor and unfortunately the one aspect that actually has the most impact!

Also really concerned about our lineout. That will definitely lose us games, we're lucky it didn't this time around but Ireland certainly will be looking forward to taking advantage.

On a brighter note agree with the sentiments that kinghorn was great, perhaps Hogg holding the jersey even out of form was enough time for kinghorn to come of age, and whatever we think about his stint at 10 it's definitely given him a more rounded awareness of the game!

I am happy with king Blairhorn being given that time at 10 - apart from anything else it means we have a backup should Finn the king of flash gits be injured and means we do not need a specialist 10 on the bench.

a 6:2 split on the bench means a 9 and a utility back - Harris could be our supersub

Oh forgot to say - would love to see Redpath get a proper go from the start. He looks a bit lost coming on with 20 minutes left as it's hard to get yourself into the game.

He looks in great shape too - he looks an absolute unit now.

RDW wrote:Weird seeing a Scotland v France game without Mohamed Haouas and Jamie Ritchie's face.


Where are the red cards going to come from!

Our stupid tighthead prop, apparently.

The Time Lord really fecced us for the Boks match.

We have WP who can't possibly last more than 40 against the Boks (45 max against any other top tier side).
Javan Sebastian who looks a decent prop, in the WP mould, but is very inexperienced at international level.
Murphy Walker who is barely more than a single cell embryo in prop terms.

I wouldn't like to be Ragnar this morning...I bet more than one of his teammates threw their Full Scottish at him if he dared show his face at breakfast.

I dunno I think having someone else (Javan) mark a claim on tighthead will be the rocket up zanders that he needs. He may not be experienced at international but he's had a good amount of time at club. Ultimately it's a professional sport and he will be playing guys he's played at club level, I'm confident he can step up in Ragnar's absence.

Zander will likely get a 4 or 5 week ban. He’s done it before so being nice biscuits to the hearing won’t work. Plus I’m sure they still do them on zoom anyway.

France (in Paris) and the Georgia are perfect games to try other props out. Zander could find he’s surplus to requirements. He may be “the best scrummager” we have but I’d rather play with 15

tigertattie wrote:Zander will likely get a 4 or 5 week ban. He’s done it before so being nice biscuits to the hearing won’t work. Plus I’m sure they still do them on zoom anyway.

France (in Paris) and the Georgia are perfect games to try other props out. Zander could find he’s surplus to requirements. He may be “the best scrummager” we have but I’d rather play with 15

Agreed. Like chuckles before him, he suffers from too many rushes of blood to the head to the teams detriment. If you're going to play close to the line be smart about it, don't make your team take penalty after penalty. Even if he's not carded he contributes at least one or two stupid penalties a game, which if you consider the good games we've won we've kept the penalty count generally below 10, is not good enough.

NeilyBroon wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Zander will likely get a 4 or 5 week ban. He’s done it before so being nice biscuits to the hearing won’t work. Plus I’m sure they still do them on zoom anyway.

France (in Paris) and the Georgia are perfect games to try other props out. Zander could find he’s surplus to requirements. He may be “the best scrummager” we have but I’d rather play with 15

Agreed. Like chuckles before him, he suffers from too many rushes of blood to the head to the teams detriment. If you're going to play close to the line be smart about it, don't make your team take penalty after penalty. Even if he's not carded he contributes at least one or two stupid penalties a game, which if you consider the good games we've won we've kept the penalty count generally below 10, is not good enough.

4 penalties he got yesterday. And that’s with only playing just over half a game. The Shoe had 0, nel had one (at scrum time). Hell even GG who many bemoan about giving them away only gave away 1.

So the entire front row and their replacements gave away 5 penalties the whole match and 4 of them were Zander. That’s simply not good enough. Best scrummager or not, that liability cannot be taken to World Cup games.

Great performance yesterday … in the second half. The impact from the bench was a really big positive I thought. Redpath once again looked very sharp and was noticeably involved at the breakdown. Darge to me is looking a lot better than Watson on current form. Horne did well coming on early for White and let’s hope he isn’t out for too long. That may open the door for Dobie. A gréât test overall for the team.

I was going to say what about gilcrest - he is also a stupid penalty machine that has cost us games

So Hastings has been dropped meaning Healy is presumably confirmed as back up FH. Shame for Hastings but he's had a lot of down time the last couple of years. Bit of bad luck with an immovable incumbent combined with a toonie weirdness project in Kinghorn. Now Healy is on the scene it's hard to see him forcing his way in to future squads barring injury, unless he wins the prem with Gloucester.

Love those press reports in the mainstream rugby press.

It didn't take most until the second paragraph to ram home that this was "a second string French side" or somesuch. Can't let us enjoy a victory eh, lads?

Zander should mention at the disciplinary committee that he once shook hands with Jonathan Sexton. That should be the association he needs to commute his naughty step time.