Premiership Playoffs 2023

The 2022-2023 season - Thank goodness it's over.  Probably the worst season in Premiership history, or certainly after the first few.  Two teams folding, blatant inconsistencies officiating cards spoiling games, on-going concerns about salary cap violations, top players starting an exodus to France, all backdropped by the financial weakness of the entire on-going operation.  Waiting for the damned thing to slowly end seemed at times like fingernails on a chalkboard (as opposed to marker on a whiteboard).  

At least the Rugby gods have come good and shown us all they have a sense of humour:  Saints sneaking into the last playoff spot with the second most point scored in the Premiership and the second most points surrendered.  UFB.  But, at least this shows in an incontrovertible manner that the Rugby gods, at least some time, do wear Black, Green, & Gold!

Saturday, May 13:  saracens-Saints, Stone Ex Salary Cap Cheater Stadium
Sunday, May 14:  Sale-Tigers, AJ Bell Stadium (Salford)
Saturday, May 20:  Watch French and Irish dudes play with each other
Saturday, May 27:  Tigers-Saints, Twickenham Courtney Lawes Stadium, for the Championship of the East Midlands, Mercia, England, and the World.  

Oh yeah.  Discuss....

In the unlikely event Saints make it to Twickers won't Lawes be injured again?

Two home wins has got to be the odds on favourite for this weekend. Sarries are the run away winners in the league and Saints concede points and penalties at an alarming rate. Sale have done the double over Tigers and made it look comfortable on both occasions.

Despite a lot of the bleak off field stuff there's been some good games this season. The Prem is still a good watch a lot of the time. Hopefully the off field finances came be sorted and the game can grow.

I think it might depend on how inventive the coaching gets. Quins beat Sale by repeatedly putting the ball behind their forwards with contestable kicks that nullified both their power advantage and their defensive system.
I don’t hold out much hope for Saints against Sarries, though, but I’ll be rooting for them.

That Sarries backrow doesn't look as strong as it usually is. Saints have gone for the 6:2 bench split as well which suggests they might look to pressure the Sarries pack.

Sale Sharks Starting XV:

15. Joe Carpenter, 14. Tom Roebuck, 13. Rob du Preez, 12. Manu Tuilagi, 11. Arron Reed, 10. George Ford, 9. Gus Warr; 1. Simon McIntyre, 2. Akker van der Merwe, 3. Nick Schonert, 4. Jean-Luc du Preez, 5. Jonny Hill, 6. Tom Curry, 7. Ben Curry (C), 8. Jono Ross.

Replacements:

16. Ewan Ashman, 17. Bevan Rodd, 18. Coenie Oosthuizen, 19. Josh Beaumont, 20. Daniel du Preez, 21. Raffi Quirke, 22. Sam James, 23. Tom O’Flaherty

15 Freddie Steward [71]
14 Anthony Watson [15]
13 Matt Scott [65]
12 Dan Kelly [55]
11 Harry Potter [66]
10 Handré Pollard [14]
9 Ben Youngs [301]
1 Tom West [10]
2 Julián Montoya (c) [43]
3 Dan Cole [309]
4 George Martin [57]
5 Cameron Henderson [36]
6 Hanro Liebenberg [84]
7 Tommy Reffell [99]
8 Jasper Wiese [60]

REPLACEMENTS
16 Charlie Clare [78]
17 James Cronin [15]
18 Joe Heyes [123]
19 Harry Wells [176]
20 Olly Cracknell [24]
21 Jack van Poortvliet [65]
22 Jimmy Gopperth [17]
23 Guy Porter [58]

formerly known as Sam wrote:In the unlikely event Saints make it to Twickers won't Lawes be injured again?

50:50

I'd have Sale slight favourites at home against Tigers.

There are fantastic matchups across the board there though. The breakdown in particular with Sale fielding both Curry's whilst Tigers have Reffell and Montoya. Both packs are very physical so I expect the battle to get over/hold the gain line around the ruck to be brutal.

Ford vs Pollard will be fantastic to watch.

Interesting that McIntyre starts. I really rate Rodd, love his breakdown work, but his scrummaging is the clear weak point. I'd have expected Cole to find some joy there had the younger man started.

I'm very surprised and as a Tigers fan fairly pleased to see O'Flaherty on the bench though!

Steward vs the impressive Carpenter will be fun too.

Manu vs Kelly perhaps a telling matchup for RWC selection purposes?

I need to check if the stats back this up but I feel both sides are good at holding leads but not so great chasing. So if either team can get ahead by 10 I'd be surprised if it were surrendered. Sale's goal line defence can be absolutely brilliant.

formerly known as Sam wrote:That Sarries backrow doesn't look as strong as it usually is. Saints have gone for the 6:2 bench split as well which suggests they might look to pressure the Sarries pack.

My first thought also. Billy and McFarland (he was incredible at the start of the season!) are massive blows but Christie (who's also had a cracking season) is the extra kick in the nuggets there.

Sarries at home and with their clinical edge against the Saints 'defence' are still big favourites. But when I see those teams my first takeaway is the Saints back row looking significantly more physical than Sarries. That's not usually the case.

Quite surprised that's just a pen. Mistimed yes but Furbank does take an elbow to the face.

Oh good, we get a refereeing incident after 39 seconds. Looked like an elbow to the face, albeit he didn't swing the elbow. Just a penalty. I'm surprised.

Saracens look to have the beating of Northampton any time they go wide.

aaaaasrrrgh!

I'm going out (thank goodness) - have a match at 1:00pm I tried to get pushed until later in the afternoon (it's only 11:00am here ffs), but the blydi Yanks on the other teams said no. Probably have to be home to bake their scones. And do their nails and iron their undies.

p.s Saracens are spawn of the devil. just sayin'

Just far too easy for saracens. Northampton just completely switch off, their forwards look knackered already, or at least can't be arsed getting into position and actually tackle. Their carrying is OK.

Bit late tuning in but the Saints forwards look incompetent. Has that been the story throughout?

What was Waller thinking for that third Sarries try? He shouldn't be surprised if the shepherd's crook comes for him after that. Moronic.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Bit late tuning in but the Saints forwards look incompetent. Has that been the story throughout?

What was Waller thinking for that third Sarries try? He shouldn't be surprised if the shepherd's crook comes for him after that. Moronic.

Yes to the story.

Since I saw people discussing the fitness levels in the Premiership on here, I cannot unsee it when I watch the matches. Saints are blowing out of their @rses. I get that they've been under the pump, but they were pretty much walking to rucks towards the end of that half, there just seems to be no support when there is a half break either. I'm pretty neutral in this game, but even I've found myself thinking 'you're in a semi final, bloody liven up!'

On twitter, Andy Goode is slagging off Karl Dickson.

Rugby Fan wrote:On twitter, Andy Goode is slagging off Karl Dickson.

He's given a couple of home decisions at the breakdown, but Saints have been so slow and passive in that area it hardly matters.  What is he calling him for?

Cumbrian wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:On twitter, Andy Goode is slagging off Karl Dickson.

He's given a couple of home decisions at the breakdown, but Saints have been so slow and passive in that area it hardly matters.  What is he calling him for?

Being rubbish.

Saints just aren't stressing the Saracens line enough. They spend phase after phase not really making any ground. Gap is probably already insurmountable, but if they can't even get close the the Sarries' line it is over already.

Rugby Fan wrote:On twitter, Andy Goode is slagging off Karl Dickson.

I just don't understand what the authorities see in Karl Dickson, giving him a game like this. And he's going to be one of the 12 referees at the World Cup.

Mitchell deserved that. Probably the only real plus point of this side today.

Typical, left the room as soon as Saints do something decisive.

Ooooh! Finally, we've got a game!

Looked a slightly forward pass at the end there. But yes a game.

Farrell was nearly in the stand there, what was the linesman looking at?

That's close to a pen try surely.

Surely game over.

Aye, in truth Sarries bossed most of it. Saints just didn't have the cattle to win the gain line battle.

Just feel like that Saints pack lacks a little leadership and they really need to go and find a defensive coach. Looking at some of their players they surprise me in how little they want to grind it out for each other for large portions of the game.

Typed that before Healy said the same thing honest.

Cumbrian wrote:Farrell was nearly in the stand there, what was the linesman looking at?

The AR was Tempest.

Saints had a purple patch when their 6:2 bench came into play. Actually provided Mitchell and Fin Smith with some half decent ball and got some tries. Didn't last long enough though. I'm unsure what Dowson does as the forwards coach but it doesn't work, Ferguson the scrum coach has stolen a living for several years and I doubt they have a defence coach. That first half really did for Saints.

To be fair to Ferguson their front row stocks haven't been the best to work with recently. Painter really stalled then Alex Waller and Haywood haven't produced near their best for a long time. Matavesi has missed a lot of this season having looked much better in the 18 months prior as well.

Langdon and Davison are excellent signings that given. Iyogun should only get better as well once fit.

king_carlos wrote:To be fair to Ferguson their front row stocks haven't been the best to work with recently. Painter really stalled then Alex Waller and Haywood haven't produced near their best for a long time. Matavesi has missed a lot of this season having looked much better in the 18 months prior as well.

Langdon and Davison are excellent signings that given. Iyogun should only get better as well once fit.

Have they stalled or has the lack of quality coaching not helped bring them on. Paul Hill and Painter aren't bad tightheads, it's generally considered they both have bags of potential but neither has shown any real improvement on a number of years. Ioygen is another who looks like an impressive option in the loose but looks weak at scrum time. It's just my suspicion but if Painter makes considerable progress at Chiefs in a short space of time if might be a good indication.

Something is definitely wrong with the forwards coaching there, they have good players but seem less than the sum of their parts. Back on the other hand look more than the sum of their parts in attack.

doctor_grey wrote:p.s Saracens are spawn of the devil.  just sayin'  

Nothing has changed my mind in the last 10 hours.  

Except I see clearly what Saints need - which is exactly what was needed last year.  And the year before.  And.  And.  Methinks we still need a Boyd-ectomy!  

Thank goodness I played Rugby this afternoon and only had to endure the 1st half live.  After watching Saints tidal wave of merde I was hoping the other team would knock me silly enough to forget I ever watched.  They failed.  Miserably.  

Similar to Saints, we were down at the half, though only 5-12.  Very unlike Saints at halftime we all said variations of "that sh!t really s*cked".  In the 2nd half we went out and scored 5 tries, held them to one in garbaage time and ran out deserved winners 36-19.  We are also much better looking than them as well, Props notwithstanding.  And, in the interest of full disclosure, I only played the 2nd half....  

And, by the way and not for nuthin' that was a straight red if measured against reds given these days.  As Jaco Peyper had said so accurately:  “In the current climate..."  That's right boys, in the current climate that was a straighter red than lines of longitude.  Straighter than the line connecting Prince Harry from Westminster Abbey to Heathrow.   

Can't be changing the rules of the game at the end if it doesn't suit.  Change 'em absolutely in the off-season so we all understand the intent of the interpretations before the season starts, not some evolution at the tush-end of the season.

By the way, the Yanks don't want Harry and she-who-shall-not-be-named either.  

Grumble, grumble, curse, curse.  Etc.

Pollard out weighs this even more in Sales favour.

Has Henderson thrown a hand there?

Do sale separate the fans?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Has Henderson thrown a hand there?

Don't think so. Tom Curry should have been binned though. Picks up and then drops the player. Complete cheap shot.

Barnes being a bit lenient on supporting weight.

Can't say I saw too much of a right arm wrap from youngs there. Interpretation saved a red though.

Tense game, Sale may rue not taking their chances there. It is easy in hindsight, but I think they would have been better off banking the points. Saying that, I was slightly surprised that Barnes didn't warn Leicester, they committed a number of penalties close to their line.

Don't want to bang about it, but if they had taken the points they could be seven points ahead and putting Leicester on the edge...

No 7&1/2 wrote:Can't say I saw too much of a right arm wrap from youngs there. Interpretation saved a red though.

Left arm clearly wraps and there's no shoulder contact, his head hits the shoulder of du Preez. Barnes was correct with nothing doing. Was never going to be a red but there would have been the question of a pen try.

What a shame, that was a forward pass, it would have been a superb score.  They are really starting to look dangerous though.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Can't say I saw too much of a right arm wrap from youngs there. Interpretation saved a red though.

Left arm clearly wraps and there's no shoulder contact, his head hits the shoulder of du Preez. Barnes was correct with nothing doing. Was never going to be a red but there would have been the question of a pen try.

I agree in part. Left arm wraps. Bit like I said didn't see any wrap from the right. And I see head on head. So very much in red card territory.

Cumbrian wrote:What a shame, that was a forward pass, it would have been a superb score.  They are really starting to look dangerous though.

Quirke is bloody quick.

I know that Steward gets the plaudits, but I reckon Carpenter has more than matched him in this game, he has been superb under the high ball.